Radiolab: "How To Be A Hero"

Date: January 9, 2018
Hosts: Jad Abumrad, Robert Krulwich
Expert Guest: Robert Sapolsky, Neuroscientist (Stanford University)
Main Theme:
Radiolab revisits the question: What makes someone a hero? Through firsthand accounts of Carnegie Medal recipients and an exploration into the neuroscience of moral action, the episode investigates whether heroism is a matter of conscious choice, innate character, empathy, or something else entirely.

Episode Overview

The episode investigates the nature of heroic acts—moments when ordinary people risk their lives for others. Through stories of Carnegie Medal recipients, discussions with the Hero Fund director, and neuroscientific insight from Robert Sapolsky, Radiolab unpacks the split-second decision-making involved in acts of heroism. The central puzzle: What happens in the mind at the pivotal moment someone becomes a hero?

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is a Hero? – The Carnegie Definition

[01:45 – 02:39]

• Walter Rutkowski (Executive Director of the Carnegie Hero Fund) explains their criteria:
  • Civilian, not in the military
  • Voluntarily leaves a place of safety
  • Risks their life to an extraordinary degree
  • In an attempt to save another person's life

"A civilian who voluntarily leaves a point of safety to risk his own life or her own life to an extraordinary degree to save or attempt to save the life of another human." — Walter Rutkowski [02:21]

2. Firsthand Hero Stories

A. Laura Shrake: Facing Down a Bull
[03:02 – 05:59]

• At 21, Laura saw a woman being attacked by a bull, jumped through an electric fence, and fought off the bull to save her.
• Her mindset at the moment:
  • No calculation, "just, here's the problem. Here's what I need to do." [05:26]
  • She didn't recall thinking about her own safety.

"There was no choice moment... Not that I recall, no." — Laura Shrake [05:38]

B. William David Pennell: Into the Burning Car
[06:08 – 09:15]

• Awoken by a crash, ran barefoot outside and pulled three teenagers from a burning car.
• His motivation: thought about someone saving his own daughter in a similar circumstance.
• When neighbors didn't help, he never asked them why; isn't sure what made him different.

"I did what any normal person would do... I just kept saying, this is somebody's kid." — William Pennell [08:24]

C. Wesley Autry: Life on the Subway Tracks
[10:03 – 15:04]

• Dove in front of an incoming subway to shield a stranger having a seizure as the train passed overhead.
• His daughters watched from the platform—he left them to save a stranger.
• Referred to a past near-death experience and a deep-seated feeling of being "chosen" for the act.

"For some strange reason, a voice out of nowhere said, don't worry about your own. Don't worry about your daughters. You can do this." — Wesley Autry [11:57]
"I felt like I was the chosen one." — Wesley Autry [14:04]

3. Searching for the ‘Why’

[15:18 – 16:07]

• The hosts note the heroes often can’t explain their own actions.
• Even the Hero Fund director can't offer a definitive answer.

[16:12]

• Acts of heroism are not rare; the organization has made its guidelines stricter due to the abundance of heroic acts.

4. Science and the Roots of Heroism: Robert Sapolsky

[17:12 – 27:36]
Sapolsky brings neuroscience into the discussion:

• Key Insight: Heroic acts aren’t driven by deep, deliberate moral reasoning.

  • "Moral reasoning plays like zero role in what went on there." — Robert Sapolsky [17:42]

• Split-second, Implicit Action:

  • People act without thinking; high empathy may actually impede action because it can be emotionally overwhelming, causing withdrawal instead of engagement.
  • Those who act compassionately tend to maintain some emotional detachment.

"You need a certain amount of detachment. ...that runs counter to so many of our instincts about what empathy should be about." — Robert Sapolsky [21:00]

• Analogy with Learning a Skill:

  • Sapolsky compares heroic response to learning piano or tennis:
    • Initially, actions are deliberate (frontal cortex). With practice, skills become automatic (implicit/procedural memory).
    • The most reliably heroic people are those for whom compassionate action is "implicit"—automatic and practiced, not pondered.

• How does it get to be 'implicit'?

  • Likely through upbringing and habituation: being raised to help instinctively, rather than instructed to debate each moral case.

"It was people who had simply been raised, you do the right thing. It was automatic. It was implicit for them." — Robert Sapolsky [24:41]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Instinct, Not Deliberation:

  "Before I knew it, I had jumped in." — Laura Shrake [05:34]
  "I wasn't thinking, I was feeling about what if this were my 16 year old daughter..." — Robert Sapolsky [18:03]

• On Emotional Detachment and Empathy:

  "If it's painful enough and acute and burning enough...what that translates into is: I can't take it, this is too upsetting, and you need to run away at some point." — Robert Sapolsky [19:00]

• On Practice and Habit:

  "That's the first time your hands know it better than your head does." — Robert Sapolsky [23:14]

Important Timestamps & Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |---------------|------------------------------------------------| | 01:45–02:39 | Definition of a hero by Carnegie Hero Fund | | 03:02–05:59 | Laura Shrake’s bull rescue story | | 06:08–09:15 | William Pennell’s burning car rescue | | 10:03–15:04 | Wesley Autry subway rescue | | 17:12–27:36 | Robert Sapolsky’s neuroscientific perspective | | 21:00–21:51 | Why compassion relies on detachment | | 24:41 | Upbringing and automatism in compassion |

Conclusion

Radiolab finds that heroic acts are less about conscious choice or overwhelming empathy, and more about automatic, implicit responses—shaped both by experience and upbringing. Far from being rare beings, heroes might be people wired (by practice, by socialization) to leap before thinking. As Robert Sapolsky sums up, some of the most reliably heroic acts happen “when it’s implicit, when it’s automatic.”

"You don't reason, you don't feel, you just do it. Before I knew it, I had run in there." — Robert Sapolsky [26:56]

Further Reading:
Robert Sapolsky’s book Behave and the Radiolab “Good Show” episode for related explorations.