
It would seem that hackers today can do just about anything they want - from turning on the cellphone in your pocket to holding your life's work hostage. Cyber criminals today have more sophisticated tools, have learned to work collaboratively around the world and have found innovative ways to remain deep undercover in the internet's shadows. This episode, we shine a light into those shadows to see the world from the perspectives of both cybercrime victims and perpetrators. First we meet mother-daughter duo Alina and Inna Simone, who tell us about being held hostage by criminals who have burrowed into their lives from half a world away. Along the way we learn about the legally sticky spot that unwitting accomplices like Will Wheeler find themselves in. Then reporter and author Joseph Menn tells us about the surprisingly lucrative professional hacker structure in places throughout the former Soviet Union. Finally, the co-creator of one of the most notorious online marketplaces to ev...
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Robert Krulwich
All right.
Jad Abumrad
You're listening to Radiolab RAD from wnyc. Hey, I'm Jad Abumrad.
Robert Krulwich
I'm Robert Krulwich.
Jad Abumrad
This is Radiolab. And today.
Robert Krulwich
Well, today we're going to tell you a story which we hope does not become your future. But it raises a simple question. We all have computers. We love computers. We depend upon computers. But what if the cost of using your computer becomes more than you're willing to pay? Two stories today which suggest that we might be at the very beginning of a nightmare.
Jad Abumrad
The first comes from journalist Lena Simone and her mother, Ina.
Alina
I mean, do you want to start with my mom? Because it really happened to her. You know, she only got in touch with me, maybe on day six, talking to me. Yeah.
Jad Abumrad
Okay. So what? Yeah, day one. What was the first, first thing that.
Ina
Happened on day one? What happened? That I called Tufts University IT Services because my husband works at Tufts complaining that my computer is unbearably, unbearably slow.
Jad Abumrad
She tells it, I don't know what's going on. Every time I try and open a window. It's like, click, click.
Ina
So practically stopped working.
Jad Abumrad
What do I do?
Ina
They checked whatever said probably nothing rebooted. So did nothing, basically.
Jad Abumrad
Then she went away for the weekend.
Ina
And when I came back, I turned the computer on and like it was doing something. And I saw many, many windows covering her screen. And those windows multiplied. I cannot open any of them. And I could not figure. But it was very late at night.
Jad Abumrad
So she went to bed, got up.
Ina
The next day, called Dafts again, asking for help.
Jad Abumrad
They had no idea what was going on?
Ina
No.
Jad Abumrad
She says at this point, whatever the computer had been doing, it was done.
Ina
All windows disappeared.
Jad Abumrad
Except now, anytime she tried to click.
Ina
Any of her files, pictures, videos, I cannot open any of them.
Jad Abumrad
Instead, every time this message would pop.
Ina
Up and the message says, what happened to your files? All my files?
Daniel Plasek
All of your files have been protected with a strong encryption encrypted using CryptoWall. This means that the structure and data within your files have been irrevocably changed.
Ina
And in order to get them back.
Daniel Plasek
To unlock files, you must pay US$500. If you really value your data, then we suggest that you do not waste valuable time searching for the solutions because they do not exist.
Robert Krulwich
You're saying that somebody went into your computer and locked up all of your things?
Ina
Yeah, they gave me the exact count.
Daniel Plasek
5726 files encrypted.
Robert Krulwich
When you say they did, you have any image in your head of who?
Ina
My first thought was Russia or Ukraine, which is even better.
Jad Abumrad
Why?
Ina
Because, you know, everybody talks about excellent, fantastic education there, especially math. I'm from there. I know.
Alina
You know, she's right. They surpassed the US in educating their kids when it comes to math and science. And they've got a severe underemployment problem, especially outside of the major cities, which is where these viruses often trace down to. Not Moscow and St. Petersburg, but we're talking about, you know, backwater.
Ina
I was so positive that it comes from that part of the world that I wrote them in Russian.
Jad Abumrad
Apparently the criminal said provided her a link to a website where she could send them a message, you know, customer support.
Ina
I wrote them. I don't know how to translate it in English, more accurately. Something like, I wish you all die or draw you all die. But in Russian language, there is a word to die for humans or another word for animals.
Robert Krulwich
Use the animal one.
Ina
Yes. Not a curse, but they got the message.
Jad Abumrad
Now, Ina says she thought about just wiping the computer clean so that she wouldn't have to pay but then it occurred to her that her husband had all these files on there which he needed. You know, like business receipts that he.
Ina
Hadn'T filed yet, which he's lazy to do. So he asked me to help.
Alina
And she's right that, like, you know, she has this tax information, this reimbursement information, and ultimately, it's worth More than 500 doll.
Ina
My husband did not want to pay. I overruled him. So Ina decides to follow the instructions, basically.
Daniel Plasek
One, download and install Tor browser.
Jad Abumrad
So she goes and installs this browser called Tor, which apparently is not traceable.
Daniel Plasek
Two, run the browser and wait for initialization.
Jad Abumrad
She does that.
Daniel Plasek
Three, type in the address bar KPI7YCR7JXQ.
Jad Abumrad
Then she's directed to a site where it basically tells her, look it, if.
Ina
You don't trust us, we can decrypt one of your files for free as a sample that when you pay us, you would know that you could really get all your files back. And I was curious. I decided that I will try it.
Jad Abumrad
So she clicked the button that said yes and doodle.
Ina
I got one file back, but as soon as I did, the clock start ticking.
Jad Abumrad
Literally. She says a little clock appeared at the top of the browser.
Ina
They gave me exactly seven days, 167.
Daniel Plasek
Hours, 59 minutes, 59 seconds.
Jad Abumrad
Oh, so you decrypt the thing and then suddenly it's a countdown.
Ina
Yes. They say if you won't pay by this day, then the fine will be doubled. And if you won't in one movie, then you will lose your files forever and you will never get it back.
Jad Abumrad
Now, in the message, it had told Ina that she had to pay that $500 fine, not in dollars, but in bitcoin.
Ina
You know, this was the first time in my life ever I heard the term bitcoins. So I found this website called Coincafe where you can buy bitcoins. And to buy these bitcoins is a nightmare. It's a torture.
Jad Abumrad
What she needed to do was exchange 500 bucks for the requisite amount of bitcoins. And at the time, 500 bucks equaled 1.37 bitcoins. But before she could even make that exchange, she had to fill out all these forms, all these questions.
Ina
What happened? What is the reason to buy bitcoin? Reasons were listed. One of them was ransom. So they knew that's a category. Yes, it was the first reason to pay ransom to the criminals.
Jad Abumrad
Next, she says, after you fill out.
Ina
All the forms, you have to make a picture and send them a photograph through The Internet. Okay. I did not have a camera because.
Jad Abumrad
She says her camera happened to be in the shop.
Ina
Oh, more than that. I have to make a picture of my husband holding a driver's license, send them this picture back. So they.
Robert Krulwich
Is this the bank or the criminals?
Ina
Or this is the people who sell you bitcoins in exchange for your money? I told you that. It's a torture. It's unbelievable.
Jad Abumrad
But eventually she was able to find a neighbor, borrow the camera, take the picture she needed to take. Then she had to get the money she wanted to exchange to Coin Cafe. And it turns out the preferred way to do it, the most secure way to do it is not online, but through a money order.
Ina
This was the day right before the Thanksgiving Wednesday.
Jad Abumrad
She still had about six days before the deadline. So she thought, all right, I'll just pop down to the post office, get a money order.
Ina
But live from Boston, Lexington and the whole Massachusetts, it had a terrible, terrible snowstorm.
Jad Abumrad
For a lot of us, this could.
Dina Temple Raston
Be the biggest storm so far this winter.
Ina
Undrivable road and significant snow.
Alina
A wet snow at that point.
Ina
But I had to go to the post office.
Jad Abumrad
So she plows through the snow, almost kills herself, but gets there, gets everything together, sends it off, and she's like.
Ina
All right, so finally I send everything out. The post office assured me that they will get it on Friday, which is the first working day after the Thanksgiving. Okay? So on Friday, they did not get it. On Saturday, they did not get it on Monday in the morning, nothing was delivered. And I was desperate because my deadline was Tuesday, something like 12 o'.
Jad Abumrad
Clock.
Ina
And I start calling the post office, whatever, nobody knows anything. They said yes, two days, but there is no guarantee. Finally, 4 o' clock in the afternoon.
Jad Abumrad
On Monday, about 24 hours before the deadline, they got it.
Ina
And they sent me bitcoins in exchange because they got my money.
Jad Abumrad
But she says when she went online to check her bitcoin account, I am $13 short.
Robert Krulwich
Because of the exchange, you get only 400.
Ina
And I start calling them.
Jad Abumrad
Basically, the exchange rate had changed on her. She had bought it at 500. Now it was worth 487.
Ina
I asked them, how often do you change the exchange rate? And they said, every minute. But it's not a joke. Every minute. I said, are you crazy? I was a double victim. I was victim square or victim cube. You see what I mean? Because driving was terrible. I have to stand on my head to get a camera. And then I was struggling to send them.
Robert Krulwich
That's the problem with this Crime, like the criminals need a better way to.
Ina
Get money from the victim, but everything else is traceable.
Jad Abumrad
I'm on the edge of my seat here, so you're $13 short.
Ina
I am calling. They said there is one more way. One more way. And what is it? We have an ATM machine. You said what? Yeah, we have an ATM machine. Only one. And I said, where is it? It's in Brooklyn.
Robert Krulwich
Brooklyn, New York?
Ina
Yeah.
Robert Krulwich
Oh, no.
Jad Abumrad
200 miles away.
Robert Krulwich
Wait a second, I don't understand this. There is one ATM that is in the borough of Brooklyn where you do not live exactly.
Jad Abumrad
But luckily her daughter Alina lives in Brooklyn.
Ina
You ask me how my daughter got involved, that's how.
Jad Abumrad
So she calls Alina.
Alina
Yeah, my mom called me the night before the ransom was due. So I.
Robert Krulwich
Were you aware of any of this at that, to this point?
Alina
No, no, I remember, you know, it was at night, I had the TV on and I have a toddler, you know, always all these things going on. I was probably on my laptop too. I was doing like 12 things. And my mom called and she was like upset with a capital, um. She started ranting about criminals and ransom and I literally thought she was like talking in air quotes. I'm like, oh, yeah, I know when I go to tech serve and like, yeah, that's extortion. And my mom was like, no. Like, no, it's really a ransom. They're really criminals.
Jad Abumrad
Her mom told her google crypto wall.
Alina
And I was like, holy, this is really a thing. Plus I started Googling, as she suggested I do, and found out that police departments had paid this, that a sheriff's department in Dixon, Tennessee had just paid it to unlock like, you know, 70 plus thousand case files. And I was like, yeah.
Robert Krulwich
Oh, so these crooks go after police departments.
Alina
They've gone after governments, universities, corporations, police departments.
Robert Krulwich
And did the question ever come up in your mind, like, why my mom?
Alina
No, not at all. Cause like a million people in the US have been infected with, crippled with this very thing. Yes.
Jad Abumrad
Anyhow, next day, less than six hours left, Ina says to Alina, please go to this ATM so we can just be done with this whole thing.
Ina
You can cut it later, but I can tell you that in the morning she said, I have a date for my granddaughter date to play date. I won't be able to do it until 12 o'. Clock. And I called again, I said, are you crazy? I don't have time.
Alina
So I go out to Greenpoint, this atm and you know, I just want to add that.
Ina
But you had your play day.
Alina
Well, I canceled my.
Ina
No, you didn't. I called you. You shorten it, you make it right.
Alina
Okay, So I cut my playdate short. Sorry, Forget that crucial detail. And I go out to Greenpoint, and they have an ATM, and I'm just.
Robert Krulwich
Worried that there's gonna be 57 people all lined up at this single ATM that you're going.
Alina
There were totally not 57 people. I mean, most people do take care of this remotely. Like, there was no one at this atm. I mean, what was funny about the ATM is, like, I'm expect. Like, yeah, I've been to an atm. Like, I have a Capital One account. I know what an ATM is, you know? But this is on, like, the second floor of a workshare space in Brooklyn. It was, like, in the hallway, there was, like, a bike hanging from a wall, kind of blocking it. And there was, like, a paper sign taped to the wall that just had a printout from a computer that just said, bitcoin atm, all lowercase letters and an arrow to this phone booth. It looked very Soviet. Like, if you've seen photos of those phones with no buttons, and there's just a receiver, and it's totally scary. Like, yeah, yeah. Like, you just pick it up and, like, somebody's always on the other line or something. It was like that. It was just this box with a screen and no buttons and a camera eye.
Robert Krulwich
Oh, my God.
Alina
And what you do is you hold up your QVC code. Is that what they're called? Qvc? What are they called?
Dina Temple Raston
Qrc.
Alina
Qrc.
Jad Abumrad
The barcode thingy?
Alina
Yeah, yeah, it's like a barcode. So there's this QRC code. And my mom had emailed it to me and was like, you need to print this out. And this essentially gives you access to my account. So to top it off, you know, and so I put this QRC code up to the camera eye, and it kind of went, bloop. And then it was like, we are accessing your account. And then I got a spinny wheel.
Jad Abumrad
You got the wheel of death? Yeah. No spinny wheel. Alina starts frantically dialing her mom. The guys at Coin Cafe, I called.
Alina
You know, I left, like, three phone.
Ina
Messages, and I left five.
Alina
So finally they called me back, like, 20 minutes later, said, okay, we're sending a technician over to fix the machine, which was very cool. I didn't think that would happen. And so, you know, the technician was there, and he fixed the machine, and he helped me deposit these $25. And then we started talking and he was. He was like, yeah, you know, he knew my mom because, you know, he'd been talking to her on the phone. He's like, I feel so bad for your mom. We've been getting so many of these cases. And I'm like, why are you getting.
Jad Abumrad
A lot of these cases?
Alina
Yeah, I was like, why are you guys getting so. Why is everyone coming to you? And he's like, oh, I know why. Because in the ransom note, they give a list of preferred vendors and we are number one or two.
Jad Abumrad
What a sh. Tty introduction.
Daniel Plasek
What a bad introduction to bitcoin. Like, we're going to hold you ransom, for all your information, until you, you know, use this new currency to pay us off. I mean, that's so terrible.
Jad Abumrad
This is Mike Hoets and John Ha. They are the co owners of Coin Cafe.
Daniel Plasek
I had a few weeks back, a grandmother who was in tears. She was going to lose all of her family photos because the deadline was coming up, you know, crying on the phone to me. And it got. It felt horrible.
Jad Abumrad
Now, clearly, people who sell bitcoin just believe that there should be a digital currency that is decentralized, that doesn't rely on the banks. But unfortunately, it has become the currency of choice for ransom. And so they're in this weird position.
Daniel Plasek
So it's a tricky thing because, like, I can't sell bitcoin to someone who I know is going to do something illegal with it. Right.
Jad Abumrad
That's Will Wheeler, who runs a bitcoin exchange called Express Coin. And he says he and the other exchanges are really worried right now that if they keep helping the little guys pay the ransom in order to get their files back, they are in effect, making themselves accessories to a crime.
Daniel Plasek
I finally got a call back from FinCEN, which is the federal authority for financial crime enforcement network. They said that we could perceive paying a ransom as unlawful activity, and so they might choose to use that against the company who helps out. Right. And likely, until we get a straight answer from FinCEN, we'll take the overly cautious approach and start declining these transactions.
Robert Krulwich
Even though in your heart you want to help?
Daniel Plasek
Well, yeah. I mean, do I want to risk being indicted for helping you get your travel receipts reimbursed from your company? And I mean, to me, the answer is no.
Jad Abumrad
In any case, after Alina deposits the extra 25 bucks in her mom's bitcoin account, Ina the mom goes online.
Ina
Then I clicked and it was gone. But then about an hour later, I went to my computer and there was another message that you Are late? No, turns out that I was two and a half hours late. You have to pay $1,300 roughly. I did not have anybody to turn.
Jad Abumrad
To, so she went to that same website where you can write them a message.
Ina
I wrote them that I was late, but I mentioned the snowstorm, the Thanksgiving, which they probably were not aware of, and of course the wonderful U.S. mail service. I said that I tried and I was only two hours late. And then all of a sudden I'm getting a message you paid in full without any explanation, Nothing. You paid. That's it. And I got all my files back.
Jad Abumrad
Wow.
Robert Krulwich
Do you think that they took pity on her?
Ina
I maybe I felt that it's over finally. It's really over.
Robert Krulwich
It does make you wonder, like who these people are.
Jad Abumrad
We have a story about that up next.
Alina
Hello, this is Michelle from Kakaaka, Hawaii. Radiolab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan foundation, enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. More information about Sloan@www.sloan.org.
Ina
Mahalo.
Alina
Radiolab is supported by BILT. Nobody wants to pay rent, but if.
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You have to, BILT works to make it more worthwhile.
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Alina
By going to joinbuilt.com Radiolab that's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com Radiolab.
Jad Abumrad
Hey, I'm Jad Abumrad.
Robert Krulwich
I'm Robert Krulwich.
Jad Abumrad
This is Radiolab.
Robert Krulwich
So here's the next obvious question. Who did this to Enoch? Do we know anything about them?
Jad Abumrad
Well, we put that question to Joseph Menn, investigative reporter for Reuters. He's done a ton of work in this area and his hunch was, was that Ina's right.
Joseph Menn
We're talking people, Russian speaking folks, by and large.
Jad Abumrad
He wrote a book called Fatal System Error, which is sort of a deep dive into the Russian hacking scene. And much of it is as you'd expect, you know, young guys, early 20s, kind of grubby.
Joseph Menn
By and large, they do not live a lavish lifestyle. There are guys at the top of these criminal organizations that are very flashy. They're like sort of popular icon. Some of them. In the same way that rap stars are in the US There's a hacker magazine which, you know, has guys with their sports cars and the supermodels and whatever, you know, buying bottle service at discos at 3 in the morning.
Robert Krulwich
Those are the guys who hire the 20 year olds.
Joseph Menn
They hire the 20 year olds or their franchises.
Jad Abumrad
And he says the 20 year old grunts work at office parks.
Joseph Menn
Yeah, it's like a call center type of atmosphere.
Jad Abumrad
So is there like, you know, that's producer Kelsey Padgett, Ivan in a cubicle.
Ina
At his computer, bored.
Alina
He has a meeting later with Judy.
Jad Abumrad
In HR and he's mad about it.
Ina
Is that the kind of like environment.
Jad Abumrad
That these people are in?
Joseph Menn
For the most part, I think so, yes.
Jad Abumrad
The larger point is that it's not just like your lone wolf, pimply faced hacker anymore. Cybercrime is now super organized. It is often corporate, it is big business and the whole sort of economy seems to revolve around these secret sites where people come together to buy and sell things like that. Ransomware from our last story.
Joseph Menn
There are these underground web forums and there's a variety. Some are available you can reach on the open Internet. The more impressive ones are password protected. You know, you have to know somebody to get in the really, really fancy ones. You have to have a couple of people vouch for you.
Dina Temple Raston
You actually have to apply with your resume, your hacker's resume. Here are the things I can bring. These are the kinds of hacking explo that I've had and therefore I should be part of your exclusive club.
Jad Abumrad
That's Tina Temple Raston, NPR's cybercrime correspondent. She's been tracking the government's attempts to shut down some of these sites, which.
Dina Temple Raston
She describes as sort of a hackers black market bazaar. So let's say someone is looking for a bunch of credit card numbers that have been stolen. You can get it there.
Joseph Menn
There's one price if they're MasterCard Gold and another price for, you know, a higher level credit, whatever.
Dina Temple Raston
Let's say you wanted to know about a boss or an employee or a girlfriend.
Jad Abumrad
You can get this piece of that allows you to turn on their phone at any time.
Dina Temple Raston
You could basically eavesdrop on them because you're in their pocket. And for $300 a month you would actually get customer service and the prices.
Joseph Menn
Actually keep coming down. It's a very, very evolved, fluid marketplace. There's feedback and there's escrow.
Robert Krulwich
There are feedback forums. That thief was not really there was like didn't do the thief, the robbery, right?
Joseph Menn
Absolutely. Particularly for something you'll see it a lot for freshness of credit cards because it's easy to say, here are 10,000 credit card numbers, but if they're credit card numbers that have been out for a while and get declined, everybody, you've just wasted your money. These people are called rippers, as in they're ripping you off and they will get banned from the forum.
Jad Abumrad
Wow. So it's reputational just like everywhere else.
Joseph Menn
Yeah. And it's as good as ebay. If you feel safe doing business on ebay, there's no reason you shouldn't feel safe doing business with the criminals.
Jad Abumrad
Now, all of this, to me, frankly, felt like just sexy hacker talk until a couple of months ago, Dina started telling us about this one particular actually the biggest of these kinds of sites that's out there, it's called Dark Code.
Dina Temple Raston
Yeah. The way it has been described by law enforcement is sort of an Amazon.com for hackers.
Jad Abumrad
Actually, here's specifically how U.S. attorney David Hickson described it to her in an interview. Dark Code is the largest English speaking criminal cybercrime forum in the world.
Dina Temple Raston
I think most people know Silk Road and they know, for example, you could get a contract hit from Silk Road and drugs and guns and everything else. So would it be right for me to say that this was sort of a Silk Road road for hackers?
Robert Krulwich
Yeah, I wouldn't want to draw that direct comparison.
Jad Abumrad
I think it's probably accurate. I would say that all measure of.
Robert Krulwich
Cybercrime that you see and watch around the world was in some form or.
Jad Abumrad
Fashion connected to it. So we got really interested in this world of this site Darkcode and the people in it. And so with Dina, we started calling around, trying to find anyone that would talk. And after weeks of searching and calling and lawyering, we found a guy who agreed to go on the road.
Daniel Plasek
My name is Daniel Plasek and I am a reformed hacker.
Jad Abumrad
As far as we know, Dan has never talked about this publicly.
Dina Temple Raston
So how did you get involved with darkcode?
Daniel Plasek
Well, I was one of the people who created it a very long time ago.
Jad Abumrad
Daniel's story begins not in Russia, but in Milwaukee.
Daniel Plasek
Sure. Well, let me start with a little bit of cont.
Jad Abumrad
Small middle class suburb right outside of Milwaukee.
Robert Krulwich
Do you have brothers and sisters?
Daniel Plasek
Two younger brothers and two younger sisters. Big family.
Robert Krulwich
Did you have to share rooms with them or were you in your own little kingdom?
Daniel Plasek
I shared a room with both my brothers for a lot of years.
Jad Abumrad
In fact, that sort of plays into the story, because he says what he would do to sort of escape is go to the basement and play video games.
Daniel Plasek
So yes, the stereotypical hacker in his parents basement. I know, it's quite hilarious.
Jad Abumrad
Dan says his hacking began innocently enough when he would monkey with games like Age of Age Empires.
Daniel Plasek
I changed the graphics, change the artificial intelligence in the game, the way it plays, rework it, create new maps, that type of thing. Something I enjoyed. And slowly throughout my teenage years that developed into something more. I did not get along well with a lot of my peers in grade and middle school. So I spent a lot more time on the computer and by myself than I did socially, at least at that age.
Jad Abumrad
And he says one day he was in a chat room, an Internet chat.
Daniel Plasek
Room, it was called Game Search, talking.
Jad Abumrad
With a bunch of other people about video games.
Daniel Plasek
And at some point along the way.
Jad Abumrad
He meets this guy, you know, this.
Daniel Plasek
Particular guy was into, you know, botnets.
Robert Krulwich
Oh yes, botnets.
Daniel Plasek
We all cry.
Robert Krulwich
Yes, just remind us of what's going on there.
Daniel Plasek
Botnets are, you know, malware viruses installed on computers. And botnets are the way to centrally control a whole lot of infected computers.
Jad Abumrad
Just to put this in context for a second, because I think this is totally fascinating, Joseph Men says that this whole botnet situation, it started with spam.
Joseph Menn
One of the easiest ways to make money on the Internet back pre 2000 was spam.
Robert Krulwich
Spam, as in penis extensions, all that stuff.
Joseph Menn
What happened was that the. In the olden days, most servers, mail servers acted as open relays, meaning the.
Jad Abumrad
Mail people wouldn't really pay attention to who was sending what. So the spammers would spam with abandon.
Joseph Menn
And then spam got to be enough of a problem that the techies of.
Jad Abumrad
The world decided that's it, they started to block people. Like if they found a guy who they thought was sending too many product emails or whatever, they would block his IP address so that he couldn't send any more mail.
Joseph Menn
So what the spammers and their contractors then needed to do was to have a bunch of clean IP addresses and send spam from that.
Jad Abumrad
So what they did, which is totally genius, totally evil, is they hired a bunch of programmers to create a bunch of viruses, disseminated those viruses across the Internet. People would accidentally click or open something, get them onto their, you know, computer, and then suddenly the spammers could now remote control our computers at a distance, whatever they wanted for maybe just an hour or two a night to send out their spam, because these were clean IP addresses.
Joseph Menn
Now, of course, what happened is that once the spammers had these botnets, they started thinking, hey, I could do something else with this. And the next thing that came along was denial of service attacks. You can have all of them try to contact eBay.com at the same time and knock over ebay.
Daniel Plasek
This first gentleman that I ran into, he had a botnet of well over 1,000 computers, which at the time was amazing to me. By today's standards, a thousand for a botnet is nothing.
Jad Abumrad
Now, they can get up into the millions.
Daniel Plasek
But back then, it was quite incredible.
Jad Abumrad
To me because he says, he was in this chat room, this guy was there, and this guy would get into fights with people, and anytime he did, he'd point his 1000 computer drone army.
Daniel Plasek
At that enemy, and f you, man, I'm gonna knock your Internet offline. There's nothing you can do about it. If it was something in a game, he could knock the game server that they were playing on offline, stop their game. Things like that.
Robert Krulwich
It's like you can take away your ball back in 1935.
Daniel Plasek
Yes, that is exactly it. Taking away someone else's ball over the Internet.
Robert Krulwich
So this, for some reason, intrigued you?
Daniel Plasek
Yes, was amazing to me. I'm like, you have control of a thousand computers.
Jad Abumrad
Wow.
Daniel Plasek
You know, how did you do this? You know, at the time, I had never heard of botnets. I didn't know about any of this stuff. Like, how did you get the software to do this? How did you get it onto all these computers?
Dina Temple Raston
And he was quite happy to tell you all that.
Daniel Plasek
Oh, he certainly was.
Jad Abumrad
This.
Daniel Plasek
This particular gentleman had a very large ego.
Dina Temple Raston
And did you see him as a bad guy?
Daniel Plasek
To be honest, I think at that age, I didn't really think about it that deeply. It's the Internet. It's a lot harder to kind of quantify right and wrong there. I mean, now it's easy to look back at that and say, yeah, this is wrong. But it's not like going up to someone and punching them in the face. There's no human connection there. You don't see these people or feel these people.
Jad Abumrad
He says at the time, it was just sheer curiosity. So he says he asked this Pied Piper guy to send him some of the bot software that made the botnet go.
Daniel Plasek
And that really intrigued me. You know, digging through the source code, trying to understand, what is this thing doing? How does it work? How does it tick?
Jad Abumrad
This guy, was he a good coder?
Robert Krulwich
Like, is he good at it?
Daniel Plasek
Was he good at it? Yeah, no, no, I Would, you know, in hindsight now, you know, he's what I would classify as a script kiddie. You know, someone who.
Jad Abumrad
Script kiddie.
Robert Krulwich
I don't know what that is, but it's a whole new curse for it.
Daniel Plasek
Script kitty. So a script kiddie is someone who has just enough technical ability to kind of take some tools and software that other people have created and just use them.
Jad Abumrad
Now, to fast forward as Dan went the opposite direction of the script kiddies and got better and better and. And started making these botnets that could literally spy on people as they were using their computers.
Daniel Plasek
Interesting to see all the porn that people are watching, that type of thing.
Jad Abumrad
He says he found himself in another.
Daniel Plasek
Chat room that was called Bot Talk.
Jad Abumrad
It's the kind of place where hackers.
Daniel Plasek
Swap tips, brag like, hey, look what I did. I had to face this website. Take a look.
Jad Abumrad
And he says one day he was talking with a coder friend of his, a guy named Izardo.
Daniel Plasek
We were talking and why don't we set up a community where we can really filter who gets to join and don't let all these script kiddies and idiots in. I actually chose the name. I came up with that nice, lame name.
Dina Temple Raston
I actually think it's pretty good.
Robert Krulwich
What's the name again?
Jad Abumrad
Dark Code.
Robert Krulwich
Dark Code.
Jad Abumrad
It's like a K O, D, E, I think. Right.
Daniel Plasek
It seemed cooler with the K. Yeah. So we chose the name and started getting the site set up.
Jad Abumrad
The rules were it would be invite only.
Daniel Plasek
So you had to have an invite.
Jad Abumrad
And each new person would be required to demonstrate their skill.
Daniel Plasek
You know, here's a piece of software.
Jad Abumrad
That I created, or here's a video of my botnet in action.
Daniel Plasek
And at some point, not too long after it was created, it was decided for one reason or another that, you know, hey, we got all these programmers on here. That's great, but, you know, they also want to be able to sell some of the stuff they're making. So let's invite some people who would be willing to buy some of this stuff.
Robert Krulwich
This now begins to sound like a fair. You say, I have a burglar's tool. Do you have a door you want to burgle? And then I'll rent you my tool.
Daniel Plasek
That's a simplification. But yeah, people would post and say, I am looking to buy X. Or, here's this piece of software I created. Here's all the things it does, here's some screenshots of it in action, and here's the price. Could be a certain Type of botnet software. It could be buying a botnet itself. You know, if you don't want to build one yourself, you want to buy one that somebody else already created and has going.
Robert Krulwich
You mean I can get you onto 200,000 or 20,000 computers? Just give me a check.
Daniel Plasek
Yeah, what they called them were installs.
Jad Abumrad
Installs.
Daniel Plasek
You know, hey, guys, I've got installs, and they're $10 per 1,000, something like that.
Jad Abumrad
Now, this is something that's sort of surprising to us when it comes to botnets, that there's this whole rental market that's frighteningly affordable. Yeah, it's bargain basement. In fact, we were talking with one reporter, Kelly Jackson Higgins, who's the executive editor of darkreading.com which is a cyber security news site, and she told us, you can actually rent a botnet if you really wanted to. You could rent a botnet for one hour for about $38 a month. In some cases as low as 20. Yes, as low as $20 a month. I could rent a botnet for 20 bucks a month. You could. It's like renting space here. You want to use this to go do damage somewhere, or you want to make a statement, or you have some plan for it, or you want to send some spam. Here you go.
Daniel Plasek
You could go online right now and probably find somewhere out there on the net somebody who will sell you access to computers for cents apiece.
Jad Abumrad
And these are like people's computers, like your computer, My computer. And Dan says as dark code got bigger and bigger, he began to see more of this kind of activity on the site. Like, some guy would have a botnet of 5,000 computers. Another guy would have some software, like the ransomware software. Guy would then rent the botnet from guy one, install his ransomware, ransom these poor people, then move on.
Daniel Plasek
You know, some of the people were doing some pretty unpleasant things, Moving more into the kind of financial crimes territory, which is something that I really never had a desire to be involved in.
Jad Abumrad
And it was largely because of that, he says, that in 2009, he decided to get out. But unfortunately, the next year, I got.
Daniel Plasek
A lovely visit from the FBI. They promptly.
Jad Abumrad
Was it like kick down your door type situation? They knocked.
Daniel Plasek
They knocked.
Jad Abumrad
So it was okay. What was that like?
Daniel Plasek
Pretty terrifying, you know, what's gonna happen to me? What's gonna happen next?
Jad Abumrad
What did happen next?
Daniel Plasek
I don't know how much of that I can talk about, But I did cooperate with the government, and I have cooperated with them for the last five plus Years now. It was a kick in the butts. You know, my parents kind of kicked me out, that kicked me out, but assisted me with a rapid move out. And I've been living on my own since then and became gainfully employed, had a few jobs, became a little bit more serious with my then girlfriend, who is now my wife. So, you know, it's given me an opportunity over the last five years to really make some serious changes to my life.
Jad Abumrad
Meanwhile, over the same five years, Dark Code grew into this massive cyber criminal swap meet where tens of thousands of stolen Social Security numbers were bought and sold. Huge databases of personal information and emails were bought and sold. Malware and software of various kinds were bought and sold. And this continued, according to Dina Temple Rastan, right up until July 15th of this year. July 15th, 2015.
Daniel Plasek
Today marks a milestone in our efforts to bring to justice some of the most significant cyber criminals in the world.
Dina Temple Raston
What ended up happening on July 15 is that the FBI had actually gotten into Darkco with a number of intelligence services from around the world and they had an 18 month investigation in which they took down, in the end, 28 people.
Jad Abumrad
The FBI has effectively smashed the hornet's nest and we are in the process of rounding up and charging the hornets.
Dina Temple Raston
But here's what's amazing, right? So they take down more than two dozen people. Two weeks later, Dark Code is up again.
Jad Abumrad
It just popped back up.
Dina Temple Raston
Just popped back up.
Robert Krulwich
Our deep gratitude to NPR's Dina Tempo Rastin, whose reporting really got us going on this whole project.
Jad Abumrad
Yeah, Props to Kelsey Padgett who produced.
Robert Krulwich
Our first segment, Andy Mills, who produced.
Jad Abumrad
Our second segment, and who can from memory give you the extended family tree of Darkcode. Just right out of his head. Right out of his head.
Robert Krulwich
We got original music this hour from Dub, Mood and Miyachelweh.
Jad Abumrad
Yeah, wow. Thanks also to Andrew Zolli, Michael Shamos.
Robert Krulwich
Gunther Ullman, Lynn Levy, Kathy Roeder, also Kathy2, and don't forget attorney David Vaccaro.
Jad Abumrad
And the whole crew at the Microsoft Cyber Crimes Unit. And to you, Robert. Thank you. To you.
Robert Krulwich
Why? Why me?
Jad Abumrad
Because you're part of my botnet.
Daniel Plasek
Because I'm Jad Abumrod.
Jad Abumrad
I'm Robert Kulwich. Thanks for listening.
Ina
Message 21 new.
Dina Temple Raston
Hey, this is Dina Tumple Ralston and I'm reading the credits.
Ina
Radiolab is produced by Jad Adamrod. Our staff includes Brenna Farrell, D, David Gave, Dylan Keefe, Matt Kilty, Andy Mills, Platif Nasser, Kelsey Paget, Arianne Wack, Molly Webster, Soren Wheeler, and Jamie York, with help from Simon Adler, Alexandra DeYoung, Abigail Thiel and Alexandra Brown. Our thought hackers are Eva Descher and Michelle Harris. End of message.
Jad Abumrad
Radiolab is supported by the National Forest.
Joseph Menn
Foundation, a nonprofit transforming America's love of.
Jad Abumrad
Nature into action for our forests. Did you know that national forests provide clean drinking water to 1 in 3Americans? And when forests struggle, so do we. The National Forest foundation creates lasting impact.
Joseph Menn
By restoring forests and watersheds, strengthening wildfire.
Jad Abumrad
Resilience and expanding recreation access for all. Last year, they planted 5.3 million trees and led over 300 projects to protect nature and communities nationwide. Learn more at nationalforests.org Radiolab I'm Ira.
Daniel Plasek
Flaydo, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, Climate change. Genetic engineering, Childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.
Host(s): Jad Abumrad, Robert Krulwich
Featured Contributors: Alina Simone, Ina, Joseph Menn, Dina Temple-Raston, Daniel Plasek
In "Darkode," Radiolab delves into the world of ransomware and underground hacker markets, exploring both the personal impact of cybercrime and the broader evolution of online criminal ecosystems. The episode is structured in two acts: the first tells the harrowing tale of a ransomware attack on a family, and the second peels back the curtain on Darkode, an infamous hacker forum. Through first-person accounts, expert interviews, and investigative reporting, Radiolab examines how cybercrime has become big business—and what that means for everyday computer users.
Storytellers:
Key Points:
Notable Moments:
Commentary from Experts:
Featured Voices:
Key Points:
Radiolab maintains a conversational and at times wry tone, using story-driven reporting and character sketches to illuminate complex cyber threats. The episode blends suspense, humor, and empathy—as seen in the banter between Ina and Alina or the deadpan acceptance from the hackers' side.
Main Takeaway:
The threats posed by organized cybercrime are both personal and systemic, affecting ordinary families and institutions alike. Attempts to eliminate these threats often feel Sisyphean; with each botnet taken down, new ones arise. The human element—victims, hackers, and the gray area Bitcoin middlemen—makes the world of digital crime especially complicated and challenging to police.