Radio Atlantic: "Trump Is Enjoying Himself" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: April 28, 2025
Host: Hanna Rosen
Guests: Jeffrey Goldberg (Editor-in-Chief, The Atlantic), Ashley Parker (Staff Writer, The Atlantic), Michael Shearer (Staff Writer, The Atlantic)

Introduction

In the April 28, 2025 episode of Radio Atlantic, host Hanna Rosen delves deep into the evolving dynamics between former President Donald Trump and The Atlantic's editorial team. Titled "Trump Is Enjoying Himself", the episode explores the intricate interactions following Trump's controversial stance towards the magazine and its journalists. Through candid conversations and behind-the-scenes insights, the episode sheds light on Trump's strategies, the Atlantic's journalistic challenges, and the broader implications for American politics and media.

Main Interview with Jeffrey Goldberg (00:47 – 11:54)

Hanna Rosen opens the discussion with Jeffrey Goldberg, Editor-in-Chief of The Atlantic, focusing on a pivotal meeting between Goldberg and Trump in the Oval Office.

Meeting Dynamics and Initial Impressions

• Hanna Rosen (00:47): "Jeff, you get invited to the Oval Office."

• Jeffrey Goldberg (01:05): Describes the meeting as largely unhostile, contrary to Trump's public persona. "He was charming, focused, and mainly I was there with two writers who were actually writing a very large piece for us, so they had to drive the interview. But there was no hostility."

• Notable Quote (04:03): "He knows how to draw attention."

Goldberg recounts Trump's contradictory behavior—initial public hostility on platforms like Truth Social versus a more composed demeanor during their private meeting.

Signalgate Incident

• Hanna Rosen (04:50): "Right. So obviously you talked about Signalgate. Can you describe the exchange?"

• Jeffrey Goldberg (04:55): Explains Trump's reference to the "Signalgate" story, highlighting Trump's focus on media attention rather than the underlying issues. “He was about how much attention you've got, the metric of success was you got more attention...”

• Notable Quote (07:07): "Bad."

Goldberg emphasizes the trivialization of serious security concerns, contrasting Trump's reaction with that of previous presidents who would have shown grave concern.

Trump’s Approach and Personality Insights

• Jeffrey Goldberg (10:09): Reflects on Trump's personality, underscoring his dual nature. “He believes that it's just a game, it's just a performance. But he's an interesting guy to talk to and listen to. And our job is to understand, to the extent that he's understandable, to understand him."

• Notable Quote (10:24): "Everything he's doing is a transaction."

Goldberg highlights Trump's transactional approach to interactions, viewing engagements through a lens of personal and political gain.

Interview with Ashley Parker and Michael Shearer (13:28 – 38:44)

Post-break, Hanna Rosen engages in a comprehensive conversation with Ashley Parker and Michael Shearer, The Atlantic's staff writers who authored the cover story "Trump Is Enjoying Himself."

Securing the Oval Office Interview

• Michael Shearer (13:41): Details the process of requesting and securing an interview with Trump, emphasizing the challenges and the unexpected direct phone call from Trump himself.

• Notable Quote (15:07): “He's very proud of the people he talks to privately. And the White House does not control this.”

The writers describe the unpredictability of dealing with Trump's communication style and the lack of control exerted by the White House over his interactions.

Trump’s Political Comeback Strategies

• Ashley Parker (16:36): Introduces the concept of the "Vampire Lesson," where Trump discusses adversaries who failed to weaken him, thereby strengthening his resolve.

• Notable Quote (16:59): “Trump has an ability to bend reality to his will. And by never ceding, never giving any quarter to make people believe and feel a version of events that does not actually comport with reality or the facts on the ground."

This segment delves into how Trump's adversities in his political downfall only fueled his determination and strategic planning for a strong comeback.

Differences Between First and Second Terms

• Michael Shearer (19:06): Contrasts Trump's current administration with his first term, noting a significant shift in preparedness and strategic execution.

• Notable Quote (21:37): “First term and the four years before he came back to office have been consumed by him playing defense... Now he goes after the law firms, says, if you're going to do pro bono work on my side, you're not going to be able to work against me.”

The writers highlight Trump's evolved approach—moving from reactive defense mechanisms to proactive and aggressive strategies aimed at reshaping governmental norms and media relations.

Trump’s Personal Enjoyment and Impact on Governance

• Ashley Parker (23:14): Emphasizes Trump's personal enjoyment in his role. “I am having a lot of fun considering what I do.”

• Notable Quote (24:00): “It's very deliberate, it's very strategic. ... Like, screw you, media. You have to choose what you wanna cover. You can't cover it all.”

This discussion underscores how Trump's enjoyment translates into a high-energy, aggressive governance style that seeks to overwhelm both media and political adversaries through relentless action and policy initiatives.

Immigration Policies and Legal Challenges

• Michael Shearer (26:28): Explores Trump's "shock and awe" strategy in implementing swift immigration policies, often outpacing legal frameworks.

• Notable Quote (28:56): “And when you point out specific legal cases, bizarre arguments, his government is making specific errors, his government has made specific harm that has happened. He immediately distanced himself from that.”

The writers discuss the tensions between Trump's executive actions on immigration and the legal system's attempts to curb or challenge these policies, highlighting potential future constitutional conflicts.

Speculations on a Third Term and Constitutional Boundaries

• Ashley Parker (34:43): Addresses Trump's ambiguous stance on a potential 2028 campaign. “He kind of goes, well, that'd be a really big shatter, wouldn't it? Maybe I just really wanna shatter.”

• Notable Quote (32:59): “And he says, very clearly, I rely on the Supreme Court. I will not defy the Supreme Court.”

This segment delves into the debates surrounding Trump's potential bid for a third term, balancing his norm-shattering tendencies with his stated reliance on constitutional institutions.

Trump's Transactional Nature and Media Strategy

• Michael Shearer (36:05): Concludes that Trump's interactions are fundamentally transactional. “Everything he engages in is a transaction.”

• Notable Quote (38:19): “He's willing to use all of those tools throughout his life... you just have to understand that about him.”

The writers synthesize their insights, portraying Trump as a multifaceted operator—adept at leveraging different personas and strategies across various platforms to maintain influence and achieve objectives.

Conclusion

The episode "Trump Is Enjoying Himself" provides an in-depth exploration of Donald Trump's intricate relationship with The Atlantic and the broader media landscape. Through candid interviews with Jeffrey Goldberg, Ashley Parker, and Michael Shearer, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of Trump's strategic maneuvers, his evolved approach to governance in his second term, and the challenges faced by journalists in navigating his unpredictable tactics. The discussions highlight the complexities of modern political discourse, the resilience of journalistic integrity, and the enduring impact of Trump's leadership style on American democracy.

Key Takeaways

• Transactional Interactions: Trump's engagements, whether with journalists or political allies, are driven by personal and political gain.

• Strategic Overwhelm: The administration employs a "shock and awe" strategy to outpace media coverage and legislative checks.

• Evolved Governance: Unlike his first term, Trump enters his second term with a clear strategy, actively reshaping governmental norms and institutional boundaries.

• Media Relations: The dynamic between Trump and the media remains contentious, with ongoing efforts to undermine journalistic independence.

• Constitutional Tensions: Potential future conflicts between executive actions and judicial oversight underscore the fragility of institutional checks and balances.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jeffrey Goldberg (04:03): "He knows how to draw attention."

• Jeffrey Goldberg (07:07): "Bad."

• Jeffrey Goldberg (10:24): "Everything he's doing is a transaction."

• Ashley Parker (16:36): “Trump has an ability to bend reality to his will..."

• Michael Shearer (21:37): “First term and the four years before he came back to office have been consumed by him playing defense...”

• Ashley Parker (23:14): “I am having a lot of fun considering what I do.”

• Michael Shearer (24:00): “It's very deliberate, it's very strategic...”

• Ashley Parker (34:43): “He kind of goes, well, that'd be a really big shatter, wouldn't it?"

• Michael Shearer (36:05): “Everything he engages in is a transaction.”

Closing Remarks

Radio Atlantic continues to provide insightful analyses and in-depth discussions on pressing political issues. For those interested in the intersection of media, politics, and culture, subscribing to The Atlantic at theatlantic.com offers access to a wealth of journalistic excellence and thought-provoking content.