An American Education | 1. Is Oklahoma Breaking Public Schools?

Summary

Radio Atlantic: An American Education | 1. Is Oklahoma Breaking Public Schools?

Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Hanna Rosin (The Atlantic)

---

Overview

This powerful episode "Is Oklahoma Breaking Public Schools?" explores the ongoing ideological, political, and cultural battles reshaping public education in Oklahoma—a state now at the front lines of the American so-called “war on schools.” Host Hanna Rosin takes listeners on a journey through recent history and personal stories: from heated political campaigns to classrooms in turmoil, teachers under fire, and the surprisingly complicated legacy of Ryan Walters, a once-revered teacher turned controversial state superintendent. Central themes include the role of religion and patriotism, censorship, culture war tactics, the meaning of democracy in schools, and the immense personal costs faced by educators caught in the crossfire.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Foundational Role of Public Schools in Democracy

• Opening Reflection: Host Hanna Rosin recalls her immigrant experience in the American public school system, highlighting the role these institutions played in teaching "messy democracy"—the skill of coexisting with difference:

  “We were mean to each other, made fun of each other’s holidays, regularly sniffed each other’s lunches and said, ew. Gross. Fights broke out nearly every day on the playground, but every morning we all showed up and said the Pledge of Allegiance together... we were absorbing another lesson that would serve us throughout our life. It was a lesson on messy democracy.” (01:00)

• Rosin raises the alarm that this "training ground for democracy" may be vanishing as new forces reshape what is taught, read, and allowed in schools.

---

2. The Oklahoma Frontline: Religion, Law, and “War”

• A New Religious-Patriotic Offensive: Ryan Walters, Oklahoma State Superintendent, foregrounds his tenure with the announcement of the "Office of Religious Liberty and Patriotism" within the Oklahoma State Department of Education.

  • He issues direct, public prayers to schools and parents:

    “I will now say a prayer. And to be clear, students, you don’t have to join, but if you so wish, I’m gonna go ahead and pray.” (03:48)

• Walters positions his policies as an explicit battle:

  • The Latin phrase si vis pacem, para bellum (“If you want peace, prepare for war”) on his desk signals the belligerent mood. (04:52)

• Escalating Culture War:

  • Oklahoma’s schools are now battlegrounds for debates over:
    • Religion in the classroom
    • Book bans and “Critical Race Theory” (CRT) laws
    • LGBTQ+ inclusion
    • Parental rights and censorship
    • Political pressure from national figures, including Donald Trump

---

3. Summer Boamier’s Story: The Cost of Classroom Dissent

The “CRT Ban” and Its Chilling Effects

• The Law: Oklahoma's HB 1775, the “Critical Race Theory ban,” prohibits certain lessons about race, but its vagueness leaves teachers in fear. (05:23)

• Teacher Caught in the Crossfire: Summer Boamier, a longtime, introverted English teacher and avid reader, describes the impossible choice:

  • Remove her classroom library?
  • Hide it with paper?
  • Censor herself preemptively?

  “...I love me a good text feature. And so I added the caption, ‘books the state doesn’t want you to read.’” (08:37)

• Defiance and Consequence:

  • Boamier adds a QR code linking her students to Brooklyn Public Library’s "Books Unbanned" program, offering free access to challenged books. (10:18)

  • This act draws swift backlash; she’s called into district offices and later resigns. Walters, then running for office, moves to make an example of her:

    “I’m asking the Oklahoma State Board of Education to revoke her Teaching certificate. Immediately.” (15:21, Walters’ tweet)

  • The rhetorical escalations turn dangerous. Boamier receives threats, is labeled "a pedophile," and endures doxing.

    “There are accusations featuring the word pornographic on state letterhead with my name in the same paragraph... that is something that doesn’t go away.” (16:38)

  • Ultimately, her teaching certificate is officially revoked by a unanimous Board vote—despite an officer finding she’d broken no law. (37:22)

---

4. Walters’ Rise: From Beloved Teacher to Political Lightning Rod

Personal Narratives from Former Students

• A Changed Persona: Starla Edge and Shane Hood, two of Walters' former high school students, reminisce fondly about "Coach Walters":

  • Known for self-effacing humor, “high heels” shoes, and a warm classroom culture where even queer students felt respected.

    “Nobody I ever knew personally had a problem with him, which was weird because everybody had something, at least one thing bad to say about every other teacher in that high school. He was the only one that we saw was universally loved.” (30:36, Starla)

• Walters, they say, emphasized critical thinking over dogma:

  • Lessons on Reconstruction’s failures, open casket photos of Emmett Till, the psychological harm of segregation (33:09)
  • He “skimmed” over Christianity (“If you want to know more, go to frickin church”), taught other world religions (31:57)
  • “He was woke. He was a woke teacher.” (32:59, Shane)

• Transformation:

  • Former students express confusion and heartbreak at his political pivot, feeling he’s become “unrecognizable”—a dynamic likened to a parent’s personality being rewritten after remarrying (34:04).

---

5. National and Local Battle Lines

• Public School Exodus and Privatization:
  • Two-thirds of U.S. public schools have lost enrollment; nationwide, “school choice” is often a banner for shifting funds to private and religious schools.
  • Walters pushes for public funding of a religious charter school and large-scale Bible purchases—many policies at or beyond the edge of prevailing legal boundaries. (21:34–22:45)
• Trump’s Endorsement and Sympathies:
  • Trump amplifies Walters’ message and initiatives, posting public support on social media (21:45)

---

6. State of Play: The Present and Uncertain Future

• Litigation and Legal Standoffs:

  • The Oklahoma Supreme Court has temporarily stayed new curriculum standards after lawsuits allege the required Bible inclusion violates the separation of church and state. (40:50)
  • Walters dismisses the court as “embarrassing and out of step with Oklahomans.”

• Teachers’ Protection:

  • Oklahoma introduces ideological vetting for incoming teachers from places like California and New York to guard against “radical leftist ideology.” (41:59)

---

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “We are excited to announce a new office here in the Oklahoma State Department of Education. That will be the office of Religious Liberty and Patriotism.”
  — Ryan Walters (03:06)

• “I remember going back to my classroom after this meeting had occurred. And I have never been more grateful for the office chair that I had… I sat there for, I would imagine it was upwards of half an hour, just spinning. And I thought to myself, What am I going to do?”
  — Summer Boamier (06:32)

• “It’s meant to force self-censorship. It’s meant to scare people.”
  — Summer Boamier, on the CRT ban (09:10)

• “Pornography should not be in our schools. No parent should send their child to school and their child have access to graphic pornography.”
  — Ryan Walters, debate for Superintendent (12:39)

• “I have grown up in Oklahoma… and I knew what this could cost me.”
  — Summer Boamier, on her protest (11:11)

• “The teachers union—you know, I don’t negotiate with the teachers union. They’re a terrorist organization.”
  — Ryan Walters (18:58)

• “He’d do little roasts on Twitter... Coach Walters, your pants are so tight they ripped... Is your beard a pumpkin? Halloween festival because it’s patchy.”
  — Ryan Walters (Imitating himself, 29:20–29:33)

• “He was woke. He was a woke teacher.”
  — Shane Hood, former student (32:59)

• “My teaching certificate being unanimously revoked by that state Board of education in Oklahoma... If I could put that at the top of my resume, I would. It will always be a point of pride for me.”
  — Summer Boamier (37:53)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:00–03:06 — Hanna Rosin’s opening, public schools as a training ground for democracy
• 03:06–04:44 — Walters’ religious and patriotic offensive; culture war framing
• 05:23–11:11 — Summer Boamier’s story: CRT ban, censorship, and QR code protest
• 12:29–16:38 — The Walters-Nelson debate, book bans, and the fallout for Boamier
• 17:16–21:45 — Walters’ rise; influencer tactics; teachers union and the nationalization of the OK education battle
• 25:27–34:04 — Former students recount the “Coach Walters” they knew vs. the politician
• 37:22–40:50 — The revocation of Boamier’s teaching certificate, her reflections, and current legal battles over curriculum
• 41:59–end — Walters’ new curriculum, teacher ideology tests, and preview of next episode (including a new Walters-related scandal)

---

Closing Reflections – The Human and Democratic Stakes

Summer Boamier, reflecting on her forced exit and return:

“I want to live. And this is the way I ensure that happens.” (39:40)

The episode ends on both a personal and societal note: the reverberations of Oklahoma’s education revolution reach not only into the lives of teachers and students but into the heart of American democracy itself.

---

What’s Next

Next episode preview:
A direct interview with Ryan Walters, who addresses his controversial changes, confronts his past as a teacher, and responds to a recent scandal involving explicit images in his office.

---

Listeners come away from this episode with a vivid, personalized sense of what’s at stake—and who gets harmed—as public education in Oklahoma becomes a proving ground for national ideological conflict.

Transcript

[WhatsApp Advertiser]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp Message Privately with everyone.

[LifeLock Advertiser]

Learn [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by LifeLock. When you visit the doctor, you probably hand over your insurance, your ID and contact details. It's just one of the many places that has your personal info and if any of them accidentally expose it, you could be at risk for identity theft. LifeLock monitors millions of data points a second. If you become a victim, they'll fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Save up to 40% your first [e-mail] podcast terms apply.

[Hanna Rosen]

I remember my first day in an American public school. I had just moved here from Israel. I was nervous about what was in my lunchbox. Pita with things stuffed inside it. But when I sat down at the lunch table, the whole place was like an international food hall. Dal dumplings, jerk chicken. You get the idea. This was PS117 in Queens, one of the most diverse places on the planet. The term of art back then to describe our situation, families of every race, configuration and religion sitting down to eat together was melting pot, which makes it sound like a smooth, warm bisque. It was not. We were mean to each other, made fun of each other's holidays, regularly sniffed each other's lunches and said, ew. Gross. Fights broke out nearly every day on the playground, but every morning we all showed up and said the Pledge of Allegiance together. I didn't think about it at all this way when I was a kid, but on top of the English and math and social studies, we were absorbing another lesson that would serve us throughout our life. It was a lesson on messy democracy. How to be around people who ate and thought and believed different things than we did and than our parents did, hate them on some days and still wake up the next morning and go to school. To be honest, I wish I had thought about all this sooner. I wish we all had. Because this role that public schools have played, a training ground on how to live with your fellow citizens who aren't like you might be disappearing. I'm Hanna Rosen. This is Radio Atlantic. This episode, we have something different.

[Ryan Walters]

We are excited to announce a new office here in the Oklahoma State Department of Education. That will be the office of Religious liberty and patriotism.

[Hanna Rosen]

We took a field trip to Oklahoma, where this war on public schools is probably at its most overt.

[Ryan Walters]

For too long in this country, we've seen the radical left attack individuals. Religious liberty in our schools. We will not tolerate that in Oklahoma.

[Hanna Rosen]

This is from a video that state superintendent Ryan Walters of Oklahoma sent out to school administrators across the state. He told them to play it for every student in class and send it to every parent. Inviting students to pray along with him in school is just one provocative move he's made.

[Ryan Walters]

I will now say a prayer. And to be clear, students, you don't have to join, but if you so wish, I'm gonna go ahead and pray.

[Hanna Rosen]

But not every move he makes comes as an invitation. As the state superintendent, Walters has the power to enact policies and influence curriculum. Now, of course, he's not the first American elected official to try and get religion into Public Schools. 2025, after all, is the 100th anniversary of the Scopes Monkey trial, when Tennessee put a public school teacher on trial for teaching evolution. But what's happening lately is different. Pressure on what kids learn and read is coming from all angles. National parents movements, the White House, the Supreme. It's coordinated, it's more creative. And this war on schools is spreading nationally.

[Ryan Walters]

I pray for our parents, teachers and kids that they get the best education possible and live high quality lives.

[Hanna Rosen]

War, by the way, is not my lazy metaphor. In the foreground of the Ryan Walters video on his desk is a mug. It says, si vis pacem para bellum, which is Latin for if you want peace, prepare for war.

[Ryan Walters]

What makes America great and that they continue to love this country.

[Starla Edge]

Amen.

[Hanna Rosen]

Before Ryan Walters was elected, when he was still a candidate, he singled out a specific teacher who seemed to embody for him what he thought was wrong with the public schools. Her name was Summer Boamier. It was August of 2022, and over at Norman High School south of Oklahoma City, she was getting her classroom ready. The school year hadn't officially started, but things were already off. Boamier recalls that she and the other teachers were called into a meeting and reminded about HB 1775, a new bill known as the Critical Race Theory ban. That bill forbids teaching things like, quote, an individual by virtue of his or her race or sex is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously. But that's about as specific as it gets. Boamier says they were told to restrict students access to any classroom books that could fall under the bill, but restrict how and which books exactly?

[Summer Boamier]

I remember going back to my classroom after this meeting had occurred. And I have never been more grateful for the office chair that I had.

[Hanna Rosen]

Why?

[Summer Boamier]

Because it spun beautifully. And I sat there for, I would imagine it was upwards of half an hour, just spitting. And I thought to myself, what? What am I going to do?

[Hanna Rosen]

Wamier herself had been a student in Oklahoma public schools K through 12. After she graduated with a BA in English from the University of Oklahoma, teaching seemed like the practical career choice, except for one thing.

[Summer Boamier]

I remember thinking, I am wildly introverted and I'm also very awkward. I'm sure you'll find out from this conversation. But how am I going to make connections with young people in my classes if I'm having trouble making connections myself?

[Hanna Rosen]

As a kid in school, Boamier was a voracious reader. She loved YA and science fiction. So as a teacher, she wanted to use her love of reading as a way to reach her students. Over her nine years of teaching, Boamier amassed a huge library for her own personal classroom. Five hundred books, which the kids could read in class or check out. Most of the books she paid for herself. And as she spun in her office chair that day, she considered what she should do. Should she remove all those books from her class? Turn their spines facing inward so students couldn't see the titles? Or maybe just cover over the bookshelves with butcher paper? She chose C. Wait, you literally covered it over? That's what people. That's the weirdest solution. Cause I would think that the teenagers, knowing teenagers would just be real curious, you know?

[Summer Boamier]

Well, I mean, that was one of the options that was presented to me. And I had butcher paper in my room, and so why the heck not? But I remember too, again, I am, you know, I'm a teacher as well, and so I love me a good text feature. And so I added the caption, books the state doesn't want you to read.

[Hanna Rosen]

Just wrote it in black marker, biggish, but not too big and neat enough to read right on the red butcher paper that covered the bookshelves.

[Summer Boamier]

But I remember going home thinking about my classroom library and what message that sends to students when they walk in. And I thought to myself, it's not enough because this is a dumb law and it's meant to force self censorship. It's meant to scare people.

[Hanna Rosen]

The problem for teachers, there is no official list of banned books, but lots of books have been challenged in Oklahoma. For example, in. In 2022, a state attorney general reviewed a list of about 50 books that included Lord of the Flies, of Mice and Men. I Know why the Caged Bird Sings books that American kids have been reading for decades. He pretty quickly dropped the investigation, saying he would leave it up to parents and local school boards. But that left a problem. How could you possibly know for sure what was and wasn't okay? What? Boamier was upset. She cried for a good hour or two about it, and in the end, she took the provocative route and added to her display.

[Summer Boamier]

I created a QR code. I linked it to the library.

[Hanna Rosen]

When you scan the QR code, it took you to a Brooklyn Public Library program called Books Unbanned, which offers free library cards to teens who may live in places where books are challenged or banned.

[Summer Boamier]

And I printed the QR code and slapped it up around the room on those same shelves that bore the caption books the state doesn't want you to read.

[Hanna Rosen]

Summer, I gotta say, like, you've described yourself as shy and awkward. This is a bold ass plan. Like, this is a plan that you like. You just, I don't know if you were this certain in the moment, like in the day, or if this certainty is kind of two years down the road. But I'm just, just, I'm noting that I'm curious about that.

[Summer Boamier]

I remember thinking to myself, and again, I have grown up in Oklahoma. I know Oklahoma education, and I knew what this could cost me.

[Hanna Rosen]

Welcome to the Fox 25 debate between Secretary of Education Ryan Walters and former teacher of the year Gina Nelson, your Republican and Democratic nominees for for state superintendent. Around the same time ryan Walters, then 37, was running for office, he was already Secretary of education. He'd been appointed to that position by the governor, and he supported the critical race theory ban. But that position is largely symbolic. In Oklahoma, it's the state superintendent who has the real power to change the schools. Walters was running against a woman named Gina Nelson, who generally talked about school stuff, career readiness, teacher retention, child and food insecurity. Oklahoma public schools have consistently ranked near the bottom for reading and math scores on the nation's report card. In a recent national survey, the State came in 48th in education overall. But Walters, in a debate with Nelson, he talked a lot about war.

[Ryan Walters]

What we are seeing right now in the state of Oklahoma is a civil war that's being fought in our schools.

[Hanna Rosen]

And there was one topic in particular that he kept coming back to.

[Ryan Walters]

Pornography. Pornography should not be in our schools. No parent should send their child to school and their child have access to graphic pornography.

[Hanna Rosen]

What Walters is referring to are a couple of books that conservatives often bring up in these kinds of debates.

[Ryan Walters]

Well, I'm going to tell you what a radical position is. Her position that pornography, genderqueer and Flamer, these books should be in every public school library and should be in our classrooms. That's a radical position.

[Hanna Rosen]

Okay? Genderqueer includes pages with a picture of a vibrator and two guys naked making out. It's meant for a 16 plus audience. So it seems legitimate to question whether it should be on a bookshelf easily accessible to kids younger than that. But it seems less legitimate to pretend that the book is definitely on bookshelves all over your state.

[Ryan Walters]

I began hearing from parents all over the state going, hey, when we send our kids to school, you know, we are not expecting them to be able to check out a book from the library that's got explicit pornography in it. And unfortunately, this is a tactic we've seen of the far left.

[Hanna Rosen]

So it was while Walters was out on the campaign trail talking about these so called pornographic books that Boamier put up the QR code. And on the first day of school, a parent complained. The parent told a local news station that she had scanned the QR code and saw a reading event for genderqueer from the Brooklyn Public Library. Boamier was called into a meeting at the district office. She wasn't fired, but later that day, she chose to resign. And that was that. Boamier was no longer teaching in Oklahoma public schools because of the news she'd caught the attention of the Brooklyn Public Library and she was deciding what to do next with her life. Like, maybe she would leave the state, try living in a big city. And one day she got on a Twitter live. Remember those?

[Summer Boamier]

I was actually in one of those with some folks from Brooklyn Public Library talking about the library's initiative and the benefits therein. When I started to kind of suddenly, as we're in the middle of this conversation, get all kinds of text messages and calls, and no one ever calls me except my mom. But suddenly I have reporters from all over the OKC area who are texting me saying, have you seen, have you seen the letter? This tweet secretary Ryan Walters posted this morning saying, quote, sexualizing our classrooms will not be tolerated. Now he asks for an Open.

[Hanna Rosen]

On August 31, 2022, Walters, who is still campaigning for state superintendent, tweeted a statement about Boamier. It read, quote, in light of recent events involving Norman High School English teacher Summer Boumier, I'm asking the Oklahoma State Board of Education to revoke her Teaching certificate. Immediately. As you were scanning the letter, were there any words that jumped out at you like his letter?

[Summer Boamier]

I think what stands out to me and I think what hit me the most, not only just because it is patently false, but because of the implications. You know, the. The word pornographic.

[Hanna Rosen]

The statement from Walters continued, quote, there is no place for a teacher with a liberal political agenda in the classroom. Ms. Boamier's providing access to banned and pornographic material to students is unacceptable, and we must ensure she doesn't go to another district and do the same thing. Boamier said she started to get threatening messages. One message called her a pedophile. Another listed her apartment number. At one point, she even called the police.

[Summer Boamier]

I mean, what we're talking about here, this isn't a job. This is a career. And, you know, I am one person in, you know, a small state in the middle of the country, and, you know, there are accusations featuring the word pornographic on state letterhead with my name in the same paragraph. That is something that, regardless of what happens with any of this, that is something that doesn't go away.

[Hanna Rosen]

The current Oklahoma Secretary of Education, ryan Walters, with 57% of the vote. Again, the projected winner here over Gina Nelson. A longtime team, Walters easily won the seat in November 2022. For a guy who was pretty new to politics, occupying a meat and potatoes type position, he was remarkably good at building a national brand. Basically, as I see it, he borrowed some influencer tips on growing your audience. Start beefs often and loudly. Make friends with people who have way more followers than you do. For example, several months into office, Walter shared a video from the Libs of TikTok account. I know you should never try and explain a TikTok, but it featured a Tulsa librarian lip syncing to Ludacris and seemingly admitting to pushing a woke agenda. She was probably kidding, but Walters apparently did not read it that way. For about a week, the librarian and the school received bomb threats. Walters publicly said he actually got bomb threats, too. The whole thing was an early hint of how noisy Walters planned to be. Oklahoma State Democrats called for an impeachment probe, and Walters leaned in harder. He named the libs of TikTok account founder Chaya Raichik, who, by the way, is known for using the term groomer, as in gay people infiltrate schools to groom children. To an Oklahoma State library advisory committee. We're going to remove porn from the schools and you can't stop us. Walters also took a no mercy approach towards the teachers unions.

[Ryan Walters]

The teachers union, you know, I Don't negotiate with the teachers union. They're a terrorist organization, that is content members, members.

[Hanna Rosen]

Another time Walters got a lot of attention was when he said teachers could cover the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre, where white Tulsans slaughtered hundreds of black people. But they should not, quote, say that the skin color determined it. Walters accused the media of twisting his words. He said the events that day were racist, evil, and inexcusable. He also said that kids should never be made to feel bad or told they are inferior based on the color of their skin. The Onion weighed in with this headline. Oklahoma Schools to Teach Students that Tulsa Massacre was Crime of Passion from Loving black People too much. In the early 2000s, I covered the religious right as a reporter for the Washington Post. Back then, the religious homeschooling movement was booming. I wrote a book about it. Their motivating idea was that they had lost the culture war and needed a kind of, quote, quarantine, as conservative activist Paul Weyrich put it, to protect their children from infection by a culture hostile to Christianity. And so religious families had to create a parallel and protected zone of education for their kids. Now, many of those same religious families are joining forces with Trump. Instead of avoiding public schools, some religious parents are pushing to remake them in their own image. And Trump is on board, vowing to end what he calls radical indoctrination in K through 12 schools, threatening to pull funds from schools that teach about gender identity. And he's made it a priority to expand school choice nationwide, which in many places is the catchphrase for creative ways to shift funds from public schools to private and religious schools. Let's bring in Oklahoma State Superintendent Ryan Walters, always an interesting voice on all matters, education wise. A generation ago, someone like Walters would be a fringe state official pushing religion in schools, but now he's at the center of the action. In June of last year, he directed all Oklahoma public schools to teach the Bible. And in an appearance on Fox News, Walters talked about displaying the ten Commandments.

[Ryan Walters]

What we've seen in America are the Democrats, the teachers unions have driven God out of schools and Americans, Oklahomans, President Trump want God back in the classroom.

[Hanna Rosen]

The reality that one got Trump's attention. He posted on Truth Social, quote, great job by Oklahoma State Superintendent Ryan Walters on Fox News last night. Strong, decisive, and knows his stuff. And then in all caps, I love Oklahoma. Speaking of Trump, Walters wanted to spend millions of dollars in state money to purchase 55,000 Bibles. And the Oklahoma Department of Education put out a bids request that specified the Bibles must be the King James Version and must include a copy of the Pledge of Allegiance, Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and must be bound in leather or leather like material. One of the only Bibles that meets that criteria is the God Bless the USA Bible, endorsed by Lee Greenwood and President Trump. It sells for $59.99, and I'm proud.

[Shane Hood]

To be an American where at least.

[Hanna Rosen]

I know I'm free. The Education Department later changed some of those requirements and denied that they were meant to cater to one particular Bible. And the Oklahoma Supreme Court has paused the Bible plan for now. But Walters still was not deterred. And what anyone who tracks public education could see is that if there was ever a time to push the limits, it's now.

[Ryan Walters]

The court sided with a group of religious Maryland parents who want the option to keep their elementary age children out of lessons involving books with LGBTQ content.

[Hanna Rosen]

I think the ruling was a great ruling, and I think it's a great ruling for parents. It's really a ruling for parents that they lost control of the schools. They lost control of their child.

[Ryan Walters]

The U.S. supreme Court, they're going to hear oral arguments today in a case over the nation's first publicly funded religious charter school in Oklahoma. At the heart of the case is whether public funds should be allowed to support a religious entity.

[Hanna Rosen]

That Oklahoma case, which proposed using taxpayer funds to operate a religious school, is especially significant. The court was split 4, 4. And it likely only failed because Justice Amy Coney Barrett recused herself. It's a case one education expert told us would have been unimaginable a few years ago. But right now, public schools are shaky for lots of reasons. Parents have been moving kids to charter or private schools. In the last few years, 2/3 of traditional public schools have lost enrollment. School systems in Florida, New Jersey, Tennessee, and dozens of other states have had to hire consultants to encourage parents to enroll their children in local schools. And in the public schools that do remain, teachers have to be extra careful lest they trigger a viral parents rights moment. All the moves that Ryan Walters was pulling, the prayer in schools, the Bibles, the Civil War, and pornography in the classroom. It struck some people as odd because a lot of people knew Walters as someone different. A public school teacher who taught AP history, who'd been a finalist for Oklahoma Teacher of the Year, whose students loved him.

[Shane Hood]

I thought he was a closeted Democrat raised to be a Republican, but I thought he was like, kind of like coming out of it, you know what I mean? Like, the people who were like, they're so close, you're so close to getting the big picture here. I thought that was him.

[Hanna Rosen]

That's after the break.

[LifeLock Advertiser]

Trip Planner by Expedia. You were made to outdo your holiday, your hammocking and your pooling. We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia Made to travel.

[Hanna Rosen]

Recently we asked some people about sharing their New York Times accounts. My name is Dana. I am a subscriber to the New York Times, but my husband isn't and it would be really nice to be able to share a recipe or an article or compete with him in wordle or connections. Thank you, Dana. We heard you introducing the New York Times Family subscription. One subscription, up to four separate logins for anyone in your life. Find out [e-mail] family what is the first memory either of you have of what did you call him in school? Mr. Walters?

[Starla Edge]

Coach Walters.

[Hanna Rosen]

Coach Walters. Great. Okay.

[Shane Hood]

What's your he wasn't in sports, but he was still Coach Walters.

[Starla Edge]

It's very common in McAllister School. If they coach a sport, that's what they're called.

[Hanna Rosen]

This is Shane Hood and starla Edge, both 23. We're meeting with them in Starla's living room in Oklahoma City, where her cats are hiding, but the many stuffed animals are in full view. Like Ryan Walters, Shane and Starla grew up in McAlester, Oklahoma, a place that Starla describes as the biggest city in the middle of nowhere.

[Shane Hood]

I'd say up until kind of recently, like, we just got a new Starbucks. We're getting a 5 below and a TJ Maxx, and that's all brand new.

[Starla Edge]

Very rarely do people who were born and raised in McAlester actually stay there if they can help it.

[Hanna Rosen]

Shane and Starla have known each other since middle school, but they were not friends back then. Starla came at us queer. She was head of the Gay Straight alliance, or gsa, her junior year. Shane, meanwhile, signed a petition to end it.

[Starla Edge]

It's not prohibited to be open minded, but it's very, very much frowned upon. And so if you did hear me talk about the queer community, lgbtq, which at one point in time I just called them the Alphabet soup and refused to learn the letters. It was almost never positive. It was hateful and I'm sorry about it.

[Hanna Rosen]

But even back then, Shane and Starla did share one thing in common. Coach Walters was one of their favorite teachers. How would you compare him to other teachers in the school? Like, how would you place him in the teacher hierarchy? Say it again.

[Shane Hood]

He had an aura about him. That's for sure. So he wears tight suits. He also wore the shoes, you know, the just dress shoes. Very distinct.

[Hanna Rosen]

Yes.

[Starla Edge]

It was a very distinct sound you could hear about. It started about 90ft away, but it was clear.

[Hanna Rosen]

So what. Wait, what's the sound? It's like, did you ever hear a.

[Starla Edge]

Heel hit a hardwood floor?

[Shane Hood]

It sounds like high heels. Like, it really did sounds like high heels.

[Starla Edge]

And that's. We actually referred to them as high heels because it was hilarious.

[Hanna Rosen]

Did he know that people called them high heels?

[Shane Hood]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. So that's another reason why he became one of my favorites before I even had him as a teacher. He would do little roasts on Twitter. Like, you know how it was at the time of, like, when Jimmy Kimmel was doing, like the reading mean tweets thing, and he would do that about himself, about me.

[Ryan Walters]

So I'm gonna go onto my Twitter account right now and read some of them and see what my really nice students have said about me on Twitter.

[Hanna Rosen]

This is from a video that one of the students recorded of the roast.

[Ryan Walters]

Coach Walters, your pants are so tight they ripped at the basketball game. Coach Walters, is your beard a pumpkin? Halloween festival because it's patchy. That's pretty good. That's pretty good.

[Starla Edge]

We had an in person roast. I remember staying up all night writing about 20 jokes. And then she wrote a parody of a Taylor Swift song and sang it.

[Shane Hood]

Ian wrote the lyrics, I performed it and did the, you know, chords. Figured out the chords and everything.

[Starla Edge]

Teardrops on My Scantron was the name of that parody.

[Shane Hood]

I like to call this Teardrops on My Scantron. Oh, my gosh. So he won't see. He says we seem depressed. He's finally got it right. I wonder if he knows the quizzes that keep me up at night. I sign up for your class every year. Don't know why I do.

[Hanna Rosen]

I mean, there's like a lot of love that goes into that specific roast.

[Starla Edge]

You know, it was. There was. There was legitimate admiration between whoever took his class. Nobody I ever knew personally had a problem with him, which was weird because everybody had something, at least one thing bad to say about every other teacher in that high school. He was the only one that we saw was universally loved.

[Hanna Rosen]

Starla picked Walters as her homeroom teacher because he let her leave to get coffee as long as she brought one back for him. Starla says her girlfriend was in the same class, and they sometimes walked in holding hands. She said she and Walters would sometimes have coffee together and talk about school things and life things around that time Walters was named a finalist for Oklahoma Teacher of the Year. Starland Shane, remember he taught world religions and kept a Torah and a Quran in his classroom and that he skimmed through Christianity because this is the Bible Belt, they recall him saying.

[Shane Hood]

And that's what he said. He was like, you guys know about this? If you want to know more, go to frickin church. I'm pretty sure he said that.

[Starla Edge]

We had the history of Judea covered from his lectures. But after that, getting down to the principle beliefs, Christianity, it was not necessary to discuss that with students at McAllister High School in Pittsburgh County, Oklahoma.

[Hanna Rosen]

Do you recall him ever using the phrase American Exceptionalism? Do you recall him ever using the phrase or talking about the idea of American Exceptionalism?

[Shane Hood]

I don't know what that means.

[Hanna Rosen]

Okay.

[Starla Edge]

American exceptionalism is a school of thought that. And it's a mechanism that they've used in schools forever. But the best way I can describe it is that America is exceptional in everything it has ever done.

[Ryan Walters]

Ever.

[Hanna Rosen]

Was chosen by God.

[Starla Edge]

Was chosen by God.

[Shane Hood]

Yeah. So he would show us things that would prove that America was not this all great country.

[Starla Edge]

Weeks long discussions on Reconstruction and how it went.

[Hanna Rosen]

Awful.

[Starla Edge]

It was. Here's what you've been told, here's what actually happened. Really pretty much the first full length discussion about Reconstruction and its failures we had in the Walters classroom.

[Shane Hood]

His whole thing about wokeism I truly don't understand because he was woke. He was woke. He was a woke teacher.

[Starla Edge]

No other teacher would have taught us about Emmett Till. That would have never happened. Basically, if you took a class like that about Jim Crow era South, it was almost certainly like, here are the black codes, here's how they overcame them. And we've had racial equality ever since civil rights acts.

[Hanna Rosen]

Basically.

[Starla Edge]

You get a summary like that in Ryan Walter's class. We actually get to see pictures of a open casket Emmett Till funeral. Here's what happened in between them. So you never got a discussion like that? I don't remember the specifics, but I remember learning about Emmett Till specifically his classroom. And we would talk about the psychological horrors of segregation. I learned about the baby doll experiments from him where basically it found that black children would want to buy white dolls because they were better. You didn't get that discussion anywhere else.

[Shane Hood]

I don't know if he has like ever explicitly said this, but how there is like a thing where people think you go off to college and it brainwashes you and makes you liberal and everything. I would say that Ryan Walters class was the closest Thing I ever had to something like that in high school.

[Starla Edge]

Yeah, it would have made you more moderate at the very least to sit through one of his lectures.

[Hanna Rosen]

Walters had gone part time and then fully left McAllister High School during Shane and Starla's senior year. Starla says she mailed him a graduation announcement, but it was returned to sender soon after they graduated. Walter's political career was in full swing. He was still in a suit, still in those clickety clack dress shoes. For what it's worth, Walters has said he's the same guy who taught them history. He hasn't changed. But to them he was unrecognizable. Shane compared it to how you'd feel about your dad if he remarried a woman you didn't like. English teacher Summer Boamier did not stick around to see Walters overhaul of the public schools. She had taken the monumental personal step of moving away from Oklahoma, away from her mom and her sisters, and all the way to her own apartment in Brooklyn. She was working with the Brooklyn public library in 2023 when a hearing officer in Oklahoma concluded that she had in fact not violated HB 1775, the critical race theory ban. The hearing officer recommended that Boamier's teaching certificate not be revoked, which would mean that she could one day, if she wanted, go back to teaching.

[Ryan Walters]

I think we have got a quorum here, so if we can go ahead and I'll call us to order if you can do it.

[Hanna Rosen]

But Walters and the Oklahoma State Board ignored those recommendations and instead put it up to a vote.

[Ryan Walters]

This is possible action on the findings of fact and conclusions on the case of Summer Boimer.

[Hanna Rosen]

Boymier watched the proceedings from her laptop in New York.

[Summer Boamier]

I remember I was sitting on the floor of my Brooklyn studio apartment kind of watching the state school board meeting unfold. I make a motion to authorize the.

[Shane Hood]

Chair of the board to sign off.

[Summer Boamier]

On the proposed order for Summer Bozema.

[Hanna Rosen]

I'll second that.

[Summer Boamier]

You know, my name was finally on the agenda after, you know, years of stops and starts and things of that nature. And I remember that a vote was taken.

[Ryan Walters]

So we have a motion. Motion and a second. Do we have any further discussion?

[Summer Boamier]

There was practically no discussion. It was, yes, yes, yes.

[Hanna Rosen]

Deborah.

[Shane Hood]

Ms. Lepak.

[Hanna Rosen]

Aye. Ms. Cuba Doe.

[Shane Hood]

Aye.

[Hanna Rosen]

Ms. Wesson.

[Shane Hood]

Aye.

[Hanna Rosen]

Mr. Archer?

[Starla Edge]

Yes.

[Hanna Rosen]

Superintendent Walters?

[Ryan Walters]

Yes. Motion passes. Let's take a look there at item.

[Hanna Rosen]

G. In August of 2024, two years after Boamier resigned from her teaching position at Norman High School, the board voted unanimously to Revoke her license. A year after that, she was back in Oklahoma, back at her mom's house, talking to us about that moment. So once it all sunk in, then how did you feel?

[Summer Boamier]

You know, there's a part of me that feels and that felt and still does feel very angry. It feels inherently unjust. There's a part of me that feels incredibly sad and infuriated for my students. But I can also say that there was a sense of pride, in a way. My teaching certificate being unanimously revoked by that state Board of education in Oklahoma. If I could put that at the top of my resume, I would. It will always be a point of pride for me that that board chose to revoke my certificate.

[Hanna Rosen]

Why did you go back to Oklahoma?

[Summer Boamier]

I went back to Oklahoma because, you know, in. In all honesty, I was experiencing some very severe health issues. And, you know, it had been a very kind of fast. And what people need to understand is it was in the blink of an eye, really. Everything was different for me. And it was so much change, and it was so quick, and so much of it I really had to handle on my own. I did not do the best job of that. And it got to a point where I really needed to be. I could not care for myself, and I needed to be with people who could. And so that is something that I am still struggling with, because I am. Full disclosure, I'm not back here in Oklahoma of my own accord. I'm back here because I didn't. Because I want to. I want to. I want to live. And this is the way I ensure that happens.

[Hanna Rosen]

In Oklahoma. Boamier had family who could support her and keep her safe. Okay, Summer, I understand. I mean, it sounds like, intellectually, like, in terms of your convictions, like you didn't really regret anything you did. You did it very quickly. You weren't that ambivalent about it. But the cost was huge.

[Summer Boamier]

Yes.

[Hanna Rosen]

This school year, students started off with Ryan Walters fingerprints all over the curriculum. For example, for high school students, identify discrepancies in 2020 elections results by looking at graphs and other information, and identify the source of the COVID 19 pandemic from a Chinese lab. But then, just this week, the Oklahoma Supreme Court issued a temporary stay, pausing the standards while it considers a lawsuit challenging them. In that lawsuit, a group of parents, teachers, and religious leaders argued, among other things, that the standards require teachers to present biblical passages as historical facts. In a statement, Walters called the Oklahoma Supreme Court embarrassing and out of step with Oklahomans. But Walters can, for now, press ahead with an ideology test for new teachers. Any teachers moving in from, quote, places like California and New York will have to take an exam designed to guard against radical leftist ideology.

[Ryan Walters]

How are y' all doing?

[Hanna Rosen]

Hey, how are you?

[Ryan Walters]

Ryan Walters.

[Hanna Rosen]

Nice to meet you.

[Ryan Walters]

Nice to meet you.

[Hanna Rosen]

In our next episode, we talk to Walters.

[Ryan Walters]

Oh, man, that's a nice looking microphone right here.

[Hanna Rosen]

Walters explains what he's trying to do in Oklahoma schools and whether he is the same person who taught high school history to Starla and Shane and an awkward one. He addresses a scandal like a weird incident that took place only a few days before we got there. It involves something that Walters himself has brought up a lot. Tonight, Fox 23 talked to and confirmed with two members of the Oklahoma State Board of Education that they saw actually explicit images of naked women on a screen inside state Superintendent Ryan Walters office yesterday. Thanks so much for joining us at night.

[Ryan Walters]

Yeah, they're outrageous liars and we're about to be able to show that. So it shows you the lengths at which they will go.

[Hanna Rosen]

That's next time. This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Janae west with help from Rosie Hughes. It was edited by Jonathan Menhivar and Claudina Baid. Original music and mixing by Rob Smirciak, fact checking by Will Gordon and Luis Perales. Claudina Baid is the executive producer of Atlantic Audio and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor. If you're an Atlantic subscriber or you become one today, you can listen to episode two in this series now in Apple Podcasts. You can [e-mail] listener for non subscribers. Episode 2 will be available next Thursday. I'm Hanna Rosen. Thank you for listening.

[Ryan Walters]

Limu Game and Doug, Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat helping people custom their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu.

[Hanna Rosen]

Is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Ryan Walters]

Cut the camera. They see us.

[Hanna Rosen]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty, Liberty, Liberty Savings. Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.