Radical Candor: Communication at Work
Episode: How Tech Employees Can Organize for Change (with Lisa Conn & Anne Wootton)
Date: March 18, 2026
Host: Kim Scott
Guests: Lisa Conn (Founder, Gather Round; former Meta employee), Anne Wootton (Founder, Pop Up Archive)

Episode Overview

In this special episode, Kim Scott explores how tech employees can organize for social change within their companies, focusing on the “ICE Out Tech” movement led by Lisa Conn and Anne Wootton. The discussion centers on tech's moral responsibilities, building solidarity among employees, effective activism tactics, and the challenges—and courage—of speaking out at work. The podcast aims to empower listeners to Care Personally and Challenge Directly, offering actionable advice for professionals at all levels who want to align their work with their values without losing their humanity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to ICE Out Tech and Its Goals

[00:52–03:22]

• Kim introduces Lisa and Anne, outlining their leadership of ICE Out Tech—a movement where tech employees pledge to oppose the actions of ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) in U.S. cities.
• Lisa explains: ICE Out Tech's three demands for tech CEOs:
  1. Call the White House and demand ICE leave the cities.
  2. Cancel company contracts with ICE.
  3. Speak out publicly against ICE’s violence.
• The movement reflects widespread agreement within tech, contrary to public perceptions anchored by high-profile figures like Elon Musk or Peter Thiel.

Quote – Lisa Conn (02:00):
“It’s a pledge that folks throughout the tech industry are signing... We are condemning the actions that ICE is taking in our cities.”

2. Personal Motivations and the Power of Solidarity

[03:22–04:40]

• Anne shares: Over 1,600 people across major tech companies have signed the pledge, describing the challenge of feeling isolated from the reality faced by many.
• Both guests stress the need for tech employees to take action, even in small ways, to connect more viscerally to national issues.

Quote – Anne Wootton (03:47):
“It was a really odd sensation to feel so... insulated and protected from so much of the reality... These tech-focused actions feel like one small way that I can try to contribute.”

3. What Can Employees Do When Their Company’s Values Don’t Align?

[04:40–06:45]

• Kim poses the central question: What can you do if you feel your company or leaders aren’t doing the right thing?
• Lisa frames three levels of possible misalignment:
  1. The company’s actions.
  2. Leadership’s (CEO's) actions.
  3. The individual’s own work.
• Cites Google’s Project Maven as an example where employee pressure changed company direction.

Quote – Lisa Conn (05:57):
“If all three of those things are misaligned, that’s one thing. But if two are misaligned, one isn’t... Each of the situations are a little bit different.”

4. Speaking Out: Bravery, Risk, and Privilege

[06:45–11:13]

• Anne references: Kim’s op-ed noting that it shouldn’t require bravery to speak out in a democracy.
• Kim reflects on how personal affluence and career stage influence one’s ability and willingness to take risks, acknowledging that not everyone has the same safety or options.

Quote – Kim Scott (09:26):
“As I was writing Radical Respect... I realized that affluence and courage are negatively correlated... At some point, enough has got to be enough.”

5. Why Don’t Tech CEOs Speak Out More?

[11:13–13:55]

• Lisa wonders why affluent CEOs often display little courage on controversial issues.
• Kim, referencing her respect for leaders like Tim Cook and Sundar Pichai, insists the lack of public action is ominous—but also admits complex pressures on leaders.

Quote – Kim Scott (11:33):
“It’s puzzling to me... We’ve got to sort of lead by example, even if we’re not in charge.”

6. Individual Circumstances, Fear, and Isolation

[13:55–15:20]

• Anne points out the diversity of employee situations: visa holders, those fearing retaliation, and those simply feeling isolated.
• The hosts agree that fighting workplace powerlessness and connecting with others is a strong antidote to helplessness.

Quote – Anne Wootton (13:55):
“For me, that feeling of helplessness and isolation is a pretty strong motivator... to take a small step.”

7. Practical Strategies for Organizing and Effecting Change

Building Solidarity (15:20–16:27)

• Kim’s tactical advice: Build solidarity—don’t go it alone, find your people, join or start local groups.
• “Mutual visibility”—discussed as recognizing shared beliefs that often feel isolated.

Know Your Exit Options (16:28–22:02)

• Assess your career mobility before speaking out; feeling you could leave increases your sense of agency.
• Example: Project Maven (Google employees ended a controversial military contract), the Muslim Ban (2017), National Guard in SF (2025).

Tactics for Internal Advocacy (21:15–32:22)

• Lisa offers a roadmap for effecting change internally (see detailed bullet list below).

Quote – Lisa Conn (21:00):
“I think words like organize and power sometimes freak people out, but... people need to band together and make their voice heard.”

Specific strategies include:

• Know and share your personal story (Marshall Ganz's “Story of Self” framework).
• Initiate one-on-one conversations with like-minded colleagues.
• Organize internal meetups.
• Ask tough questions in company forums (town halls, Slack, private meetings).
• Consider non-public advocacy for those who cannot safely speak out externally.

8. Beyond Boycotts: Daily Choices and Activism

[25:11–28:11]

• Hosts debate the efficacy of consumer boycotts (canceling subscriptions, not using Amazon), ultimately supporting diversified tactics but agreeing that collective action inside companies is more powerful.
• Kim and Anne share how moving off Amazon and Audible has made their shopping more rewarding and connected them with small businesses.

Quote – Lisa Conn (25:40):
“It reminds me a little bit of people who take three-minute showers to use less water... At least in California, it feels a little hard to imagine large enough impact that CEOs actually feel the pain.”

9. The Power and Limits of Conversation Across Differences

[32:22–39:23]

• Kim emphasizes the importance of being able to disagree respectfully with colleagues and loved ones.
• Avoid “self-righteous shaming”; proactively engage with “not your people.”
• Anne references Bad Bunny’s Grammy speech on choosing love over hate.
• Lisa distinguishes between “issue polarization” (strong beliefs) and “affective polarization” (demonizing those with opposing views).
• Kim’s story about speaking at a group holding opposing political views: recognizing shared humanity by engaging face-to-face.

Quote – Lisa Conn (35:14):
“We can be polarized on issues without being effectively polarized. It’s the affective polarization that really tears us apart.”

Quote – Kim Scott (37:05):
“They believe a lot of things that I disagree with... But I realized I had this affective sort of disrespect. I just took a deep breath... I like these people. I may not agree with them, but I like them.”

10. Final Advice and Resources

[39:23–40:24]

• Kim’s closing advice: Take care of yourself and find community.
• Reminder to visit ICEOutTech.org to learn more or sign the pledge (anonymously, if necessary).
• Encouragement to keep the conversation going and find ways to stay replenished.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “We are condemning the actions that ICE is taking in our cities.” – Lisa Conn [02:00]
• “It shouldn’t be seen as brave to speak out in a country ostensibly that’s a democracy with free speech...” – Anne Wootton [06:45]
• “Enough has got to be enough... how much better can I eat?” – Kim Scott [09:26]
• “I don’t think extremism when it comes to how you feel about something… is necessarily a bad thing. But when it results in us hating people who disagree with us, that’s where it becomes impossible to collaborate.” – Lisa Conn [35:14]
• “Most of us are really not [evil]. Most of us are really good human beings.” – Kim Scott [38:56]
• “Find your people, but also talk to your not people or whatever. Talk to people who disagree with you.” – Kim Scott [34:44]
• “You’re not going to do your best work if you feel trapped.” – Kim Scott [21:37]

Practical Takeaways for Tech Employees

1. Build Solidarity:
   Find others who share your concerns; connect via pledges, forums, or local meetups. [15:20, 28:41]

2. Know Your Exit Options:
   Assess your mobility and agency—knowing you could leave reduces the sense of being trapped. [16:28, 21:37]

3. Engage Internally:

   • Share your personal story ("story of self"). [29:48]
   • Organize conversations and meetups.
   • Strategically ask tough questions inside the company.
   • Avoid public risk if unsafe; internal influence can still be huge.

4. Choose Multiple Tactics:
   Direct consumer action has some value, but internal organizing is more impactful. [25:40]

5. Practice Respectful Dissent:
   Engaging with people who disagree is critical for deepening your thinking and preventing polarization. [32:22–39:23]

6. Be Compassionate:
   Recognize everyone’s unique situation; not everyone has equal freedom or security to act. [09:10, 13:55]

Further Resources & Calls to Action

• ICE Out Tech Pledge: Sign publicly or anonymously at ICEOutTech.org. [25:10, 40:24]
• Relevant Readings:
  • Kim Scott’s “Radical Respect” and “Radical Candor”
  • Cory Doctorow’s “Inchitification” [22:06]
• Community: Reach out with thoughts and join conversations at podcastradicalcandor.com. [40:24]

This episode is rich with stories, practical frameworks, and empathetic guidance for any tech employee seeking to align their values with their work—without sacrificing their career or compassion.