
Loading summary
VRBO Advertiser
Save over $200 when you book weekly stays with VRBO this winter. If you need to work, why not work from a chalet? If you haven't seen your college besties since, well, college. You need a week to fully catch up in a snowy cabin. And if you have to stay in a remote place with your in laws, you should save over $200 a week. That's the least we can do. So you might as well start digging out the long johns because saving over $200 on a week long snowcation rental is in the cards book now@vrbo.com.
Lowe's Advertiser
Lowe's early Black Friday deals are going fast. Don't miss up to 50% off. Select major appliances plus up to an extra 25% off when you bundle. Select major appliances and with Christmas around the corner, you're gonna need more string lights, right? Save $4 on GE LED 100 count string lights now just $5.98 Lowes we help you save valid through 12. 3 selection varies by location. Select locations only while supplies last. See Lowes.com for oh wait, you're listening.
Radiolab Sponsor Announcer
Okay Radiolab is supported by bilt. Nobody wants to pay rent, but if you have to, Bilt works to make it more worthwhile. By paying rent through Bilt, you can earn flexible points that can be redeemed toward hundreds of hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, your next Lyft ride, and more. But it doesn't stop there. You can dine out at your favorite local restaurants and earn additional points, get VIP treatment at certain fitness studios and enjoy exclusive experiences just for BILT members. Every month, earn points on rent and around your neighborhood, wherever you call home by going to joinbuilt.com Radiolab that's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com Radiolab.
Radiolab is supported by Rippling. Finance teams often spend weeks chasing receipts, reconciling spreadsheets and fixing errors across disconnected spend tools. This can be frustrating. And that's not software as a service. That's sad software as a disservice. If you've been thinking about replacing stitched together tech stacks with one platform for all departments, rippling can help. Rippling is a unified platform for global hr, payroll, IT and finance, helping people replace their mess of cobbled together tools with one system. Designed to help give leaders clarity, speed and control. By uniting employees, teams and departments in one system, Rippling works to remove the bottlenecks, busywork and silos in business software. With Rippling, you can choose to run HR IT and finance operations as one. Or pick and choose the products that best fill the gaps. Right now you can get 6 months free when you go to rippling.com Radiolab learn more at R-I P P L-I-N-G.com Radiolab terms and conditions apply.
Molly Webster
Hey, I'm Molly Webster and this is an ad by BetterHelp. So it happens every year. The seasons are changing, the days are getting shorter, and basically once it becomes dark outside of my window, I feel like the rest of the world disappears and I'm just alone and there's nothing left to do but watch television. This November, BetterHelp is asking everyone to reach out to our people. That could be your family, your friends, your neighbors, and to resist this call of the cocoon. And yeah, reaching out can take some courage. I've got text messages from January I haven't responded to and you know what? I'm gonna write em back right now. Hi, sorry I've been missing. How are you? Why don't we all do this sooner? Therapy is the same. BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. You just fill out a short questionnaire and they find a licensed therapist who they think you'll like. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com Radiolab that's betterhelp.com Radiolab.
Radiolab Sponsor Announcer
Radiolab is supported by Planet Visionaries, the podcast created in partnership with the Rolex Partners Perpetual Planet initiative. The show is hosted by Alex Honnold, who you may recognize from Free Solo, where he climbed El Capitan without ropes. Now he's turning his focus to the biggest challenge of protecting the only planet we've got. Every episode brings you stories that prove climate optimism isn't naive, it's a strategy. The episodes span the globe, from Arctic scientists and Amazon forest guardians to entrepreneurs reimagining fashion and food systems. You'll hear from explorers, scientists, activists and storytellers who are working to reshape the future in practical human ways. In one episode, Alex sits down with wildlife photographer Birdie Gregory to discuss how animals can teach humans resiliency, empathy and hope in partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. Check out Planet Visionaries Listen or watch on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Jad Abumrad
All right? Okay. All right. You're listening to Radiolab Radio Lab Sharks from wnyc.
Radiolab Sponsor Announcer
Yes, and npr.
Jad Abumrad
Hello, I'm Jad Abumrad.
Robert Krulwich
I'm Robert Krulwich.
Jad Abumrad
This is Radiolab, the podcast. Today on our podcast, we're gonna do what? We're gonna. We're gonna revisit something from our last podcast, the Numbers Show. And at the same time, we're gonna travel to a completely new universe.
Robert Krulwich
A whole new universe.
Jad Abumrad
You ready for this?
Radiolab Sponsor Announcer
Well, I don't know what we're doing.
Jad Abumrad
You genuinely don't know what we're about to do.
Robert Krulwich
Right.
Jad Abumrad
Will you just state that for.
Robert Krulwich
For the record, audience, people, I have no idea what is about to happen.
Jad Abumrad
That's good. I like you in that state. So, Tim, do you have the tape of the. The actual numbers? Yeah. Okay, so here's the thing. We're gonna be revisiting, remember this piece of tape? Four, five, six, six.
Radiolab Sponsor Announcer
Yeah.
Jad Abumrad
Can you do that? One, two.
Robert Krulwich
Okay.
Jad Abumrad
Don't touch the microphone.
Robert Krulwich
Oh, sure. Of course. This is from the numbers piece.
VRBO Advertiser
Numbers 1 to 10.
Jad Abumrad
I'll let you touch the microphone. 1, 2, 3.
VRBO Advertiser
1, 2, 3.
Jad Abumrad
Do you want to just maybe give it. Set it up, give it some context?
Robert Krulwich
Okay, so what you're listening to is one of the stars of Radiolab. She's now about 2 years old. She's actually. This is her second appearance on the program.
Jad Abumrad
That's right. Her name's Mina.
Molly Webster
Mina.
Jad Abumrad
Can you count? When do we get.
Robert Krulwich
And Mina in this case is learning the business of counting.
Jad Abumrad
Yes, that was raw tape recorded of Mina counting. Lulu Miller recorded it. And Mina's mother, we should also say, is Amanda Aronchak. Okay, so what I'm gonna do is take that tape and play it for you in a completely new context, a non Radiolab context. What? Maybe I need to say that again. A completely new context.
Robert Krulwich
You're a wild and crazy guy. Okay, I won't even ask why.
Jad Abumrad
Go ahead, I'll set it up for you. Okay, here's the backst. Okay. In 1964, there was a piece of music that we're going to talk about now called NC in C. In C.
Robert Krulwich
Is that like I N S E E as in I, I, C?
Jad Abumrad
No, no, it's like in letter C, like in the key of C. Oh, okay. C major. And you can hear it. It's kind of a sort of Philip.
Robert Krulwich
Glassy kind of thing.
Jad Abumrad
Like she was of kind. It was sort of. The original Philip Glassy kind of thing in C was written by a guy named Terry Reilly at a time when music, classical music, had turned very, very dark. You know, people were writing all kinds of, like, really dissonant stuff. And it was interesting for a while, but then it became a little dull.
Robert Krulwich
Little dull.
Jad Abumrad
Little hurtful, actually. People were losing Interest. But then along comes our man Terry Riley, who writes this piece in C. Very joyous. And it was like a watershed moment.
Robert Krulwich
I missed, I confess I missed that moment in the cultural history of America. It just went right by me.
Jad Abumrad
Well, lucky for you, you've got me. No, no, seriously, like in C inspired Philip Glass and Steve Reichstag and like scores and scores of movie music and you know, that whole explosion of minimalism, you could even say it like inspired techno and all kinds of other stuff. So in a way it all comes back to this piece which no one has ever heard before, called nc.
Robert Krulwich
Oh.
Jad Abumrad
So here's what I want to do right now. I want to tell you about a project that I was involved in that united my Radiolab self with my non Radiolab self and at the same time brought in Mina the counting two year old.
Robert Krulwich
Okay.
Jad Abumrad
There's an ensemble called the Grand Valley State New Music Ensemble who decided they were going to re record in C. And also they asked 18 people, or maybe it's 16. I can't. I always forget a whole bunch of people to remix the song. And I was one of the people they asked.
Robert Krulwich
Really? When did this happen? I didn't even know that this happened.
Jad Abumrad
This happened actually right when Emile was born. So I was on leave.
Robert Krulwich
So we are about to hear the Abumrad remix of Insee, the world famous piece that saved America's classical music from turning sour and Ookie.
Jad Abumrad
That might be overstating its influence a bit. But yeah, I do want to play you that remix. But before, before that, I want to play you two other of the 18 remixes, which I think are really good.
Robert Krulwich
Okay.
Jad Abumrad
Starting with this one. I really like this remix. It comes from a guy named Michael Lowenstern.
Michael Lowenstern
My name is Michael Lowenstern.
Robert Krulwich
Mike Lowenstein.
Michael Lowenstern
I'm a dad, a composer and.
Jad Abumrad
And a bass clarinetist.
Michael Lowenstern
And a bass clarinetist.
Jad Abumrad
Hey, so speaking of bass clarinet, is that what that sound was?
Michael Lowenstern
Oh, no, that's, that's a synth.
Jad Abumrad
Whatever it is, I love that sound.
Michael Lowenstern
You know, the whole thing about NC is that it's, it's really, it's about randomness.
Jad Abumrad
Yeah. Because the performers are supposed to improvise.
Michael Lowenstern
And the whole thing about these remixes is that it's about structure.
Jad Abumrad
Yeah.
Michael Lowenstern
And so the things that are most usually structured about any mix, any remix, especially a dance mix, is going to be the drums.
Jad Abumrad
Drums do sound pretty structured.
Michael Lowenstern
Well, that was the one thing that I threw to a random generator.
Jad Abumrad
What do you mean? You mean depth?
Michael Lowenstern
It gets cut up. The drums never Sound the same twice.
Jad Abumrad
Oh, so you use the computer to, like, algorithmically randomize the drums.
Michael Lowenstern
All of the drums are chopped up, and then it'll. It'll start shuffling.
Jad Abumrad
Sam. So anyhow, it goes on. That's Michael's version. So I'm gonna play for you one more from someone that we've spoken with on the program before. Zoe Keating. Remember Zoe?
Robert Krulwich
Do I remember Zoe?
Jad Abumrad
Of course. Zoe. The cello goddess.
Robert Krulwich
The cello goddess, beloved by so many of our people who write into us.
Jad Abumrad
And that's not. You're not exaggerating.
Robert Krulwich
That's the tip of an iceberg. Yeah. Yeah.
Jad Abumrad
So Zoe had a very different take. Here's hers.
Zoe Keating
When I got the call to do it, I was sort of like, both intrigued and scared.
Jad Abumrad
Yeah.
Zoe Keating
Because In C is such a well known piece.
Jad Abumrad
Yeah. Now, you called your remix Zinc. Oh, what does that mean, Zoe?
Zoe Keating
In C?
Jad Abumrad
Is that what that means?
Zoe Keating
That's what it is. Because I never play in C, you know, it's a key that I always avoid.
Jad Abumrad
Why is it hard to play on the cello?
Zoe Keating
It's the easiest to play on the cello. Oh, it's really easy to play on cello. And it's kind of. I think of C and C major as being sort of childlike.
Robert Krulwich
Key.
Jad Abumrad
Yeah.
Zoe Keating
When I think of, like, the key of C, I think of this sort of childlike optimism. You know where you. Like. I'm looking out the window right now, and the sky is that beautiful California blue. And that is a C major sky. I wanted to make it feel like it was washing over me. Like it was sort of a rushing waterfall. And one thing is that I really wanted it to sort of fall over the edge of the waterfall because I wanted to really have that feeling of like. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Here we come. And now we're gonna fall off the waterfall.
Molly Webster
Sa.
Jad Abumrad
So that's Zoe's. Isn't that nice?
Robert Krulwich
That's really nice.
Jad Abumrad
I know. Kind of makes you feel warm.
Robert Krulwich
So are you gonna try to, like, improve on that? Because that would be dangerous.
Jad Abumrad
I don't know. I. I enter the. I. I put mine up against hers and Michael's with extreme caution. But here's mine. So let me set mine up.
Robert Krulwich
That's pretty brave of you.
Jad Abumrad
Okay, I know. Well, I'm going to talk for a bit so that people forget the glory of what they just heard. Okay, so. Okay, so here's what I was thinking. I was on paternity leave, and you and everybody else was doing the number show.
Radiolab Sponsor Announcer
Right.
Jad Abumrad
And I was hearing some things you guys were Doing from time to time. And Lulu played me the piece she was working on, which was that one about counting, which included the tape that we played at the very beginning. Yeah, can you do that? And it was funny because I had gotten this NC commission, and I had this little baby, and I was doing that thing, you know, that people do with babies, where you just start counting to them. It's like an instinct. 1, 2, 3. And so I heard that tape, and I was like, oh, that's what I'm doing. But since I had NC in my head, I was kind of counting to that In C ostinato.
Molly Webster
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
Jad Abumrad
1, 2, 3, 4. 1, 2, 3, four. So it was the two sort of the two thoughts fused in my head.
Robert Krulwich
I'm already feeling a little sorry for this baby.
Jad Abumrad
So the two thoughts fused in my head. So I thought, I'm gonna remix this piece as kind of a children's song.
Robert Krulwich
So this is the Dedicated to Emil version of In C by.
Jad Abumrad
By me. It's called Counting in C. It uses that tape of Mina counting, and my own baby makes an appearance.
Robert Krulwich
Is your son gonna be in this?
VRBO Advertiser
Yes.
Jad Abumrad
He's one of the first things you'll hear.
Robert Krulwich
Oh, you're shameless. You are a shameless father.
Jad Abumrad
It's true. It's true. So why don't we just play the whole damn thing?
Robert Krulwich
Let's play the whole damn thing.
Jad Abumrad
It. Up, Up.
Robert Krulwich
One.
Jad Abumrad
Up.
VRBO Advertiser
3, 4, 5.
Molly Webster
Ready?
Jad Abumrad
Do you remember how to count. It? Up, up.
VRBO Advertiser
Can you count all your pins?
Jad Abumrad
One. Sa. So that's my nc.
Robert Krulwich
Oh, wow. Look, here's the thing. Don't write and say how much you liked it and how he should do this all the time, because this would be very, very disconcerting for those of us who work here.
Jad Abumrad
What does that mean?
Robert Krulwich
I think that this was just a little bit too good, actually, and slightly worrisome, really. Don't write the man because I don't want him to think about other career options because I could hear nasal stuff, Brooklyn playground stuff. Mina, I heard the drawers of your desk. It got every little thing.
Jad Abumrad
It's true. I was kind of shameless. It's true. But okay, no more music for a while.
Robert Krulwich
No more music for a while.
Jad Abumrad
If you want more information on the record, check our website, Radiolab.org I also need to thank Bill Ryan, who's the head of the Grand Valley State New Music Ensemble, for making the whole record possible. Now, to those funders. And they are?
Robert Krulwich
Well, they're the National Science foundation, the.
Jad Abumrad
Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the Sloan Foundation. Yes, I'm Jad Abumrad.
Robert Krulwich
And I'm Robert Colwich.
Jad Abumrad
Thanks for listening.
Radiolab Sponsor Announcer
Radiolab is supported by the National Forest Foundation, a nonprofit transforming America's love of nature into action for our forests. Did you know that national forests provide clean drinking water to 1 in 3Americans? And when forests struggle, so do we. The National Forest foundation creates lasting impact by restoring forests and watersheds, strengthening wildfire resilience, and expanding recreation access for all. Last year, they planted 5.3 million trees and led over 300 projects to protect nature and communities nationwide. Learn more@nationalforests.org Radiolab did you know you.
VRBO Advertiser
Can opt out of winter with VRBO? Save up to $1,500 for booking a month long stay with thousands of sunny homes. Why subject yourself to the cold? Just filter your search by monthly stays and save up to $1,500. Book now@vrbo.com.
This episode of Radiolab, hosted by Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, dives into the avant-garde world of Terry Riley's In C—a 1964 minimalist composition that revolutionized modern classical music. The show explores how In C influenced generations of composers, investigates its process and improvisatory structure, and spotlights a contemporary “remix” project featuring contributions from the hosts and notable musicians. Woven through the episode are playful discussions, personal stories, and a demonstration of the merging of music, experimentation, and family life.
“In C” is a celebration of musical experimentation, heritage, and the joy of combining art with life’s everyday wonders. Through conversations and remixes, Radiolab brings minimalist music’s legacy to life and personalizes it for a new audience, demonstrating that curiosity and creativity are deeply intertwined—whether in avant-garde composition, home life, or the magic of counting to three.