David Letterman on the Threats to Late-Night Hosts

Summary

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Radio Atlantic: David Letterman on the Threats to Late-Night Hosts

Podcast: Radio Atlantic
Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Jeffrey Goldberg (Editor in Chief, The Atlantic)
Guest: David Letterman
Main Theme: The government’s growing influence over political comedy, the suspension of Jimmy Kimmel, and the broader threats to free speech and dissent in American media.

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Overview

In this urgently scheduled conversation at The Atlantic Festival, Jeffrey Goldberg interviews David Letterman after the shocking suspension of Jimmy Kimmel's late-night show. The episode centers around the chilling implications of government pressure on political comedy, the changing role of the FCC, and what the Kimmel incident signals for free speech, dissent, and media independence in the United States. Letterman, a legendary late-night host himself, shares historical context, personal reflection, and grave concerns about an era where satire and dissent are increasingly under threat.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Context: Kimmel's Suspension and FCC Intervention

[00:53 – 04:33]

• Jimmy Kimmel’s show was suspended by ABC over an inaccurate comment regarding the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk.
• Brendan Carr, FCC chairman, pressured ABC publicly: “We can do this the easy way or the hard way.”
• Trump, on Air Force One, suggested that networks’ licenses could be revoked for negative coverage:

  "I would think maybe their license should be taken away. It will be up to Brendan Carr." (Trump, [02:08])

2. Letterman’s Reaction to the Kimmel Case

[04:46 – 08:21]

• Letterman expresses deep concern for where this leads:

  "This is misery… You can't go around firing somebody because you're fearful or trying to suck up to an authoritarian criminal administration in the Oval Office. That's just not how this works." (Letterman, [04:46])

• Points out this is a pattern, referencing previous action against Stephen Colbert and a general crackdown on political comedy, describing the FCC’s new posture as something out of “a Mario Puzo novel.”

  "The FCC is... We can do things the easy way. We can do things the hard way. Who is hiring these goons? Mario Puzo, the FCC." ([05:30])

3. The History of Political Comedy and the Presidency

[07:01 – 08:50]

• Letterman recounts decades of satire under both Republican and Democratic presidents, noting he never faced government pressure:

  "Attacked these men mercilessly… Not once were we squeezed by anyone from any governmental agency, let alone the dreaded FCC." ([07:23])

• Emphasizes the resilience of the presidency:

  “The institution of the President... ought to be bigger than a guy doing a talk show.” ([08:31])

4. The Broader Threat—Managed Media and Authoritarian Drift

[09:11 – 13:27]

• Goldberg and Letterman discuss the dangers when “managed media” becomes the norm and public passivity in the face of authoritarian maneuvers.

  “It would be hilarious if it wasn't all leading to something that... we won't recover from.” (Letterman, [09:11])

• Letterman says:

  “I think the midterm elections will be elections in name only.” ([09:17])

5. On Comedians’ Mistakes vs. Journalistic Accuracy

[09:39 – 10:27]

• Letterman states comics will get things wrong sometimes—perfection isn’t the point:

  “In the name of comedy... Not once were we squeezed... Accurately, or perhaps inaccurately… Mistakes are going to be made.” ([09:48])

6. Passivity and the American Public’s Response

[12:06 – 15:32]

• Concern that Americans remain unbothered by mounting governmental aggression, as long as daily comforts persist.

  “As long as there are an abundance of cheap calories, reasonably priced gasoline and endless video diversion, it's very hard to imagine this country right now sort of saying, wait a second…” (Goldberg, [16:26])

• Letterman underscores his confusion:

  “Why aren't people upset by this or a half a dozen other things?” ([17:09])

7. What Is the Line Between “Soft” and “Hard” Authoritarianism?

[13:00 – 15:49]

• Both struggle to define where the tipping point lies—a “bright line” where Americans say ‘enough’:

  “What is the bright line between soft authoritarianism, preemptive authoritarianism?” (Goldberg, [15:32])

• Letterman quips:

  “Hopefully we've learned something here today.” ([15:49])

8. Erosion of Journalistic Standards and Institutional Safeguards

[14:38 – 19:03]

• Goldberg and Letterman mourn the decline of media independence, distinguishing between the fates of the New York Times and the now-weakened Washington Post.

  “There were these two standards of journalism... now one is gone… You're lucky if you get the crossword and weather, you know, out of the Washington Post.” (Letterman, [15:01])

• The need for strong media owners who defend the freedom and mission of journalists was highlighted:

  “The whole country is built on this premise.” (Goldberg, [14:43])

9. The Last Line of Defense: Institutions and Civic Courage

[18:12 – 20:03]

• Goldberg argues for continued hope in media independence and a judiciary that still functions, but notes the legislative branch is failing in its constitutional role.
• Points to Mike Pence’s certification of the 2020 election as an example of rare, required civic courage.

  “Sometimes a person's whole life can be judged by what they do in one single moment of their life… I have this hope... there are many, many more people like Mike Pence. We haven't seen enough of them...” (Goldberg, [19:03])

10. Legacy and Personal Stakes

[20:03 – 20:12]

• Letterman reflects on what’s at stake for the next generation:

  “I'll speak for everybody in this room who has kids. I don't so much care about me. I've had my fun. I got a 21-year-old son. I'm worried about him and his family.” ([20:03])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the FCC’s new role:

  “The FCC... we can do things the easy way, we can do things the hard way. Who is hiring these goons?... When I was a kid... you take a test... you have your third phone radio broadcasting license. That's what the FCC does... I don't know what is going on here.” — David Letterman ([05:30])

• On the institution of the presidency:

  “The institution of the President of the United States ought to be bigger than a guy doing a talk show.” — David Letterman ([08:31])

• On the inertia of the American public:

  “As long as there are an abundance of cheap calories, reasonably priced gasoline and endless video diversion, it's very hard to imagine this country right now sort of saying, wait a second...” — Jeffrey Goldberg ([16:26])

• On media responsibility:

  “Either you stay true to your mission and just say what you think is true, what you know to be true, or you don’t. I’m personally very surprised at the large numbers of companies that don’t have to fold. It’s just about money.” — Jeffrey Goldberg ([13:38])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:53] – News summary: Kimmel suspended, FCC and Trump involvement
• [04:46] – Letterman reacts: “This is misery…”
• [07:23] – Letterman on never being pressured during his tenure
• [09:17] – Letterman foresees sham elections
• [13:00] – What is the line between authoritarianism and dictatorship?
• [15:32] – The frog analogy and dangers of gradual slide
• [16:26] – Daily comforts as a barrier to protest
• [18:12] – What can be done: hope in remaining free institutions
• [19:03] – Mike Pence as example of civic courage
• [20:03] – Letterman shares his fears for his son’s generation

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Tone and Atmosphere

Throughout, the conversation is frank and urgent but inflected with Letterman’s trademark humor. Gallows humor and exasperated asides punctuate deep concern for American democracy. The tone is both alarmed and stubbornly hopeful.

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Summary

This episode of Radio Atlantic is a rare, clarifying conversation between two sharp observers of American culture. The fate of late-night comedy becomes a lens for examining the health of democracy, media independence, and civil liberties in the U.S., with Letterman’s personal history illustrating just how swiftly norms have changed. The episode offers a bracing warning: when political humor and factual missteps become grounds for government suppression and corporate capitulation, every American should pay attention.

For listeners craving both context and candor on the intersection of entertainment, politics, and constitutional values, this episode is unmissable.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

The FCC has historically acted as a kind of enforcer of community standards. They've doled out fines for saying the F word, for example, or wardrobe malfunctions, factual mistakes, errors in judgment, bad jokes. That has not traditionally been part of their job until this week. As you may have already heard, Comedian Jimmy Kimmel's late night show was suspended by ABC for comments he made on the show about the assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk. Here's the timing of events, which is important. Kimmel says something inaccurate about the guy who killed Charlie Kirk. Shortly after, the chairman of the fcc, Brendan Carr, gets on a right wing podcast and suggests that ABC and its affiliates take steps against Kimmel, saying, quote, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. The network, which relies on stations carrying their programming, wasted little time. That same day, they pulled Kimmel's show off the air indefinitely. Here's what Trump said when a reporter asked him about it on Air Force One.

[C]

I read someplace that the networks were 97% against me. I got 97% negative. And yet I won it easily won all seven swing states. Populace won everything. And if they're 97% against, they give me only bad publicity or press. I mean, they're getting a license. I would think maybe their license should be taken away. It will be up to Brendan Karr.

[A]

I'm Hanna Rosen. This is Radio Atlantic. On Thursday, Atlantic Editor in Chief Jeffrey Goldberg sat down with exactly the person you want to hear from about what it means that the government is weighing in whether comedians who do political comedy can make a slightly wrong, mediocre joke. Retired Late show host David Letterman may have very well invented or at least perfected the genre of pushing the political envelope for late night television. They spoke at the Atlantic Festival on the heels of a conversation with playwright Ayad Akhtar about art and AI. Here are Goldberg and Letterman.

[B]

Just so you understand. So, as you know, David Letterman was coming to do an interview here, but given the events of the last 18 hours or so, we asked him if he would come out a little bit early and talk to me about the events of the last night. So David Letterman is going to come out and EYAD is going to switch places with him. Thank you. Eyad. Ladies and gentlemen, David Letterman.

[C]

How you doing? Nice to meet you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Wait a minute. I was hoping there'd be a second wave. You're all right. Nice to see you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Thanks for doing this.

[C]

I was going to talk about the playwright in the Age of AI. What the hell?

[B]

Yeah, I know, I know. We totally flipped the script on you. I'm sorry. I'm just going to stay out here for a few minutes and talk to you about this, and then you're going to interview your guest. Yeah, but look, we saw what happened last night. It follows what happened to Colbert. You're the godfather of the genre.

[C]

Yes, I am.

[B]

Yeah. You're the godfather of the genre.

[C]

The great grandfather.

[B]

Tell us. I wasn't going there. Tell us what you think about what happened last night to Jimmy Kimmel.

[C]

Well, this is misery. And in the world of somebody who is an authoritarian, maybe a dictatorship, sooner or later everyone is going to be touched. But this is me for 30 years. I did this for a living. So I see this happen. They took care of Colbert. That was rude. That was inexcusable. The man deserves a great deal of credit. He's in the hall of Fame nine times. And to be manipulated like that, because the. The Ellison family. I didn't want to trouble Donald Trump with this move. So they got rid of him. Not only got rid of him, got rid of the whole franchise. You're not going to have to worry about anything, Larry. It's all gone. It's fine. Good night. And then my good friend, Jimmy Kimmel, I. You know, I just. I feel bad about this because we all see where this is going, correct? It's managed media and it's no good. It's silly. It's. It's ridiculous. And you can't go around firing somebody because you're fearful or trying to suck up to an authoritarian criminal administration in the Oval Office. That's just not how this works. Ten years ago, I was smart enough to cancel myself. But the other thing is the fcc, this guy, Brendan Carr. Yes. So this guy. The FCC is. We can do things the easy way. We can do things the hard way. Who is hiring these goons? Mario Puzo, the fcc. We're not happy until you're not happy. For God's sakes. When I was a kid, I was like 20 years old and I wanted to work at a radio station, so I went to Chicago to the fcc. You take a test, you pass the test. You have your third phone radio broadcasting license. That's what the FCC does. If you're a 50,000 watt clear channel radio station, once a year they'll come and check your dials to make sure you're not broadcasting at 55,000 watts. And God forbid you are, then you get an $8 fine. That's the. That is the FCC. I don't know what is going on here. This.

[B]

Let me ask you this. You worked through five or six presidential.

[C]

Oh, my God. And yes, this. A whole list. It started with Jimmy Carter and your.

[B]

First show in the Carter era.

[C]

Yes, that's right. And then all the way right up through Barack Obama. And was there one after that that I worked for? When did I leave?

[B]

Possibly. I don't know personally. I. When did you. Ten years ago, you said, hang on.

[C]

I got a list. Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George Bush senior. Bill Clinton, George Bush ii, Barack Obama. Yeah. And attacked these men mercilessly. Never once. But, well, Jimmy Carter, not so much, because what can you say about Jimmy Carter? He was just a sweet guy. But everybody else, we really went to work on, and I can remember Bill Clinton, we really went to work on. And then it got so it was like, whoa, this is a gift. What are we going to do? Bill Clinton, he's out of office after eight years of Bill Clinton. And then George Bush came along, and it was easy motoring after that. But the point is beating up on these people, rightly or wrongly, accurately, or perhaps inaccurately, in the name of comedy. Not once were we squeezed by anyone from any governmental agency, let alone the dreaded fcc.

[B]

Republican, Democrat, never.

[C]

Well, I will say we probably went easy on Barack Obama because I kind of like the guy.

[B]

But never a call from the White House, nothing. Intimation.

[C]

No, we never. Because everybody sort of understood. In the name of humor, in the name of commenting on what's going on in the world. Cultural events. Why not? And by the way, the institution of the President of the United States ought to be bigger than a guy doing a talk show. You know, it just really ought to be bigger.

[B]

Well, it was really interesting last night. Late at night, Trump is tweeting or truth, socialing from Windsor Castle after a steak dinner hosted by the King of England about his. In doing his late night television show critique. I mean it's. What do you. It feels like we're living in a simulation when you think about that.

[C]

Well, it would be hilarious if it wasn't all leading to something that. From which we won't recover.

[B]

Well, what do you think? What do you think it's leading to?

[C]

I think it's easily. First of all, here's the thing that's up my nose these days. By God, we got to get to work on those midterms. Well, I think the midterm elections will be elections in name only. I'm sorry. The Republicans have raised untold billions of dollars. The Democrats, I think, are staggering a bit behind in terms of fundraising.

[B]

Let me ask you about the actual joke or commentary that Jimmy Kimmel made the other night. It actually was inaccurate, I mean, recognizing that he's a comedian, not a journalist.

[C]

Yes, exactly. Right. We all make mistakes. I mean, good Lord. And by the way, the condition of the United States of America has not been perfect from the time I was born to this very day. And before that. We know that the goal is not perfection. Mistakes are going to be made. Hopefully it will improve. I think, sadly, it's not going to improve. I'm not exactly in full mind understanding of what Jimmy said, what he was trying to say and what mistake was made. This is something that was predicted by our president and right after Stephen Colbert. Colbert got walked off. So you're telling me that this isn't premeditated at some level?

[B]

Well, I mean, he also announced that Jimmy Fallon and Seth Meyer were next. And, and Jimmy Fallon, this is my own view, is not quite as sharp tongued as Jimmy.

[C]

And why, why is that, Jeff? Why do you think that is? No, but has something to do with iq, is that what you're saying?

[B]

I am. He has a different personality. He's just a different kind of comedian.

[C]

By the way, isn't this guy great on Friday nights?

[B]

Look at that. Thank you very much.

[C]

Me and my grandparents really loved him.

[B]

I told him he's way too young to watch Washington with the Atlantic. But.

[C]

But this was, you know, when this thing happened last night. And by the way, I have heard from Jimmy. He was nice enough to text me this morning and he's sitting up in bed taking nourishment. He's going to be fine. But I said to my wife, I said, I don't know what to think or say about this situation. I wish in the world. And this is what's great about New York. I wish in the world I could talk to Jeff Goldberg. Here I am talking to Jeff Goldberg. I mean, honest to God, isn't it amazing how these things work?

[B]

It's all serendipity here. Keep going on this theme of this dissent, because one of the things I think a lot of us are wondering about. I'm surprised at the number of hardcore moves that this administration has made in many, many different directions at once, including dismantling the cdc, as just one example, dismantling USAID in every direction.

[C]

You don't like the labor numbers, you fire the person reading the labor, reading the number.

[B]

So the question is, it does seem, and I just want your analysis of this, it does seem that there's a kind of passivity in the country about these things. People are saying, well, Jimmy Kimmel did. I mean, I have to ask you that question. But Jimmy Kimmel did get it wrong. So the company, we heard Mike Pence earlier say, well, look, it's a private company. Jimmy Kimmel doesn't have a First Amendment right to work for that company. He didn't exactly deal with the question of the pressure put on by the fcc. But what is your diagnosis? What is the red line for the American people who I've believed, like having a First Amendment historically.

[C]

Oh, really?

[B]

And today? No, I mean, I've always operated this notion that people think it's pretty good that you can get to say what you want in America.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So what is going on here?

[C]

Well, I would ask you, what are the determining landmarks here? Authoritarianism. How is that different from a dictatorship? Does authoritarianism breed dictatorship, a special category? Where are we on that progress? Because I think we're inexorably headed in that direction. So I need you to tell me something encouraging that I can take home that will settle down. My wife.

[B]

You're not. This is not rhetorical. You're at.

[C]

I'm asking.

[B]

Oh, you're a shit.

[C]

He said shit. Oh, my God. The Atlantic Monthly guy said shit. Yes. There's your First Amendment, ladies and gentlemen.

[B]

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Jo. I, as I said to Ayad, we don't have to worry. We don't worry about the fcc. Look, we don't worry. I mean, and I have to say this in all seriousness to a group of people who subscribe to the Atlantic and read the Atlantic, look, you know, there's only two ways to approach. I'm not trying to sound like self righteous or whatever, but I'm not There's only two ways to approach this moment. Either you stay true to your mission and just say what you think is true, what you know to be true, or you don't. I'm personally very surprised at the large numbers of companies that don't have to fold. It's just about money. I mean, nobody yet is threatening to send them to the Gulag. But the pursuit of money has distorted the reactions of the people who know better, including the people who employ Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert. And by the way, a newspaper that's based in Washington that we can talk about at another time.

[C]

What happened to that rag?

[B]

There are only two kinds of owners. I mean, we happen to have a good one, but there's two kinds of owners. And they're the owners who don't realize that their one responsibility is to protect the journalists, to allow them to say exactly what they. The whole country is built on this premise.

[C]

This is exactly what I'm alluding to. There was these two standards of journalism in the United States, the Post and the Times. And one could think, okay, these will stabilize. These are people who represent the truth and if they get it wrong, they apologize and we'll make changes. And now one is, one is gone. I have family members who live in the Washington, D.C. area. And you're lucky if you get the crossword and weather, you know, out of the Washington Post.

[B]

To answer your question briefly, there is no answer. What is the bright line between soft authoritarianism, preemptive authoritarianism? Yes, we. By the way, the analogy of the boiling frog is actually incorrect. Frogs do try to hop out of water, it turns out.

[C]

But hopefully we've learned something here today.

[B]

But every day brings a. Every day brings this almost cognitive assault.

[C]

How do people, you think, okay, I'm still okay, I can still have breakfast. I still have a big screen tv, so things are okay. At what point do people who should be affected by this as early on when. And the people that. And again, things were not good for a huge part of this country and they're not going to get better for that same group. So at what point do the doors open in the mind of average Americans and their petrified.

[B]

As long, you know, this is the problem is as long as there are an abundance of cheap calories, reasonably priced gasoline and endless video diversion, it's very hard to imagine this country right now sort of saying, wait a second, having a functioning cdc, fda, usaid, National Weather Service, et cetera. I don't. This is the main question that I ask and I think a Lot of our journalists at the Atlantic ask is like, when is this going to penetrate? Or when is the idea that, like, we've always believed that vaccination was a settled issue in America since the time of George Washington, as I mentioned earlier, it turns out that it's not settled. That doesn't seem to upset people enough.

[C]

I know this is the great mystery. Why aren't people upset by this or a half a dozen other things that are upset?

[B]

You know what maybe it's like, and I'm not comparing any one country to another country, but maybe it's like Tahrir Square in Cairo in 2011. Nobody thought that was gonna happen until it happened. And I don't know what the thing is.

[C]

This was the Arab Spring.

[B]

The Arab Spring. I don't know what the thing is. You know, you would think that it's when the government fires the people who track Ebola, which is not a partisan issue. You would think that many people would say, you know what? It's probably better to know where the Ebola is. And that hasn't happened. So we're all waiting to see what the reaction is. But we also understand that people in the Trump administration.

[C]

So let's just say there is an awareness.

[B]

I know that we have to bring out your actual guests.

[C]

I'm calling the shots here, pal. But let's just say there is an actual awareness beyond what you and I believe and can imagine. Let's see. Everybody is aware. What do we do?

[B]

Well, look, we have. We still have a free media. I mean, we get to say, well, large swaths of it. Yeah, yeah. The world's biggest newspaper, the New York Times, is independent of what's happening in Washington.

[C]

How many times has the president sued them?

[B]

I understand that they're under pressure, but again, it comes back to, well, look.

[C]

At what happened to the Washington Post.

[B]

Well, exactly. No, no, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying we're not in trouble.

[C]

Thank God for your magazine.

[B]

Thank God. Yes, I guess that is worthy of a pause. But. And look, we have an independent judiciary. What we don't have right now is a legislative branch that is functioning according to the demands of the Constitution. That is the biggest troublesome fact. But we do have an independent judiciary.

[C]

Will you agree that checks and balances have. They're pretty anemic now, I agree that.

[B]

Everything is under pressure right now. And ultimately. And look, coming back to the Mike Pence interview before, you know, and I hear a lot of things about Mike Pence, and I understand there are a lot of people who disagree with Mike Pence and his worldview. I would say this. Sometimes a person's whole life can be judged by what they do in one single moment of their life. Mike Pence said on that terrible day, nope, this election, this was a free and fair election. The results should be ratified. I don't care that the person who made me vice president wants to kill me. I'm going to do my constitutional duty. And I have this hope, and I think you do, too. Maybe you don't. Well, all right. No, I have this hope that. I have this hope that there are many, many more people like Mike Pence. We haven't seen enough of them in the current manifestation.

[C]

What are they waiting on?

[B]

That's the question. That's the question.

[C]

And by the way, I'll speak for everybody in this room who has kids. I don't so much care about me. I've had my fun. I got a 21 year old son. I'm worried about him and his family.

[B]

And that's, that's completely legitimate. And I am. Now I'm going to leave you. So you can do.

[C]

It's been fun though, right?

[B]

You know, it's been great. I appreciate it. Thank you for coming to the Atlantic.

[C]

This is a great pleasure to me.

[B]

It's good, it's great, it's great. And now you're going to introduce your guest. Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye. Bye.

[A]

This episode of Radio Atlantic was produced by Kevin Townsend. It was edited by Claudina Baid. Sam Fentress fact checked. Rob Smersiak engineered and provided original music. Claudina Baid is the executive producer of Atlantic Audio and Andrea Valdez is our managing editor. Listeners, you can watch and listen to more from the Atlantic Festival by visiting the Atlantic. And if you like what you hear on Radio Atlantic, you can support our work and the work of all Atlantic journalists when you subscribe to The Atlantic. @theatlantic.com listener. I'm Hanna Rosen. Thank you for listening.

[C]

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