Podcast Summary: Radiolab – "Damn It, Basal Ganglia"

Date: August 9, 2011
Hosts: Jad Abumrad, Robert Krulwich
Guest: Liza Schoenfeld

Main Theme & Purpose

This episode revolves around a surprising encounter between scientific research and personal experience. The story follows Liza Schoenfeld, a research technician studying the basal ganglia in mice, who experiences a bizarre and alarming loss of control over her own muscles during a crucial graduate school interview. The episode explores how scientific knowledge can become intimately personal, highlighting the strange and sometimes poetic overlaps between research and real life.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to the Basal Ganglia

• Basal Ganglia 101:
  • Liza explains, “So ganglia, you know, collections of neurons, big collections. So the basal ganglia is a fairly large part of your brain... responsible for controlling and coordinating movement.” (01:13)
  • The hosts quiz her on what actions require the basal ganglia (moving neck, winking, making expressions).

2. Mouse Experiments: Optogenetics and Movement Control

• Mouse as Puppet:
  • Liza details her lab’s use of optogenetics to control movement in mice, describing threading a fiber into the mouse’s basal ganglia and using light to control it:
    “Literally, we just shine lasers into mouse brains... We can get him to freeze in mid stride.” (02:18-02:33)
  • Robert marvels: “So you hit the laser, and boom, the mouse stops.” (02:36)

3. Liza’s Grad School Application Process

• The High Stakes:
  • Liza lists her ambitious choices (“Go big or go home.” (03:24)) and describes initial smooth interviews at top institutions.

4. Onset of Medical Crisis: The UCSF Interview

• Unusual Symptoms Appear:
  • A severe stomach flu precedes her UCSF interview. Liza takes an anti-nausea medication and, despite lingering symptoms, pushes ahead.
• Symptoms Escalate:
  • During her interviews, she describes:
    • A strange sensation of her glasses slipping and an uncontrollable tightening of muscles in her face.
    • Her head spontaneously turning to the right during lunch:
      “I would be trying to sit here and face you, and I would just turn over here and face Robert.” (05:50)
  • The symptoms develop into involuntary neck movement, eyebrow raising, and finally a painful, twisted smile:
    “...like a charley horse in your face.” (08:14)

5. Emergency Room Realization: Science Imitates Life

• Medical Emergency:
  • She loses control of her mouth and tongue, and her throat tightens.
  • As Liza is wheeled into the ER, she reflects on the frightening irony of struggling with the same brain area—basal ganglia—she manipulates in mice.
• Diagnosis:
  • The culprit is Compazine, the anti-nausea drug, which can, in rare cases (1–2%), disrupt dopamine systems in the basal ganglia and cause “acute dystonia,” precisely the symptoms she experienced:
    “That drug had been doing to her pretty much what she’d been doing to those mice.” (10:09-10:14)

6. Full Circle: Personal Empathy with Research Subjects

• Aftermath and Reflection:
  • Liza’s ordeal is resolved with Benadryl:
    “Within 20 minutes, I was feeling a lot better.” (11:09)
  • Liza expresses newfound empathy for her research subjects:
    “Now when I go into that room with a little laser, I go in now, and I just really empathize with them.” (11:28)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Humorous Science Banter

• On Basal vs. Basil:
  • Robert: “So basil is not the thing from which pesto is made in your case?” (01:17)
  • Liza (deadpan): “No.” (01:24)

Chilling Irony

• Mouse-Scientist Role Reversal:
  • Jad: “That drug had been doing to her pretty much what she’d been doing to those mice.” (10:14)
• Empathy for Mice:
  • Liza: “I empathize with them.” (11:28)

Painful, Surreal Interview Reality

• On Trying to Appear Normal:
  • Liza: “Imagine like a charley horse in your face. Yeah.” (08:14)
  • “I look surprised at everything I’m saying, and I can’t stop it.” (07:20)

Life-and-Death Five Minutes

• ER Crisis:
  • Liza: “I remember frantically sending messages like, you gotta cut this out now. But she wasn’t in control.” (09:44-09:55)
  • Robert: “So your basal ganglia are testing the San Francisco docs, and they are failing.” (10:45)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:54–01:39 – Liza explains what the basal ganglia does
• 02:05–02:43 – Mouse puppet experiments with optogenetics
• 03:14–03:24 – Liza lists the top grad schools she’s applying to
• 04:59–07:11 – Onset and progression of bizarre, involuntary symptoms during interviews
• 09:17–09:44 – Crisis peaks, rushed to emergency room
• 10:09–10:20 – Revelation: medication triggered basal ganglia chaos
• 11:28 – Liza’s newfound empathy for her mouse subjects

Tone and Style

Warm, curious, lightly irreverent—Radiolab’s signature playful style shines through, balancing scientific explanation with personal story and a dash of irony.

For Listeners Who Missed It

This episode is a fascinating, personal look at how science and life can intertwine in the most unexpected ways—turning a researcher's expertise into an emergency, and transforming the way she sees her lab work forever.

Final Note

Liza is now a proud PhD candidate at the University of Washington, and both she and the mice are doing fine.