Podcast Summary: Radio Atlantic – "The Patriotic Punk"
Episode Details:
- Title: The Patriotic Punk
- Host: Jeffrey Goldberg (Editor in Chief, The Atlantic)
- Guest: Ken Casey (Frontman, Dropkick Murphys)
- Release Date: July 3, 2025
1. Introduction to Dropkick Murphys and Jeffrey Goldberg’s Interest
The episode begins with Hanna Rosen introducing Jeffrey Goldberg, who expresses his unexpected passion for Celtic punk music, specifically highlighting his admiration for Dropkick Murphys led by Ken Casey.
Jeffrey Goldberg [01:16]: “I listen to them in the morning when I'm trying to wake up... they're good songs to listen to in the morning when you're trying to get motivated.”
2. The Intersection of Music and Politics
Goldberg delves into his fascination with how Dropkick Murphys integrate explicit political messages into their music, distinguishing them from other bands that might use politics merely as a backdrop.
Jeffrey Goldberg [02:07]: “I admire people who try to say something explicit with their music... not very interesting lyrically.”
Ken Casey elaborates on the band's commitment to political expression, noting the balance between maintaining musical integrity and conveying their beliefs.
3. Origins of "Shipping up to Boston" and Woody Guthrie’s Influence
A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the creation of "Shipping up to Boston," a pivotal song for the band. Casey recounts how Woody Guthrie’s unpublished lyrics influenced the track, emphasizing the unique blend of brevity and depth in its composition.
Ken Casey [04:38]: “... we had written the music to 'Shipping up to Boston' and were just waiting to put the words in. When we chose Woody's lyrics, there were no other lyrics to add.”
4. The Challenges of Creating Political Art
Goldberg and Casey discuss the inherent difficulties in making political music, particularly the risk of alienating portions of the audience. Casey reflects on the commercial pressures versus the desire to remain authentic in their messaging.
Ken Casey [07:58]: “I say, listen, you don't like our opinion, you don't like what we have to say... These core beliefs drive our music.”
5. Engaging with Politically Divergent Fans
The dialogue shifts to interactions with fans holding opposing political views. Casey shares personal anecdotes about confronting or choosing to ignore fans wearing MAGA shirts, highlighting the complexities of maintaining respect amid political tensions.
Ken Casey [11:25]: “I still think that if you're willing to sport a shirt, that for a guy who is doing what he's doing now, you certainly don't have my love and devotion...”
6. A Wager That Bridges Political Divides
A pivotal moment in the episode is the recounting of a wager between Casey and a fan wearing a MAGA shirt. This interaction underscores the potential for respectful dialogue even amidst deep-seated political differences.
Ken Casey [22:34]: “And I kept it respectful. When he lost the bet because the shirt was made in Nicaragua... he said, 'I've been coming to see you guys for 20 years. I consider you family.'”
Ken Casey [22:52]: “I have a few friends like that... ready to have some civil discussion and laugh about it a little bit.”
7. The Impact of Political Divisions on Personal Relationships
Casey reflects on how political shifts, especially the rise of Trumpism, have strained personal relationships and altered the landscape of his fan base. He acknowledges the loss of friendships yet emphasizes the importance of staying true to his values.
Ken Casey [24:16]: “I've definitely lost peripheral friends and my closer friends that have gone MAGA... But we can stay cordial.”
8. The New Album: Goals and Political Messaging
The conversation turns to Dropkick Murphys' latest album, emphasizing its unabashed political stance. Casey explains that the album's authenticity stems from addressing real-time issues rather than avoiding them, ensuring that their music remains a true reflection of their experiences and beliefs.
Ken Casey [25:32]: “If we wrote 13 songs about the situation... but that felt authentic for us because we do live our lives right.”
9. Concluding Thoughts: Hope and Unity Amidst Division
In wrapping up, Casey shares a cautious optimism about overcoming political divides, advocating for unity based on shared values of freedom, kindness, and dignity. He expresses a desire for policies that unite rather than fragment society.
Ken Casey [26:56]: “I think that's what it might take... the policies of the Trump administration... should unite anybody that's center left and far progressive.”
Jeffrey Goldberg commends Casey for his unwavering commitment to his principles, highlighting the importance of artists using their platforms responsibly amidst societal chaos.
Key Takeaways:
- Authentic Political Expression: Dropkick Murphys prioritize genuine political messaging in their music, even at the risk of alienating some fans.
- Balancing Art and Commerce: Casey emphasizes the tension between maintaining commercial success and staying true to political convictions.
- Respectful Engagement: The wager story illustrates that respectful interactions can bridge even the most polarized political divides.
- Impact on Personal Relationships: Political shifts have personal ramifications, affecting friendships and fan dynamics.
- Hope for Unity: Despite deep divisions, there is a call for unity based on shared human values rather than partisan lines.
Notable Quotes:
- Jeffrey Goldberg [07:05]: “Writing political music is a hard slog through Muddy Waters.”
- Ken Casey [22:34]: “I have a few friends like that... ready to have some civil discussion and laugh about it a little bit.”
Conclusion: In "The Patriotic Punk," Jeffrey Goldberg engages in a profound conversation with Ken Casey, exploring the intricate dance between music and politics. The episode sheds light on the challenges and triumphs of using art as a vehicle for political expression, the personal costs of such choices, and the enduring hope for dialogue and understanding in a divided landscape.