What It Takes to Grow: Radical Candor Meets Hollywood with Adam Richman 7 | 38

Summary

Radical Candor Goes to Hollywood: Lessons from Adam Richman and the Film Grow

Podcast: Radical Candor: Communication at Work
Hosts: Kim Scott, Amy Sandler & Jason Rosoff
Guest: Adam Richman (Co-Founder, Double Nickel Entertainment)
Episode Date: October 8, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the application of Radical Candor—“Care Personally, Challenge Directly”—in the fast-paced, deeply collaborative, and often hierarchical world of film and television production. Special guest Adam Richman, an accomplished producer and co-founder of Double Nickel Entertainment, joins Kim and Amy to discuss leadership and feedback on creative teams, integrating business with artistry, and the heartwarming inspirations behind his latest film, Grow. Through humor, candid reflection, and industry anecdotes, the conversation reflects on building trust, setting effective constraints, giving clear feedback, and fostering environments where creativity and humanity flourish together.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Radical Candor & Creative Management (04:22–09:35)

• Hiring & Environment: Adam stresses that successful creative environments start with hiring the right people, not micromanaging, but also not being absentee.
  • “The most important thing in creating a creative work environment that's successful is hiring the right people… next it's about not micromanaging… give them a real sense of ownership.” – Adam Richman (04:22)
• Partnership Over Hierarchy: Being a creative partner instead of a traditional manager is vital.
  • “You want to be a partner. Exactly. And there's a really big difference in that.” – Adam Richman (06:15)
• Encouraging Risk & Failure: Creative teams should be encouraged to “take big swings,” and be allowed to fail, as this fosters true innovation.
• The Power of Constraints: Creativity, Adam asserts, flourishes not with endless possibilities but within thoughtful boundaries—which focuses experimentation and prevents creative floundering.

2. The Role of Clear Feedback (06:58–13:24)

• Candor as an "Act of Love": Giving direct feedback about what isn't working is necessary for progress, even if it’s hard to hear.
  • “Without the ability to have those discussions, to have the discussions where you're giving candid feedback, there's no point…” – Adam Richman (07:30)
• Be Specific: Vague feedback (“needs more heart”) is unhelpful—being clear and specific enables actionable change.
  • “Let's be really specific so that we actually can make change.” – Adam Richman (13:24)

3. Using Constraints to Drive Innovation (09:35–12:22)

• Grow's Constraints Example: Adam shares how set designer Jamie Lapsley created magic on the Grow set within tight budget limitations, underlining how constraints can draw out the best in creative collaborators.
  • “Jamie is a master at that...within what you have, create magic.” – Adam Richman (10:17)
• Saying "No" is Necessary: The group debates how to “eliminate” ideas without demoralization—highlighting the essential but tough process of narrowing options to achieve greatness.

4. The Tension: Power Structures Versus Creative Freedom (15:09–18:13)

• Flattening Hierarchies: Adam candidly discusses the entrenched, sometimes off-putting hierarchies in Hollywood (like the “Video Village” tradition) and his efforts to make everyone feel welcome and valued:
  • “I just hate it...Everyone is welcome at Video Village, there are no chairs with people's names on them.” – Adam Richman (17:19)
• Role ≠ Value Judgment: Roles are necessary but should not be treated as indicators of worth.

5. Navigating Ego, Insecurity, and the Need for Kindness (19:33–23:58)

• Hollywood's Paradox: Kim observes Hollywood as surprisingly hierarchical. Adam explains insecurity often drives this—those most secure focus on the work, not on ego.
  • “The ones that are super successful...they're secure in who they are...it's about the work.” – Adam Richman (21:13)
• Kindness as the Starting Point: Adam underlines that mentorship and feedback should always begin with kindness.
  • “It all starts with kindness…if that's the foot you lead with...it's going to be good.” – Adam Richman (22:34)
• Current Trends: Kim worries command-and-control methods are resurging in leadership, despite long-term downsides.

6. Setting the Table: Culture by Intention (25:43–29:32)

• Intentional Onboarding/Culture: Adam details how setting cultural expectations from the start pays dividends. He praises Grow’s director, John McPhail, for daily, direct expressions of gratitude to every team member—modeling a radically respectful environment.
  • “At the end of every day [he] goes around and thanks every single person working that day…and gives a safe hug to every single person. That creates an environment where everyone feels valued.” – Adam Richman (26:29)
• Applicability to Corporate Settings: These practices cost nothing but make a huge difference in engagement and morale.

7. The Movie-Making Process & Radical Candor at Each Step (29:41–41:26)

• Development to Post-Production: Adam breaks down the phases—development, preproduction, production, postproduction—emphasizing that relationships and clarity must be reestablished at every stage, not just the start.
  • “You still want that [table setting]. Because for you to be the most effective team member…you want to understand what the culture is…” – Adam Richman (43:07)
• Giving and Receiving Critical Feedback: The show dives into real examples—giving notes to writers, defending essential scenes (like the humorous lion-poo gag in Grow), and balancing creative vision with business realities.

8. Radical Candor in Collaboration (44:30–45:51)

• Ongoing, Two-Way Dialogue: When things go awry or aren’t understood, prompt, open communication trumps frustration or storytelling.
  • “Radical candor is never a one way street. It's like a lot of little back and forths…pick up the phone and call before you get angry.” – Kim Scott (44:30)

9. Bringing Joy and Positivity Through Storytelling (45:51–53:15)

• The “Why” of Grow: Adam discusses making Grow as an intentional act to bring joy and positivity to audiences, especially in hard times.
  • “Now more than ever, [entertainment] needs to uplift and give people a distraction. It needs to transport them into something that might feel a little bit better.” – Adam Richman (46:16)
• Art as Imagination for a Better World: Kim notes the importance of stories that allow us to imagine and build positive futures.

10. Personal Inspiration and Uplift (47:17–49:48)

• Family Inspiration: Adam’s own childhood—selling pumpkins to support local arts—echoes the heart of Grow. The film celebrates different family models, community, and hope.
  • “There's so many themes in Grow that really, really spoke to us…and the movie, at the end of the day, just really gives a tremendous amount of joy.” – Adam Richman (47:17)
• Shift Toward Uplift: Double Nickel is now focused on empowering, uplifting stories—future projects are described as “triumphant David and Goliath stories.”

11. The Power of Music and Joy (Grow the Song) (49:48–53:00)

• KT Tunstall’s Earworm: The theme song Grow became a centerpiece, encapsulating the joyful spirit of the film. Relationships and creative synergy helped secure KT Tunstall to perform it, and it is poised for global release.
  • “It happened because of relationships…but it wouldn't have happened if the song wasn't great. And frankly, if the movie [wasn’t].” – Adam Richman (51:18)
• Art for Families: Grow is Double Nickel’s first family film, driven by the desire to make something Adam’s kids and all young people could enjoy and draw hope from.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Creative Feedback:
  “It's a total act of love. And without the ability to have those discussions…there's no point.”
  – Adam Richman (07:30)
• On Constraints:
  “Creativity thrives when there are clear boundaries to experiment within. It flounders when there are none…”
  – Adam Richman (06:15)
• On Power in Hollywood:
  “The most hierarchical place I ever have been in my whole life was Hollywood…”
  – Kim Scott (19:19)
• On Mentorship & Kindness:
  “Mentorship is so important…It all starts with kindness.”
  – Adam Richman (22:34)
• On Setting the Table:
  “[Our director]…goes around and thanks every single person working that day…That creates an environment where everyone feels valued.”
  – Adam Richman (26:29)
• On Art’s Purpose:
  “If you’re navigating hard times, you need to have an imagination of what could go well…that is the purpose of art at some level.”
  – Kim Scott (46:45)
• On Letting Go in the Creative Process:
  “It’s about getting up to bat…You want to keep making. So part of that is letting things go. But you also need to know when to fight for things…”
  – Adam Richman (37:10)
• On Radical Candor’s Universality:
  “This structure really applies to every part of your life.”
  – Adam Richman (45:19)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:22 – Radical Candor & Creative Management
• 06:58 – Candor as an Act of Love
• 09:35 – Constraints Fueling Creativity (Grow set example)
• 15:09 – Hierarchy in Hollywood & Flattening It
• 19:33 – Ego, Insecurity, and Kindness
• 25:43 – Intentionally Creating Culture (“Setting the Table”)
• 29:41 – The Filmmaking Process & Feedback at Every Stage
• 44:30 – Radical Candor in Ongoing Collaboration
• 45:51 – Uplift, Joy, and Why Grow Matters
• 49:48 – Film’s Personal Roots & Uplift
• 51:18 – Creating the Song “Grow” with KT Tunstall

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Episode Takeaways

• Radical Candor is essential for creative environments where trust, effective feedback, and joy unlock the best results.
• Even in high-pressure, hierarchical systems like film production, intentional culture setting and direct, caring feedback transform outcomes.
• Constraints—of time, budget, or resources—boost creative innovation, not hinder it.
• Kindness, respect, and visible gratitude are often-overlooked ingredients for leading teams, fostering both efficiency and humanity.
• Art, especially in challenging times, lifts spirits, inspires hope, and provides a blueprint for a better future.

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For More:

• See Grow in theaters (growthefilm.com; @growthefilm)
• Read Radical Candor by Kim Scott
• Join the Radical Candor community for resources and conversation

Transcript

[Adam Richman]

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[Kim Scott]

Hello everybody and welcome to the Radical Canner Podcast. I'm Kim Scott.

[Amy Sandler]

I'm Amy Sandler. I am so excited to welcome today Adam Richman to the podcast. Adam is the co founder and principal of Double Nickel Entertainment, which is the production company behind films such as Gran Torino and the Burial and, and what is sure to be a fall classic. Grow Grow is coming is coming out. We're already singing the theme song. We can't stop ourselves. Adam has a career spanning film, television, games and media and has really built a reputation for bringing bold, character driven stories to life. Also successfully building and scaling large dynamic teams and product. He is an entrepreneur, he's a producer, a creative leader who really thrives at the intersection of business and art. And along the way, Adam has learned quite a bit about practicing radical candor in the unique high pressure world of film production. I have to say I am smiling quite a bit because Adam is also a very good friend to both me and Kim. In fact, I think it is safe to say that this very podcast would not be happening without you, Adam, because that is true. Yes, you are the link between me and Kim because we each knew you, sadly, separately, while we were at business school. And then you introduced me to Kim. So heartfelt. Welcome, Adam Richman.

[Kim Scott]

Welcome, Adam.

[Adam Richman]

Thank you, thank you. I have to say it's, it's, it's a. You, you two are the best Shaddock, I think, ever.

[Amy Sandler]

Can you translate that?

[Adam Richman]

That is in Yiddish. That's, you know, the best union, the best marriage. You two are meant to be and it's great. Thank you for having me. Kim and Amy, it's great to be here with you as someone who's known you both for so long and so well. I am really just so proud of all the amazing, radical work you two have been doing on this podcast and throughout the Candor universe. Really making the business world a better place to live. So thank you.

[Kim Scott]

Thank you, Adam. Adam, you are always a person. You're very good at showing that you care. Personally, I love that about you. So thank you for being here.

[Adam Richman]

You are too, Kim and Amy. You too. I think that's what also Connect is a big connection between the three of us.

[Kim Scott]

Yes.

[Amy Sandler]

Well, to broaden the conversation out to our listeners beyond the three of us.

[Kim Scott]

Love us, Love us.

[Amy Sandler]

Let's bring you into this circle of caring personally and also challenging directly. And one of the things we're going to get into, Adam, the specifics of this new film Grow, which we're so excited to learn more about, but wanted you to really kick the conversation off because I think you have a really unique perspective on the intersection of Radical Candor and creative management. Just the creative process overall. We were kind of joking at the top that we were some of the few liberal arts majors at business school, but you have made this to be like a superpower in the business world. So tell us more about your own perspective. Radical Candor, Creative Management.

[Adam Richman]

So I remember when we were all in school, were you guys with me and Teresa Amabile's creativity course, Manage Managing Creativity? Were either of you in that course with me?

[Amy Sandler]

No, I took it, but I don't think with you. I just remember the phrase creative destruction.

[Adam Richman]

Yeah, it was such a great course, and it was about what it takes to set up a work environment where creativity and creatives can thrive. For me, it was kind of a transformative course in terms of my thinking in my career, because it made me think, wow, there's actually an application and ideas that you can apply to creative management that will make it flourish. And to talk about that for a few minutes and then the intersection with Radical Candor, which I think makes creative environments flourish in a way that is really important. The most important thing in creating a creative work environment that's successful is hiring the right people. That's the first step to make sure that you're creating the right environment. You know, it's like a marriage. If you don't choose the right partner from the start, it's going to be so much harder. And I think next it's about not micromanaging those people, setting up an environment for those colleagues where they feel real ownership over their scope of work, which then will give them a real sense of ownership in the project that you're working on as a whole.

[Kim Scott]

Sorry, I'm going to interrupt you because. Not you're. Thank you for the invitation. That's how Adam shows care personally. That's how I show. I'm interested as I interrupt you. But I think you don't want to micromanage them, but I think you also don't want to ignore them. And I think that's a mistake that a lot of managers make is. I mean, I'm just gonna hire the right people and never spend another minute with them. And that's like not a recipe for.

[Adam Richman]

And that's not what I'm suggesting. I mean, I think.

[Kim Scott]

No, I know.

[Adam Richman]

I think what I'm suggesting is, you know, you absolutely want to manage them, but you don't want to micromanage them. And you want to also collaborate with them. And I think that.

[Kim Scott]

Yeah, you don't want to manage them. You want to be a partner with them.

[Adam Richman]

You want to be a partner. Exactly. And there's a really big difference in that. And it's an important distinction. So thanks for bringing that up. I think it's really about encouraging each member of your team to take big swings. You want your team to have failures. You want to be in a culture where they can fail, especially in a creative environment, because that also means they're having some out of the park successes too. And, you know, of course, that is assisted in creativity in general in the workplace is assisted by putting constraints around creativity. Creating. Creativity thrives when there are clear boundaries to experiment within. It flounders when there are none and the sky is the limit. Creativity does not function well in an environment like that.

[Kim Scott]

And I think one of the constraints has got to be, we've got to admit, when something's not working right? And I think that's part of the radical canner and the creative process. And it's tempting to think that you're raining on someone's creative parade to say, you know, that's not working, or somebody's trying to be funny. Say, maybe it's funny to someone else, but I don't think that's funny. Like, and. But it's hard to do that. Like, it's very discouraging when you've written a joke for someone to tell you it's not funny, and yet it's an act of love. So say more about that.

[Adam Richman]

Well, I think it's a total. I think you've described it accurately. I think it's a total act of love. And without the ability to have those discussions, to have the discussions where you're. You're giving candid feedback, there's no point like the environment can't flourish. And I think that's really where radical candor intersects beautifully with the creative environment. Because intrinsically, the environment, I think to foster creativity, people have to, at the very, very base, foundational level, care about each other, and they have to care about the product, genuinely care about each other, genuinely care about the product. So they feel they can experiment, they feel they can fail, and then also wildly succeed. But a huge part of that is what you're talking about, Kim, which is knowing that there'll be genuine candor in the feedback. And it's possible because you created an environment where you feel safe, you feel like everyone really cares about each other. So you feel like you can give genuine feedback, you feel like you can fail, which then ultimately allows you to succeed.

[Kim Scott]

Yeah.

[Amy Sandler]

I'm curious, like, as you're talking about this frame, just to sort of make sure that I'm summarizing it accurately, you talked about, like, hiring great people. Kim obviously talks a lot about that. In the book Radical Candor, we focus on that. Not micromanaging, but also not being an absentee manager, being what we might call, in radical candor, a thought partner. But maybe, and this is like a creative partner as well. And then the idea of. Of innovation with these big swings, but also having the constraints. And in fact, I have found, just for myself as an. As an individual creative person and also collaborating, that it is very often those constraints that cultivate innovation. And I'm curious, like, do you have an example that pops to mind of, like, when it was either a time constraint or a resource constraint or somebody broke their foot and now we have to get a, you know, another actor on. Do you have any stories of when the constraint actually got you to an even better creative outcome?

[Adam Richman]

I have a great example, and it's actually an example from Grow. When you all see the movie, you will see we have just the most phenomenal production design in Grow. An amazingly talented woman named Jamie Lapsley designed Grow for us. And the movie, just so everyone knows, is about a young girl who essentially is a pumpkin growing savant. So, Kim, you're gonna love this movie for many reasons, but a huge reason is that there's a lot of giant orange pumpkin.

[Amy Sandler]

I was gonna say there's orange everywhere.

[Adam Richman]

We can' throughout this movie. So I'm just really excited for you, Kim, because, you know, it's gonna be really good for you.

[Kim Scott]

My movie. It's a movie.

[Adam Richman]

It's a movie.

[Amy Sandler]

We might get a new sweatshirt for Kim.

[Adam Richman]

So. So, you know, we originally had a different designer on the movie, but that designer was talking about a production budget for production design that was just so way out of whack with what we could afford, and just sort of the way we were putting together the movie. And one of the other producers on the film, we shot the film in Scotland, and one of the. My partners, Wendy Griffin, the amazing Wendy Griffin, had this idea to bring Jamie onto the show. Jamie. When I think about putting constraints around creativity and then making creativity flourish within those constraints, Jamie is a master at that. She's just amazing because she will work with what you have and then figure out how to, within what you have, create magic. And I think, you know, when you. When you don't have clear, definitive lines, you don't really. You don't really know where to start, and you don't know where to end. And I think when you're dealing with creative people, creative projects, you want them to know where the starting line is, where the finish line is, because otherwise you can't really get a lot of stuff done.

[Kim Scott]

I think if there's no constraints, then there's the process of saying, this idea doesn't work for this, or this idea is too expensive for this or whatever. The process of saying no to things is really important to the creative process, but it's discouraging to say no to things. It's discouraging to kill ideas. And. And yet, in order to come up with something great, you've got to kill a lot of ideas. And that's part of the reason why.

[Amy Sandler]

Kim, can I do the purple flag on the aggressive language? You know, you didn't want to, like, be. It's like, what's a. What's a. Not as violent than kill.

[Kim Scott]

Kill.

[Amy Sandler]

Well, remember, you wanted to get away from violent language.

[Kim Scott]

I know.

[Amy Sandler]

You wanted to kill the violent language.

[Kim Scott]

I don't. Yes. I don't know. You're right about the purple flag. I don't have an answer, but I think you've got to eliminate certain ideas. You've got to execute them. You got to squash them like a bug. Let's just double down on the violent language today.

[Adam Richman]

Oh, my gosh.

[Kim Scott]

I don't know. I don't know how to say it.

[Amy Sandler]

Adam, can I build on what Kim is saying? Because what was coming up for me, Adam, was when I was in film school lo those many years ago. And one of the things we would talk about, and this is where I think radical cand really comes in about being clear and being specific. So I think one of the things you described with Jamie, your designer, was, like, in these clear constraints, like, it was, like, very clear either about, here's what the budget is, here's what the time is, here's, you know, sort of the end state, but in between all of that, get us wherever you want to go. So there's something about the clarity which I think is so, you know, intrinsic to radical candor. The other thing is that was coming up was we had this joke at film school that you'd write a script and you give it to an executive, and it'd be like, love it, but it needs more heart, you know, so.

[Kim Scott]

Like, how do you, like.

[Amy Sandler]

How do you, like, give it more heart? Like, do you like heart on it? Like, so there's sort of this very vague, like, just needs more heart.

[Adam Richman]

Yeah.

[Amy Sandler]

Does that spark anything for you of, like, what good feedback?

[Adam Richman]

Well, first of all, I find that, like, yes, it sparks a lot of things. I mean, and sort of it sparks that some people in creative industry have a real tendency to speak very generally about, like, this isn't working. This character isn't getting to where he or she needs to be, or, this isn't funny enough. It's like, what isn't funny? What isn't working? Let's be really specific so that we actually can make change. And I think the other thing, just back to Kim's point for a second about also saying when things aren't working. I think there's also a way to say something isn't working with the parameters that we have. So here are the parameters that we have, and how do we take this idea and make it within. Make it work within those parameters. Right. You know, and I think, like, Jamie was a great example of that to say, you know, we need these giant pumpkins, and we only have X amount of money and X amount of time to put them together, and these things actually don't exist. And I think, you know, for me, one of the.

[Amy Sandler]

How did she make the giant pump?

[Kim Scott]

Now I'm so curious, like, well, you know, so fast.

[Adam Richman]

They do grow.

[Amy Sandler]

Sorry, that's the song.

[Kim Scott]

I can't especially. And so I have a neighbor. Sorry, now I'm going down a distraction. But it's a good story.

[Amy Sandler]

Down a pumpkin patch.

[Kim Scott]

I have. I have a neighbor who grows Giant pumpkins. He starts growing them in the summer.

[Adam Richman]

I mean, where you live now? A neighbor now.

[Kim Scott]

A neighbor now in Los Altos, California. And he will lie on his garden chair and watch the pumpkin grow. It grows that fast. Like, these things are 5ft tall, 6ft feet. So they're huge pumpkins. Yeah. So I'm all.

[Adam Richman]

So you've got it. You've got to take them to the movie.

[Kim Scott]

Yes. Believe me, my neighbor is all about this movie. I have another question about Radical Caner and the creative process, because you went back to that class, and I think there's a reason why I didn't take that class. The reason I didn't take that class is that there was something to me at the time that felt oxymoronic about managing creativity. Like, there's something I think in my soul that feels like power is going to destroy creativity, hierarchy is going to destroy creativity, and yet you can't. You need a little bit of organization in order to build something together. Like, if we're going to collaborate on a creative project, you know, there need to be roles, There probably need to be directors, managers. But you need to figure out how to lay that power down in order for the power not to destroy the creativity of the people on your team. Do you have thoughts on that?

[Adam Richman]

Yeah, I mean, I completely agree. And I think one of the things that I try to do when we're making a movie is, you know, there's definitely a lot of hierarchy in film production. So, you know, and I often try to destroy that because I think that it alienates people. It doesn't create the culture you want of collaboration, of caring, of candor. You know, it's sort of the nemesis of that. And, you know, I'll give a really specific example, which is kind of funny. But, you know, if you come to a movie set, there's something called any movie set or television set, there's something called Video Village. And what Video Village is, is. Is this area. It's usually tented, and usually there's coffee and blah, blah, blah. And it's where the director and the producers sit. And that's where when you're shooting something, the feed comes and you actually get to watch it as it's being shot, as it's being captured, you know, and sometimes the stars will come by and, you know, the studio executives and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just hate it. I absolutely hate it. You know, and we all have. Ourselves.

[Kim Scott]

I can imagine it's like the most hierarchical, like the most petty, hierarchical place on the planet.

[Adam Richman]

I mean, we have the chairs with our names on them. So, you know what I try?

[Amy Sandler]

Are some chairs bigger than others?

[Adam Richman]

Some chairs have really good cup holders. Some chairs have less good cup holders. But, you know what I try to do is totally flatten that when we start a production, it's that everyone is welcome at Video Village, there are no chairs with people's names on them.

[Kim Scott]

You know, anybody can come get a cup of coffee, like.

[Adam Richman]

Exactly.

[Kim Scott]

Serve the stars, lesser croissants.

[Adam Richman]

Yes. You know, it's. The hierarchy, without question, is. I mean. Yes, Kim, what you said is exactly, exactly accurate. There needs to be some organizational role so that you actually can manage and make things. But that's different than sort of embracing a hierarchy like we're talking about right now, which is really the nemesis of creativity. There's no question.

[Kim Scott]

Yeah. I mean, a role has got to be a job, not a value judgment. You know, with.

[Adam Richman]

Well put. Well put.

[Kim Scott]

As a director, you have a job to do, but it doesn't mean you're better than all the other people.

[Adam Richman]

Absolutely.

[Kim Scott]

It's really funny. I don't know. I wonder if you have a theory about why this is. Like, I've done radical caner talks in so many different kinds of environments. I've gone to West Point. I've gone to Wall Street.

[Adam Richman]

I was there.

[Kim Scott]

Like, yes, yes, yes.

[Adam Richman]

It was awesome.

[Kim Scott]

So all these different environments and the most hierarchical place I ever have been in my whole life was Hollywood. At one point, somebody said they wanted to create a TV show of radical candor. Got on a plane and I flew down and I met someone. And I was rolling my rolly bag, and somebody raced up to me, grabbed my bag from me and said, the talent doesn't carry their own bags. And I'm like, what kind of weird world have I entered? Like, it was. It was in. What is going on. I did not expect for Hollywood to be the most hierarchical place on the planet that I've ever been.

[Adam Richman]

It. You're. How do you find. It's just. You know what? It's years and years of people sort of building that hierarchy that needs to be ripped down. And I think it's.

[Kim Scott]

I have a theory.

[Adam Richman]

I would love your theory.

[Kim Scott]

It could be dead wrong. But I think when you're doing creative work, your ego. You pour your ego into it. And then when you. And. And your ego gets bruised in the creative process. Badly, often. And so I think there's, like. There's something about that. And then you get. So your ego's been bruised and bashed. And then you get some power and then you, like, have to. Because you're wounded. You build these walls around yourself or something. I don't know, maybe that's too.

[Adam Richman]

You know what's interesting about that comment?

[Kim Scott]

Egotistical Hollywood people.

[Adam Richman]

I think it's the people in the middle, you know, who are insecure. The people that I've worked with. I mean, you always say in Hollywood, and this is something I definitely do, like, when you find the good people, you stay with them because the good people are truly amazing. And they're not insecure. They don't have anything to prove. It's just about the work and the collaboration. It's about the partnership. And I guess what I've found with the number of, you know, the dozens and dozens of people that I've worked with over the years, whether they be actors or directors or producers or executives, you know, the ones that are super successful in many ways, they don't have anything to prove. So they're all about the work, you know, which is just so refreshing. Like you might think, oh, I'm working. I'm going to be doing a movie with Clint Eastwood, which, as you both know, we did Gran Torino. And, you know, Clint, just the greatest guy to work with. I mean, just so down to earth, like, no, you know, no air about him. It's really. It was about the work. So many other people in my career that I've found like that again, because those are people that they don't. They're secure in who they are. They don't feel like they have something to prove. There's a lot of insecurity in Hollywood.

[Kim Scott]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amy Sandler]

Adam, I'm wondering, like, one of your strengths that I just deeply admire as a human and friend is just how, how good you are at cultivating and continuing friendships and staying in touch and specifically also mentoring younger people and helping them, dare I say, grow in their careers and in their personal development. And I'm just thinking, as you're saying this, you know, I'm thinking of my own kind of foray into entertainment and being told the summer between my first and second year during business school by somebody, you know. Oh, let me. I'll tell you who all the, you know, people you need to avoid are, you know, the really sort of cruel, bullying people, you know, which is a strange advice to get when you're going into a business. I don't know how much has changed, hopefully some of that, but I'm wondering, given just how much entertainment has changed in terms of these Sort of big distribution systems and that now people don't necessarily need to go as traditional routes. Like what advice would you have for someone who is, you know, starting out their career or is in more of a mid level, who does have something to prove, like, how can they do that in a way that feels still aligned to, you know, acting in integrity?

[Adam Richman]

It's such an interesting question and I guess just there's something I want to say in response to the first part of what you said, Amy, which is, you know, mentorship, no matter what the field, you know, in business and entertainment, as a business, mentorship is so important and I just think we all owe it to the world, to each other, to ourselves, to mentor, to give back. You know, we were mentored, all of us. Yes, all of us had mentors. And it's just, it's such an important thing to do and, and to help the next generation to lift them up and, and to help help them find their path. So I just wanted to, just, just wanted to say that. But I mean, I think, you know, I think the thing about that kind of toxicity is just, and this is something, you know, which is, I think at the core of Radical Candor, either side of it, obviously the caring part of it, but also the giving, feedback part of it is that it all starts with kindness, you know, like it has to start with kindness and our careers have to start with kindness, you know, and so if you lead, if that's the foot you lead with in everything you do, it's going to be good. And I think that's a real problem in business, no matter what the sector is, that many people are not leading with kindness.

[Kim Scott]

That is the truth. And it seems like, it seems like people not leading with kindness is on the ascendance. Like there was a, when I wrote Radical Candor, I felt like there was sort of the shared understanding that it's all about collaboration, that command and control dominance doesn't work. And I think that is. That debate is opening back up. The command and control crowd is getting loud right now.

[Adam Richman]

That is so true. And let's hope that goes into the background again as quickly as well.

[Kim Scott]

Let's have the debate though. I think one of the things that I want to acknowledge is that I was talking to someone recently about how do you create these sort of environments where people do their best work? And I said, look, I have a very clear perspective, my belief, but you know, there are companies that have these command and control leaders that are successful. Like, let's not pretend like it can't work. But let's understand why it works in the short term and what the long term problems it creates are. Have the real conversation.

[Amy Sandler]

I wonder, Kim. Like, just building on that, Adam, from your own experience, whether it's in terms of fundraising or whether it's dealing with some challenges on the set, what advice might you have or what have you found as a way of ensuring that that toxicity doesn't come into the set? I mean, you talked about the Village and that there's sort of equity there, but in terms of actual behavior or giving feedback about, like, this is the culture I want to have on the set. How have you navigated that?

[Adam Richman]

I think. I think there's a couple important points to answer that question. Amy. I think it's really important to set the table at the beginning of either a project or a business or when someone's coming into an organization to really set the table. Well, I mean, not the three of us, because what I'm about to say is, like, so many of our colleagues from hbs, you know, kind of laughed at all the softer lead courses and the OB courses. The three of us didn't. But all that stuff that is sort of at the core of what makes successful culture and business. And so I think setting the table properly is so important. But I also think, I love this.

[Kim Scott]

Metaphor of set the table, but can you give a specific example of what you do to set the table? Like, what does that mean?

[Adam Richman]

Yeah, so what? So I'll give again. I'm going to go back to Grow because it. Because we just finished and so set the table. Setting the table with Grow is having a director like the incredible John McPhail, like we had on Grow, we have on Grow, who at the end of every day goes around and thanks every single person working that day, and these are hundreds of people and gives a safe hug to every single person. That creates an environment where everyone feels valued. From the first ad, who's at the top of the food chain, what's an ad? An assistant director down to the caterer or a production assistant from our stars like Golda Rochevel from Bridgerton to our extras, it's making everyone feel valued. And I think that lesson is so easily transferable to a corporate environment, you know, and it doesn't cost anything. You know what it.

[Kim Scott]

Well, I mean, it does. It is hard to remember to express gratitude and appreciation. It then costs money, but it does cost effort. But you get a lot out of making that effort.

[Adam Richman]

You get a lot out of it. And I guess that goes back to proper organizational behavior training for executives, you know, because it's like it doesn't cost. It doesn't cost anything. And, and it, it just. And you know, this, there's lots of things about this that I also think intersect with radical respect as well.

[Kim Scott]

Yeah.

[Adam Richman]

It's. In some ways it's so simple. It's such a simple idea.

[Amy Sandler]

And that's really interesting when you paint that picture of the director going around and taking the time to say thank you. And what's popping up for me, especially for so many of us who work virtually or hybrid or in office, are we taking just a moment or a minute to look the other person in the eye? And Kim, you've made the point with radical candor. These don't need to be 20 hour long feedback sessions, but just being very intentional and showing that appreciation and doing it daily and not just having something on a wall of like, here's what we believe, but like that he's actually doing it. So when we say set the table, like, what I hear is actually it's a very like in person. It doesn't have to be in person, but it's an actual human pressing.

[Kim Scott]

Yeah. Gratitude and appreciation. How long, I mean, there's. How many people on the set? How long would it take him at the end of the day to like, look each person?

[Adam Richman]

It would take a while. I mean, you know, like, I mean, 45 minutes. I mean, it's not, you know, it's not a lingering interaction, but you know.

[Kim Scott]

Maybe so you're not like going into great gory detail. But you know, I love the turkey sandwich to the kid or whatever. Yeah.

[Adam Richman]

You know, yeah. Or not even that. It's just like, thank you for the great work today. You know, thank you for being here.

[Amy Sandler]

Just being seen. I mean, we all have a need to be seen.

[Adam Richman]

Yeah, exactly. You know, and I think something I've learned a mistake that I made with.

[Amy Sandler]

Oh, good. We're very excited to hear about mistakes.

[Kim Scott]

Yeah.

[Adam Richman]

So here we go. So, you know, when you're making a movie, specifically, the process is bifurcated. So you have really. It's bifurcated in a lot of ways. You have the development process, which usually happens in an office.

[Kim Scott]

What do you mean by development process?

[Adam Richman]

Sure. Yeah. So development is, you know, and Kim, you actually do. Because you're doing it when you're locking yourself and you're room and you're writing books and you're coming up with ideas.

[Kim Scott]

So that's one person thinking.

[Adam Richman]

Well, one person. But also you're interacting Developing your. You know, we work with a writer as executives, we have a back and forth. We have an iterative process with the writers.

[Kim Scott]

So the development process is when you've gotten a script for Grow and you decide you're going to develop it into, or you've gotten an idea, like, who are you developing what with?

[Adam Richman]

So at Double Nickel, we, I mean, you could. The business in general, the sort of creative content business of making movies, making television. You know, you could start further back at a book. You could start with an article. You could start. You're just sitting around and you're like, I have this idea, I have this really interesting idea.

[Kim Scott]

So it could be an idea, it could be a book, it could be an article.

[Adam Richman]

It also could be a script that needs work. Could be a script or it could Double nickel. Yeah, yeah, it could be. Right. It could be a YouTube piece, could be play. It could be anything. It could be a poem. You know, it could, it could literally be. It could be. You know, we're having this conversation and we, we finish it and I, I think there's actually a really interesting.

[Amy Sandler]

There's a feature film in here in the background.

[Adam Richman]

Okay.

[Kim Scott]

So there's, there's an. There's an idea expressed in some way.

[Adam Richman]

There's an idea.

[Kim Scott]

You're developing the idea.

[Adam Richman]

The idea. So that's development and then.

[Kim Scott]

And that's a collaborative process. Who's developing?

[Adam Richman]

Very collaborative process. So you're developing it with writers, in some cases, multiple WR, some cases 1 writer. And you're usually developing it with the producer and in some cases the director as well.

[Kim Scott]

So it's.

[Adam Richman]

I am the producer.

[Kim Scott]

Producer, director, writer.

[Adam Richman]

These people in a room. Yes. Sometimes in a virtual room, but sometimes the director doesn't come till later and then you undergo another development process to integrate the director's ideas. So development is one process. Then you have something called pre production, which is to keep it focused. I went to Scotland and for two months we were doing pre production, which basically means you're scouting locations, you're hiring people, you're working on designs, you're. You're doing everything, you're casting, you're doing everything to get to the point where you're building your team, essentially you're building the sort of foundation of your product. There's a lot of R D going on at that moment.

[Amy Sandler]

Can I ask, like, just as you're going through that, I'm wondering just to make this, you know, more applicable, like for you as the producer sitting in the development and then being in pre production. Is there this part of you that's you're having to straddle both, like the creativity, like, oh, this is a great idea. But there's also some part of you like, oh, that's going to cost $2 million. Like, how do you manage? My understanding is that you're having to kind of embody both of those things without question.

[Adam Richman]

Every moment of every day. I'm embodying both. You know, then that's. That was what was interesting to me about this career path because you're really, you're 50% one and 50% the other 100% the whole. And sometimes you have to go a little bit more one way, a little bit more the other way. It can be fascinating. It can also be really hard.

[Kim Scott]

Yeah.

[Adam Richman]

You know, because you want your, you want to give everything to your talent. You want, you, you want that production designer to have, you know, to have enough money to budget. Yeah, yeah, you want that, but you also can't do that.

[Kim Scott]

Yeah, yeah. You know, so, so what's the radical candor like in the. Let's go back to the development process? Like you say, great idea, but I hate this part of it. Like how. Give me an example of some radical candor you had to give in that process.

[Adam Richman]

Yeah, I mean, so before you get to that part of the process, it's about establishing the relationship with the writer.

[Kim Scott]

Okay, Right. That's good. See, I forgot. You're so good. Adam, he's like, Kim, it goes back to the relationship.

[Amy Sandler]

Come on.

[Adam Richman]

Just to remind you what you wrote.

[Kim Scott]

Care personally. This happened to me often when I was writing Radical.

[Adam Richman]

I would.

[Kim Scott]

My editor and I had a good creative process going on and I'd write something and because, because I, my natural instinct is to show I care and I'm having to manage against myself in order because challenging directly doesn't always feel very care personally. I would sometimes overcompensate and say things that sounded harsh and my, my, my editor would write in the comments. Care personally much. Question mark. Question mark? Question mark. Like, oh, yeah, gotta go back to that part. By the way, I have some radical candor. Somebody has a phone that's buzzing on the table, you need to put it on airplane.

[Adam Richman]

Oh, I think that's me. I'm sorry.

[Kim Scott]

Let's go.

[Adam Richman]

Shutting it down.

[Kim Scott]

So what's some radical candor in the development process?

[Adam Richman]

So, so first you establish the relationship to care personally. Okay. So that establishes trust in the relationship. And then, you know, as you're having this iterative back and forth process, you know, it's, it's never, you know, red pen. This is terrible. This is, it's very much like, this is working so well. Yeah, this, this part of it is working so well. If it's, if there, if there's something that's genuinely working so well and this part of it. Let's talk about it. You know, and it's. How do we. And it's, it's a. There's a way to talk to this. It's not just talking to creative people. There's a way to talk to people.

[Amy Sandler]

Human beings, actually, that. With this. Because this is really interesting. Like your own perspective on what's kind of asynchronous versus real time feedback. So, like, if you're in a. And I'm getting into the nitty gritty, but I think you probably have some interesting reflections, like, what would you put in a, in a document or in a script? And then what would warrant, like, oh, Kim and I really need to talk real time about that.

[Kim Scott]

Like, how do you think up the phone and call.

[Amy Sandler]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Richman]

So I think before you get back to a writer with comments, we will have a big iterative process ourselves, myself, my amazing business partner, the iconic Jeanette Kahn, to talk about material and talk about, you know, what, what's working, what's not working. So you have, you kind of have a mind mount of the direction you want to go in and then you go to the writer. Really.

[Kim Scott]

Wait, sorry, I'm going to interrupt and pause because I think that's really important right there. Like, maybe you're wrong that. So now you, you say, I don't think this is working. And then you talk to Jeanette about it and maybe she says, you're wrong. Like, so now you're going into this more humble. When you, you know, this was working for me. Jeanette loved it. Like, ask the writer.

[Adam Richman]

Exactly. It's not black and white. It's not black and white. I think that's really.

[Kim Scott]

There's no data. Like, this is all about opinions.

[Adam Richman]

It's a business of opinions. Right. So it's not, it's not right or wrong, but it's. So we. If we're. We. And we in most cases are financing the development of a property, you know, at the end of the day, our opinion will be the final opinion because it's. Until we get to a point where we then sell it to Warner Brothers or Universal and then they will come in and say, actually, this whole scene, that you might have loved that scene, Adam, but it's not working. And we're cutting it.

[Kim Scott]

Yeah.

[Adam Richman]

You know what I mean? So it's.

[Kim Scott]

And that's probably painful for you.

[Amy Sandler]

You just spent so much time on the author.

[Adam Richman]

What. It's not painful. And I'll tell you why.

[Kim Scott]

Sometimes it feels liberating to get rid.

[Adam Richman]

Of because it's, you know, this is about, again, whether you're making a movie, a television show, whether you're creating a painting, any creative process, any creative business, it's about getting up to bat. So it's about, you know, you want to keep things moving, you want to keep creating, you want to keep making for all makers. So part of that is letting things go. And you have to be able to let things go. But you also need to know when to fight for things that shouldn't go to the trash. And I'll give a great example. There's a really funny scene in our movie where, you know, Queen Charlotte and, you know, iconic Nick Frost, who's this amazing British actor, comedian, and our star, Priya Rose Brookwell, one of our amazing kids who's in the movie, go to this zoo to basically steal some lion poo.

[Kim Scott]

Oh, to help the pumpkin grow.

[Adam Richman]

Yeah. Because it's good fertilizer. And, you know, and so in an early cut that John delivered to us, we, as the. As the producers said, you know, for this cut, we're gonna cut that scene because we feel like, you know, it's not really needed. And, you know, it's funny, but, you know, let's cut it.

[Kim Scott]

Never cut the poop.

[Adam Richman]

Never cut the poop. Never cut the poop.

[Amy Sandler]

Words of wisdom from Kim Scott on how to make a movie.

[Kim Scott]

One creative director.

[Adam Richman]

Yeah, it's really true. So we cut it. But John, to his, you know, to his credit, and again, I think any creative who, when they're so passionate about something, really fought for it and we put it back in. And he was 100% right. And there were some things that he. Some things that he wanted in that didn't get in, some things that I want to cut didn't get cut. But I think one of the beautiful things when you have a radically candid relationship where you really care about the person you're collaborating with, is that at the end of the day, you're going to win some, you're going to lose some, but it's not really about that. It's about the fact that you have this really solid foundation of a relationship and trust there and that you're. At the end of the day, you both just want the best product.

[Kim Scott]

Yes.

[Adam Richman]

And that's not about ego.

[Kim Scott]

And you. Yeah. And you care about the product together.

[Adam Richman]

Exactly.

[Amy Sandler]

Yeah. And Adam, what you said about like, we're makers, I love that, like there was so much about like momentum. And I think one of the things in making movies and just the creative act, and I think this applies to anyone, you know, not just in a creative field, but there's. We're going from idea to output. And so I think what you're talking about is, and this is one of the things, working with Kim and working with Jason, of just testing and experimenting and then you have something to actually respond to versus sort of an abstraction. And yours is a bit higher stakes. Right. Because you now have a whole bunch of people and we just spent all this money and so you're trying to plan for some of those abstraction. So I just want to make sure that we had covered. You had the development process, you had the pre production process. Were there any other processes that we haven't gotten into where there's another kind of radical.

[Adam Richman]

And this is a great. I'm so glad you brought that up, Amy. So this goes back to why we started this line of discussion. So after production, there's post. Post production where you edit and you put the sound together, you put the music on, you do the effects, you make the movie. The movie, you know, it's.

[Kim Scott]

That's where a lot of the magic happens there. Yeah, magic.

[Adam Richman]

And what I didn't do at the beginning of the post process on Grow, and a lot of it had to do with the fact that my amazing post team, our partners at Blazing Griffin in Glasgow, they're just the best. Just love everyone there. They were in Glasgow. I was back in New York when we were doing post and we didn't have a table setting session with everyone, you know, we didn't have a session where the entire team got on and sort of talked about how we wanted to proceed together and sort of laying out the culture of post for grow, you know, and I think not setting. So it took us a little bit longer to get to where we wanted to be. We got there. But like, the lesson for that for me was, oh, you know, in what I do, I have to really look at each process and set the table at each part of the process. Because it's not like, because you did it in production, it's going to automatically carry over to post. It's not.

[Kim Scott]

And I think it's so interesting because it feels like especially you were probably excited to jump into the work. Nobody wanted to spend an extra hour, all getting on a zoom together at different time zones to set the table. And yet taking the time to set the table saves you time in the end. It's why I often say in a staff meeting you want to start with a check in. Even though it can feel frustrating, it feels like, like I don't have time to socialize with you people. Let's just get our work done. It is worth taking the time to check in with people and so that you know what's going on in their lives. Setting the table feels slow, but it actually, not only is it a way to show you care personally, it actually is, is a way to improve efficiency.

[Amy Sandler]

I agree. I mean, so much of it from my perspective is again about clarity. Like we are being clear on how we want to work together. And this is how I'm expecting we're going to work together because we all go into these meetings having all these assumptions that are unspoken and then all of a sudden we're in a very different movie.

[Kim Scott]

Like literally.

[Amy Sandler]

So, Adam, I think there's some wisdom there, you know, for folks who are listening who maybe work as an independent contractor or work as a consultant or aren't necessarily in a more formal hierarchy, but you're working with a different post team and a different development team and you're having to go in and out of these different meetings and relationships. Do you have any advice for folks of what you have found works well in sort of a quick table setting or sort of how you like to build rapport relationship that might be transferable.

[Adam Richman]

So this is such a great discussion. I mean, I think even if it's a quick table setting, it's essential. You know, it's just, it's time that is so, so well spent. And Kim, what you said is right on it. It'll save you time later. You know, it just absolutely will save you time later. And I think, I think that, you know, if you're, if you're Amy, to your point, like if you're an independent contractor and you're someone who's moving from project to project or different consultancies at different companies, you still want that. You still absolutely want that. Because for you to be the most effective team member at a company or in a project based work environment, you want to understand what the culture is and you hope that the culture is one of collaboration and of kindness and of candor and you need to understand that going in.

[Kim Scott]

Yeah. And I think it's so important, especially in a creative process where you're going to cut things or not cut things. Sometimes what can happen is you think you're on the same page. You both have this conversation and you say, we're going to do this. And then you look at the work product and you see something totally different happening. And it's so easy in that moment to get angry that you have to say it again or have another conversation or you make up this story in your head about this person is ignoring me, they don't respect me. And just pick up the phone and call the person.

[Adam Richman]

Right.

[Kim Scott]

Like, and reminding someone I was working with someone on something just the other day. And I thought we had agreement. And then what I thought we had agreed to wasn't happening. And I was like, I started making up the story in my head. Like this person didn't tell me what they. And then I'm like, why don't I just pick up the phone and call? And we had a quick conversation. They're like, oh, I didn't get it. Here's why I didn't get it. I'm like, oh, now I know what I need to say next time. And so I think remembering that radical candor is never a one way street. It's like a lot of little back and forths, like setting the table. Like we're going to. If we say something and it's not and what we think is was going to happen doesn't happen. Like, pick up the phone and call before you get angry, you know?

[Adam Richman]

Yeah.

[Kim Scott]

Ask why.

[Adam Richman]

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. And I just. It's so interesting, Kim. You and I have talked about this a lot over the years, but I mean, this structure really applies to every part of your life.

[Kim Scott]

Yes. Your kids, your spouse.

[Adam Richman]

Every part of your life, which is, you know, I've been pushing you for a while to say, when are you doing radical candor at home? When is that? When is that book coming out?

[Kim Scott]

The House of Radical Candor.

[Adam Richman]

The House of Radical Candor. Exactly, exactly. You know, but it's just, it's. This really is something, you know, that intersects every part of our lives.

[Amy Sandler]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Adam, a couple more questions. Just as we kind of move towards a close. One of the things that struck me when we were chatting before this conversation was around why you chose to do the film grow. And the word joy was something that you used and I just would love to hear more about. We need to more joy in the world. Tell us.

[Adam Richman]

Yeah, I mean, I just. Look, you both feel this way too. I know you do because we've talked about it together. These are hard days right now, these are. These are hard and complicated days. And what I realized about entertainment, now more than ever, is that it really needs to entertain and it needs to uplift and it needs to give people a distraction. It needs to transport them into something that might feel a little bit better.

[Kim Scott]

And so I think it's bigger than a distraction. Also, Adam, like the. I think it's positive target identification. Like, if you're navigating hard times, you need to have an imagination of what could go well. It's all very clear to us what could go badly. And so I think that imagination and building a world in which things go well will help us really build a world in which things really go well. Like, I think that is. That is the purpose of art at some level.

[Adam Richman]

Yeah, I totally agree. And, you know, and for us, a purpose has always been to really focus on subjects that are somehow contributing to the cultural conversation. So whether it's issues of race or multiculturalism or social justice with grow, it's issues about the environment and issues about what makes a family. How. How do you define a family? What can different families look like? There always has to be something in there for us that contributes to that conversation, because making movies is hard, getting them made as hard. And so there has to be something that we're really passionate about that speaks to us. And there's so many themes in Grow that really, really spoke to us. And, you know, and Amy, back to your point, I mean, you know, and just the fact that the movie, at the end of the day, just really gives a tremendous amount of joy, that was a big reason for us wanting to move forward on it. And the other thing for me, I mean, there's so many reasons. I mean, this project is such a special project to me, you know, of, you know, the 18 movies that I've made, you know, I read this script first many years ago when I was living in California, and it struck a nerve for me immediately because it sort of nostalgically took me back to my own childhood and driving to the Berkshires with my mother and my sister and our old blue Chevy van that we would drive to the pumpkin farm, and we'd fill that van with pumpkins from floor to ceiling. We'd drive it back to Port Washington on Long island in New York, and we'd unload those pumpkins in front of the post office, and we'd start selling them to the town to raise money for the cultural arts center in the town to bring more arts to Port Washington and to the schools. It was this visceral memory and this nostalgia that the movie really captured. And I think for all of us as adults, I think every adult who's seen it, it kind of brings that back up. It's a little bit like those early Amblin movies that Steven Spielberg did that kind of captures the innocence of kids in a way that you don't see a lot anymore in film. And it's just something that I really loved about it. I hope we delivered on. I look forward to talking to you both about it, but I think, you know, for us, our trajectory has shifted a little bit in terms of the types of material, like we're looking for. Stuff that's really uplifting, that's positive, that brings joy, the things you'll be seeing from us going forward. There's a lot of triumphant David and Goliath stories that we're going to be working on that'll be next after Grow. And again, things go.

[Kim Scott]

David killed Goliath, you know, and violent language, you know, spell Goliath. Maybe that's less.

[Amy Sandler]

And Adam, as you're sharing that, what's coming up for me is just we are in this, you know, as human beings, and the purpose of art transporting us, imagining something even better. But also in the experiencing of the film or of the song or of the piece of art, we have different sensory experiences, and by feeling joy, we can then create more joy around us. So giving us the experience of joy is so powerful. And I would be remiss if I did not talk about this song, Grow by Katie Tunstall that, as you know, you have put in my head and I can't stop singing poorly.

[Adam Richman]

It's an earworm.

[Amy Sandler]

So it is. It's amazing. But like, that song, just like, I. I'm so excited when I see the film, but it puts me in a different place. I mean, I'm sure everyone listening can think about certain songs that elevate your mood, and I think your purpose with the film is doing that. So before we close, tell us about how did you get this song with Katie Tunstall to come to life?

[Adam Richman]

So it's. It's a really. It's a. It's a great story. So our composers, just two guys from Glasgow, incredibly talented, compose the Music For John McPhail's last film, Anna and the Apocalypse, which is a Christmas zombie high school musical. And they're just incredibly great guys, incredibly talented guys. They wrote this song and they first recorded the vocals for it. Do you guys remember that movie, that thing you do?

[Kim Scott]

No.

[Amy Sandler]

Was it a 50s movie.

[Adam Richman]

It was, it was, it was a Tom Hanks. It was a play tone movie. And that thing, it just, they. It was like a bop, you know, it was like just this great song that you couldn't get out of your head. And so they sang it. It was just. It was just fantastic. But they have a friendship with KT Tunstall and they were like, you know, we could really do something with this. Let us see if KT wants to record it. And she did. And so our studio, Sky Studios in the uk, who was our, our anchor in this film, and they, they came in and really were a big reason why this film happened. You know, again, another great partner, just amazing collaborative partners. They have a whole music division, Sky. So the head of the music division, the incredible Sue Hepworth, loves this song, as do we all, as does everyone at Sky. And they're really going to make a huge push for this as a big single globally. And so we're just thrilled about it. And so it happened kind of, you know, it happened because of relationships and. But it wouldn't have happened if the song wasn't great. And frankly, if the movie. Oops, there goes my, my earpiece. If the movie, if the movie wasn't, you know, the song was inspired by the movie, like, I think it was. They really work hand in hand with each other. But, you know, I just want to go back to one thing really quickly, Amy, that you asked earlier, like, why Grow? Why now? You know, the other thing, for me, it's really. It's our first family movie at double nickel. And I just really wanted to make something that, that my kids could see with their friends, too, that was really important and that all of our, all, all of the young people in our lives could see and something that really sort of projected where we want the world to be, you know, and, yeah, and I think Grow does that.

[Kim Scott]

I love that. I can't wait to watch it with my kids because I agree with you, like, one of my goals to. These are dark times and the kids are little. They're not optimistic about the future. And we want to give them some optimistic visions of what a future could look like.

[Amy Sandler]

Absolutely. Well, Adam, this has been such a fantastic conversation. One thing that I'm struck by, for folks, you know, for those of us creative folks in business school, but it is through your business savvy, your strategic skills, your fundraising skills, that you are able to bring this to life. And so that is a unique gift and I want to acknowledge it. And just that creativity and business can inspire each and make sort of one plus one equals three. So thank you for sharing any last words before we close.

[Adam Richman]

Just wonderful to spend this time with you both and just so much fun. Thanks for having me. It was a great, great way to spend an hour.

[Kim Scott]

Thank you for being here, Adam. And thank you for introducing me to Amy.

[Amy Sandler]

Yes, I will forever be grateful for that, Adam. And for those of you listening, please do just like I'm going to do. Get your ticket to see Grow coming to a theater near you. And if you want to get tickets, please go to Grow, the film that's G-R-O-W-T-H-E-F-I-L-M.com you can follow on social media at GrowTheFilm. For more on this podcast, go to RadicalCander.com podcast you can see the show notes, we'll put a bunch of resources for you. And if you are a visual person, you can now watch our podcast on YouTube and Spotify. Thanks for being here.

[Kim Scott]

Take care everybody.

[Amy Sandler]

The Radical Candor podcast is based on the book Radical Candor via Kick Ass Boss Without Losing youg Humanity by Kim Scott. Episodes are written and produced by Brandi Neal with script editing by me, Amy Sandler. The show features Radical Candor co founders Kim Scott and Jason Rosoph and is hosted by me, still Amy Sandler. Nick Karisimi is our audio engineer. The Radical Candor podcast theme music was composed by Cliff Goldmacher. Follow us on LinkedIn, Radical Candor the company and visit [e-mail].

[Kim Scott]

This will sound.

[Adam Richman]

Mad, but every time I touch a.

[Kim Scott]

Plant, it's like I can feel what they're feeling. Charlie, look at me, not the plant.

[Adam Richman]

Took a while to track you down. Is she house trained?

[Amy Sandler]

This is my niece.

[Kim Scott]

All right, what is it with this place and pumpkins?

[Adam Richman]

Ready for the contest?

[Kim Scott]

I'm going to win. My dad's going to win the contest too. You got much of a team. I'm working on it.

[Adam Richman]

That ain't mine, is it? We snogged once at a school disco.

[Kim Scott]

But what snogger?

[Amy Sandler]

She's entering the pumpkin contest.

[Adam Richman]

Wanted a few tips. This ain't some grow your own salad school project. This is all out vegetable warfare. You want to steal our secrets? Release the hands. You really think plants feel things like us, don't you?

[Kim Scott]

I do. This one's lonely.

[Adam Richman]

Lonely's got me.

[Amy Sandler]

I don't know whether this thing of yours is real, but you brought us together.

[Adam Richman]

I can't thank you enough. Well, that's unexpected. It's Charlie Lynn. It all.

[Kim Scott]

Whatever happens.

[Adam Richman]

So proud of you one then. Sensei. Let's see what your magical green fingers feel. It's huge. You got to grow harder. Go home. Now. We must show our commitment to the.

[Kim Scott]

New life that we are creating by having a wee on it. Oh, that is enough crazy for one day, thank you very much.