Episode Overview

Podcast: Radio Atlantic
Episode: Is the U.S. Running Venezuela or Not?
Date: January 5, 2026
Host: Hanna Rosin
Guests: Michael Shearer (The Atlantic staff writer), Vivian Salama (The Atlantic staff writer)

This episode unpacks the dramatic recent U.S. military raid in Venezuela that resulted in the capture of President Nicolás Maduro. Host Hanna Rosin and Atlantic writers Michael Shearer and Vivian Salama explore the aftermath: shifting White House rhetoric, U.S. goals in Venezuela, the question of who now governs the country, and what this bold intervention means for U.S. foreign policy in the Americas and beyond. The conversation dives into ambiguous American intentions, the precarious situation on the ground, and the global message sent by this powerful display of military might.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Raid and Its Aftermath

• Operation Details: The U.S. raid was meticulously planned and executed, with Delta Force capturing Maduro and his wife. President Trump watched the operation unfold and quickly posted triumphant images to social media.

  • “By all accounts, the US Military's raid in Venezuela on Saturday was efficient, clean, meticulously planned.” (Hanna, 00:07)

• Post-Raid Confusion & Mixed Messaging:

  • Trump celebrated the operation, but follow-up messaging grew muddled. He hinted the U.S. might be running Venezuela, spoke about oil interests, and even referenced Greenland, raising questions about America’s intentions and plans.
  • “If the goal of the Venezuelan raid was to capture a defendant wanted in US courts for suspected narco terror, then mission accomplished. ...But in subsequent interviews...the president sounds like he's constantly shifting the goalposts.” (Hanna, 00:25)

2. Who Actually Runs Venezuela Now?

• Delsey Rodriguez, Acting President: Trump claimed cooperation with new acting president Delsey Rodriguez, but Rodriguez promptly rebuffed U.S. statements, asserting Maduro was still president and denouncing U.S. “colonialism.”

  • “If she doesn't do what's right, she is going to pay a very big price, probably bigger than Maduro, which was an outright threat.” (Michael, 02:48)

• Rodriguez Omitted from Indictment:

  • Notably, Rodriguez was spared from the DOJ's indictment that included other regime officials, suggesting a possible understanding or hope for cooperation.
  • “She was notably left out. And that suggested...that there was probably some sort of cooperation or understanding between her and the US at least for the time being.” (Vivian, 03:28)

• Ambiguity of Plans:

  • Neither the administration nor Rodriguez’s faction released clear plans for Venezuela’s immediate future. Secretive “options” are discussed more than solid plans, especially regarding military and opposition dynamics.
  • “We say, what is it? And they brush us off. Folks I’ve spoken to in the administration say it’s options, not so much a plan.” (Vivian, 09:12)

3. U.S. Foreign Policy Contradictions & Evolution

• Victory Laps vs. Uncertainty:

  • Trump administration celebrated the operation as decisive, but ignored complexities—fragmented military, armed groups (colectivos), persistent corruption.
  • “They all basically in the senior ranks of leadership declared victory at that point…what that leaves out…is that we don't know what the outcome is.” (Michael, 06:05)

• America’s Changing Doctrine:

  • Trump is now openly embracing regime change and economic intervention in contradiction with his earlier “no nation-building” stance.
  • “He said, well, in the case of Venezuela, there was nothing wrong with either regime change or nation building.” (Michael, 13:24)
  • “He is trying to project maximum strength, maximum power. And that's how he does deals.” (Michael, 13:54)

• Emphasis on Unpredictability:

  • Trump’s unpredictability is cited as both a deterrent and a potential destabilizer internationally.
  • “He likes that, to convey that sense of unpredictability. It's almost a superpower, if you think about it.” (Vivian, 14:44)

4. The Opposition's Role and Risks

• Opposition Leadership:

  • Opposition figure Maria Machado, Nobel laureate, was dismissed by Trump as "a nice woman who lacks respect." The U.S. backs exiled Edmondo Gonzalez as legitimate president, but refrains from strong endorsements.
  • “The administration has thrown its back behind Gonzalez. But you will not hear them really saying that explicitly.” (Vivian, 10:50)

• Challenges Ahead:

  • Venezuela faces deep-rooted instability: economic collapse, criminal gangs, armed collectives, and fractured military. All guests warn of likely turmoil before any sustainable transition.
  • “The likelihood of things getting worse before they get better are very, very high.” (Vivian, 11:54)

5. Oil, Economics, and American Intentions

• Trump's Oil Focus:

  • Trump refers repeatedly to "Venezuela stealing our oil,” referencing past nationalization and lost U.S. business. He frames the intervention as a way to regain access to vast oil reserves for U.S. companies.
  • “President Trump essentially has come to the conclusion that the US was robbed of those projects...he says, we're there, we're going to take the oil.” (Vivian, 18:40)

• Logistical and Economic Realities:

  • Despite rhetoric, restoring Venezuela’s oil sector would require “minimum a decade...and tens of billions of dollars.”
  • “To rebuild Venezuela's economy through ...oil industry, it needs minimum, a decade...and so there’s so many obstacles...” (Vivian, 20:47)

6. Signals to the World and Broader Implications

• Global Perception:

  • The U.S. action sends a dual message: it emboldens some (raises possibilities for imitators like Russia in Ukraine or China in Taiwan) but also intimidates others due to U.S. unpredictability and military capability.
  • “Putin is scared shitless after what happened to Maduro...the US Military just staged something that is making every adversary terrified.” (Vivian, 25:01)

• Revisiting Spheres of Influence:

  • Trump's actions revive “Monroe Doctrine” logic: asserting U.S. primacy in the Western Hemisphere and warning rivals to stay out.
  • “He wanted American control over the entire hemisphere...guaranteed loans to Argentina...he’s taken with what Putin's view of the way great powers should work.” (Michael, 21:58 & 23:17)

• Greenland as the Next Target?

  • The administration repeatedly asserts U.S. interest in acquiring Greenland, further signaling an aggressive, hemispheric vision.
  • “Trump has been crystal clear since he took office the second time that Greenland will come under American control one way or another.” (Michael, 27:24)

7. Trump's Ambition: Running "the Country and the World"

• Shift from First Presidency:
  • In his own words, Trump now believes he holds both national and global authority, operating with greater confidence and ambition for reshaping the world order.
  • “This time I run the country and the world.” (Trump, recalled by Michael, 28:08)
  • “He has, from the moment he came in, sought to remake the global order in a way that he just didn't have the ambition the first time.” (Michael, 28:25)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Michael Shearer:

  • “If she doesn't do what's right, she is going to pay a very big price, probably bigger than Maduro.” (02:48)
  • “They all basically in the senior ranks of leadership declared victory at that point...what that leaves out...is that we don't know what the outcome is.” (06:05)
  • “He is trying to project maximum strength, maximum power. And that's how he does deals.” (13:54)
  • “Trump has been crystal clear since he took office the second time that Greenland will come under American control one way or another.” (27:24)

• Vivian Salama:

  • “She was notably left out [of the indictment]...that suggested...there was probably some sort of cooperation.” (03:28)
  • “Does the US Have a plan for the day after Maduro? They talk about a number of options, but...others say there's a plan, it's just being kept very secret.” (09:08)
  • “The likelihood of things getting worse before they get better are very, very high.” (11:54)
  • "Putin is scared shitless after what happened to Maduro...the US Military just staged something that is making every adversary terrified." (25:01)

• Hanna Rosin:

  • On the contradictions: “Trump once said, I run the country and the world. Is he starting to figure out that second part?” (17:24)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:07 — Episode introduction & outline of raid on Maduro
• 02:48 — Michael reports Trump’s implicit threat to Rodriguez
• 03:28–07:35 — Rodriguez’s ambiguous role & U.S. administration’s lack of clear plan
• 09:00–10:01 — U.S. reluctance to explain "day after Maduro" scenario
• 13:03–15:00 — Trump’s changed stance on regime change, unpredictability as strategy
• 18:13–21:36 — Venezuela’s oil: past nationalization, U.S. ambitions, and practical obstacles
• 23:05–26:40 — America’s hemispheric doctrine, global messaging, potential copycat actions
• 27:24 — Trump’s ambitions towards Greenland
• 28:00–28:25 — Trump’s “I run the country and the world” mindset

Summary for New Listeners

This episode offers an incisive look at the uncertainties unleashed by the U.S. capture of Venezuelan president Nicolás Maduro, exposing both the absence of a clear administration plan and the White House’s shifting rationales—from anti-narco terror operation to hemispheric economic ambitions. The Atlantic’s correspondents illuminate the chaos among Venezuelan leaders, the real risks of instability on the ground, and the reemergence of 19th-century “spheres of influence” logic in U.S. policy. Peppered with candid on- and off-the-record presidential quotes, this conversation delivers a layered look at how the U.S. now wields unpredictable power—both stabilizing and destabilizing on the world stage—while the fate of Venezuela and the boundaries of U.S. ambition remain to be seen.