Haunted

Summary

Radiolab Episode Summary: "Haunted"

Radiolab, hosted by Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser, delves into a spine-chilling yet humor-infused ghost story in the episode titled "Haunted." This long-form summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting key discussions, insights, and emotional moments experienced by Dennis Conroe as he navigates the supernatural challenges associated with his family home.

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1. Introduction to the Ghost Story

The episode sets the stage for a Halloween special, introducing a ghost story that balances genuine spookiness with moments of levity. Hosted by Latif Nasser, the narrative unfolds through the recounting of producer Matt Kilty's first ghost story report.

Latif Nasser [00:10]: "We're celebrating Halloween by bringing you a ghost story for the occasion... It's both a trick and the perfect fun sized Halloween treat."

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2. Dennis Conroe's Background

Dennis Conroe, the protagonist, moves back to his family home in Grandview after being laid off and facing prolonged unemployment. At 28, he grapples with feelings of stagnation and a pressing need to renovate his aging family house.

Brittany [03:02]: "The house was fairly old... about 105 years old at the time."

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3. Family Tragedies and Their Impact

Dennis's decision to leave home is interrupted by the sudden illnesses of his parents. His mother succumbs to breast cancer, followed by his father's diagnosis and eventual death from stage four prostate cancer. These events compel Dennis to return home to care for his ailing father.

Brittany [05:00]: "She went pretty fast. About a month or so after my mom died, my dad found out he had stage four prostate cancer."

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4. Moving Back and Beginning Renovations

At 32, armed with newfound responsibilities, Dennis attempts to sell the house but faces setbacks. Determined to revamp the property, he embarks on extensive renovations without prior experience, learning skills like tiling and plumbing through online tutorials.

Brittany [07:06]: "I was like, oh, just do this one bathroom... So he went online, learned how to tile, do some plumbing, and he redid the bathroom and turned out pretty good."

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5. Supernatural Disturbances Emerge

As renovations progress, Dennis begins experiencing unsettling dreams where his deceased parents appear, undoing his work and restoring the house to its former state. These recurring nightmares amplify his sense of being haunted by the past.

Brittany [07:41]: "At night, I would have these dreams where my parents just kind of came through the back door... and they would have somehow undone all of the things that I did."

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6. Initial Paranormal Encounters

Dennis hosts his first open house to sell the renovated house, during which a potential buyer senses a "weird presence" near the basement door. This incident marks the beginning of multiple visitors reporting similar paranormal experiences.

Brittany [08:37]: "I had made this friend, and she came over for the first time... 'There's some kind of weird presence here.'"

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7. Gathering Paranormal Investigators

In response to recurring reports, Dennis invites the Kansas City Paranormal Investigators Club to examine the house. A team of investigators, including tech experts and psychics, arrives to uncover the source of the hauntings.

Latif Nasser [11:22]: "They're part of the Kansas City Paranormal Investigators Club or some kind of thing."

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8. The Paranormal Encounter with Dennis's Parents

During the investigation, psychics attempt to communicate with the spirits using a flashlight technique. Dennis engages directly with the apparitions of his deceased parents, leading to an emotional and seemingly supernatural dialogue.

Brittany [19:25]:

Dennis: "Dad, are you here? I need you to turn on a light if you are."

Brittany: "Do you think he's in the basement or here or... Can we go upstairs and just talk to him?"

Dennis: "Yes. So, Dad, are you a good spot? Are you okay?"

The interaction culminates in Dennis receiving affirmative responses from both parents through the activation of the flashlights, symbolizing their approval and encouragement to move forward.

Brittany [20:08]: "Is, you know, is mom here, too? Is mom here, too?" Both lights light up brightly.

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9. Practical Explanation vs. Emotional Experience

Post-encounter, Dennis grapples with skepticism and the emotional weight of the experience. Radiolab explores the tension between rational explanations and personal beliefs in the supernatural.

Latif Nasser [26:01]: "When you turn the flashlight on, and when you turn the flashlight on, the bulb gets really hot... that's your circuit."

This technical breakdown offers a non-paranormal explanation for the ghostly phenomena, yet Dennis remains emotionally attached to his experience.

Brittany [27:59]: "I know that the way the world works is the way that the world works. People don't come back from the dead. People don't talk to you through flashlights."

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10. Ongoing Haunting and Conclusion

Despite selling the house and moving out, Dennis continues to experience unsettling dreams, now embodying the role of a ghost trying to influence new occupants. This perpetual cycle underscores the lingering impact of unresolved emotions and past traumas.

Brittany [28:59]: "Now the dreams are that I am the one haunting the house of the new people, where I will just walk in... It never stops."

The episode concludes by reflecting on the metaphorical nature of ghost stories, emphasizing how they allow individuals to process grief, guilt, and loss.

Latif Nasser [28:12]: "We all feel, you know, guilt for the things that we've done in our past... that ghost stories... let us talk about these things that we can't adequately talk about."

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Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

• Latif Nasser [00:10]: "We're celebrating Halloween by bringing you a ghost story for the occasion..."
• Brittany [05:00]: "She went pretty fast. About a month or so after my mom died..."
• Brittany [07:06]: "I was like, oh, just do this one bathroom..."
• Brittany [19:25]: Dennis: "Dad, are you here? I need you to turn on a light if you are."
• Latif Nasser [26:01]: "When you turn the flashlight on, and when you turn the flashlight on, the bulb gets really hot..."

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Final Thoughts

"Haunted" masterfully intertwines personal tragedy with supernatural elements, creating a narrative that resonates on both emotional and psychological levels. Through Dennis Conroe's journey, Radiolab explores the human need to find meaning beyond the tangible, illustrating how ghost stories serve as conduits for expressing and coping with profound personal experiences.

Transcript

[Brittany]

Listener supported WNYC Studios.

[Latif Nasser]

Hey, I'm Latif Nasser. This is Radiolab. In your podcast feed, a day early because it is October 31st, we're celebrating Halloween by bringing you a ghost story for the occasion. There aren't a lot of radio stories out there that will genuinely spook you, but also make you laugh out loud. And this one. Oh, man, does exactly that. We first released it exactly 10 years ago today, reported by our now senior producer, Matt Kilty. This was one of his first stories, actually. It's about exactly how far one man is willing to go to understand his haunted house. This story is both a trick and the perfect fun sized Halloween treat. So here you go. Happy Halloween. Enjoy. Haunted.

[Brittany]

Wait, you're listening? All right. Okay.

[Latif Nasser]

All right. You're listening to Radio Lab Radio from wnyc. Rewind.

[Brittany]

I think. I think there's a lot of moments in your life that you find yourself doing something. Okay. If there's anybody in here, my name is Brittany. I'd love to be able to talk with you. And you take that moment and step back from it. Are you here? And you realize, come through to us. What the am I doing? What just happened? Was this real? And I think that was one of those moments.

[Latif Nasser]

Hey, I'm Jad Abumrad. I'm Robert Krulch. This is Radiolab. And today on the podcast, A Ghost Story.

[Brittany]

Really? We're gonna do a ghost story?

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah, it's Halloween, dude. Well, you don't even know what we're. Just listen, all right? Just listen. Okay. Okay. This one comes from our producer, Matt Kilty. Yeah. So I first heard this story from a buddy of mine.

[Brittany]

Do, do do do do do.

[Latif Nasser]

His name is Dennis Conroe.

[Brittany]

Dennis, Andy.

[Latif Nasser]

Hey, what's up, dude? That's producer Andy Mills. You guys are all buddies? Total buds. Anyways, the story. All right. Well, Dennis, yes, it's about a lot of things, but in particular, a house.

[Brittany]

So let's start with the house.

[Latif Nasser]

When did you move back in?

[Brittany]

Well, let's see. I was probably, I don't know, age 20.

[Latif Nasser]

Dennis had been going to college.

[Brittany]

Yep.

[Latif Nasser]

By the way, what did you study?

[Brittany]

Creative writing.

[Latif Nasser]

Okay.

[Brittany]

But, you know, I just kind of got bored there. Kind of stopped going to class. And I think once my parents realized that, they weren't very happy.

[Latif Nasser]

I would assume so.

[Brittany]

And so, yeah, I was kind of asked to come back home.

[Latif Nasser]

Back to a town just outside Kansas.

[Brittany]

City, a little town called Grandview.

[Latif Nasser]

Did you grow up in this house?

[Brittany]

I did, I did. And the house was fairly Old? Yeah, it was about 105 years old at the time.

[Latif Nasser]

Two story White House, nice little porch, awning over it.

[Brittany]

Typical farmhouse style.

[Latif Nasser]

And so you were at your parents home back, what, in your old bedroom?

[Brittany]

Yep, in my old childhood bedroom, yeah. So there was always a sense of like, I need to get out of this house. It's holding me back somehow from things.

[Latif Nasser]

So we got a job, worked a.

[Brittany]

Job and got laid off.

[Latif Nasser]

And one year turned into two, and then three, then four, and then five.

[Brittany]

It was not a great time to be there.

[Latif Nasser]

In what way?

[Brittany]

Just that I felt like I was still 16.

[Latif Nasser]

He says he'd overhear his mom telling people on the phone, well, you know.

[Brittany]

He'S never gotta move out, is he?

[Latif Nasser]

And then she started circling classifieds jobs.

[Brittany]

For typists, printing press, sales rep, typesetter. I don't know, I think everything in my life, however, I mean for it not to sort of moves at my own snail's pace. Eventually, he was fairly old. Like 27, maybe.

[Latif Nasser]

Actually, he was 28. After eight years in this house, Dennis gets a steady job, finds his cheap.

[Brittany]

Apartment, this ratty sixplex apartment.

[Latif Nasser]

He starts packing up his things. But right when he's set to move.

[Brittany]

Out, to finally leave home, my mom got really sick.

[Latif Nasser]

Dennis mom had been in remission from breast cancer for like nine years. But that summer, her doctors told her.

[Brittany]

That it had returned and had spread quite a bit. So I said to her, like, you know, do you. Do you want me to be here or do you want me to go? And she was like, well, you know, if this is my time, she wants to go, knowing that her kids can take care of themselves.

[Latif Nasser]

So Dennis moved out, and about five months later, his mom died.

[Brittany]

Yeah, she went pretty fast. About. About a month or so after my mom died, my dad found out he had stage four prostate cancer.

[Latif Nasser]

Wow.

[Brittany]

And he was really too sick to take care of the house. And just being a guy by himself.

[Latif Nasser]

At that point now, Dennis pretty much had to come home.

[Brittany]

I take care of him three, four times a week. And as he got worse, he had said to me, like, hey, let's try to find you a house to buy so that I can teach you how to, like, do all of the kind of stuff that one has to do. Yeah, that men know how to do. Things like change out plumbing, all this kind of stuff. And so we put an offer on.

[Latif Nasser]

A house, but that fell through. And before they could find something else.

[Brittany]

The cancer from his prostate spread to his brain. And, you know, the last week of his life he was really not there. I can remember one day, you know, like, maybe. Maybe a week or so after he.

[Latif Nasser]

Had died, Dennis was walking through the.

[Brittany]

Empty kitchen, and there was so much stuff. There was so much stuff. Papers all over the place, junk mail all over the kitchen floor, down in the basement, tools all over the place. You know, I had this moment of, you know, here are his tools, and I. And now I have them in my hand. And, you know, I just remember picking up this claw hammer and just crying because this is now my hammer. This is now my house. This is now my problem.

[Latif Nasser]

But a few days pass, and he starts thinking, okay, I can handle this. Yeah, just gotta get in there, clean it out, sell it clean and flip.

[Brittany]

That was the plan.

[Latif Nasser]

So at the age of 32, moves back in.

[Brittany]

There was all this just junk in the basement.

[Latif Nasser]

Puts that stuff on the curb, sale.

[Brittany]

After sale, after sale.

[Latif Nasser]

And one day, he finds himself standing in the downstairs bathroom looking at the nasty floor tile.

[Brittany]

It was just horrible.

[Latif Nasser]

His dad had meant to replace it before he died, but, you know, couldn't finish.

[Brittany]

And my thought was, like, oh, just do this one bathroom, so it looks pretty good to sell.

[Latif Nasser]

Problem was, his dad had never showed him how to do any of that stuff.

[Brittany]

It was at that point that I was like, oh, YouTube. Now hold the tile in one hand firmly and begin with your ceramic tile nipper.

[Latif Nasser]

So he went online, learned how to tile, do some plumbing, and he redid.

[Brittany]

The bathroom and turned out pretty good. It was kind of fun. And then the next thing I knew, I was taking wallpaper off of the kitchen. That's gotta go. Hardwood floors, insulation in the attic, glass block windows in the basement. Pretty soon, that turned into the whole house.

[Latif Nasser]

How long does that take?

[Brittany]

Uh, five years.

[Latif Nasser]

Actually, it was six.

[Brittany]

Wow.

[Latif Nasser]

And he says the whole time he was doing this renovation.

[Brittany]

At night, I would have these dreams where my parents just kind of came through the back door, and it was just like, oh, what are you doing here? Oh, that's right, you're dead. And then I would turn my back, and then they would have somehow undone all of the things that I did.

[Latif Nasser]

Oh.

[Brittany]

They had brought the house back to.

[Latif Nasser]

What state it was in when they were alive.

[Brittany]

Yeah. And I probably had this dream, I'm not kidding, like, at least a hundred times. Wow.

[Latif Nasser]

Night after night after night, it just.

[Brittany]

Kept going on and on and ultimately kind of drove me crazy.

[Latif Nasser]

And so one day, after yet another one of these dreams, Dennis is finally like, all right, I'm selling it. Puts it up on the market, starts Waiting for a buyer. And then something strange happens.

[Brittany]

Well, something kind of strange. I had made this friend, and she came over for the first time.

[Latif Nasser]

It was like a date. A lady friend?

[Brittany]

Yeah, it was a lady friend.

[Latif Nasser]

And so Dennis was giving her a tour, showing her all the improvements until.

[Brittany]

She was in the kitchen right by.

[Latif Nasser]

The basement door in the kitchen.

[Brittany]

When she was like, ugh, there's some kind of weird presence here. And I was just like, uh, okay. Well, that was kind of a sign that was not gonna last very long.

[Latif Nasser]

But fast forward a few years.

[Brittany]

Didn't really think too much about it until.

[Latif Nasser]

So one day, Dennis realtor is having an open house. No one shows.

[Brittany]

So she was in the house by.

[Latif Nasser]

Herself, and Dennis starts getting these text.

[Brittany]

Messages from her, like, dude, your house is haunted. Like, I can hear people walking around.

[Latif Nasser]

And she texted that there was definitely.

[Brittany]

Something weird going on right by the basement door.

[Latif Nasser]

Wait, that's the same spot. Yeah.

[Brittany]

Yeah. I was like, ah, that's kind of weird. But then here's the crazy thing.

[Latif Nasser]

Not too long after this, Dennis bumps into an old friend of his. And he's like, hey, funny thing. Two different people, two separate occasions, had come over to the house. And they said they felt this weird presence.

[Brittany]

And she was like, wait, right by the basement door.

[Latif Nasser]

Ah, get out.

[Brittany]

Yeah. And I was like, okay, so I've got Heather, I've got Stacy, I've got Carla. All three who say they feel this weird presence.

[Latif Nasser]

Would you consider yourself a bit of a skeptic about such things?

[Brittany]

I would say so rationally. I'm just gonna say no.

[Latif Nasser]

So you don't believe in ghosts?

[Brittany]

No.

[Latif Nasser]

All right, what happened next?

[Brittany]

Well, this also happened to be right. At the time that I sold the.

[Latif Nasser]

House, Dennis had finally put in some pen to paper, signed a contract, packed.

[Brittany]

Up all his stuff, and so Carla, the girl that first felt this thing.

[Latif Nasser]

The girl he went on a date with, they stayed friends, Said to me.

[Brittany]

Like, you know, I'm really curious about this. Would you mind if I call, like, these ghost people to come and check out this place? And it's like, well, sure, I don't care. You know, it's like, why not? So, very shortly, in a few minutes, actually, we are bringing paranormal investigators to find out what's in the basement. You know, I'm just kind of walking through the house, and I think I got this on tape of just me walking through the house. Like, well, you know, this is probably a waste of time, But I'm still kind of curious about it. Yeah, it's Friday night.

[Latif Nasser]

What else you gotta do?

[Brittany]

Yeah, right. It's a Friday night, mid November, around 6:00. I can see some cars parking on the street. So I go downstairs.

[Latif Nasser]

People start filing in.

[Brittany]

Maybe 10 people. We all have different specialties. Larry's our tech guy. About four techies, two sets of clairvoyance. Chantal's the psychic. She's very gifted.

[Latif Nasser]

Who are all these people?

[Brittany]

I want you to just say your name. My name is Brittany.

[Latif Nasser]

Elaine.

[Brittany]

Well, they're part of the Kansas City Paranormal Investigators Club or some kind of thing.

[Latif Nasser]

And pretty much right off the bat.

[Brittany]

When you guys came in, you were saying like you could talk to people. But when we first got here, we both saw a woman looking out the window at the top. So what did she look like? I didn't really see what she looked like. She had, like, 80 long hair. It was like gray. And she was wearing one of those.

[Latif Nasser]

Weird old timey dresses. Dennis was like, whatever.

[Brittany]

They set up cameras in the basement and in the kitchen.

[Latif Nasser]

And the clairvoyants decided they wanted to try to talk to this woman or maybe any other spirit in the house. And so Britney, I don't know if I even explained to you what we do. Who was like the ringleader of the night.

[Brittany]

She sort of explained how she does things. You know, she was like the best way that she could get them to talk to them was through flashlights, huh?

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah. So what they do is they take a few flashlights, turn them on, and then they unscrew the tops of them just enough so that they turn off. And then they just kind of set the flashlights that are now off in the room by themselves. And the idea is that if the ghost or the spirit wants to communicate, they can just sort of touch the top of one of the flashlights with their ghosty finger. And that'll turn it back on.

[Brittany]

When it's barely connected. All they have to do is either push or pull a tiny bit of energy. I see.

[Latif Nasser]

So it's not that easy.

[Brittany]

It's the hardest for them to do. And it was like, okay, I guess we can. So she took three flashlights and we all sat in this dark room in a circle. Okay.

[Latif Nasser]

And Britney sets the flashlights in the middle of the circle by themselves. No one's touching them.

[Brittany]

And she says, if there's anybody in.

[Latif Nasser]

Here, my name is Brittany.

[Brittany]

I'd love to be able to talk with you. Can you turn one of those lights on? And we sit there. And we sit there. Are you here? Then all of a sudden, this light kind of barely blinks on. And then she said, okay, thank you. Please turn it off. And then it goes off. What we can do with these lights here is if I can ask. And then she says, we have three lights here. The one you just turned on, we'll call. Yes, please turn on one more, and that will be no. So if you could do that for us, that would be wonderful. And then a second light comes on.

[Latif Nasser]

No way. Are you, like, scanning the room looking for somebody who has a little switch or something?

[Brittany]

Yeah, but we didn't pay these people, so they have no reason to fake this. I suppose. But I just keep thinking, well, you know, the house is really close to the train tracks, and maybe the train.

[Latif Nasser]

The vibrations of the train.

[Brittany]

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. But all of a sudden, they were like, can you hear that? Footsteps? Yeah, it sounds like there's somebody walking right here in front of me. And they're going towards the kitchen. And I could hear dishes rattling on the countertop in the kitchen.

[Latif Nasser]

No one's in the kitchen.

[Brittany]

No one's in the kitchen. If you're in the kitchen right now, can you turn one of these lights on?

[Latif Nasser]

And so they sit and stare at these three flashlights. And then.

[Brittany]

I am this point, leaving the room.

[Latif Nasser]

What happened? Well, actually, everyone. Everyone in that room died except for Dennis.

[Brittany]

Oh, God.

[Latif Nasser]

I have no idea why I even invited you into this building. They did not die. What happened to them? Scare me. They're actually. They're fine. It turns out that there was a guy downstairs in the basement. One of the techies walking around pitch black down there, and he just, like, bangs his head into, like, an air duct. And the sound just reverberated throughout the whole house.

[Brittany]

Scared him a little bit.

[Latif Nasser]

It was very Blair Witchy. Yeah.

[Brittany]

Anyhow, the techies decide that they want to get the three psychics down in the basement by themselves. And so, you know, these three women go down in the basement by themselves. We kind of hear them downstairs talking, but we don't really know what's going on. That was interesting. They come back upstairs, and they said the girl was downstairs. Well, she was definitely down there.

[Latif Nasser]

The old woman that they first saw when they got to the house. And they said that she was standing down in the basement next to where the old furnace used to be. And they told Dennis that she said that she'd lived here for a long time. And Dennis was like, wait a second. He knew that back in the 30s or something, a woman had lived in.

[Brittany]

This house who was kind of not all there.

[Latif Nasser]

And one day she had gone down into the basement and thought she was.

[Brittany]

Picking lice off of chickens and throwing them into this big furnace that was downstairs in the basement at the time.

[Latif Nasser]

She got a little too close to the furnace, story goes, caught herself on.

[Brittany]

Fire and then died there, I guess, in the basement.

[Latif Nasser]

Oh.

[Brittany]

But then there was another man downstairs who showed himself to me, but he won't talk, and he just completely disappeared. What did he look like? He was bald. He was about Rick's height, but it wasn't Rick. Do you have a bill like me? Yeah, a lot like me. Not a lot, but similar, definitely. If I were to show you a picture of my father, would you have any sense of this was him? If I saw a picture of him? Yeah, maybe. I found this the other day.

[Latif Nasser]

Dennis goes and gets this photo of his dad that he had that was left over from his memorial service.

[Brittany]

Yep, that's the man I saw. Really? Yep.

[Latif Nasser]

Wow.

[Brittany]

Let's pause this for just a second. She's very hesitant at the beginning, just.

[Latif Nasser]

Like, well, you know, I should jump in here really quick and just tell you that this was actually the first time that Dennis had ever listened to this tape. Really? Yeah. And the reason is because for a long time, he didn't want to listen to it. Why? Well, I think part of it had to do with this moment, because this.

[Brittany]

Is the point where my skepticism kind.

[Latif Nasser]

Of kicked off, and part of it had to do with what happens next. That's coming up when we return. This is Radiolab. Let's get back to Matt Kilty's ghost story. And we pick up with our main guy, Dennis Conroe, having just heard from the ghost hunters that they encountered a spirit in the basement of his home who looks remarkably like his dead father.

[Brittany]

Yep, that's the man I saw here. Yep. So he's here. Yep, he's here. Can we. Can we try to talk to him? We can try to talk to him. Do you think he's in the basement or here or. I feel like he went upstairs, not in the basement anymore. Can we go upstairs and just talk to him? Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, I hadn't really told them a whole lot about what the different rooms in the house were, but they led me upstairs to what was his room and to the corner of the room where his bed was.

[Latif Nasser]

And they had no idea that that used to be.

[Brittany]

They had no idea. And I said to them, okay, well, if he's gonna talk, he'll just talk to me. All right. Dad, are you here? I need you to turn on a light if you are. Thank you. Thank you, Dan. We're going to call that. Yes, if you can turn that one off now and turn on the no light. Any other light, please. I need to know that you're here. There you. Oh, thanks, dad. Do you want us to leave, dad? Would you like these people to leave and just talk to me? Yeah.

[Latif Nasser]

Yes.

[Brittany]

Okay. Dan, I want to know. Are you a good spot? Are you okay? Are you okay? Are you okay, dad? Yes. All right, good. I'm glad to hear that. Okay, everything off? Everything's off. Almost. Almost done. All right, thanks. I'm gonna ask you. Is, you know, is mom here, too? Is mom here, too? And the other of the three flashlights lights up, huh? Yes, she is here. All right. Hi, Mom. I want to know that if you're both here, that I love you very much and I miss you all the time. I have so many questions for you. I can't ask them all and just yes or no questions. But I said, well, have you been able to see the things that I've done to the house? And both of the lights lit up very brightly. Yes. And then. So I've lived here for six years. I've redone the house. I've undone a lot of things. Yeah. I said, what do you think? Are you happy with this? Are you happy with the things I've done with the house? And they both lit up very brightly. Yes. And I said, are you proud of me? Are you proud of what I've done, who I am, what I'm doing? It's very bright. It means a lot to me. So in a few days, guys, I'll probably never set foot in this house again. And I don't want you to stay here and feel like you belong here. I want you to go on and be free. Can you let go of this house? Are you willing to finally move on? Yes. Yeah. I'm going to leave you guys. I know that you've been haunting my dreams a lot about this house, and I know it's very important to you. It's very important to me.

[Latif Nasser]

But this is the time that.

[Brittany]

We leave.

[Latif Nasser]

So that's where it ends.

[Brittany]

Yeah. Yeah, that's how I call it, being exactly like that. And, yeah, I kind of teared up a pin.

[Latif Nasser]

And keep in mind that this was the first time that Dennis had heard this tape. And so we played it back to him because we just wanted to see, like, how he remembered that experience, you.

[Brittany]

Know, I guess part of. Part of part of my Fear of listening to it was that it would change it and that it would be a different experience. It would be a little more hokey, and it would be a little more unclear what was happening. But listening to it again, you know, it was as I recalled it being.

[Latif Nasser]

So in the end, does he believe he was actually talking to his dead parents? Well, no. No. I ended up actually calling this guy who explained to me how this whole flashlight thing works and that there is a perfectly non paranormal explanation as to what's going on with the flashlight. It almost feels bad manners at this point to have a practical explanation, But I'm very curious to hear it.

[Brittany]

Sure.

[Latif Nasser]

Well, what's going on is you turn the flashlight on, and when you turn the flashlight on, the bulb gets really hot, Right. And then you take the top of the flashlight and you unscrew it just like enough that the flashlight flickers off. So the flashlight's off, and the bulb, it got really hot. So the inside of the flashlight also got really hot. And there's this little piece of plastic inside the flashlight that when it got hot, it expanded. And now as the flash, since the flashlight's off, that piece of plastic, it starts to cool down and starts to contract. And when it contracts, it pushes these two tiny bits of metal together. These two little bits of metal come into contact, and that's your circuit. So the circuit opens the light bulb, it goes back on. Oh. Then it warms again and comes back. And then it gets hot. Yeah. And so the little piece of plastic, it starts to get hot, it starts to expand, it pushes the two pieces apart. And these people chose this flashlight because it had that particular property.

[Brittany]

Yeah.

[Latif Nasser]

Do you think it's like a con or something? No, I don't think so. No, I don't think so. I mean, I even talked to Dennis about this. He's like, I think they're just trying to make sense of randomness. I mean, I don't think they necessarily know that this flashlight light does this thing, and therefore they can manipulate people. Well, here's why I don't think it's a con. Because in this case, it's such a strange coincidence that whenever he wants his mom and dad, his ghostly mother and father, to approve of him and congratulate him and honor him with a yes. I mean, it's random. He could get a no, but he gets a yes. It's just chance.

[Brittany]

Hmm.

[Latif Nasser]

And you told Dennis all this? Yeah, I told Dennis because you told me to tell Dennis. It's true. I forced him. Okay. So when you told him? What did he say? Well, on one level, it didn't faze him. Dennis basically said, look, I know.

[Brittany]

I know that the way that the world works is the way that the world works. People don't come back from the dead. People don't talk to you through flashlights.

[Latif Nasser]

But he also said that he's not gonna let go of that experience. He wants to have it both ways.

[Brittany]

I guess so. I guess I wanna have both. Yes, this didn't happen, and, yes, this absolutely happened.

[Latif Nasser]

I understand that. Yeah. Cause even if you are the world's biggest skeptic, if you don't believe in ghosts, there really aren't that many ways to talk about these sorts of things. These sorts of things that we all feel, you know, guilt for, the things that we've done in our past, the loss of those who we've loved, that, like ghost stories, kind of seem to stick around because they are an experience, albeit like a metaphorical experience, but an experience that lets us talk about these things that we can't adequately talk about. You know, that feeling of being haunted. And Tissot. Did he eventually sell the house? Move out? Yeah. Yeah, sold the house, moved out. No more dreams of his parents haunting him?

[Brittany]

Well, it's been odd. In the time that I've sold the house now, I thought the dreams would stop, and now the dreams are that I am the one haunting the house of the new people, where I will just walk in. Really? Yeah. And just be like, hey, I'm here. That. Yeah. And are you, like, going around repairing things? Nope. I'm just, like, being somewhat shocked at what they've done to it. It's like it never stops, you know?

[Latif Nasser]

Thanks, Matt. No problem. Matt Kielty. I'm Jad Ibumran.

[Brittany]

I'm Robert Krulwich.

[Latif Nasser]

Thanks for listening.

[Brittany]

Hi, I'm David and I'm from Baltimore, Maryland. Radiolab was created by Jad Abumrad and is edited by Soren Wheeler. Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser are our co hosts. Dylan Keith is our director of sound design. Our staff includes Simon Adler, Jeremy Bloom, Becca Bressler, W. Harry Fortuna, David Gable, Maria Paz Gutierrez, Sindhu Nyanam Sambandan, Matt Kielty, Annie McEwen, Rebecca Lacks, Alex Neeson, Sara Khari, Sara Sandbach, Ariane Wack, Pat Walters, and Molly Webster. Our fact checkers are Diane Kelly, Emily Krieger, and Natalie Middleton. Hi, this is Ellie from Cleveland, Ohio. Leadership support for Radiolab Science programming is.

[Latif Nasser]

Provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation Science Sandbox Assignments foundation initiative and.

[Brittany]

The John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.