Radiolab – "A Flock of Two"

Date: February 23, 2011
Hosts: Jad Abumrad & Robert Krulwich
Producer: Pat Walters

Episode Overview

This episode of Radiolab, titled "A Flock of Two," explores the extraordinary relationship between Jim Eggers, a man living with bipolar disorder and a history of violent outbursts, and his African Grey parrot, Sadie. The story delves into how Sadie, a rescue bird, becomes not only Jim's companion but also a crucial emotional support, helping him manage his temper and mood swings. The episode winds through personal trauma, animal intelligence, and the power of unexpected companionship.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jim Eggers’ Story: Background and Struggles

• Introduction to Jim ([02:36]) – Jim, living in St. Louis, is introduced as someone with a volatile temper and a long work history in the Halloween industry.
• Mental Health Challenges ([03:06]) – Jim is open about his diagnosis:

  “I have a bipolar disorder with psychotic tendencies. …I can become extremely dangerous and violent.” – Jim ([03:15])

• Trauma and Upbringing ([04:13]) – Jim recounts witnessing his brother’s drowning at age seven and being blamed by his parents:

  “They wish it was me that died instead of my brother.” – Jim ([05:00])

• Life on the Edge ([05:11]) – After being kicked out of his home as a teenager, Jim spirals, living on the streets and accumulating anger.

2. The Critical Incident

• Threat to the Archbishop ([05:30]) – Reacting to news about abuse cover-ups in the church, Jim threatens a local archbishop and is sentenced to probation. This incident marks the start of a turning point.

3. The Rescue: Enter Sadie

• Meeting Sadie ([06:42]) – Jim acquires Sadie, a neglected African Grey parrot, after years of saving up for one.

• Sadie's Condition ([07:41]):

  “She looked absolutely horrible because this kid didn't take care of her.” – Jim ([07:41])
  Sadie has been plucking her feathers due to stress.

• Bonding ([08:23]) – Despite her appearance, Jim takes Sadie home, and she quickly bonds with him.

4. The Parrot as Therapy

• Sadie Mimics Jim ([09:08]) – Sadie begins to imitate Jim, first with lighthearted phrases, then with the very words he uses to calm himself:

  “I was telling myself, calm down. You'll be okay. Everything's fine... And then she started repeating it.” – Jim ([09:49])

• Operant Conditioning ([10:12]) – Jim rewards Sadie for saying soothing phrases, reinforcing this helpful behavior.
• Becoming a Service Animal ([10:30]) – Jim gets Sadie registered as a service animal and brings her everywhere—church, buses, the gym, even casinos.

5. Sadie’s Intriguing Intuition

• A Step Beyond Mimicry ([11:14]) – Sadie begins preemptively telling Jim to calm down before he even tries to calm himself:

  “He hears, ‘Calm down, Jim.’ From Sadie.” ([11:43]) “She says it first.” – Jad ([11:50]) Jim and the hosts puzzle over how Sadie ‘knows’ when he’s upset, speculating about body language and subtle cues.

• Emotional Impact ([12:19]) –

  “It makes you stop to think... just a little innocent animal... seemed to know him in this really intimate way.” – Robert ([12:37])

6. Investigating the Phenomenon

• Seeking Third-Party Verification ([13:28])
  The producers look for other witnesses in Jim’s life—friends, bus drivers, neighbors—but find nobody who’s seen Sadie actively talk Jim down.
• Best Friend’s Perspective ([14:32])

  “She definitely has said those, but I mean, she's not going to say the same thing every time she talks to me… people aren't around me when I'm having a mood swing.” – Larry, Jim’s friend ([14:39])

7. Expert Insight: Dr. Irene Pepperberg

• Scientific Context ([15:00]) – Dr. Irene Pepperberg, world expert on African Grey parrots, hears Jim’s story. While she hasn’t seen exactly the same thing, it doesn’t surprise her:

  “Not exactly, but it doesn’t surprise me.” – Irene Pepperberg ([15:15])

• Related Anecdote ([15:23]) – Dr. Pepperberg recounts Alex the parrot spontaneously telling her to “calm down” after a stressful work meeting ([15:51]).
• How Parrots Learn ([16:05]) –

  “She may not know what each of those little phrases mean, but she knows… when she says ‘calm down,’ Jim calms down.” – Irene Pepperberg ([16:11])
  She suggests it’s a form of associative learning rooted in the bird’s need to maintain a safe and calm 'flock'—in Sadie’s case, a flock of just two: her and Jim.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jim on Trauma ([04:17])

  “I saw him bob up and down three times. And the third time, he didn’t come back up. …my parents told me they wish it was me that died instead of my brother.”

• Jim on Sadie’s Early Speech ([08:41])

  “Like, the third week I owned her… she said, ‘Hey, Jim, do you want a beer?’ …I don’t drink beer.”

• The First Time Sadie Calms Jim ([10:01])

  “Saying, calm down, you’ll be okay. Everything’s fine.” – Robert
  “Exactly.” – Jim

• Jad on Sadie’s Intuition ([11:50])

  “She says it first.”

• Robert on the Relationship ([12:37])

  “Seemed to know him in this really intimate way…”

• Larry on Proof ([17:13])

  “I don’t care if anybody believes me or not… I know what she does, and that is that.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:36] – Introduction to Jim Eggers and his life in St. Louis
• [03:15] – Jim discusses his diagnosis and violent tendencies
• [04:13] – Recounting childhood trauma and being blamed for his brother’s death
• [05:30] – Jim’s threat to Archbishop and legal trouble
• [06:42] – Jim acquires Sadie from a neglected situation
• [08:23] – Sadie bonds with Jim and starts mimicking his speech
• [09:49] – Sadie repeats calming phrases back to Jim for the first time
• [10:30] – Sadie becomes registered as a service animal; their bond deepens
• [11:43] – Sadie preemptively calms Jim during a mood swing
• [13:28] – Attempts at third-party verification of Sadie’s behavior
• [15:00] – Dr. Irene Pepperberg provides scientific context on parrot behavior
• [16:11] – Associative learning and the ‘flock of two’
• [17:13] – Jim and Larry reflect on belief and the importance of Sadie to Jim’s life

Tone & Atmosphere

This episode is intimate and empathetic, combining narrative storytelling with scientific inquiry. The tone remains gently skeptical but hopeful, emphasizing healing, companionship, and the unpredictable benefits of animal relationships—especially in the context of mental health.

Conclusion

"A Flock of Two" offers a moving portrait of how a rescued parrot helps rescue a man. Through a blend of personal stories and scientific explanation, Radiolab invites listeners to consider the remarkable ways animals can sense, respond to, and even shape our emotional lives—sometimes in ways we can’t fully explain, but deeply depend upon.