Radical Candor Podcast: "Why We All Need a Curiosity Check" with Jeff Wetzler

Hosts: Kim Scott | Guest: Jeff Wetzler
Date: November 19, 2025
Episode: 7 | 41

Episode Overview

In this episode, Kim Scott welcomes Jeff Wetzler, author of Ask, to discuss his widely shared article about preparing for high-stakes workplace conversations. Together, they unpack what it truly means to prepare—not by hardening positions, but by tuning into the essential mindset of curiosity. The conversation explores the spectrum of curiosity, practical steps for cultivating it, and the integral relationship between curiosity and Radical Candor. The episode presents a lively, practical, and personal roadmap for anyone wishing to communicate and lead more effectively at work.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Inspiration Behind the "Curiosity Check" (01:22–03:36)

• Jeff shares his inspiration: High-stakes professions have checklists for safety; why don’t we do the same for conversations?
• Conventional preparation is often about "arming" ourselves with data, not about opening to others.
• The curiosity check is about ensuring genuine openness before engaging.
  • Quote:

    "Quite often, we forget the most important check, which is to check how curious we are going into the conversation." — Jeff (02:37)

Over-Preparation & Its Pitfalls (02:50–03:41)

• Kim reflects: Over-preparing can turn conversations into monologues.
• Jeff clarifies: It’s not how much you prepare, but how you prepare.
  • Quote:

    "It's not so much the volume of preparation, but the nature of the preparation." — Jeff (03:19)

The Arc of Curiosity Model (03:41–11:32)

• Step 1: Notice your current level of curiosity; everyone is somewhere on the “arc.”

• The Arc of Curiosity:

  • Self Righteous Disdain: “They’re bad or wrong, and I can’t stand them.” (04:22)
  • Confident Dismissal: “I’m right, they’re wrong. I won't consider their perspective.” (06:16)
  • Skeptical Tolerance: “I doubt them, but I’ll hear them out.” (07:55)
  • Cautious Openness: “Maybe they have a point worth finding out.” (09:17)
  • Genuine Interest: “I genuinely want to understand their views, even if I disagree.” (10:16)
  • Fascinated Wonder: “I’m fascinated, and there’s so much I want to learn from them.” (10:46)

• Most of us sit in the “Zones of Certainty” (Self Righteous Disdain, Confident Dismissal, Skeptical Tolerance), especially in high-stakes conversations.

• Just moving one step up the arc can open up conversations significantly.

  • Memorable exchange:

    "I feel like we are in the era of self righteous disdain. I feel like there's something about social media." — Kim (04:47)
    "The more that we surround ourselves with people who tell us we're right, the more self righteous we feel." — Jeff (05:00)

The Value of Changing Your Mind (11:32–13:45)

• Fascinated Wonder is rare but exhilarating; the goal isn’t to always reach it, but to aim for progress up the curve.

• Kim offers a parenting example—making a big deal when her teenage twins change her mind, to encourage engagement and openness in her family.

  • Quote:

    "Now that you have a word for it, like when you change your mind about something profound…that is an exciting and cool experience." — Kim (11:32)

The Three Steps of a Curiosity Check (13:45–14:04)

1. Notice where you are on the arc.
2. Decide where you want to be.
3. Choose methods to move yourself up the arc.

Methods for Moving Up the Arc of Curiosity (14:05–26:26)

Head-Based (Intellectual):

• Ask:
  • "What story am I telling myself about this person?"
  • "What information might I be missing?"
  • Use AI as a thought partner to challenge your perspective.
• Reference to John Stuart Mill’s advice: Even if you’re certain, debating with those who disagree is valuable.
  • Quote:

    "A belief that goes unchallenged becomes a prejudice." — Kim, paraphrasing Mill (15:31)

Heart-Based (Emotional):

• Empathize: Connect to the other’s humanity (“Just like me…” exercises, visualization, or meditation).
  • Example:

    "Inhale curiosity, exhale connection." — Kim, on her meditation practice during a workplace conflict (23:06)

• Elevate: Recognize and explore your own frustration or confusion as a window to curiosity.

Hands-Based (Actionable):

• Enlist: Seek help from others (colleagues, mentors, or AI) to uncover what you might miss.
• Experiment: Act “as if” you’re more curious than you are (e.g., restate the other’s argument before presenting your own).
• Exhale: Use breathing or physical cues to calm your nervous system and enable curiosity.

Practical Experiments & Role Models (26:26–34:09)

• Practical experiment: Try restating the other person’s position before making your own case ("the Rogerian argument").

• Share the downsides of your own recommendations to demonstrate genuine consideration.

• Countercultural move: Presenting with curiosity, not certainty, leads to better influence.

  • Quote:

    "The more curiosity we present with, the more they are open to influence by us." — Jeff (28:42)

• Leaders should be explicit about their certainty levels; faux openness wastes everyone’s time.

  • Example:

    "One of the worst things that I think leaders sometimes fall into is having a clear agenda but acting as if they don’t." — Jeff (30:46)

Curiosity, Influence, and Power Dynamics (33:08–40:32)

• Ask others to share how certain they are about a decision on a scale (e.g., 1–10).
• Help leaders clarify whether they’re open to influence or not, saving time and energy.
• Use numbers to help both parties understand where a genuine conversation can happen.
• Openly discuss the underlying conditions that must be true to change someone’s mind.
• Sometimes confidence is just being measured by how you "stand your ground," so surface those expectations early.

Curiosity & Radical Candor (40:33–44:31)

• Curiosity and candor are inseparable: You must care about what others think for your candor to be effective.

• Curiosity helps manage defensiveness—both when soliciting and receiving feedback.

• Aim for “fascinated wonder” even if you disagree, as you may find valuable nuggets of truth.

  • Quote:

    "Curiosity itself is an act of care. That can be part of caring personally." — Jeff (44:13)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Curiosity is not binary. It’s not just I’m curious or not curious…Can you move a notch up? That can feel more digestible and realistic than just to say, get curious.” — Jeff (18:33)
• "Praise really let me know what to do more of, because I felt like I had failed, when in fact I had done the right thing.” — Kim (28:58)
• "We’re trained to sound more certain than we are. We get rewarded for sounding more certain than we are.” — Kim (33:39)
• “Get curious, not furious!” — Kim, on responding to criticism (43:42)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:22] — Jeff’s article & the ‘curiosity check’ idea
• [03:41] — The Arc of Curiosity explained
• [09:17] — Moving from certainty to curiosity
• [13:45] — The three-step curiosity check
• [14:05–21:43] — Techniques for cultivating curiosity (head-based, heart-based, hands-based)
• [26:26] — Practical experiments and behaviors
• [30:46] — Authentic leadership and transparency in agendas
• [33:08] — Using numbers/clarity to align conversations
• [40:33] — Connection between curiosity and Radical Candor
• [44:13] — Closing thoughts on curiosity as care

Recap & Takeaways

• The Curiosity Check transforms conversational preparation from defensive to open, enabling deeper, constructive dialogue.
• Everyone sits somewhere on the Arc of Curiosity—from self-righteousness to fascinated wonder. Progress matters more than perfection.
• Practical head, heart, and hands strategies can intentionally upshift curiosity in high-stakes or everyday discussions.
• In both feedback and leadership, curiosity isn’t just a nicety—it’s vital for candor, growth, and connection.

Final Word

Kim Scott:

"If there's one thing I hope that everybody takes away from today, it's the power of shifting from certainty to curiosity." (44:59)

Links Mentioned:

• Jeff’s article in Harvard Business Review
• Ask by Jeff Wetzler
• Radical Candor by Kim Scott

For anyone looking to improve their leadership, conversational skills, or team culture, this episode offers a vibrant roadmap to replacing certainty with curiosity—step by step, click by click, question by question.