Radiolab – "Famous Tumors" (May 17, 2010)
Hosts: Jad Abumrad & Robert Krulwich
Podcast: Radiolab (WNYC Studios)

Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging episode, Jad and Robert dive into the surprising world of "famous tumors"—tumors that have changed history, science, or culture. Using their signature storytelling style, the hosts examine stories full of curiosity, awe, and shades of ethical complexity: President Ulysses S. Grant’s fatal tumor, the epidemic that nearly wiped out Tasmanian devils, brain tumors that spark religious experiences, and the immortal cells of Henrietta Lacks. The episode marries science, history, and personal narrative to challenge assumptions and highlight the odd, sometimes profound, roles tumors have played in human and animal life.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Grant’s Tumor – Presidential Pathology (00:49–04:15)

• Setting the Scene: Robert and Jad visit the National Museum of Health and Medicine, guided by Dr. Adrienne Noe, to view the preserved tumor of President Ulysses S. Grant.
  • The tumor, removed in 1885, is kept in a cigar box—a bitter irony for a man who was known for smoking 12 cigars a day. [“He never stopped having cigars. He smoked as many as 12 cigars a day.” — Dr. Adrienne Noe, 02:39]
• Cause of Death: Grant died from squamous cell carcinoma, likely caused by his cigar habit.
• Reflection: The hosts marvel at how a small group of wayward cells can do what wars could not: end the life of a great general and president.

2. Leaping Tumors: The Plague of Tasmanian Devils (04:38–20:09)

• Photographer’s Discovery: Dutch plumber and wildlife photographer Christo Barsch recounts his many trips to Tasmania, eventually noticing a sudden decline in Tasmanian devil populations and the presence of grotesque facial tumors. (08:40–09:19)
• Transmissible Cancer: Science journalist David Quammen explains how researchers discovered that these cancers are not just tumors but are in fact infectious—devils catch them by biting one another. (10:05–11:25)
  • “These tumors were all genetically identical... They were all the same tumor.” — David Quammen, 11:20
• Why Can This Happen? Due to extreme inbreeding, the devils’ immune systems can’t tell the difference between their own cells and foreign tumor cells.
• Evolution in Action: Cancer biologist Carlo Maley reframes cancer as a process of evolution—a Darwinian struggle at the cellular level, with “copying errors” leading to ever more aggressive, adaptive mutants. (12:01–14:37)
• Rare Transmission: Maley emphasizes how rare this “leaping tumor” phenomenon is, requiring freakish bad luck—a tumor that’s external and animals that bite one another’s faces during mating or eating. (16:13–18:23)
• Not Unique: Reference is made to an even older transmissible tumor in dogs, which has been spreading for over 2,000 years. (18:48–19:26)
  • “This tumor is essentially an animal, a parasite. Not a species of parasite, but one individual parasite that may never die.” — David Quammen, 19:42

3. Tumors and the Mind: Can a Tumor Give You God? (21:07–31:15)

• "Tumor as Gift" Trope: The idea, as in the John Travolta film “Phenomenon,” that tumors can sometimes confer “gifts”—hyperintelligence or insight.
• Case Study—Pleasure from Safety Pins: Neurologist Dr. Orrin Devinsky recounts the bizarre case of a man who experienced orgasmic pleasure from viewing safety pins, due to a benign tumor in his temporal lobe. Once the tumor was removed, so was his heightened pleasure response. (21:45–23:33)
  • “He could look at safety pins all day long, but he would never again enjoy them the way he had for his whole life.” — Dr. Devinsky, 23:33
• Novelistic Take—Lying Awake: Mark Salzman shares from his novel about a nun who has spiritual visions due to a brain tumor, weighing whether eliminating the tumor (and her transcendent experiences) is the right choice. (24:10–28:04)
• Philosophical Dilemma: The hosts ponder whether experiences born of abnormal brain states (tumor or epilepsy) are any less “real” or meaningful. Quoted is Dostoevsky, whose own epilepsy produced moments of transcendent bliss:
  • “For several moments… I would feel the most complete harmony in myself and in the whole world. This feeling was so strong and sweet… I would give 10 or more years of my life.” — Dostoevsky (as relayed by Robert), 30:39

4. The Immortal Cells of Henrietta Lacks ("HeLa cells") (32:01–55:42)

• Discovery: The story pivots to medical researcher George Gey, who in 1951 cultured tumor cells from Henrietta Lacks, a Black woman suffering from a unique, aggressive cervical cancer. [“Never saw anything like it before or after.” — Dr. Howard Jones, 33:28]
• HeLa’s Biological Impact: Unlike all previous human cell lines, HeLa cells not only survived but doubled every 24 hours—and were distributed freely to labs around the world. (36:17–40:01)
• Scientific Revolution: HeLa enabled countless breakthroughs, including the mass production of the polio vaccine, chemotherapy drug testing, and even the first human cells in space. (41:02–42:52)
• Unintended Consequence: HeLa was so robust that it contaminated other cell cultures, forcing scientists to finally investigate the woman behind the cells. Thus began the quest to understand Henrietta’s life, culminating in Rebecca Skloot’s book “The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks.”
• Family’s Perspective: Henrietta’s children, particularly her daughter Deborah, struggled to grasp the science, at times fearing that their mother had been cloned or that part of her spirit was being tormented in labs worldwide. (46:22–47:35)
  • “[Deborah] worried that it hurt her mother. When you infect the cells with Ebola, does somehow her mother feel the pain?” — Rebecca Skloot, 51:18
• Profound Encounter: In a powerful scene, Deborah meets her mother’s glowing HeLa cells, holds a vial, and whispers: “You’re famous. But nobody knows.” (54:48–55:42)
• Coda: Deborah Lacks died shortly after this emotional reconciliation.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tumor Transmission:
  “You can’t catch cancer.” — Jad Abumrad (11:37)

• On Evolution and Cancer:
  “Cancer is not just a cell going haywire. It’s actually many cells competing, competing for space, competing for resources, and in the process, driving each other haywire.” — Carlo Maley (12:43–12:54)

• On Emotional Weight of Science and Identity:
  “[Deborah] had her cells on the back of a donkey going to Turkey, you know, in the airplanes, just going all over the world... when you infect the cells with Ebola, does somehow her mother feel the pain that comes with Ebola?” — Rebecca Skloot (51:18)

• On the Intersection of Faith and Brain Chemistry:
  “Could it truly be that this is God’s avenue to speak to us?... Some states of neurologic dysfunction allow you to harmonize or tune in or receive those messages, so to speak.” — Dr. Orrin Devinsky (29:03–29:44)

• On Loss and Mystery:
  “She just raised them up to her lips and she said, you’re famous. But nobody knows.” — Rebecca Skloot, describing Deborah’s encounter with HeLa cells (55:36)

Segment Timestamps

• 00:49–04:15: Grant’s Tumor at the National Museum of Health and Medicine
• 05:01–20:09: Tasmanian devils and the leaping tumor epidemic, David Quammen, Christo Barsch, Carlo Maley
• 21:07–31:15: Tumors as sources of consciousness and bliss; safety pin case; "Lying Awake" by Mark Salzman; Dostoevsky
• 32:01–55:42: The story of Henrietta Lacks, HeLa cells, family legacy, public and scientific consequences

Tone and Style

The episode is a classic Radiolab blend of wonder, empathy, and intellectual curiosity, with moments of humor, awe, and deep questioning. Jad and Robert oscillate between asking naïve questions, challenging scientific dogma, and inviting guests to bring expertise and lived experience. The sound design underscores emotions—from the eeriness of preserved tissue to the joy and anguish surrounding immortalized cells.

Final Thoughts

“Famous Tumors” is less about disease than about the strange, poignant, and far-reaching ways tumors intersect human and animal stories: as agents of death, windows onto the mind, and catalysts for scientific progress. The episode leaves listeners with as many questions as answers—about the limits of science, the nature of consciousness, and the ethics of immortality.

For further exploration:

• "The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks" by Rebecca Skloot
• Radiolab.org for extended content and episodes