Radical Candor: Communication at Work
Episode 7 | 15: How NDAs Protect Power Instead of People
Hosts: Kim Scott, Jason Rosoff, Amy Sandler
Date: April 9, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode of the Radical Candor podcast explores how non-disclosure agreements (NDAs), non-disparagement clauses, and forced arbitration are being used in the workplace less to protect legitimate business secrets and more to shield organizational misconduct, silence whistleblowers, and perpetuate institutional betrayal. Triggered by Meta’s legal action against Sarah Wynn Williams, author of Careless People, the hosts tackle how these legal tools reinforce power imbalances, stifle employee voices, and ultimately damage individuals, teams, and society at large.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Meta Case, Careless People, and the Silencing of Whistleblowers
[01:09-04:15]
- Book Highlight: Careless People by Sarah Wynn Williams exposes misconduct at Meta (formerly Facebook).
- Meta used a legal arbitration case (enforced by an NDA) that prohibits Williams from discussing or promoting her book, thus impeding its sales and public impact.
“By silencing the author of this book...she’s making it really difficult for her to sell the book. …The strategy seems to have backfired and now everybody’s buying the book.”
— Kim Scott [03:23]
- Streisand effect—Legal efforts to suppress the book have amplified its reach.
2. NDAs and Arbitration: Intended Purpose vs. Actual Use
[04:15-07:19]
- Originally, NDAs were designed to protect technical and trade secrets, not to cover up serious wrongdoing or prevent transparency.
- Arbitration—while pitched as a more accessible legal route for employees—frequently favors employers due to systemic power imbalances.
- Forced arbitration can prevent harm from coming to light and blocks employees from accessing public legal remedies.
“The thing about arbitration is that it really tends to favor employers over employees. …They try to be neutral, but they’re not.”
— Kim Scott [05:32]
3. Emotional Targeting and Systemic Harm Inside Tech
[07:19-13:36]
- Careless People reveals Facebook targeted vulnerable teens with ads during states of psychological distress, and the company tracked activity like deleting selfies to serve beauty ads at sensitive moments.
- The hosts express outrage at targeting young people during vulnerable moments and expand the concern to all users.
“As a parent, I have to say this fills me with rage…that advertisers would agree to do it.”
— Kim Scott [07:19]
“We’ve already dealing…in a consumer society. But then to have it targeted at your most vulnerable is infuriating and enraging.”
— Amy Sandler [08:12]
- This predatory strategy is systemic, not the product of isolated bad actors.
4. The Culture of Silence, Complicity, and Institutional Betrayal
[13:36-17:42]
- Employees faced dilemmas about whether it was safe to object to questionable practices.
- Meta (then Facebook) fired a junior researcher instead of addressing the system; the company’s leadership used PR to deflect blame and denied the existence of these targeting tools.
“We’re gonna find one person who did this, even though we know this is a systemic thing and blame that one person.”
— Kim Scott [13:36]
- The leadership culture discouraged open dissent and normalized silence or rationalization.
“The temptation to basically like squash disagreements... in order to preserve harmony. …We only want to talk about the good that this thing can do.”
— Jason Rosoff [22:18]
5. Personal Reflection: When Leaders Succumb to Power
[24:29-31:50]
- Kim Scott candidly acknowledges a moment as a CEO when she required an employee to sign an NDA after a claim of a hostile work environment—a decision she now regrets as an abdication of courage and accountability.
“Power corrupts. Power had corrupted me...we were all doing the wrong thing.”
— Kim Scott [29:12]
- She underscores that leadership is about welcoming checks and balances, not silencing dissent for the sake of personal comfort or image.
6. NDAs as Tools for Perpetuating Harm
[31:50-35:23]
- NDAs can be (and are) misused to buy silence from victims and enable repeat offenders—not just in tech, but across industries.
- Even if legal, the ethical use of NDAs should be questioned—especially when they impede reporting or correcting harm.
“Any time we’re leaning on the law to take away someone’s right to ameliorate harm...it just—that doesn’t mean it’s right.”
— Jason Rosoff [32:55]
7. The Path Forward: Checks, Transparency, and New Legislation
[35:23-39:31]
- Organizations need explicit systemic checks and balances—mechanisms for employees to safely escalate complaints, involvement of boards and employee representatives.
- Legal changes such as California’s “Silence No More Act” are intended to limit NDAs used to cover up illegal or harmful acts; a national version is being considered.
“I really think that one of the design principles of our country is checks and balances. And I think that's important not only in a political system, but also in a corporate environment.”
— Kim Scott [36:45]
- The current legal and cultural landscape is shifting toward greater transparency and whistleblower protections, but much remains to be done.
“There’s increasingly...an acknowledgement that NDAs are used to cover up crimes and that that's not acceptable.”
— Kim Scott [37:24]
8. Removing Obstacles and Building Just Workplaces
[39:31-41:17]
- Companies should proactively remove communication barriers, create multiple safe reporting channels, and view correction and accountability as foundational to efficiency and good culture.
“If you can actually do it, it’s a far more efficient system than the one that we have now, which is only reacting after the harm has already been done…”
— Jason Rosoff [39:33]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “NDAs should protect business secrets, not shield bad actors from accountability.” — Kim Scott [42:17]
- “[There was] a culture of institutional betrayal, not institutional courage.” — Kim Scott [18:34]
- “Capitalism is really good at rewarding what it can measure and very bad at rewarding what it values." — Kim Scott [19:44]
- “Just because it’s possible doesn’t make it right.” — Kim Scott [33:14]
Practical Takeaways & Checklist
[42:17-43:42]
-
End the use of NDAs for covering up wrongdoing.
- NDAs should never be used to hide illegal or unethical activity.
-
Eliminate forced arbitration.
- Ensure employees have access to fair, open legal processes.
-
Build a culture of transparency and accountability.
- Create and actively support systems for safe reporting, accountability, and real checks/balances on leadership power.
-
Support systemic change.
- Buy and share books like Careless People to raise awareness; lobby policymakers to limit the abusive use of NDAs and forced arbitration.
Resource Mentions
- Careless People by Sarah Wynn Williams
- Radical Respect by Kim Scott (Chapter 7 relevant to NDAs & forced arbitration)
- Books on workplace silence: She Said, Catch and Kill, Whistleblower
- Institution Courage (Jennifer Freyd's organization and work)
- The “Silence No More Act” (California, pending national legislation)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [01:09] - Introduction to topic & Careless People
- [04:15] - NDAs and arbitration explained and critiqued
- [07:19] - Examples from Careless People: Emotional targeting at Meta
- [13:36] - Culture of silence and blaming the individual
- [24:29] - Kim's personal experience and regret regarding NDAs
- [36:45] - Checks, balances, and employee board representation
- [42:17] - Episode checklist and actionable steps
Tone & Style
The hosts maintain a candid, conversational, and empathic tone, sharing personal regrets, outrage, and hope for cultural and legal reform. The discussion is rich with practical wisdom, compassionate vulnerability, and a sense of urgency about the stakes of silencing wrongdoing in the workplace.
For Further Action
- Read and share Careless People by Sarah Wynn Williams
- Examine your company's use of NDAs and arbitration clauses
- Advocate for whistleblower protections and robust reporting systems
- Support reforms like the Silence No More Act, both locally and nationally
For more details, episode notes, or feedback, visit:
https://radicalcandor.com/podcast