Fela Kuti: Enter the Shrine

Summary

Radiolab – “Fela Kuti: Enter the Shrine”
Episode Date: November 28, 2025
Hosts: Lulu Miller, Latif Nasser, featuring Jad Abumrad
Guest Contributors: Michael Veal, Lisa Lindsay, Moses Uchunu, Nina Darton, and others

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Overview

This Radiolab episode spotlights legendary Nigerian musician and activist Fela Kuti, focusing on “the Shrine”—his iconic Lagos nightclub—and unraveling the unique alchemy of music, politics, and place that defined Afrobeat as a transformative force. Drawing from their new 12-part series “Fela Kuti: Fear No Man,” Jad Abumrad, Lulu Miller, and Latif Nasser, alongside a roster of scholars, musicians, and first-hand witnesses, transport listeners into the pulsing heart of 1970s Lagos and the revolutionary experience of entering Fela’s “Shrine.”

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Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. The Origin of the Series & Jad’s Fascination with Fela

• Jad’s personal journey: Jad reveals he initially knew Fela as just “the record that Came on at a party… the party got started” (02:46), but discovered a deeper legacy when approached to help create the podcast (04:49).
• Why Fela now? Jad frames Fela as an answer to the “what’s the point?” of making music/art in a distressed society. Fela’s music became a catalyst for social change, embodying the idea that “the point of making art is to try and make a new world…change the world in some way” (05:07).
• Notable Quote:

  “With the music, he almost toppled a dictatorship. This is the point of making music, this is the point of making art, is to try and make a new world, try and change the world in some way.” – Jad Abumrad (05:07)

2. The Power and Mechanics of Fela’s Music

• Music as more than words:
  Fela's music's political power wasn’t just in lyrics—it was “baked into the very grammar of the music itself… in the structure… the sequence of impacts” (06:28).
• Immersive experience:
  Multiple guests recount how the Shrine “was like being hypnotized… the music was inside of me, was all around” (08:07; 23:05).
• Quote:

  “This is a place, this isn’t a song.” – Fela Kuti (archival audio) (25:53)

3. The Shrine: Epicenter of the Movement

• Historical context:
  In 1970, Fela returns radicalized and establishes both the Shrine nightclub and the Calcutta Republic (his self-declared independent commune) as “sovereign” from Nigeria (17:33), an act of bold defiance under military dictatorship.
• Atmosphere and ritual:
  Scholars and journalists recall packed streets, music in blackout darkness, people dancing/smoking openly in defiance of harsh laws, and Fela’s theatrical nightly arrival (09:00; 18:41; 19:53; 21:21).
• Memorable moment:

  “He slowly slips into skin tight sequined pants and a white shirt open to the waist, arranging his strings of beads as if he were smoothing a necktie… A chant. Fela. Fela rumbles out of the dark.” – Nina Darton, recounting a New York Times description (19:53)

4. The Music as Transformation/Trance

• Structure and trance:
  The music’s long, looping, relentless grooves (ostinatos) gradually draw audiences into a trance-like state where they become receptive to Fela’s radical message (24:13; 29:31; 32:31).
• The power of repetition:

  “Ostinato in Italian… means basically stubborn. The loops stubbornly repeat… At some point, a few minutes in, you arrive at this mysterious moment where you stop wanting it to change… My God, this groove is a whole world. This is the trance state.” – Jad Abumrad (32:34)

• From trance to awakening:
  Fela’s lyrics, often introduced after 30+ minutes, come as a jolt—abruptly addressing political oppression, global affairs, and cultural identity. Listeners feel “where has my mind been all my life?” (29:06).
• Quote:

  “I saw the light, that you can now dance to.” – Jad Abumrad (34:38)

5. Music as Weapon and Information

• Fela’s intention:
  Archival interviews feature Fela describing his music as “a weapon to say, so I can talk when I have the chance to. I consider music to be effective, like a weapon to inform people.” (35:39)
• Cycle and time:
  Fela and guests discuss how both the music and African experience are cyclical—echoing across generations (36:10).
• Quote:

  “If anybody tells me 20 years is a long time, I would tell him, no. Time is meaningless unless you want to understand what time is about. There is time for everything.” – Fela Kuti (36:10)

6. The Shrine’s Lasting Impact

• Even decades after Fela’s death, the Shrine (though closed and relocated over the years) remains a symbol of resistance and sanctuary, where Fela’s “protection” is still felt, and defiant freedom is possible (16:53).

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Timestamps for Noteworthy Segments

• [02:04] Jad Abumrad discusses hearing about the idea for a Fela Kuti podcast.
• [05:07] Jad shares why Fela’s life resonates as “the point” of making music.
• [07:18] Lulu Miller explains the progression of the multi-part series and intros this episode, focused on the Shrine.
• [09:00] Michael Veal gives a vivid account of arriving at the Shrine in Lagos.
• [18:41] Nina Darton reads her NYT description of Fela’s pre-show ritual.
• [21:21] Nina and Jad recall Fela’s dramatic donkey-riding entrance.
• [23:05] Guests and archival sound convey the physical, hypnotic qualities of the Shrine’s music.
• [25:53] “This is a place, this isn’t a song”: Fela audio and analysis.
• [29:06] Epiphanies and awakenings provoked by Fela’s lyrics.
• [32:31] Jad unpacks the “trance state” of Fela’s grooves.
• [35:39] Fela calls his music “a weapon.”
• [36:10] Fela on cycles, time, and legacy.

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Notable Quotes

• "This is the point of making art, is to try and make a new world..."
  — Jad Abumrad (05:07)

• "This is a place, this isn’t a song."
  — Fela Kuti (archival audio) (25:53)

• "I saw the light, that you can now dance to."
  — Jad Abumrad (34:38)

• "It is the information side of the music that is important."
  — Fela Kuti (archival audio) (35:39)

• "Time is meaningless unless you want to understand what time is about."
  — Fela Kuti (archival audio) (36:10)

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Episode Flow & Tone

• Curious, reverent, immersive: The hosts and guests are in awe of Fela's artistry and impact, combining narrative history, personal testimony, and immersive sound to place listeners inside the experience of entering the Shrine.
• Mix of wonder, analysis, and personal reflection: Listeners are guided from broad questions about music and change, through vivid sensory depiction, to nuanced discussion of Afrobeat’s structure, meaning, and ongoing relevance.
• Celebratory and probing: The episode celebrates Fela’s legacy, even as it questions the mechanics of transformative music—asking not just “what happened?” but “how did it work?”

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Looking Forward

• The next episode of the series will spotlight Fela’s equally extraordinary mother and the movement she led:

  “You could flip it. You could do the 12 episode series about her and then one episode about him in the middle of it.” – Jad Abumrad (37:48)

• Teased episode title: Vengeance of the Vagina Head – referring to the name given by newspapers to a revolt led by Fela’s mother (38:06).

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This episode stands out as both primer and immersion: exploring the storied nexus of music, ritual, community, and revolution inside Lagos’ legendary nightclub, and providing both context for Fela Kuti’s meteoric influence and a meditation on why profound art still matters.

Transcript

[Narrator]

Radiolab is supported by Apple TV. It's 1972. A young British family is attempting to sail around the world when disaster strikes. Their boat is hit by killer whales and it sinks in seconds. All they have left is a life raft and each other. How will they survive? The true story of a family's fight for survival, hosted by Becky Milligan. This is Adrift, an Apple original podcast produced by Blanchard House. Apple TV subscribers get special early access to the entire season. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts. Oh, wait, you're listening.

[Lisa Lindsay]

Okay.

[Nina Darton]

All right.

[Narrator]

Okay.

[Nina Darton]

All right.

[Jad Abumrad]

You're listening to Radiolab Radio from WNYC.

[Lulu Miller]

Is Radiolab.

[Jad Abumrad]

I'm Latif Nasser.

[Lulu Miller]

And I'm Lulu Miller.

[Jad Abumrad]

And I am Jad Abumrad, here to hang out with Lulu and Latif.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

Woo hoo.

[Lulu Miller]

Welcome back, old man.

[Jad Abumrad]

Thanks, youngster. Happy to be here.

[Nina Darton]

Yeah.

[Narrator]

Where have you been this whole time?

[Jad Abumrad]

I've just been here in Brooklyn, just, you know, being a dad, making stuff. So pretty much the first thing that happened when I handed you guys the show proudly is I became a professor, kind of a fake professor at Vanderbilt. Been teaching all kinds of things relating to storytelling and interviewing Dr. Abumrad. Well, you know, none of the other faculty are fooled, but also alongside that, I've been making all kinds of weird music and theater things. We just had a big thing in Brooklyn that launched in May. It's about the Brooklyn Navy Yard, America's war making engine, in a way. And I don't know, it felt like, what if journalism were sung by 60 women?

[Lulu Miller]

Bones.

[Latif Nasser]

Bones.

[Jad Abumrad]

And then somewhere along the way, early, I got into a conversation with Ben Adair, old friend who has been making audio stories as long as I have. He approached me and he was like, hey, do you want to do a podcast about Felakuti? Felakuti, the Nigerian musician who invented a whole new genre of music and started a political movement and toppled a government just with music. I was like, cool, that sounds interesting. And I said yes to it in the way that you say yes to things that you know are never gonna happen. Do you know? Cause I was like, this'll be really fun.

[Narrator]

Sure, I'd love to have dinner at your house. That sounds great.

[Jad Abumrad]

Well, I wasn't saying yes to in a note like, I don't really want to do it. I was just like, I don't know if I'm doing another podcast, but let me just, you know, let's just explore it. Because I knew a bit about Fela. I mean, he was sort of the record that Came on at a party and everyone was like, oh. And it was like the party got started. So I knew him from that, that angle, but I didn't know his backstory at all. So I started making some phone calls and I don't know, I just didn't stop. In this series, we're going to look at the life and the music of Fela Kuti. Aniculapo Kuti.

[Lulu Miller]

Anika always get that.

[Jad Abumrad]

My tongue always trips over that. Aniculapo Kuti, the father of Afrobeat, the black president, the chief priest.

[Narrator]

I had never heard of Fela until you got obsessed with him. And I was like, who is this guy? Like, and why is Jad spending like three years, like obsessed with this guy?

[Jad Abumrad]

I mean, yeah. One of the first things that you discover when you're trying to unravel who this man was is that all of these people that you love, love him. Ayo Adebiri, actor, writer, someone I really respect. She's in the bear. Great show. On some red carpet somewhere, she was asked, oh, did you this question a musician?

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

I have a cult like fascination with her.

[Jad Abumrad]

Answer.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

Fela Kuti, who is a Nigerian legend.

[Jad Abumrad]

Is a very complicated man. Fela has to be the epicenter and questlove one of the great musical minds of our time. I mean, Fela is the one figure whose story resonates with modern American hip hop culture. The passion, the pain, Jay Z, the.

[Narrator]

Strength, the need to get the message out there.

[Jad Abumrad]

Beyonce, I don't know, it just presents a question. You're like, okay, what are they hearing? You know, and can I hear it? Can I make other people hear it?

[Lulu Miller]

You know, okay, so you dive in, you end up churning out this 12 part series called Fela Kuti Fear no Man, which people can go listen to right now, anywhere, everywhere. And you know, okay, people clearly love his music. But what drove you to make the series?

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah, he is the answer to a really important question for me personally, which is like, right now you're looking out in the world. None of it makes sense. It's all insanity. And if you love music as I do and you kind of look around, you're like, what is the point? What's the point? What's the point of making music? What's it gonna do to make our world better? And then you look at the streaming hellscape that we all live in, and artists are now content creators and they just sell content to Spotify for precisely 0.01 cents and you're like, what's the point? What's the point why? And he answers the question for me that the music itself wasn't just music. It became the catalyst for, like, a political movement that had, you know, many, many tens of thousands of young people ready to march into the streets. And just with the music, he almost toppled a dictatorship. He's like, this is the point of making music, this is the point of making art, is to try and make a new world, try and change the world in some way.

[Lulu Miller]

And the music itself, though, like, how it functions, how is that changing the world? Just. What's the almost mechanism?

[Latif Nasser]

Sure.

[Jad Abumrad]

Okay, so here's so Lulu. I love that question. Because the political aspects of his music weren't just lyrical, although they were. It was baked into the very grammar of the music itself. It's like, in the notes. It's below the notes. It's in the structure of the music. It's in the impact and the sequence of impacts that the music creates.

[Lulu Miller]

Which sounds so pretty, but, like, what the F does that mean?

[Jad Abumrad]

How this is. This is this episode that I think you're gonna play.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah. And okay, just for context, the first, we met a bandmate of Feyla's. We got the story through his eyes. Then in the second episode, you traced his evolution into a revolutionary. And then in the third one, the one we're gonna play, this is the one where we really get into the music itself.

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah. It really tries to first give you the experience and then explain what the experience is.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah. So it's called the Shrine. Anything else before we walk in?

[Jad Abumrad]

I should explain. The Shrine is. It's his club in Lagos, and it really was sort of the epicenter of his movement. And we interviewed God, so many people who described what it was like to be there. People who were once asleep and are now awake. My experience in being in the Shrine.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

Was like, the music was like, inside.

[Jad Abumrad]

Of me was all around and just.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

Like, you know, being hypnotized.

[Jad Abumrad]

Like, you're all inside the music.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

Brothers and sisters, the secret of life is to have no fear. We all have to understand that.

[Jad Abumrad]

This is Fela Kuti. Fear no Man. Chapter three Enter the Shrine. One of the ingredients of a movement, necessary ingredients, is to have a place where you can experience the promise of that movement right here, right now in the present. Can you tell us about your first visit to the Shrine?

[Michael Veal]

Yes, of course.

[Jad Abumrad]

What do you remember about them?

[Michael Veal]

It was very, very funky.

[Jad Abumrad]

This is Michael Veal, musician, professor of music at Yale. He's also one of our advisors on the project.

[Michael Veal]

To hear that music in New York is one thing, you know, you listen to that music in New York, you're like, oh yeah, whatever. Look, the first night I was in Lagos, you know, as you're walking up the shrine, you hear that, then you get closer, you start hearing. So you start hearing. I remember that very clearly. But it was at night and there was no power. Every blackout, it's like going to Times Square. But there are people all in the street, like thousands and thousands of people. Jam packed mob of people. It's total darkness. But thousands of these little sterno lamps illuminating the place because the power went out all the time in Lagos. But there are thousands of these sternos. So you imagine the scene, it's like almost like Woodstock of a kind of thing. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Jad Abumrad]

Yeah.

[Michael Veal]

To hear that music in New York is one thing, you're like, oh yeah, whatever. But then if you ever get in a plane and go to Lagos, ladies.

[Jad Abumrad]

And gentlemen.

[Michael Veal]

They open a hatch and it goes with the humidity and the heat, you know, the minute they open the hatch it's like blam. And then you walk out of the plane and you gotta go down the steps and you're like, oh, now I get it.

[Jad Abumrad]

Welcome to Nigeria.

[Michael Veal]

That's the way reality feels in this setting. You know what I'm saying?

[Jad Abumrad]

That interview with Michael Veal was one of the many reasons why when we finally got to lagos after a 13 hour flight. I'm good, taking it all in. The top item on our agenda was to go to the shrine.

[Lulu Miller]

Radiolab is supported by bilt. Nobody wants to pay rent, but if you have to, BILT works to make it more worthwhile. By paying rent through Bilt, you can earn flexible points that can be redeemed toward hundreds of hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and more. But it doesn't stop there. You can dine out at your favorite local restaurants and earn additional points, get VIP treatment at certain fitness studios and enjoy exclusive experiences just for built members. Every month, earn points on rent and around your neighborhood, wherever you call home, by going to joinbuilt.com Radiolab that's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com Radiolab.

[Latif Nasser]

Hey, I'm Molly Webster and this is an ad by BetterHelp. So it happens every year. The seasons are changing, the days are getting shorter, and basically once it becomes dark outside of my window, I feel like the rest of the world disappears and I'm just alone and there's nothing left to do but watch television this November. Better Help is asking everyone to reach out to our people. That could be your family, your friends, your neighbors, and to resist this call of the cocoon. And yeah, reaching out can take some courage. I've got text messages from January I haven't responded to. And you know what? I'm gonna write them back right now. Hi, sorry I've been missing. How are you? Why don't we all do this sooner is the same way. BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. You just fill out a short questionnaire and they find a licensed therapist who they think you'll like. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com Radiolab that's betterhelp.com Radiolab.

[Narrator]

Radiolab is supported by Capital One. Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that Radiolab is his favorite podcast too. Oh, really? Thanks, Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com Bank Capital One NA member FDIC Radiolab is supported by AT&T. AT&T believes hearing a voice can change everything. And if you love podcasts, you get it. The power of hearing someone speak is unmatched. It's why we save those voicemails from our loved ones. They mean something. AT&T knows the holidays are the perfect time to do just that. Share your voice. If it's been a while since you called someone who matters, now's the time. Because it's more than just a conversation. It's a chance to say something they'll hear forever. So spread a little love with a call this season and happy holidays from AT&T. Connecting changes everything.

[Jad Abumrad]

Let me fill in a few gaps. 1969, after the whole Sandra Isadore experience in La Fela comes back to Nigeria, radicalized, steps off the plane and takes the country by storm. He becomes the massive star that we know him to be. And then between 1973 and 1979, he releases this fire hose. Of music. Something like, by my count, 27 records in 6 years. Ish. One hit after another after another. Now the Shrine. During that time, early on, he sets up a club that he calls the Shrine. And it's important to understand where. Lagos. Lagos City. The most populous city in Africa. Lagos is on the coast the Atlantic Ocean. And it consists of a Giant landmass and mainland that curves around this bay. And in the bay are two major islands that connect back to the mainland with bridges on the islands. This is the sound you hear. Peacocks, golf. It's very lush, very beautiful on the mainland. Very different sound. You will find places on the mainland where the sheer density of people is just breathtaking. For example, this audio that you're hearing is from a market that we visited in a neighborhood called Mushin, a poor working class neighborhood where a million people are packed into seven square miles. In this neighborhood, not the island. This spot is where he decided to put the shrine. To say, basically, I am the voice of the people, the sufferheads, as he called them. When we visited the shrine at night, it was more or less as Michael Veale described it, people all in the.

[Michael Veal]

Street, like jam packed mob with people.

[Jad Abumrad]

He was there in 92. We were there 2024. And the shrine has closed a few times and reopened and moved around a bit. But it was kind of the same. It was dark. You had about 50 food sellers lining the block. This very long block in front of the shrine. People smoked weed openly, which in Nigeria can carry a heavy prison sentence. Our fixer in Lagos told us that even now, 28 years after Fellah died, this is the one place where that can happen. One of the sellers that was there explained it this way.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

Is like life after death. Evergreen.

[Narrator]

Yes.

[Jad Abumrad]

Would you feel like Fela still protects this street, this place?

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

Yes, exactly.

[Jad Abumrad]

His sense was the ghost of Fela is still there protecting this one block. And as he said that, he nodded towards the end of the block where there were policemen waiting, standing almost like on the other side of an invisible line.

[Lisa Lindsay]

You've done your research. You know that the. The shrine and also Fela's compound, the calicut of a republic he had kind of declared independent of Nigeria.

[Jad Abumrad]

That's Lisa Lindsay, a professor at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. She specializes in the history of West Africa. And she brings up an important point. Is it in 1970, when Fellah got back to Nigeria, he declared his club the Shrine and also his house nearby, which he called the Calcutta Republic. He declared them a sovereign nation within Nigeria, sort of like the Vatican is to Italy, that he was a country unto himself. Lisa Lindsay visited the shrine in the early 90s.

[Lisa Lindsay]

It was just all this craziness that we saw. Well, okay, so outside there's a dictatorship that was shooting people.

[Jad Abumrad]

At that time. And there are videos of this on YouTube. The government would hold public executions of criminals and dissidents on the beach.

[Lisa Lindsay]

There were soldiers in the streets. It wasn't safe to be out at night. You go in. And it's just this alternate universe.

[Jad Abumrad]

Describe what it looks like.

[Lisa Lindsay]

It was like a warehouse, sort of everybody smoking, like a lot of weed smoking. Giant, giant joints. Joints the size of police megaphones.

[Michael Veal]

Keep in mind at that time people were getting thrown in jail for 10 years for a half smoke joint.

[Lisa Lindsay]

It's just this massive cloud up at the top of the thing.

[Michael Veal]

It's hot, it's humid. There are a lot of people in.

[Lisa Lindsay]

There, people dancing and people stoned out of their minds. And it was such a contrast to how scared people were outside of the shrine.

[Nina Darton]

The shrine was not far from his house, a couple of blocks.

[Jad Abumrad]

That's John Darton, Pulitzer prize winning journalist who wrote for the New York Times. Worked as a foreign correspondent based in lagos in the mid-70s. Wrote many, many articles about Fela, including this one where he watched Fela get ready right before he performed at the shrine. Would you mind reading this? This is you, you reading you. Because we, Ruby and I have been trying to find as vivid descriptions as we can of the atmosphere. And this, this is actually one of the more vivid that we've ever read.

[Nina Darton]

New York Times.

[Jad Abumrad]

New York Times. That voice is Nina Darton, John's wife, also a longtime journalist.

[Nina Darton]

Fella's pre game ritual. The show begins at 1am Inside the nearby Calcutta Republic. Fella prepares for it from a jar. He spoons up liberal doses glitter, gooey substance nicknamed Fella gold distilled extract of marijuana. Full length mirrors are brought before him and held by two young boys. He slowly slips into skin tight sequined pants and a white shirt open to the waist, arranging his strings of beads as if he were smoothing a neckt. Six bodyguards draw near. Let's go. Fella says. And the entourage moves outside where there is a crowd of several hundred people. Some have been waiting for hours, clinging to the barbed wire to catch a glimpse of him. A chant. Fella. Fella rumbles out of the dark.

[Michael Veal]

Fantastic.

[Jad Abumrad]

It is really good.

[Nina Darton]

And as he walked and he got on a donkey. Well, that was the second death.

[Jad Abumrad]

As he got on a donkey.

[Narrator]

What?

[Jad Abumrad]

Okay, wait. Sorry.

[Nina Darton]

As he walked, he was a showman, you know, drivers would get out and raise a fist and yell fella, Fella. Anyway, then he starts playing and I have never seen, I think a performer quite as dynamic as that. He was absolutely incredible.

[Jad Abumrad]

Before we go back into the shrine, well, first let me give you a picture. It is a open air club fits about 500 people. There's a tin roof over the stage, but no roof over the dance floor. And to either side of the stage are four studio 54ish cages where dancers dance. Also, to one side there is an altar where Fellah had a picture of his mother, a picture of Malcolm X and a picture of Kwame Nkrumah, the first president of Ghana. But I'll be honest, what's most interesting to me is not so much the shrine itself. I mean, it was a club, but rather what happened to people when they went inside of it. Because do you know how people talk about psilocybin now? Right? Like we all have one of those friends who did some mushrooms and it changed their life and they can't stop talking about it. And there's a way to explain those experiences. You can say neurochemistry, right? There's something about these drugs. They rewire your brain. Fine. We ran into so many people who described listening to Fellah's music at the shrine in the same way that it had the same effect on them, which is a little harder to explain, though. I will try in a moment. But first let's re enter the shrine from their perspective. And as you're listening, see if you can let yourself notice. What are you paying attention to? How does that change over time? 1:00am Fela arrives on his donkey, takes the stage with 35 other musicians. And he begins a riff that will last most of the night. My experience in being in the shrine.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

Was like the music was inside of.

[Jad Abumrad]

Me, was all around.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

It was just like being hypnotized.

[Jad Abumrad]

Like you are all inside the music. Kind of hypnotic. Dancing reacts to music.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

Dancing English Queen.

[Jad Abumrad]

I remember being lost in music. All the people are smoking around me and we are in a mist. So you're in a different world.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

This idea of spiral, spiral, spiral and circle. It's another way to deal with time.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

React to.

[Moses Uchunu]

I always describe it as a swirl.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

You know when, when you have a cyclo, it starts off as this little.

[Moses Uchunu]

Thing that builds up.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

And it builds up. The more you allow it to circulate, it just starts to get bigger, get bigger, get bigger, get bigger Circle. Get, get bigger, get bigger, get bigger, get bigger, get bigger, get bigger. Fella starts his music to enchant this reference. Repetitive pattern. The power of the musical ostenato. It's part of that enchanting strategy. You've been captured. I thought this is really an amazing new form of music. It was almost like a field of sound that sits there for a long Time.

[Jad Abumrad]

And you explore it, you kind of enter it and live in it.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

This is a place, this isn't a song.

[Nina Darton]

Meanwhile, the rhythm sections keeping going, going, going, going, going, going, going.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

This is a place.

[Jad Abumrad]

And when you start listening to it, you're entering into that place.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

Like the music was like inside of.

[Jad Abumrad]

Me was all around and just like.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

You know, being hypnotized by.

[Jad Abumrad]

Not exactly.

[Michael Veal]

And so with Fella, you could tell that there was a different kind of intention behind this paradigm of groove. The music is so nasty, you have to dance. But that's just the ground level. Because why would you play a song for 30 minutes or 40 minutes unless you really have something to say?

[Nina Darton]

And then suddenly after half an hour, 40 minutes, He starts singing.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

Whether you like or you don't like. After you hear this little dock. Whether you like or you don't like, after you hear this little talk. If you like it good, if you know like you hung, if you like it good. If you not like you hung, if you hang, you go die. You go die for nothing. We go carry your body, Go police station. You die wrongfully. When his voice is came in, I.

[Michael Veal]

Was like, what the hell?

[Moses Uchunu]

There are words too.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

All of them. 10 to 15 years in jail. After one year, he hold up.

[Moses Uchunu]

What is this?

[Nina Darton]

He sings in a gravelly, low pitched voice and sings about things that no one else ever even mentioned. Any newspaper, any columnist.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

He talks about the United nations, he talks about Thatcher, he talks about Reagan. Like it, it's really everything. It's like a history lesson.

[Nina Darton]

You see it sinking in. You could see ideas in the air floating from the stage like thought balloons and then sinking into somebody's skull.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

I just felt, where has my mind been all my life? Complete surprise.

[Moses Uchunu]

Like, I was immediately captivated.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

Why did we not know this? Why aren't we thinking about this stuff?

[Jad Abumrad]

When fella singing to a microphone, I saw the, the light, I was just.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

Like, you know, like he sucks you.

[Moses Uchunu]

In and then it has that light bulb effect on you. You come into yourself and you know, it's a moment of introspection too, because you realize that you haven't been as attuned as you probably should have.

[Lulu Miller]

All the stuff he was singing was.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

Just new to me. You know, I was just learning so much about Nigerian history through Fela that I had not learned in school.

[Jad Abumrad]

Before we go on the voices you just heard. In addition to Michael Veal and John Darten were Stephanie Shonekhan and Bode Omojola, both professors of ethnomusicology at the University of Maryland and Mount Holyoke, respectively. Afrobeat musicians Dele Shoshimi and Duro Ikugenyo. Activist, filmmaker, musician Saul Williams, musician and producer Brian Eno, artist Lemmy Gariaku, photographer Marilyn Nance, designer Lorraine Animosin. And our advisor, Moses Uchunu, who's a professor of history and my colleague at Vanderbilt University. He was one of the last voices you heard, And I asked him. You said the music made you feel like you needed to tune into things you hadn't been tuning into. Like what?

[Moses Uchunu]

You know, when I was growing up in Nigeria, you know, we would hear about corruption, about thousands of naira being embezzled by some politician or government official. And we would open our mouths in shock because our brains couldn't compute how one person would make off with thousands of naira. How would the person carry this money? What would they put it in? In some boxes, in some cars, you know, physically, how would they move this money? You know, we just couldn't fathom it. And then over time, we started hearing about millions. Not thousands anymore, then billions. And now, as we speak, the corruption numbers have entered the trillions that over time, has had a numbing effect, a dulling effect. The shock value, the kind of shock that I felt as a child growing up in Nigeria, the moral outrage that I felt, that's gone. That's long gone.

[Jad Abumrad]

And that is what would come back when you heard his songs, right?

[Moses Uchunu]

Exactly.

[Jad Abumrad]

Moses said that Fellah's music would remind him of the insanity that he had been sane, washed into, believing was normal. And I think that there's something really interesting about how the music can move him to that thought. Music is all about structure, right? Structuring the relationship between notes and chords and melodies. But here you have structure on a. On an entirely different level. Almost like a phenomenological structure. For the first 15 minutes, it's just loops. Ostinato is going round and round.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

The power of the musical ostinato.

[Jad Abumrad]

Ostinato in Italian, by the way, means basically stubborn. The loops stubbornly repeat. And at first it's not so bad. It's kind of grounding, actually. But then the natural response is then to want some change. Like, can we go to the next section now, please, please? No. This is what the Buddhists call our monkey mind. Our monkey mind wants distraction. It wants anything to keep us from having to live with our own thoughts. But the music doesn't give us that. It doesn't change. It only builds. Layers get added piece by piece, instrument by instrument. And at some point, a few Minutes in, you arrive at this mysterious moment where you stop wanting it to change. This is phase two. Now that part of you that wants novelty starts to notice things like, whoa, listen to all the interlocking parts of this groove.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

Oh, the Austin Mars, they're like machine gears. They don't grind. The gears are timed in between each other so they just softly fit into the little gaps and holes like that.

[Jad Abumrad]

The way that the conga plays off the shaker call in response. The way that the three guitar lines spin around endlessly like gears and a higher level clock. My God, this groove is a whole world. This is the trance state. Usually when we talk about trance, we mean a kind of dulling of our senses, but actually it's the opposite. It's a state of hyper focus. You are noticing things. You're hearing things you've never heard before because your neurons are rewired. You are open. And it is at this very moment that Fela begins to sing.

[Michael Veal]

I was like, what the hell?

[Moses Uchunu]

There are words too.

[Jad Abumrad]

In comes his voice, booming like the voice of God. This is phase three. And because you are open, you really hear what he is saying.

[Nina Darton]

You see it sinking in. You could see ideas in the air, floating from the stage like thought balloons and then sinking into somebody's skull.

[Jad Abumrad]

And in that way, as the final piece of this progression, he gives you a new conception of what your life can be. I saw the light that you can now dance to.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

My music, my main. My main preoccupation right now. Music is a small.

[Jad Abumrad]

This is a clip from an interview fela gave in 1988 where he describes his musical form almost as this vehicle designed to move people step by step by step so that they can hear what he has to say.

[Moses Uchunu]

Is your music kind of a tool?

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

It's a weapon. It's a weapon to say, so I can talk when I have the chance to. I consider music to be effective, like a weapon to inform people. My music is like an attraction to inform people. It is the information side of the music that is important.

[Jad Abumrad]

In that same interview, he suggests that there's something else going on here too, that has to do with time itself.

[Fela Kuti (archival audio)]

If anybody tells me 20 years is a long time, I would tell him, no. Time is meaningless unless you want to understand what time is about. There is time for everything.

[Jad Abumrad]

Coming up, that idea of cycles is going to become not just about the music, but so much more cycles of history, of violence, of resistance. We're going to follow all of the interlocking ostinatos of Fellah's groove across time and space into the deep past to an incredible story of a rebellion that deposed a king that created a sound that continues to echo to this day on the streets of Lagos and the world. That's next.

[Lulu Miller]

Okay, so, Jad, thank you. The series is.

[Narrator]

It is a Magnum open. It is so good.

[Lulu Miller]

It is. It is. And yet there'll be another Magnum because, you know, he'll keep going despite trying to leave. But it is so special, it's amazing.

[Jad Abumrad]

This might be the last one. We'll see.

[Lulu Miller]

Where else is the series going and where can people find it? What's it called?

[Jad Abumrad]

So the series is gonna go all kinds of places. It's called Fela Kuti Fear. No, man. The next one is my fave. It's a story about Fela's mom.

[Nina Darton]

Oh, yeah.

[Jad Abumrad]

So good. Who is so extraordinary that you're. That immediately made me being like, wait, why are we talking about him?

[Narrator]

Right? It felt like you could.

[Jad Abumrad]

You could flip it.

[Narrator]

You could do the 12 episode series about her and then one episode about him in the middle of it.

[Jad Abumrad]

Exactly. Because what she accomplished is so bananas.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah.

[Jad Abumrad]

And again, just with music. So, yeah, that episode is next.

[Lulu Miller]

Wait, and can you share the title of that episode?

[Jad Abumrad]

It's called Vengeance of the Vagina Head and it's not a title we made of. It was what the newspapers called the revolt that she led. At the time they called it Vengeance of the Vagina Head. Just let that be a tease. This has been a Higher Ground and Audible original produced by Audible. Higher Ground Audio, Western sound and talk house series was created and executive produced by me, Chad Abumrad, Ben Adair and Ian Wheeler. Written and hosted by yours truly, Higher Ground executive producers were Nick White, Mukta Mohan and Dan Fearman. Jen 11 was creative executive and Corinne Gilliard Fisher was executive producer. Executive producers for Audible were Ann Hepperman, Glenn Pogue and Nick d'. Angelo. Our senior producer was Gofan Utubele. Ruby Heron Walsh was lead producer and researcher. Our producers were Fefe Odudu and Oluakemi Aladdiusui. Ben Adair was our editor with editing help, Carla Murthy. Consulting producers were Bolu Babalola, Dotun Ayubade, Neeth Abdurraqib, Michael Veal, Moses Achunu and Judith Byfield. Our fact checker was Jamilah Wilkinson. Alex McInnis was the mix engineer. Also special thanks to Knitting Factory Records and BMG to the Kuti family, Melissa o' Donnell to Inside Projects, Maggie Taylor, and big thanks to Carla Murthy. Leah Friedman and Shoshana Scholar. The head of creative development at audible is kate navin. Chief content officer, rachel piazza. Copyright 2025 by higher ground audio, llc. Sound recording copyright 2025 by higher ground audio, llc.

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

Hi, I'm Shivansha Moody and I'm from Mumbai. And. And here are the staff credits. Radiolab is hosted by Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser. Soren Wheeler is our Executive editor. Sara Sandbach is our Executive director. Our Managing editor is Pat Walters. Dylan Keefe is our Director of Sound design. Our staff includes Simon Adler, Jeremy Bloom, W. Harry Fortuna, David Gable, Maria Paz Gutierrez Sindhu, Niana Sambandhan, Matt Kielti, Mona Madgaokar, Annie McEwen, Alex Neeson, Sara Khari, Anissa Vidza, Ariane Wack, Molly Webster, and Jessica Young, with help from Rebecca Rand. Our fact checkers are Diane Kelly, Emily Krieger, Anna Pujol Mazzini, and Natalie Middleton.

[Jad Abumrad]

Leadership support for Radiolab science programming is provided by the Simons foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Found. Hey, guys. Back at the playground again, huh?

[Latif Nasser]

Yep.

[Lulu Miller]

You know what this playground could use?

[Listener/Guest (possibly a fan or participant)]

A wine country?

[Michael Veal]

Heck, yeah.

[Nina Darton]

And some waves so we could go surfing.

[Jad Abumrad]

I love that.

[Lulu Miller]

A redwood forest would be cool.

[Latif Nasser]

I'm in.

[Jad Abumrad]

Ah, ski slopes.

[Narrator]

Let's do it.

[Jad Abumrad]

10 a girl go shopping. Wait, did we just invent California? Discover why California is the ultimate [e-mail].

[Lulu Miller]

What can 160 years of experience teach you about the future? When it comes to protecting what matters, Pacific Life provides life insurance, retirement income and employee benefits for people and businesses building a more confident tomorrow. Strategies rooted in strength and backed by experience. Ask a financial professional how Pacific Life can help you today. Pacific Life Insurance Co. Omaha, Nebraska and in New York, Pacific Life & Annuity, Phoenix, Arizona.