Radical Candor Podcast
Episode: Scaling Smart: Leading Effectively When You Have 50+ Direct Reports (7 | 10)
Hosts: Kim Scott, Amy Sandler (Jason Rosoff not present)
Date: March 5, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the challenges and strategies of leading effectively when you’re responsible for a very large number of direct reports—specifically in environments like manufacturing, where direct reports can easily number 30, 40, or even 50. Kim Scott and Amy Sandler tackle a listener’s question about how to maintain meaningful connections, hold effective one-on-ones, and build a culture of Radical Candor when traditional relationship-building isn’t scalable. The conversation centers on practical tools, prioritizing culture over individual relationships, systems for amplifying employee voices, and how technology (and old-fashioned management by walking around) can support leaders at scale.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Relationships vs. Culture: What Scales?

• Kim Scott reiterates: “Relationships don’t scale, but culture does.” (02:27)
  • In large teams, it’s impossible to have deep, personal relationships with every direct report.
  • “You cannot have 50 real deep meaningful relationships, you just can’t. Human beings do not scale.” (02:27)
• The job of a leader, then, is to create systems and a culture where every team member feels heard and empowered—even if not by the manager directly.

2. The Ideas Team: A Scalable Solution for Feedback

• Listener Question: How to do one-on-ones in a manufacturing environment with 30-50 direct reports and limited space/privacy? (01:33)

• Kim’s Recommendation: Form an “ideas team”—an internal group that collects and prioritizes suggestions, complaints, and feedback from everyone. (04:08)

  • This team distills input for the manager, preventing burnout and bottlenecks.
  • “They can ask for, you know, three or four actions for the manager to take each week, but not 30 or 50.” (04:10)

• What goes to the ideas team versus personal concerns?

  • “Anything that's frustrating you, from furniture to strategy, I would say. But not your team members. You should be radically candid with your team members.” (05:29)
  • Notable Quote: “The most scalable thing is to create a culture in which if you have a problem with someone, you go talk to that person directly.” (05:29)

• Technological Tools: Kim mentions Joyous, a platform for collecting and routing workplace ideas, but stresses that low-tech solutions—a shared document, suggestion box, or voting board—work, too. (06:30, 08:29)

3. Why Listening Matters (and How to Scale It)

• The core purpose of one-on-ones is “to listen to people and to help them clarify their ideas. Because new ideas are fragile and so easily trampled.” (07:54)
• With too many direct reports, you can’t listen to everyone directly. Instead, build “systems where people are doing that for each other.” (07:54)
• Emphasizes that most business innovations and improvements come from listening to those closest to the work:
  • Story: In a telecom company, repeated feedback (via Joyous) about needing a specific wrench in every work van led to greater efficiency and happier employees. (09:29–10:56)

4. Management by Walking Around

• One substitute for one-on-ones is “management by walking around.”

  • Set aside time—an hour a week or day—to walk the shop floor and have spontaneous, unscripted conversations. (11:08)
  • Cultural Impact: Personal anecdotes show that leaders “moving the couches” can set lasting cultural norms, even years after leaving a company.
  • Kim’s Reflection: “You can have a big cultural impact just by walking around, noticing things and fixing them yourself. Like, you’re not above any job...” (13:33)

• Overcoming Skepticism:

  • Both hosts discuss that staff may initially mistrust a manager’s sudden interest:
    • “The first time you do this, people might be nervous and the only way out is through.” (15:44)
    • Be patient; over time, approachability and consistency build trust.

• For managers uncomfortable with small talk:

  • Focus on genuine curiosity and learning something new from team members.
  • “Be genuinely curious...I’m going to learn something new. I’m going to make life a little better today.” (18:29)

5. Streamlining One-on-Ones at Scale

• If possible, block out three 15-minute slots per day for quick, focused one-on-ones, rotating through the roster.

  • “You just, you got to have low expectations of how much you can say, yeah, 15 minutes...you’re not going to build this deep relationship.” (20:05)

• Structure for a 15-minute One-on-One:

  • 12 minutes: Focus on the direct report’s agenda—ask, “What’s on your mind?” Give three minutes of silence if they don’t have something. (21:38)
  • Encourage them to take ownership of problems—“Your job is to help them figure out how to get it fixed…not fix it yourself.” (23:47–24:03)
  • 3 minutes: Solicit feedback for yourself, e.g., “What can I do or stop doing?” (41:20)

• Empowerment vs. Burnout:

  • Don’t absorb everyone’s action items:
    • “If you try to fix, address every complaint... you’re going to be, you’re gonna start canceling those one on ones, I can promise you.” (23:47)
    • “There’s a sort of arrogance to say, ah, I can fix every problem everybody brings me.” (28:11)

• Active Listening:

  • Full attention is more valuable than duration: “I would so much rather have...five minutes of someone’s full and present attention than an hour meeting where they’re not at all paying attention.” (29:44)

  • Amy and Kim demo a two-minute focus listening exercise, emphasizing staying fully present and resisting the urge to problem-solve. (31:37–39:34)

6. When Possible, Create a Management Structure

• If policy allows, advocate for a management structure (more “layers”) to ensure managers aren't overextended and people are adequately supported.
  • Evidence shows managers with over five direct reports struggle to meet best practice standards. (41:28)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Happiness and saving money tend to go hand in hand. And even more than that, happiness and innovation go hand in hand.” – Kim Scott (10:56)
• “If you hate small talk, I hate small talk too...Remember that you have a purpose.” – Kim Scott (18:29)
• “The first job in the one on one is to listen...sometimes a good follow up question is do you want me to listen or do you want me to try to help you?” – Kim Scott (27:39–28:10)
• “If you try to fix every problem everybody brings you...it does. It's a sort of arrogance to say, ah, I can fix every problem.” – Kim Scott (28:11)
• “I would so much rather have...five minutes of someone’s full and present attention than an hour meeting where they’re not at all paying attention to me because now we've just wasted an hour and I feel unimportant.” – Amy Sandler (29:44)

Key Segments & Timestamps

• 01:33 — Listener Question: How do you scale one-on-ones with 30–50 direct reports?
• 04:08 — Kim introduces the concept of an “ideas team.”
• 05:29 — What should/shouldn’t go to the ideas team? Distinguishing process complaints from interpersonal ones.
• 08:29 — Technology and low-tech options to support idea-sharing.
• 10:56 — Story of how worker feedback about a missing tool led to operational improvements.
• 11:08–15:44 — Management by walking around; building trust during new practices.
• 18:29 — How to approach walk-arounds if you dislike small talk.
• 20:05 — Suggested approach: short, rotating one-on-ones (“emotional whiplash” warning).
• 21:38 — The one-on-one formula: 12 minutes for the direct report’s agenda, 3 minutes for soliciting feedback.
• 23:47 — Empowering employees to solve their own problems.
• 27:39 — The importance of resisting the urge to solve everything.
• 29:44 — The power of focused, undivided attention.
• 31:37–39:34 — Live demo: Two-minute listening exercise and reflection.
• 41:28 — The case for adding a management structure.
• 42:35–44:48 — Checklist summary: key practical tips.

Radical Candor Checklist: Actionable Tips (42:35)

1. Implement an Ideas Team
   • Create a process (digital or physical) for collecting and prioritizing suggestions from all staff.
   • Ensure the team communicates why some ideas are pursued and others are not.
2. Walk the Floor Regularly
   • Use informal time in the workspace to connect, build trust, and spot issues.
   • Demonstrate genuine curiosity and care.
3. Be Fully Present in One-on-Ones
   • Even if brief or in nontraditional spaces, maintain focus and show respect for your direct report’s time.
4. Push for Smarter Structures
   • If possible, advocate for fewer direct reports per manager by adding (even temporary) team leads or supervisors.

Tone & Takeaways

The episode is filled with candor, empathy, and practical wisdom. Kim and Amy blend frankness (“you cannot manage 50 people in the way I recommend...”) with encouragement, making it clear that while relationships may not scale, good systems and a strong culture can go a long way. They champion listening, intentional presence, and empowering teams to own solutions, all while acknowledging the real-world messiness of leadership at scale.