Paul Morris (3:18)

So joined today with Jason Morrison and awesome to get you in to talk about a key part of wealth development and that's buying your first home or buying your second home. You really gotta have the right credit and the right loan first. Tell me a bit about yourself because you got a lot of knowledge on this.

Jason Morrison (3:35)

Yeah. Jason Morrison. I am the executive vice president at Rocket Mortgage. I've been with Rocket for 19 years.

Paul Morris (3:41)

Wow.

Jason Morrison (3:41)

And been in consumer facing lending the entire time. So I've seen not only a lot of different mortgage situations and credit situations, but obviously a lot of different markets. And you know, we're in a very unique market right now.

Paul Morris (3:53)

I've made a decision. I'm going to buy a house. What are the first steps I should do?

Jason Morrison (3:57)

Whether it's finding a real estate agent professional that you can lean into to help you on that experience or finding a lender first, I think you need both equally. And if you can find them together, that's the ultimate marriage past doing that. I think it's really finding a budget that's going to be critical. Only you know how much you can afford on a monthly basis. And you know, I think defining the budget first will then allow you to find what the house is going to be. In my opinion, you start with the payment first, then work towards figuring out what the budget imbalances past that.

Paul Morris (4:25)

And what about down payment? Do you think like, hey, what's the payment I can afford and how much money can I put together for a down payment?

Jason Morrison (4:31)

Yeah. And listen, here's the thing. The government has never been more focused on trying to create affordable housing options. I mean, there are programs out there with as little as 3% down. As a matter of fact, Rocket has a product that's available for folks where there's a grant that can come to you to help you put down as little as 1% out of your pocket. And I think the old school train of thought is I need to put 20% down. Well, what are you putting the 20% down for? Are you doing it because you want a certain payment and if that's the case, put the 20% down. But if you're doing it because you just Think that's the best lending option is putting 20% down. I think you want to educate yourself on all the various options out there because there are a lot of products that are just as favorable with less down.

Paul Morris (5:05)

Yeah, sometimes we get surprises when we don't know our own credit. Do we go to a lender first and have the lender help us look at the credit, or.

Jason Morrison (5:14)

Yeah, I think six months before you're looking to buy, you should get your credit pulled. I mean, ultimately, you can go through all the different FICO sites that are out there, pull a free copy of your credit report. As a matter of fact, most lenders, even if you're six months a year out, will still have that initial conversation with you and just let you know what you're standing. But you don't want to have your credit pulled right before you're about to go buy a home, because ultimately, at that point, what if you need to fix something? You're not going to have the time to do it. So my suggestion would be six months prior to engaging on looking, just go out, get a copy of your credit report, see what your situation is, get a real indication of where your budget is, where your FICO scores are. So that way you can intelligently speak about what type of buyer you're gonna be.

Paul Morris (5:52)

And you know what? I think it might be a great idea for everybody listening to the podcast to go out and pull their credit, because even sometimes I'll find a surprise on there. There could be somebody on there that doesn't belong to you. It takes a little while to fix that. Now's a great time. Get your credit, figure out what it is, where you stand, and how you can improve it. I think it can be fairly common that thinks that a loan is a loan is a loan. So I just need to find the lowest, you know, I'm gonna borrow $250,000. Would I not go for the absolute least expensive option?

Jason Morrison (6:22)

Yeah, I think shopping for a mortgage rate is a lot like shopping for gas. By the time you find the cheapest gas, you're going to run out of gas and be walking. What I've found over history is that majority of the time the cheapest is because something is hidden. It's either a, they're putting you in a spot where they're not taking into account all the necessary responsibilities that will be there at close. The thing that they're banking on in that situation is that you as a consumer will be strong, so vested 20, 25 days in that even if they surprise you, with one or two things, you may be frustrated, but you're probably going to still stick it through when you could have just locked down with someone that's driven through integrity from the very beginning. Maybe it's a little bit more than what others are telling you, but it'll be the same thing at the end. I personally don't want to surprise when I'm going to buy my largest asset. So from a philosophical standpoint, there's two types of loan officers. There's transactional loan officers and relationship loan officers. Every loan I ever wrote, I wrote it with the intentions of thinking that I going to get five more loans from it. Those five could be either return transactions, think about a market like the one we're in right now. Any loan you get, you're probably going to want to refinance it again down the road because rates are where they are. Or I'm going to get referrals because of the fact that you had a great experience, now you're going to tell people from it, or you're going to buy another home at some point one day. It's just inevitable. And you're going to use me again because you had a good experience. So for me, I am a relationship loan officer. The transactional one is the one that just says, I'm going to do whatever I can to get this one to close and I'm going to get a paycheck. If I never hear from you and I don't get it, at the end of the year, I'll be in a more favorable spot than you will.

Paul Morris (7:51)

Right. That makes sense. That really does. Do you have any advice for people that. I feel like I can never read the market, but I do find buyers that are on the sidelines saying, well, you know, interest rates were less before that. We can say for sure. We can't say for sure where they're going. You know, I'm going to wait it out.

Jason Morrison (8:09)

Yeah. I think that over time, I've consistently heard people say, I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait. The only people I know that get paid to wait are waiters. And at the end of the day, that philosophy fee consistently puts you behind the ball. Everyone has the thought process, buy low, sell high. That's of course, I mean, that's anything in life you want that. What you really want to try to do is buy value and maintain value. Because in maintaining value now you're in a spot where you can have equitable gain over the course of the period of time. So let's just look at the market we're in right now. Yes, our home interest rates higher. Absolutely. But the other thing is that values are still consistently appreciating. So an asset that you acquire right now, though it may be more expensive month to month, you're at least gathering an asset that allows you to still appreciate. And it's not like it's your last loan if it's with inside of your budget. Then don't let the interest rate be a deterrent from making a great sound financial decision. Cause let's go on the opposite side. Let's say we go to a place that rates start to drop, but then home values are dropping too, then that makes no sense for you to buy because now ultimately you're buying a house that you're losing from day one. Yeah, you got a good interest rate, but what does that matter?

Paul Morris (9:14)

Correct. One of my best home purchases was right before the market tanked in 2008. And so it's the worst possible time to buy. If I knew that was going to happen. If course I would have waited six months because my particular home dropped about 30% in value within six months after purchasing. Over time because it was a value add and I did the right things, turns out to be one of the best financial decisions that I made. The particular deal that you're doing is so much more important than are the interest rates right now or where's the market right now? Because I can tell you for sure, when you buy at the bottom of the market or interest rates are right, you can still make the wrong purchase. There's no question about it.

Jason Morrison (9:53)

But you also got to ask yourself, what type of investor are you? There's short term investors and there's long term investors. There's people who play the stock market, there's people who invest in long term security planning. Both are very savvy people. But you can't go into a home and say I plan on being here forever but then are worried about where rates are today. Yes, if the rates are today is an affordability question. I understand that. Then buy a cheaper home. If where the rates are today is simply just a question of am I going to have to be in that forever? Let me give you a news flash. No, you're not. Rates are cyclical. They're going to be in a spot where they're going to go up, they're going to be in a spot where they're going to go down. And during that period, if you're saying you're going to be there forever. There will be points where you can finally secure your forever loan. But right now what we try to do is get people in there for now loan. This is the one that can get you in the house that you want and start to build long term equity.

Paul Morris (10:39)

I love it. Thanks so much for that insight. I really appreciate it.

Jason Morrison (10:42)

Yeah, I mean, it's been a life. I grew up in the inner city of Detroit, born and raised my whole life area called the west side. For those that are not familiar out there on the podcast and growing up there, there wasn't a lot of options and most of options that you could choose were probably not the right ones. Yeah. So being in the place that you can be influenced by a lot of outside sources, I chose the wrong path in a lot of them. They separated some loss as a kid. You know, I lost my father at a young age and it was in a, a pretty violent way. So it got me to a place where it forced some, some poor decisions on my part. And you know, they say that every life has its crossroads. You can pick a direction. One of my crossroads is I actually got sent away to a military school. And so I went to a military school, which pretty much got me to teach learning structure to understand diversity. You know, where I grew up in Detroit, pretty much everybody just looked like me, which was a hard 360 change once you get into life right now. But at that point, I pretty much only knew how to relate to one class of people from an economic and social standpoint. So going to military school, you're surrounded by a little bit of everybody. And so it gave me an opportunity to become independent, forward thinker and put some much needed structure in my life past that. When I got out of school, the game plan. I played sports when I was in high school and I had a full ride to go play football at the University of Virginia. My junior year of high school, I tore a few ligaments in my knee and ended up losing my scholarship. So that was a pretty heavy road from university standpoint because I didn't have the grades to really take care of college and we didn't have the financials. So sports was going to be really the only method. So when I did graduate, I ended up just coming back home, went to community college for a few months and then my mom got sick. Inside of her getting sick, I had to jump in the workforce pretty quickly to help support and take care of them. And that's what brought me to Best Buy.

Paul Morris (12:23)

Right. I Remember that? How old were you when you went to military school?

Jason Morrison (12:26)

I went there at age 16, so I was going out of my sophomore into my junior year. So I did junior and senior year in military school.

Paul Morris (12:34)

Yeah, you said independent thinker, but I think military school. I think straight line, but.

Jason Morrison (12:40)

Well, what was nice was that your independence was strips in terms of structure, but your independence was developed in terms of what you make out of it. You know, like you can go into that path and pretty much stay down the path of either. I'm going to maintain structure and keep going through the military. I'm going to go through this and still remain rebellious and kind of do my own path when I get out of there, or I can embrace this opportunity, leech into the relationships and the learnings, and use it to take me to a different place in life. And that's kind of the path I took.

Paul Morris (13:05)

And at only age 18, how do you take all that great structure you picked up? Now you go home, community college, mom's not doing well, sounds like zero structure.

Jason Morrison (13:16)

It was tough. It was a hard reset. Plus, you got to remember, I'm going back to having those influencers back in my life again. You know, a lot of the people I grew up with immediately, once I came back home, wanted to kind of pull me back into that life. Now what was nice is I really kind of dove headfirst into the Best Buy world. I moved up pretty quickly there. Started off as just a sales associate, ended up moving up to being a sales manager there in a very quick timeframe. And so because of that, I didn't have a lot of time for distractions. I got an apartment outside the city to get away from kind of the inward focus relationships and really kind of distance myself from the people that I grew up with. Then one Saturday afternoon, as I told you, I kind of got a little lucky. Sold a TV to the right guy, and that's when he told me I'd be a good fit for what at the time was Quicken Loans.

Paul Morris (13:58)

Right. And it wasn't just the tv, right?

Jason Morrison (14:02)

Yeah. It's funny because nowadays you can walk into a Walmart, pick up a 50 inch television set for 400 bucks, but back then a 50 inch plasma was running for about $10,000. And so we had never sold one at Best Buy. Mine ended up being the first sell in the history of the company. And the guy actually came in looking for a microwave and left with a $20,000 electronics package. So I feel like I was always blessed with the gift of gab. Growing up, that was probably what got me in. Most of my trouble was my mouth. And I had the ability to really influence crowds. I was always kind of the leader in a lot of circumstances. And really when I got into mortgages, it was just a different type of sale. What remained true is that people buy an emotion and I always had an ability to uncover what the emotional need was from the person and then how I can connect that emotion to whatever experience I was selling. And so there was of course, training, but it really latched on incredibly quickly from the moment I started. We used to have this thing that we called onboarding week or hack week. I can't even remember, it's been so long ago, where the goal was to acquire one client during the first live sales event. And my first day I acquired three. And it's so just like from the immediate time, I didn't know mortgages, I didn't know finance, but what I knew is how to talk to people. And that's always something that came natural.

Paul Morris (15:11)

So you meet somebody, somebody says, wow, this kid has talent. Then you go into a sales training program and then what's your ascent through Quicken?

Jason Morrison (15:19)

Yeah, so when I first came in, there's kind of a couple different paths. You can go inside of Rocket, you can go down the leadership path, which is a journey that we always talk about. And then obviously you can develop yourself as a self sourced producer where you basically, you know, you're your own motor and you continue to work up the ranks. And as a producer and a performer in the organization, from day one, I knew I wanted to be a leader. I just, I loved teaching people how to do what I could do because for me it got to a point where it became so easy to do the sale portion of it. The way I work when something's too easy, I tend to get a little lazy at times. And I knew that long term if I continued down that path, I may make some mistakes. And so the best way to prevent myself from making mistakes is to put me in something that always makes me a little uncomfortable. Leadership is something, as you know, as a leader of many people every day there's a certain point where you're gonna face a level of discomfort that you gotta adapt your way through. Yeah.

Jason Morrison (16:12)

So you're about to make a trade based on a friend's text, but which you do you listen to, is it.

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Jason Morrison (16:27)

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Jason Morrison (17:11)

Yeah, so I stepped right in. I started mentoring someone from pretty much the beginning of my career and where I got a little lucky because in life, that's what it comes down to. I mean, think about yourself leaving Pennsylvania, coming out here to the wonderful place of Beverly Hills. I got lucky. We drafted a guy by the name of LeBron James, a decent basketball player. And when we did that, we decided that we wanted to open an office in Cleveland. And I was asked to move to Cleveland to help open that office. And so that kind of was that tipping point of my career where the responsibility really started to elevate as I started to staff and help build out that office in Cleveland.

Paul Morris (17:43)

That's interesting. So their sort of side purchase of Cleveland Cavaliers, which a lot of us think about like, oh, is this an ego play from an owner that somebody that's made a lot of money now, you know, I want a sports team, but they're actually building a business around that. So there's a whole business plan around that. And then when they got great traction in Cleveland, they say, we're going to do more in Cleveland.

Jason Morrison (18:07)

Yeah, you know, we always have had a more than profit philosophy, but the thought is like, look, if we're going to own what really is one of the largest sports franchises in the state of Ohio, we're not going to not contribute to its economy in a different fashion. So the thought is, how do we bring jobs to Ohio? And we're a mortgage company, so let's bring a mortgage company to Ohio. And so we ended up setting up shop about a block and a half away from the stadium and started to build the local economy and introduce jobs that otherwise they didn't really have out there. I mean, there was no big mortgage footprint outside of banks in Cleveland when we moved out there.

Paul Morris (18:39)

You mentioned luck a couple of times and there's an easy quote. You might have to help me with it because I can't remember it exactly, but it's like luck is the intersection of hard work and opportunity. And opportunity. That's what I thought it was.

Jason Morrison (18:50)

So one of My great friends as well as kind of my primary business partner. I'm guilty of being a huge optimist. That's just how I go about life. I'm super glasses full. I mean, that's just me at all times almost. It could be to a fault. And I think when you live in optimistic fashion, you do kind of have a self belief that everything happens for a reason and the universe is going to take over and provide great opportunity. So when I say term luck, it could be a matter of me doing the right things, which open up the right doors, or there could be a greater force in play that says, hey, you're at a stage in your life where you're ready for this relationship. You know, I think about the bond that you and I have got a chance to build inside the last 30 days and really that is a little bit luck. If not for luck, we would have never got a chance to sit down. But through that opportunity, it creates a long lasting friendship and business relationship that I would otherwise not have the opportunity to get. So I do think I'm a little lucky.

Paul Morris (19:38)

Right. There's evidence for every conclusion out in the world. So if you start out with the world is out to get me, you're going to go out and find that one of the chapters I wrote in my book was the world is out to help me. And that's just putting a spin on that. And by the way, I think both are true. You know, the world, you go out, you're going to have hard knocks, that sort of thing. You're looking for that hard knock to happen. You're going to find really is sort of hard work that gets you to have these chances. And then when you talk about building our relations like we can see each other across the room in a way, it's a vibe. Yeah, it's like, okay, I get that guy and there's something more to explore and then that's the beginning of that. But it takes you that journey to get where you are. And me the journey to get where I am in order for us to get in the same room.

Jason Morrison (20:26)

That's right. You know, and I think, listen, I think that having a clear why always helps. You know, I always tell people, like, know your why or the what's going to kill you. And so for me, I've never been distracted by the what cause I've always had a consistent why. When I first came into kind of the corporate world, my why was to prove myself. You know, I mean, I knew I had a disadvantage. I was not Formally educated past high school, I came from an inner city background. I was in a spot where I didn't have the family makeup to have any connections. It was pretty much, hey, I gotta prove it then. As that time went along, I was blessed enough to start a family. And instead of doing that, my wife became really clear. I don't want my family to have to go through what I had to go through to get to where I got to. So. So because of that, those short term speed bumps or road blocks or plot holes never really knocked me off the road. It became very easy to keep going forward because I knew there was something more important that I was chasing after.

Paul Morris (21:16)

Right. And so you get that little bit longer term vision, connect with your why and that takes you right through the speed bump.

Jason Morrison (21:22)

That's right. I mean, if you draw a circle on the paper and you just throw in the middle of the circle yourself and then outside put all the different various things that you believe are your wise, what you'll find very quickly is that if those outside things are what's, they're so far outside of your control that you'll never be able to go after them. If I say I'm in the circle and I want to go get a promotion, well, I can't control when someone's going to promote me. But if the outside circle says I'm going to make my wife proud of me today, I can control that and I can control that action and I can keep doing those things, build my circle bigger and then eventually those what's will just get absorbed in the circle.

Paul Morris (21:54)

And one of the things you said is know your why or know what's going to kill you. Yeah, so tell me about that.

Jason Morrison (22:00)

Yeah, I just, I watch people. I mean, obviously I've been a study for people now for years in this trade. And I can't tell you how many people go into something with the outcome in mind. First, it's like I want to be rich. Okay, so what does that look like? What is wealth really? And how do you really determine what that wealth truly is? For me, as I turned 40 and I was telling you last night at dinner, wealth for me is defined a little bit differently now in this stage in life. Wealth is my own health and wellness. Wealth is my mental growth. Wealth is my children. And obviously economically I want to continue to grow. But the what is something that's so ever changing. Think about something that you really thought you wanted and then you got it and then you were over it. And so it's so easy when you're trying to chase after just a milestone to, now that you've accomplished that milestone, to overlook it. That's why I always just look past the milestones and focus more on just making sure I'm always on the track for the why.

Paul Morris (22:54)

Another thing that you mentioned is you can't control whether somebody's going to promote you or not. It's a fascinating question for me because I feel like the opportunities that I've had, I have somehow, I don't know how else to say it, control freaked it or got in and around it and really sought out the positions. And other people that I've interviewed are like, oh, I stick my nose to the grindstone and I wait for somebody to tap me on the shoulder. I think those are like two total opposites. Where are you on that scale? Are you. You're working hard for sure, but are you waiting for them to tap you on the shoulder or are you going out and saying, hey, I'm interested in this position?

Jason Morrison (23:30)

What's so funny? Because I think in life, your position on that changes throughout life. I think for a long period of time, my philosophy was, put my head down and I'll get noticed. If I work harder than everybody else, someone's going to take notice of that. Hard work and opportunity is going to present itself. As I've gotten a little bit more mature in my career, I know that you do have to be an advocate for yourself. You have to self advocate. And so I would say I'm a mixture of both. I will do hard work, but I'm not going to not advocate for opportunity. I'm not going to let let you know that I feel like I can contribute maybe a little bit differently. I won't even say better than the person that's currently contributing, but I will consistently advocate because I think it's necessary that people do know that elevation is important. If you're not consistently saying, I want to elevate, then people may think you're comfortable. And I never want to be confused for comfortable.

Paul Morris (24:15)

Yeah. And I think a great script for that could be, hey, I'm interested in, at some point in time being CEO of this company. So what would it look like? What would it take? And that's a great question, I think, for a mentor. And it also plants the seed in their mind of, huh, interesting. You know, they might see you in that position and then it might lend to them advocating for you. Naturally.

Jason Morrison (24:38)

Yeah. I'll tell you, people don't want to do what you just asked because it actually takes Courageous authenticity. And the reason why is because the moment you start making people aware of your goals, the moment that people are then going to ask you how you're progressing towards those goals, there's nothing that puts a greater spotlight on you than the moment you say, I want to grow. If I say, hey, my plan is to lose weight, and if you really care about me, the next time you see me, you're going to say, hey, how's the weight loss going?

Paul Morris (25:00)

Sure.

Jason Morrison (25:00)

If I can't answer that and say, hey, it's going well, then at that point I'm letting you down. So what's the safest thing for me to do? Not tell you I'm trying to lose weight. And then hopefully one day I'll walk by and you're like, man, you're looking thin now. I got it. But, but imagine how much better I've been with that extra layer of pressure. It's the same thing in the business world.

Paul Morris (25:16)

And one of the things I see people do is they'll come to me and they'll say, hey, I want to talk about the next opportunity and the first thing. And it creates that pressure. The first thing that I do when somebody says, hey, I want that next opportunity is immediately spotlight on what are you doing right now with your current opportunity. And it's amazing. You really do get both sides of it. So you and I are both hard workers, so we're not going to have that issue. You and I are both self advocates, so you're not going to have that issue. But there are people that are working hard, not self advocating. And then there are the ones that are self advocating but not doing the hard work underneath.

Jason Morrison (25:52)

Yeah. Mary Barra, who is the CEO of General Motors, she made a quote that she's been famous for and she actually got it from her original mentor, which says, do the job that you're in right now as if you'll die doing that job. And if you do, you're going to give it your best each and every single day. That does not mean that you should not want more. But no one should ever be able to walk by your current job and feel as if you're not giving all you got to that particular opportunity and you're not loving it as if it's the last opportunity you have. I think that sometimes even myself in the younger days of my career, I always was thinking about what was the next step. And it's good to be a forward thinker because that typically means you're going to lead level one, level up but it can also become a distraction if you're so focused on what's the next step that you forget about the step you're on right now.

Paul Morris (26:38)

I was asked for life lessons, and one of the ones I included was from my mom. And she would say something very similar to that, which is, whatever job you're doing, do it to the absolute best of your ability. And I would laugh because when I would give that advice, I'd say, that was my mom's advice. But I didn't follow it. I didn't follow it because if I wasn't in a job that I loved or I didn't see the next position as something that I really loved, it was very hard for me to give it my all. When I was a lawyer, I was really stuck in a what do I need to do to survive? Like, how little could I do to not get fired? Because I knew that I didn't want to get fired, but I also knew that I did not want to go from junior associate to senior associate to even partner in the firm. I need a place with better growth or opportunity.

Jason Morrison (27:20)

Knowing you, how I know you, I could have never pegged you sitting in an office doing litigation between a couple of different parties. It's just not your style. I think with you, you are someone that I believe wants the end user to find happiness. Like, I genuinely believe that that's in there, regardless of what the economic benefits into it. I think you genuinely want to walk away knowing they enjoy that experience and that there's something greater going to happen in their life that way. You found your passion for finding the ability to help people is what now drives you to be passionate about what you do. And I think that's what was for me with Best Buy. My ultimate happiness was just selling. I loved communication. I love talking to people. I loved getting people to a place that I can build up their confidence and inside of integrity, help them make what may have been a tough choice. Maybe either make it a little easier for them by making them understand it more, or just giving them the confidence to know that they can go ahead and do it. And so Best Buy was just a similar sale as what I do now. It's just a different product. And so I got lucky that I knew communication was going to be my passion. You need to figure out ultimately what is the outcome that gives you the most joy. The journey along the way is going to be hard. Thinking about going to the gym, there's no time. I feel like anybody walks in the gym and starts going and feels like, damn, this is awesome. You know, that's the progress. But when you leave, there's no better feeling than when the sweat's dripping and you know, you just did a great workout for you yourself and everything else. So it's like, okay, I want to know what is the end? What's that Dopamine at the very end that will give me my highest level of sensation. You better pick a career path that puts you there, because whatever is going to be your career, you're be doing for a long time.

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Paul Morris (29:58)

So I got a couple of really great points from that, and one I think is if you're doing something you're passionate about, your productivity level is just going to be naturally, three, four, five times as much. Conversely, you can do something you're not passionate about and still have great output. But that is soul sucking. It just takes the energy away from you. You can figure this stuff out when you think about doing like, I think I can do anything at a high level for a short amount of time, but what's this going to look like two or three years from now? And you get into your passion zone and that's where you'll really be so much more productive. And that's where I see sort of lives wasted is, oh, you know, I do a job just to do the job and then I go home and, you know, the weekends. And for me there's like no weekend, there's no separation because I love what I do.

Jason Morrison (30:41)

Yeah, I was Talking to Val last night, because what you're basically saying is, like, if you aren't passionate, you're vulnerable. You're vulnerable to outside sources preventing you or derailing you or distracting you and preventing you from going down the path you want to go. Val was telling me her path to becoming a vegan, and as she was talking to me, passionate about it, it inspired me because I'm just thinking to myself, there are people out there that maybe try to go down that path, but because they're not passionate about that path, they can easily be distracted away from it. She's like, look, you can eat anything you want next to me. It doesn't offend me because I'm on my path and you're on your path. And I love to hear that, because that means that she's not vulnerable to outside sources. And it's inspiring when you see people like that. But that, like you said, it doesn't matter what you're doing. If you are passionate about what you're doing, you're not going to get derailed.

Paul Morris (31:28)

It's interesting because we talked originally about you being in the inner city with some influences that were not as good. And again, similarly, back to food. It's like when I'm fasting, people will be like, oh, maybe I shouldn't eat around you. But when I have that purpose, you could eat right in front of me.

Jason Morrison (31:41)

It doesn't matter.

Paul Morris (31:42)

No, yeah. It's no issue. And that's how you really know when you're in the zone.

Jason Morrison (31:45)

That's right.

Paul Morris (31:46)

And another thing you just mentioned working out to, like, oh, I go into the gym. You know, who loves being in the gym? Maybe there's somebody, but it's not you. It's not the two of us. So I get that. Who loves being in the gym? But we love what happens after. One of the things that I find is that if you take that out into the workplace, I operate best when there's train tracks and structure, and especially when I have a deadline looming. When you talk to salespeople, a lot of them are independent. How do you get that structure? How do you communicate that structure to keep somebody on that path? So it's like, back to the gym. I'm a disaster at the gym because I do one set, and then I'm like, oh, well, I'm gonna do this in my mind. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna do that. And then, oh, I'm gonna have a spicy tuna roll. And then 15 minutes later, I'm like, I'm out. But the train tracks. Maybe a personal trainer would be an example or a crowd watching you if you could have that.

Jason Morrison (32:41)

So what I've always tried to do when coaching younger salespeople or people that are coming in, and this is just from experience, I know what worked well for me. A lot of salespeople determine their success based off of one thing. It's sales. The amount of sales I do means I'm successful. The problem is that if you look at each and every single day, take some of your greatest salespeople in the country, out of every 100 opportunities they get, they'll typically maybe originate one or two of those opportunities. So you're batting caught 10, 20% of the time. That means the other 80, 90% of the time you're being told no. So those are gonna happen. But if the only way you determine if I was successful is chasing after that 10 or 20%, that's gonna be tough. So what I try to do is say, what can we accomplish each and every single day that maybe might not be the sale, but also shows you're growing? I believe that if I'm always getting better, if I'm always helping someone, if I'm always putting in max effort, that also is an accomplishment. And so what I'll try to do for people is identify what are some additional layers that we can say good job. And then I've gotta make sure I'm doing a good job telling them them the good job. Because sometimes as the leader, I'm doing the same thing. I'm guilty of only patting them on the back when they get to that in sale as well. I need to recognize those same milestones I'm trying to establish. So let's say I was working with you. I say, you know, Paul, here's the deal. Let's set three goals for ourselves. Of course I want the sale. But every day, let's make an agreement that you're going to learn something. Every day, let's make an agreement that you're going to give me 100% effort, you're going to try as hard as you can, and every single day you're going to help somebody else on the team. You're going to help a consumer by providing them with good, sound advice. But no matter what, you're going to leave. Knowing that you carried someone's groceries today is the feeling you're going to give. And then when I check out with them at the end of the night, I say, okay, walk me through. Did you give me 100% today? Well, you know, that's 100% under your control, so there should be no excuses for that. Walk me through what you learned today. Okay, great. That was awesome. And then lastly, who did you help? Who'd you give advice to? Who did you make fellow? Now you've done those three things. My last question is, did you end up getting a client? If the answer is no, you think about, okay, so you did three great things. And the one other thing that's missing, no big deal. But imagine we erase all of that and you're walking out. I say, hey, Paul, did you get a client today? Your answer's no.

Paul Morris (34:48)

No.

Jason Morrison (34:49)

How are you going to feel coming back that next day? Sales is a snowball. It can start off as a snowflake, but it can become an avalanche if you build momentum. And I think that's what allowed me to have this confidence over the years is it's literally been a snowball turning into an avalanche. But that's because at the very beginning, I took those small snowflakes and made sure I recognize those along the way.

Paul Morris (35:10)

Right. But I love it. And also, you're taking the focus in a way outside of them as well. So the, hey, did you give me great effort? Did you learn something? You know, yeah, that's true. That's about them. But who did you help today? Now you're really tapping into different parts again. You're tapping into the emotion. And then I don't feel bad if I'm like, you know what? Actually, I did give 100% today. You know, I did learn something, and I helped some people out. But no, I didn't get a sale. I don't feel so bad. Conversely, I could have a day where in salespeople, we have this all the time. You know, I have it all the time. Like, I look back and go, huh?

Jason Morrison (35:42)

You know what?

Paul Morris (35:43)

I give, like 50% effort today. Maybe I didn't learn anything today, but, you know, I accomplished three great things. I'm ready to pat myself on the back. But wouldn't it be better over the long run if I was given that 100% effort? I was making sure I was learning something. I was making sure I helped somebody, and then those results will follow.

Jason Morrison (35:59)

I call what you just described the lotto syndrome. So think about the people who hit the lotto lottery and then end up broke. If you come into a day and you just stumble upon results, let's say you're just walking and all of a sudden you got three deals, but you didn't put any effort in here's what I can almost guarantee you. Tomorrow you will not be successful again. It's because you didn't do the necessary foundational things to create long term success. You got lucky. You hit the lotto one time, and if you don't appreciate the journey and the effort and the grind that goes into it, then you won't create longevity. It makes it so easy for that to go away.

Paul Morris (36:31)

Yep. And that's the allure of sales especially. You know, you talk about you're working mainly in loan originations, but in the home sales, especially in the area where I am, you can bump into a sale and make a whole bunch of money. And then people crawl back under their shell and they wonder why it's not happening again. That's the lotto syndrome, as you describe it, is just as big or bigger for realtors. Now, in an area where home prices are 2 or $300,000, you're not gonna make enough money on one sale that's gonna to float your boats. You really have to get more into that sales system. But I see it rampant in places that have higher price.

Jason Morrison (37:06)

100%. I was telling a buddy of mine who was an agent, he's like, hey, if you were in my space, what's one thing that you would do if you were me, Just some raw advice. I said, honestly, I'd take more pictures. And he said, what do you mean, take more pictures? I said, when I bring a family into a house, as they're walking around the house, of course with their permission, I'd be taking photos of that family in that house. And I'd come back to the car and show them and say, do you see yourself like I see you? Do you see the smiles in your face? Do you see how it looks, looked when you guys get in that room? Like, I want to be able to get them excited about the chapter they're going to go in. Because it's going to be hard. There's going to be offers that are going to go in. There's going to be negotiation. There's going to be the pain of wondering is it going to appraise? Like all that stuff is going to not be that enjoyable. So let's remember the moment at the beginning, though, that got you to a place to want this. It was these images. And I use it as a constant reminder to give them not only confidence, but patience with the process that we're about to go into. But we don't. What we do is we like to go into that space and we want to Just move fast. Okay, let me get you in the house. Let me get you to put an offer in, let me get it accepted, let me get it closed, and let me move on with my life. We can't take that approach. We got to pause for a second. You know, it's the term I always like to use around this is to be grateful but never satisfied. It's okay to not be satisfied, but you cannot forget to be grateful along the way.

Paul Morris (38:21)

Yeah, that's great. It's like hungry and humble. No matter what level you achieve without being grateful, it's almost a recipe for getting stuck at that point. But it was great advice on the sales process because it's a scary process to get into. And making a decision means that you can also make a mistake. And there's so many scary pieces to it, but you're really appealing to the emotion. It's not to shove somebody in a house they don't want to be in because they're not going to be running around smiling in that house.

Jason Morrison (38:50)

You're going to know quickly.

Paul Morris (38:51)

You're going to take the pictures. You're taking the pictures when they're smiling, they're enjoying it. You're like, hey, remember, this is what it could look like. This is what it could feel like. This is the future vision of that sale. That's what. Right. And then it takes those pieces away.

Jason Morrison (39:02)

Yeah. Every person that buys anything in life is buying off emotion. I don't believe. Yeah, as much as people may say I bought off a calculation, I truly believe that every purchase is emotional. You can make the choice not to do something. It is emotion that is saying, now is the time for me to take that step. Emotion, though, is dangerous because if you don't have control over your emotions, those can either hurt you negatively or they can impact you positively. I believe in being driven by positive emotion. And so if I can find the positive outcome in things, then I can help to make sure your emotions stay positive alongside of me. If I am focused on the negative outcome of things, then I will bring that negativity to your emotion, which will make you derail your confidence in making that buying decision.

Paul Morris (39:47)

It really is true. And even when you were saying it, I was thinking, well, actually, I'm a guy that really buys from calculation. Because even when I buy my own house, I'm thinking about. About how does this fit into my wealth plan? How does this fit into my growth? And I'm definitely calculating. And then when I thought back about really was the emotion, it was this sort of grand view that I was looking at. And now I'm trying to figure out, how am I going to make the calculation work to do?

Jason Morrison (40:12)

Because ultimately, listen, like, you wouldn't even have walked into the home to make that calculated purchase if emotion didn't tell you I see myself in this home. Absolutely. It's emotion that will start the process. Or even emotion telling you now's the time to buy. That's an emotional outcome that we sometimes forget about. It's emotion that triggers you to say, now I want to go buy a house. It's calculation that tells you I can afford to do it. It's calculation that tells you it's smart for me to do it. And it's even calculation that says that this is a smart investment for me to do it. But it's emotion that drives you to those calculations and then gives you the confidence to execute on those calculations.

Paul Morris (40:46)

I love it. So if we go, all right, fine, actually, Jason's got me. Here I am. I'm making these as business decisions, but actually he's got me. It's emotion. How do I make sure that I'm making the right decision with the emotion. Mix that calculation and emotion. How does that work?

Jason Morrison (41:03)

Yeah, well, I think it's a two part thing. I actually believe that it takes two parties to really make a good, sound decision. And the scary thing about it is a lot of salespeople are very II so internally motivated, internally focused, that they lose that external focus of what is it really doing for my client? Now, I can only speak from my own perspective, but what I try to do do is think, if the client was my mother, if the client was my sister, if the client was my best friend, what advice would I give them? And would I be courageous enough to say, this might be a little bit out of your league based upon the conversations that we're having and the advice you give. And you're taking a risk at that point. Because, listen, everybody wants to feel as if they know what they're doing, but it's very few people who actually do know what they're doing. So I do want to make sure that if I identify that, hey, this may be a little bit too much, that I'm courageous enough to know that I can get you emotionally excited about something that's not too much and that's a scary place to be in for a salesperson, because salespeople naturally like to be a little bit of a people pleaser.

Paul Morris (42:02)

Yeah. And also trying to make the sale because their income is tied to it. But Ultimately, I think, anyway, slamming somebody into a deal is just not ultimately going to serve you.

Jason Morrison (42:13)

You know what's more important than income? Reputation.

Paul Morris (42:16)

Yep.

Jason Morrison (42:17)

Because ultimately, at the end of the day, you can make all the money in the world. But the moment your reputation becomes risked, that money will stop.

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Jason Morrison (43:24)

You can be as successful as you want and then you go on a pathway with a product. There was a product out there, and I'm not going to put the product on blast. It's irrelevant. But there was a product that everyone was buying for a short period of time. They kept getting it. They kept getting. It was a buzz around it. Then someone started to get hurt based on that product, and now you can't find that product on the shelves. And that same thing can happen to a salesper. You can go and sell and be the hottest salesperson, but the moment that your reputation gets tarnished, there won't be nobody left to sell.

Paul Morris (43:50)

It wasn't that little scooter that you have to balance on, was it? Was it really?

Jason Morrison (43:54)

Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, think about it. You don't even see those things anymore. And pos the buzz and people are flying around the office and then I'm seeing people. I never got on it once. We're.

Paul Morris (44:03)

We're on it. We're on it. We're on. There's like a thousand products and that's the one thing that popped. I was making fun of you by. I was just poking fun saying, hey, is that that price?

Jason Morrison (44:12)

I mean, I could not get away from in the office. And now you never even see him anymore. Yeah, and that's what happened. I mean, like, it's a product and I could see, listen, I could see the fun and the joy behind it, but once people start to get hurt. All that fun and joy goes out the window and now you. I don't remember last time I saw somebody on.

Paul Morris (44:27)

Yeah, I stood on it like one time I was like, all right, I could really lose, you know, I could break an arm or whatever very easily. I got off it.

Jason Morrison (44:34)

Reputation, Reputation.

Paul Morris (44:35)

What if you're in a sort of one off sales or you're lead generating out into with strangers or whatever so you're, you're making those cold calls. Do you think there's an internal reputation? Because that's what. So if I'm not afraid that like okay, so I'm gonna slam this one guy into a subscription for a magazine or whatever, you know, then I'm gonna cold call somebody else. It's not really hurting my reputation. But when you were saying that I was thinking, you know, in our business reputation is everything. So and in most they are. But I was also thinking there's an internal piece to reputation also. And that is, I like to know that doing good, that makes me feel good, that helps me with the sales process.

Jason Morrison (45:14)

Yeah, I used to call it. So when I sold there was two types of branding. There's your company brand. So I'm talking about the great benefits of my organization, why you want to work with us, what makes us special. But then there's your internal brand and most of the time your internal brand is based off of your internal ethos. It is your philosophies. And so my self brand. A lot of times when I was on the phone, I'd get on the phone with the consumer and I'd say, let me just before I go into why my company's great to work with, I do want to let you know why I'm great to work with. The way I was raised, you treat people how you want to be treated, live by the golden rule. So just understand that as we go in this conversation. If I find an option that's going to make sense for you, I will 100% do everything in my power to convince you to take that option because I know it's the right thing. But conversely, you can have the confidence of knowing that if the option doesn't make sense, I will passionately explain it to you why you don't have to worry about being sold. A salesperson is someone that's only going to do it for the benefit of them. My internal integrity will not allow for me to not do it for you if it didn't make sense for you.

Paul Morris (46:09)

Yeah. One of the questions that I think will elicit the answer of the internal brand is what do you want to be known for?

Jason Morrison (46:18)

Two great questions that you should consistently ask yourself throughout the course of life is how many people will show up for my funeral and what will they say about me? And those are two questions that you have to consistently ask yourself to make sure that that internal brand that you're talking about is maintaining a solid position. If there's a line outside celebrating your life when it's time for you to move on, well, you know, that's the amount of people I made impact on. If it's an empty ceremony where someone's just tossing your ashes out in the distance, you got to ask yourself, how many people were influenced me along the way? And then what conversations are taking place? Are the conversations that of man, the world just lost someone that influenced the world? Or is the conversation like, you know, I'm sorry for your loss? Those are questions I ask myself, though morbid at times. And I think that in life, you know, there's, I think, a morbid capability for everyone to really realize things. You go up on an airplane, I'm sure everybody has a thought when they go up there, what's going to happen next? I want to make sure that the actions I take daily would lead, that those answers would be out of positivity.

Paul Morris (47:16)

And that's part of the sort of philosophical process of stoicism where, where you realize immortal and at some point in time and you not only do you realize you're immortal, people don't like to think about it. And I understand why, but they sort of embrace the mortality and it allows them to make better use of the time that they have.

Jason Morrison (47:35)

Yeah, I've seen salespeople throughout the course of time say things like, well, if I'm not going to make X on this, it's not worth my time. Or, you know, I don't have time to do this, or, you know, like, I'm going to pass this opportunity off to someone else and it. I just think, shame on you. You know, ultimately, at the end of the day, hey, if you've got a gift, then inside that gift you have an obligation to share. Because any day that gift could go away. There could be a position tomorrow where I no longer can have conversations around helping people with mortgages or, you know, helping navigate people in the life financially. I may choose to go a different path. I want to make sure that today then, no matter what the conversation is, how small or how easy that I make the person asking that question feel great about asking for sure.

Paul Morris (48:17)

My firm did 8,000 home sales last year, $8 billion in volume. And nowhere in there is anybody talking about a lease because leases are the lower level things. And yet I'm working with a client on a lease because it's a guy that I want to help out. It's a guy that is important to me. And so you do what you need to do to help the people you want to help. And ultimately in helping those people, I think you can take a selfish look at, at it. Being a great person is going to be great for you. They're going to say, let me put it this way, there's a great journey to get to the point where they say great things about you at your funeral.

Jason Morrison (48:54)

Think about if you lived in a paint a vision for you, but think about if you lived in a small area, we'll call it a 30 mile radius. And let's say you were the person that provided advice in that radius and every person that you provided good advice to wore a T shirt on that said Paul gives me great advice. How great would it be for you to walk and everywhere you turn someone was wearing that shirt. Imagine, however, if you only gave advice to a select few, how would that feel walking around and barely ever seeing someone wear your shirt? Yeah, my philosophy is I want to be flooded with my shirt because then at least I know, look how many people I'm helping. That to me just seems a lot more logical than just let me find that one person in the corner to put it on.

Paul Morris (49:32)

I love it.

Paul Morris (49:36)

So I'm ask you a series of questions and any one of these questions, just because I know who you are and the things you'll have to say about them, it could be 10 minutes on any of them. But because I've got a series of them, I'm going to, you know, let's do it. Just give me the snap answer and we'll, we'll see where it takes us.

Jason Morrison (49:52)

Okay. Okay, I'm ready.

Paul Morris (49:54)

What's your idea of perfect happiness?

Jason Morrison (49:56)

Wow, you come with a heavy one.

Paul Morris (49:58)

I didn't say they were going to be easy.

Jason Morrison (49:59)

Yeah. My idea of perfect happiness is in a state where my family, my friends, those I lead, those that I am responsible for, are all in a place that they believe I am helping them accomplish their goals. If that's happening, I'm happy.

Paul Morris (50:15)

Wow.

Jason Morrison (50:16)

What's your greatest fear as a father? My greatest fear is failing my daughters and failing them in aspects of being the right man for them to go after later in life. Failing them in aspects of being the mentor that they need failing them in getting to a place where I allow external focuses to distract from time that I spend with them. Failing as a father is my greatest fear.

Paul Morris (50:38)

What's the trait you most dislike in yourself?

Jason Morrison (50:41)

I tend to have had a tendency for a very long time to put others in front of my own success. I've struggled with self advocation for a long period of time and I don't like that. I think that you have to make time for yourself. You have to be your biggest advocate, you gotta be your biggest fan. And that would be something that I want to continue to involve at over a time time.

Paul Morris (50:59)

One of my greatest mentors. One interesting aspect about him is he would never say he regretted anything that he did because he felt like he was doing the best at that time that he could do for himself with one exception and that is the instances where he didn't stand for himself. And other than that he's like, well you know, I made a mistake, I might do that differently now. That's the past, we're here now. And the only thing that he said was exactly that. So that's super interesting.

Jason Morrison (51:29)

Listen, when you come from where I came from, came from, you can get caught in this window of you don't deserve things. And I think that I have to allow myself to understand that I've built enough personal equity in myself that I do deserve things. And so it's just a reminder, I love it.

Paul Morris (51:42)

And what's a trait you most dislike in others?

Jason Morrison (51:45)

I don't like liars. Integrity is a massive thing for me because of the fact that my default mechanism is trust till proven guilty. I tend to put a lot of faith in people and inside doing that. If they let that down. I have a hard time recovering from lack of integrity.

Paul Morris (51:59)

What's your greatest extravagance?

Jason Morrison (52:01)

I love experiences. Travel, going to see new places, meeting new people. To me there's nothing more extravagant than having something new in the memory bank that I can reflect on and go, man, I love that time.

Paul Morris (52:11)

Awesome. What do you consider the most overrated virtue?

Jason Morrison (52:17)

People who say that they move too fast or people who say they get things done quickly. I do not necessarily think that being fast and being effective are the same thing. And there's a lot of people out there that to try to give themselves a pat on the back because of how quick they accomplish things. They call themselves ultimate executors. For me, I would rather you take the time to do it right than do it fast and do it wrong.

Paul Morris (52:39)

What talent would you most like to Have.

Jason Morrison (52:42)

I'd love to be able to fly. I mean, why wouldn't you? Just to be able to get places a little bit more efficiently and always having control over the situation. If you gave me a superpower flying, it'd be that every single day.

Paul Morris (52:53)

If you could change one thing about yourself, what would it be?

Jason Morrison (52:55)

Be? I do wish that I took the time to be more formally educated. I think that there are opportunities that I may never get a chance to take on because of that barrier for entry. And I do wish that I would have taken the time to take that step.

Paul Morris (53:11)

What do you most value in your friends?

Jason Morrison (53:14)

I love a friend that will care for me the way that I care for them. As long as it is an equal opportunity relationship where we're both equally vested in it. I'll give you the shirt off my back if I know that if mine ripped five minutes later, you'd give me yours.

Paul Morris (53:29)

Which historical figure do you most identify with?

Jason Morrison (53:32)

I think it's changed over time, but I'll tell you A guy by the name of Fred Burton. He was a boxer in the United States Navy. He was a bodyguard for Rosa Parks. He was a civil rights advocate, and he was my grandfather. Wow. And I will tell you that throughout the course of life, in every journey I ever had, he was the one that always was in my corner. And that would be the one, historically for me, me, that I hope to live up to over the course of time.

Paul Morris (53:56)

Wow, that's cool. And gave me goosebumps, for sure. I knew your answers would be amazing. I said, hey, give them to me fast. Which you did. And I had to stop myself from digging into all the rest. I will say that the education piece, you know, it's all like, where we are from perspective. My dad only graduated high school and grew up during the Great Depression, and his focus was to make sure we got educated at any cost. So as a result, my siblings and I have gotten a lot of education. I've had a lot of education. And I do find that that experience is worthwhile and helpful, for sure. And I think there's probably nothing you could do. Knowing you, there's nothing that you would want to do that education would hold you back from. I really believe that.

Jason Morrison (54:44)

Yeah. And I appreciate you saying it. And I think that I've yet to find something I couldn't overcome. I just think that sometimes it's down to the pack, where people view you on paper, paper before they get to view you as a person. And on paper, depending on the person, they may not ever Get a chance to view me in person because of what they may see on paper. And so that is where I miss that opportunity. And the other thing I think it comes from is there are some weaknesses that I have. One would be the written word. Things that you learn throughout the course of experiences you do in higher education, that sometimes can be more challenging for me, given the fact that I never had those experiences. So that. That's just continuing personal growth. I'm taking classes right now to advance those things. Not for a piece of paper, but just to continue to get better. As I told you before, that's my goal every day.

Paul Morris (55:27)

And I was also thinking that you've developed such a resume over time that at some point in time, that resume has got to eclipse the degree. And look, I think it's cool, too. You know, somebody has Harvard MBA on their resume. That's cool. And, you know, having gone to a great law school, I would look around, and people that are great in school are generally, you know, the scientists or the nerds or whatever. And it's not always who you would want as your lawyer. And that's the tricky part. Somebody who could sit in a Harvard MBA class, do all the stuff that it would take academically to get there, would be. The person that could sit through and excel at a Harvard MBA class, would also generally. Generally would not be the charismatic leader that you need to have to be CEO of a company.

Jason Morrison (56:13)

I couldn't agree with you.

Paul Morris (56:14)

Yeah, it's interesting stuff, though. Super cool. I can't tell you what a pleasure it's been spending this time. I could. You know, we could go all day.

Jason Morrison (56:20)

We could do this all day for sure. And honestly, just the beginning. We probably should be doing this a lot more often. I want to thank you for taking the time to let me share my story, because it's all great reminders for even myself of not only the journey that I've been on, but the philosophies that have allowed that journey to, you know, mature over the course of time. So I appreciate you giving me that platform. It gave me goosebumps to have that combo with you.

Paul Morris (56:41)

Yeah, I love it. And it really steps back into my why for doing this podcast, because I get to, you know, reach in, and I know you're so busy every single day, and to take the time to go back and reflect is a gift for all of us and also, hopefully, a gift for you.

Jason Morrison (56:55)

Looking forward to the next one, brother.

Paul Morris (56:56)

Okay, sounds good.

Paul Morris (57:01)

I'm so fired up about what we were able to accomplish today. And talking to Jason. Really helping people learn what they need to learn in order to get into action and get off the sidelines. First time home buyers and beyond and I'm so delighted to do this in partnership with Entrepreneur Media. What a phenomenal opportunity. If you like the show, hit subscribe. That definitely helps us, but also please leave comments. Tell us what we're doing right, tell us what we're doing wrong because because we're building a community with Radical Wealth Plan and that community is where we move together from being on the sidelines to building great wealth in real estate. I'd love to connect with all of you in between episodes, so follow me. Paulmark Morris on Instagram thanks so much for tuning in to Radical Wealth Plan. Please hit the subscribe button. I'm Paul Morris and I'm looking forward to seeing you for the next episode of Radical Wealth Plan.

Jason Morrison (58:01)

This podcast was produced by Amaze Media Labs.