Radio Atlantic: "A Blueprint for Military Takeovers"
Date: August 28, 2025
Host: Hanna Rosin (The Atlantic)
Guests: Quinta Jurecic (legal issues reporter), Nick Miroff (immigration reporter)
Episode Overview
This episode explores President Trump’s increasingly controversial use of federal military power and law enforcement within American cities, especially those with Democratic leadership and sanctuary policies. The discussion centers on legal, logistical, and cultural barriers to deploying troops domestically, the conflation of crime and immigration, and evolving responses from states and municipalities. The episode uses current events in Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles as case studies and considers the potential long-term impact on American democracy, civil-military relations, and immigration enforcement.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Trump’s Use of Federal Power in Cities
- Contextual Backdrop: President Trump recently signed executive orders directing the Defense Secretary to create specialized military units to quell “civil disturbances” (03:31).
- D.C. as an Exception: Due to its federal status, the President can deploy National Guard and manipulate local police powers more easily in D.C. than in states (07:06).
- “Precisely because D.C. is a federal enclave, the state self governing authority that it has is actually something established by Congress under something called the Home Rule Act.” — Quinta Jurecic [07:14]
- Other Cities: For cities like Chicago and Los Angeles, the President faces more legal and logistical hurdles to deploy troops without gubernatorial consent (08:44, 09:49).
2. Legal Protections and Loopholes
- Posse Comitatus Act: Restricts the use of federal troops (including federalized National Guard) for domestic law enforcement. Several executive actions are testing these boundaries (11:23).
- “There’s a tremendous skepticism, for good reason, for allowing a President to use troops in cities as they wish.” — Hanna Rosin [11:23]
- Federalization Process: Transitioning state Guard troops to federal control requires legal justifications and is logistically complicated (10:12, 10:27).
- Title 32 Authority: Middle ground where Guard units from other (often “red”) states operate under state authority but federal direction and pay, raising complicated questions of state sovereignty (22:20, 22:57).
3. The Immigration Subtext
- Conflating Crime and Immigration: The Trump administration merges the narrative of rising crime with fears over immigration, despite evidence to the contrary (05:18).
- “The Trump administration and the President in particular, have conflated crime and immigration for a long time.” — Nick Miroff [05:18]
- Tactics & Impact: Reports of checkpoints, increased ICE activity, and immigrant community fear/loss of trust in law enforcement—especially in D.C. and L.A. (03:43, 04:59, 17:34).
4. Political and Social Consequences
- Eroding Norms: Even deployments that seem ineffective or “theatrical” may erode the cultural and legal barriers to domestic military presence (14:05, 15:12).
- “What Trump is doing in all these deployments… is kind of eroding that cultural prohibition against deploying the military in this way.” — Quinta Jurecic [15:06]
- Authoritarian Fears vs. Political Theater: Debate about whether these actions represent true threats to democracy or political showmanship for Trump’s base (13:38–14:05).
- State & City Pushback: Governors like Newsom (CA) and Pritzker (IL) use federal deployments to rally opposition and build political capital (31:09, 31:35).
5. Legal Battles and Future Precedents
- Ongoing Litigation: Lawsuits like Newsom v. Trump (re: L.A. deployment) may determine or constrain future use of troops (19:41, 21:30).
- Speed vs. Scrutiny: Trump’s administration moves quickly, often outpacing slow legal processes—possibly altering facts on the ground before courts can respond (24:18–25:26).
- “Trump has kind of adopted this strategy of moving fast and breaking things and waiting for the courts to catch up.” — Quinta Jurecic [24:30]
6. Escalating Enforcement
- Rapid ICE Expansion: Trump’s “big, beautiful bill” gives ICE $75 billion (nearly 10x annual budget) to quickly double the deportation workforce, raising risks of untrained/misbehaving agents (25:42).
- “ICE has gotten about $75 billion through the president’s big, beautiful bill… trying to train and deploy 10,000 [deportation officers] by the end of this year.” — Nick Miroff [25:42]
7. New Executive Orders & Cashless Bail
- Specialized National Guard Units: Trump moves to formalize rapid deployment mechanisms, “normalizing” troop use in cities (27:34).
- Cashless Bail Actions: New executive orders attempt to curtail cashless bail—a popular reform—for alleged public safety reasons, despite lack of federal authority or evidence linking it to crime (28:12–30:52).
- “[Trump] seems to have this idea that [cashless bail and crime] are somehow linked… but there is no surge in crime.” — Quinta Jurecic [29:27]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “Even when federal law enforcement and the Guard aren’t actually themselves right there, it’s very present.”
— Quinta Jurecic [04:25] - “You can use this power of federalization to deploy a state guard against the wishes of that state’s governor, but… there are some real restrictions on how you can use them.”
— Quinta Jurecic [12:11] - “This is stepping over a sort of culturally and politically very important line… We have kind of a bad response culturally to the idea of the military being deployed to American cities.”
— Quinta Jurecic [14:17] - “Legally, I will be keeping a close eye on this court case in California… it will nevertheless be an important marker as the first time that this has been seriously litigated in the second Trump term.”
— Quinta Jurecic [34:01] - “What model solidifies? If we get a working model, they can repeat that working model in lots of cities.”
— Hanna Rosin [33:52]
Important Segments & Timestamps
- Trump’s “musing” about military in cities: [01:16–01:53]
- Quinta describes street-level impact in D.C.: [03:31–04:43]
- Discussion of conflating crime and immigration: [05:18–06:50]
- Legal differences: D.C. vs. other cities: [07:06–08:44]
- Posse Comitatus—limits on troop use: [11:23–12:34]
- Reality of National Guard in L.A.: [12:50–13:38]
- Cultural fears/history of military in U.S. cities: [15:06–16:17]
- Trial runs and immigration fear: [17:34–19:28]
- Legal strategy and Title 32 workaround: [21:49–24:18]
- Fast-moving executive branch vs. slow courts: [24:18–25:26]
- ICE expansion and hiring risks: [25:42–27:02]
- Formalizing military rapid reaction units: [27:34–28:12]
- Cashless bail executive orders: [28:12–30:52]
- Democratic governors’ pushback: [31:09–32:26]
- Closing: what to watch going forward: [33:05–34:37]
Conclusion
The episode provides a nuanced, clear-eyed assessment of the legal, cultural, and administrative mechanisms constraining (and enabling) the Trump administration’s expansion of federal policing and military presence in American cities. Through personal accounts, legal analysis, and policy critique, it highlights the precariousness of longstanding democratic norms and predicts potential future flashpoints—in the courts, in city halls, and on American streets.
For anyone seeking to understand how the conversation around presidential power, military deployment, and immigration enforcement is rapidly evolving in America’s urban centers, this episode is essential listening.