
It’s the end of the year, and the entire Radiolab team is starting to take stock and come up for air. We're excited about how much ground we've covered - stories about college debaters and figure skaters, meat allergies and salmon-eating trees, deathwatch beetles mating and Kpop stars dating - we're excited for what 2017 holds, and grateful because you have made all these things possible with your support. But before 2016 comes to an end, we wanted to do something a little different. We wanted to swivel our attention back to you, our listeners, reconnect with some old friends to see how they are doing, and thank everyone for what they've shared with us. Support Radiolab by becoming a member today at Radiolab.org/donate.
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Minouche Zamorodi
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Terry Babcock Loomis
Wait, you're listening.
Robert Krulwich
Okay. All right. Okay.
Monet Bartel
All right.
Latif Nasser
You're listening to Radiolab Radio from wny.
Robert Krulwich
Hi, I'm Robert Kilwich.
Minouche Zamorodi
I am not Jan Abumeri.
Robert Krulwich
Well, you say who you are, that's the immodest thing to do.
Minouche Zamorodi
I'm Minouche Samaroti. I host another podcast at WNYC Studios. Note to self, you also are on.
Robert Krulwich
Our show Radiolab, you know, very, very frequently. Well, not very frequently, but frequently enough. Frequently enough, brilliantly enough.
Minouche Zamorodi
Thank you, sir.
Robert Krulwich
So there we are.
Minouche Zamorodi
Yes, and I am here pinch hitting for Jad for a little bit to spread the word that this is an important time for Radiolab. Robert?
Robert Krulwich
Well, it's the end of the year, the giving time.
Minouche Zamorodi
It is the end of the year.
Robert Krulwich
What we're about to do, I think will be kind of wonderful because we who make the show and you who listen to the show don't often have a chance to get together. So in the next bit of time, what we're gonna do is we're gonna pal up. We've invited some of the people who normally listen to come on the show, and people who normally make the show come and listen, and we're mixing it up a little bit. It's a strange menagerie of humans and we wanna just go to the zoo of us.
Tracy Hunt
So.
Robert Krulwich
So that is coming right up. But if you'd like to hit pause just for a second and make a contribution right away, like right now, you can enjoy the episode knowing that you've already done the thing that you were supposed to do that we're gonna be on our knees begging you to do. Well, you've already done it. You've already solved the problem.
Minouche Zamorodi
Yes. Do you want me to take over here?
Robert Krulwich
Right here?
Minouche Zamorodi
Okay, yeah.
Robert Krulwich
I'll slip in and then I'll think of something to say on the other side.
Minouche Zamorodi
Okay, very good. So what Robert is beating around the bush is that Radiolab relies on the support of listener contributions, listeners like you. Yes. Who make all the stor stories that we produce possible. So it's time that we extend a hand to you, our podcast listeners and invite you to make a financial contribution so that Radiolab can keep these episodes coming your way. It is super easy to do. We ask you to go to radiolab.org donatetogive or even easier if you live in the US open up your phone. It's probably what you're listening on anyway. Open up the messaging app. Type the word Radiolab to the number 69866. That'll get you started.
Robert Krulwich
But suppose you live in Montevideo, Uruguay, or in Zagreb, Yugoslavia, a country which no longer exists.
Minouche Zamorodi
Don't do that.
Robert Krulwich
Then you can't. What do you have to do then?
Minouche Zamorodi
Just go to Radiolab.org donate.
Robert Krulwich
That's what I always do whenever I'm in Central Europe, South Asia or South America. And it's really easy, so don't be intimidated by it. Now, as we promised, it is time for you to meet some people whom you hear on our show but have never really met. Arianne Wack produces a part of our show. She's never met them either. So this was her chance to find out about them. Our chance to find out about Ariane. Found out.
Arianne Wack
Hello, is this Terry? Ooh, did I lose ya? Did I lose ya?
Terry Babcock Loomis
Hey. Hi. I don't know if you heard that. Hi, how are you?
Robert Krulwich
I'm good.
Arianne Wack
How are you?
Terry Babcock Loomis
I was so touched to receive your email.
Arianne Wack
Well, I don't wanna.
Monet Bartel
Your email.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Really?
Monet Bartel
Surprise.
Arianne Wack
All right, so I decided to call up this woman that I have just been desperately curious about for years now, since I've worked here.
Terry Babcock Loomis
What's on your mind? What can I do for you?
Arianne Wack
The reason? Well, I've been wanting to reach out to you for a while because part of my job here is to listen to all of the spots that come in for our underwriting and I choose the reads and produce them and put them into the episodes they need to go in.
Robert Krulwich
Cool.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Thank you for what you do.
Arianne Wack
To back up for a second, we have our listeners submit underwriting reads via the app and we put them into the breaks of our shows. If you've listened to the show with any regularity, you've probably probably heard this and.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Hey, this is Terry Babcock Loomis.
Minouche Zamorodi
Support for NPR comes from NPR station.
Arianne Wack
Terry Babcock Loomish does every single one of them.
Terry Babcock Loomis
This is Terry Babcock Loomis. This is Terry Babcock Lumish. Terry Babcock Lish.
Minouche Zamorodi
This is Terry Bcomish.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Terry Babcock Loomis.
Arianne Wack
Terry Babcock loomis more than 300 times. And I, I know that if in a pinch, I need a spot quick, I know that there's going to be a read from Terry. Terry Babcock Loomisch Loomis.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Are you tired of hearing my voice at this point?
Arianne Wack
Yeah. No. That's why I wanted to call you guys, because there's three of you that leave. I mean, read almost every single piece of copy I put up. And so especially, you know, I think you've probably been doing it the longest out of any of them. So I remember, like, when you moved from Cold Spring, New York, from, like, Cold Spring.
Minouche Zamorodi
Aloha. This is Terry Babcock Loomisch in Honolulu.
Arianne Wack
Hawaii, down to Honolulu. And like, I know, like, when your husband is around.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Hi, this is Brian Babcock. And this is Terry.
Arianne Wack
Because occasionally, like, he'll pop in.
Latif Nasser
Yeah.
Arianne Wack
And so I just. I feel like I kind of know you.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Oh, my gosh, you're so sweet.
Arianne Wack
Well, I mean, it is all based on, like, evidence that I've, you know, gathered from your phone calls and the background noises and whatnot.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Oh, my God. Seriously, you're awesome. This is really fun. Okay, what's your hypothesis?
Arianne Wack
My hypothesis? Well, you lived in Cold Spring for a while, and I was like, she doesn't. She sounds too young to be like a. Like a snowbird. So I didn't think that you guys had moved for the weather. I was like, somebody must have gotten a job down there. And then you have grandkids. And I was surprised. I had heard them a couple times, or at least they sound like little kids to me.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Maybe they're not grandkids because technically I don't think we're even old enough to have grandkids. Okay.
Arianne Wack
Yeah. So I've got conflicting narratives here.
Terry Babcock Loomis
That's all pretty good. Okay, you want the real story?
Arianne Wack
Yeah, I would love the real story.
Terry Babcock Loomis
So my background's government. I was a White House economist in first Clinton administration. Oh, my God. There is no reason why I should have gotten mixed up with an army guy, fell madly in love. So he's active duty military, and so we move every two or three years with his army assignment, summer 2014, and he gets assignment to Hawaii, and that's where we live. So there's a story. That's the short version.
Robert Krulwich
That's great.
Arianne Wack
I love having the background, actually. That makes me so happy.
Latif Nasser
Yeah.
Arianne Wack
Have you ever heard yourself when, like, you've listened to Radiolab? Have you ever heard one of your reads?
Terry Babcock Loomis
So I haven't. You haven't?
Monet Bartel
No.
Terry Babcock Loomis
But on a regular basis, I'll get An email from a former student or a friend or whoever it might be saying that they heard me on Radiolab. And it's always so nice because I'll hear from someone that I feel so detached from or just far away from. But, no, I've never heard one.
Arianne Wack
Do you have a favorite episode?
Terry Babcock Loomis
I don't know, but I think one of the things that I love is that you take things that are very complex and you make ideas. Whether it's, you know, CRISPR Cas9 or infectious diseases or black holes or things I don't even know that I'm going to be interested in, you make them not just interesting, but accessible and exciting. And then I remember it, and then I want to talk about it.
Robert Krulwich
Yeah.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Yeah. So let me ask, do you have a favorite?
Arianne Wack
Well, I mean, there's frequently 30 different drafts of an episode, so it's hard to, like, hear the finished product as just a listener again and not being like, oh, I didn't depop that P there, or, you know, like, oh, the room tone there. I could have smoothed that out or something, you know, And I miss. I miss that a little bit.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Yeah, it's been thought of it that way. So, yeah, I hate to do it, but I really should get my. Totally fine at this point. Well.
Monet Bartel
Oh, God.
Terry Babcock Loomis
God.
Arianne Wack
I guess. I mean, I want to know, like, why you do it, like, why. Why you're so committed to, like, giving to us in this particular way.
Terry Babcock Loomis
So I feel like what you've asked.
Monet Bartel
Of us is so little.
Terry Babcock Loomis
And so whether it's public radio asking for paychecks or it's me reading some credits, it's something I can do. And frankly, it was fun.
Arianne Wack
Okay.
Terry Babcock Loomis
And it's interesting. And, you know, wherever we've lived, I've wanted to even strictly occasional pledge drive, you know, to be involved with public radio. I think, you know, it really is the soundtrack of my life. And I could be wrong, but I feel like for plenty of people there concerned that they can't give a big check that they shouldn't give. And I'm often very quick to challenge that assumption. You know, I think about for people who are busy or for people who can't write a big check, you know, even just a little tiny, what would be the equivalent of your coffee? I think people feel like that's not enough, but those coffees add up. And I don't think we should underestimate.
Monet Bartel
Our collective tower with our coffee.
Tracy Hunt
Yeah.
Terry Babcock Loomis
And so next time in New York, if I can take you for a cup of coffee, I would Be happy to, because I really am appreciative of all.
Arianne Wack
Yeah, no, that would be great. Thank you so much. This was. I really enjoyed this conversation.
Terry Babcock Loomis
So have I. It's been such a pleasure. And I have to admit, I was very surprised by your call. I didn't know if you were telling me, like, stand down, like retired parents.
Minouche Zamorodi
Really?
Terry Babcock Loomis
Thank you so much.
Arianne Wack
All right, thank you. Thanks so much, Terry.
Robert Krulwich
Bye.
Monet Bartel
Bye.
Tracy Hunt
Bye.
Robert Krulwich
Minouche. Here's the thing about Terry, is that she's one of a lot of folks who tune us in and then kind of join in. We have a very unusual audience.
Minouche Zamorodi
Yeah, you have an awesome audience. Radiolab listeners are the best, but in.
Robert Krulwich
Very particular ways, when you meet them, they don't come and say, yo, I really. Whatever that thing you do, they don't do that. They have, like, very specific sort of either compliments or arguments, but they're listeners, meaning they've listened.
Minouche Zamorodi
Robert, I think what you're saying is the listeners, you listeners, not only do you give your time, you give your brain.
Robert Krulwich
Yes, the brain, the brain.
Minouche Zamorodi
Let's also remember, you give contributions. It is what keeps Radiolab on the air. And in order for 2017 to knock it out of the park, like 2016 did, we need you to keep doing that, please.
Robert Krulwich
Yeah. So how would they. If you were just sitting here, just sitting there thinking about, like, me. Okay, maybe now, what would you do right now if you wanted to, you.
Minouche Zamorodi
Would go online to Radiolab.org, donate to, give and.
Robert Krulwich
Is Radiolab spelled in two words or one?
Minouche Zamorodi
No, it's just one.
Robert Krulwich
That's right.
Minouche Zamorodi
Or even easier, just text that one word, Radiolab, to the number 69866 to get started. That's if you're in the US you can do that. In any case, though, you can get it handled in a matter of seconds. And we thank you for it.
Robert Krulwich
Yeah, we really do. And now, an introduction to one of our listeners whom I recently met.
Mayank Mishra
The three things that I say I love about this country are, first of all, you know, drinking water coming out of your faucets. It's insane. You know, you're thirsty in the middle of a shower, you just open your mouth and you're done. It's incredible.
Robert Krulwich
So this is my unc, Mishra. He's a graduate student in ecology at Princeton University.
Mayank Mishra
Then there's bike lanes, which are fantastic.
Robert Krulwich
Bike lanes.
Mayank Mishra
Yeah. Because you should try riding a bike in Calcutta or Delhi. It'll definitely get you closer to God. That's right.
Robert Krulwich
Yeah.
Mayank Mishra
God does exist in India.
Robert Krulwich
Yeah. So Mayank started out as a civil rights lawyer in India, often defending people whom he thought had been jailed without cause. He left for the United States, in part because he had sued the man who suddenly became the Prime Minister of India. And he thought, well, maybe I should, you know, go somewhere else.
Mayank Mishra
And the third thing I love about this country was Internet. I mean, just really great Internet, where I could listen to things all the time. And after I heard Radiolab was when I first started listening to podcasts.
Robert Krulwich
I first met my uncle after giving a lecture up at Princeton University. He came up afterwards and he said, oh, I want to tell you about the first time I heard Radiolab. It's okay. He was on a road trip with some of his friends, fellow students.
Mayank Mishra
So I was supposed to be navigating. I was just graduating from my Masters in Public Administration from Princeton. We were done with school, but we were still getting to know each other because, you know, now that we were done with it, we knew each other, but we didn't quite know where everyone came from. And we were going to a beach house. The entire class was going there to sort of say farewell and, you know, spend a few days together. And I was supposed to be navigating, and I got everything wrong. And we went miles away, and I started talking about how I had to deal with the loss of my father and then my grandfather, both my closest friends. And we were also having to deal with the fact that we were going to leave this place behind and leave this community behind that we had formed over the past two years. The first one I had in the U.S. someone said, you know, there's this incredibly great episode by Radiolab on life after life. I think it was.
Robert Krulwich
That was our afterlife episode. It was a series of meditations on death. On this hour, we ask that question, am I dead? What happens at the very moment when you slip from life to the other side and what happens after?
Mayank Mishra
And we started playing it, and it was just stunned silence through the entire thing. And one of the. One of the things that's always stuck with me is that I remember you were talking about a group, and it said that what happens when the group disperses and people go their separate ways? Does the group die or do they carry it with them?
Robert Krulwich
This was a short fiction piece by the neurologist David Eagleman, which was read on our show by the actor Jeffrey Tambor.
Mayank Mishra
When soldiers part ways at war's end, the breakup of the platoon triggers the same emotion as the. Well, the death of a person. Participants amble away feeling that they were just part of something larger than themselves, something they intuit had a life, even though they can't quite put a finger on it. In this way, death is not only for humans, but for everything that existed. And it turns out that anything that enjoys life enjoys an afterlife. And then there was something about when you pass away, what happens to the. To the things that make you up when you die? You are grieved by all the atoms of which you were composed. I mean, they hung together for years, whether in sheets of skin or communities of spleen. But with your death, they don't die. Instead, they. They part ways, moving off in their separate directions, mourning the loss of a special time they shared together. Actually haunted by the feeling that they were once playing parts in something larger than themselves, something that had its own life, something, well, they can hardly put a finger on. And I think. I don't know. I had not thought about things that way. I had never thought about where life begins and where it ends.
Robert Krulwich
And my uncle mentioned another Eagleman piece that caught his ear from the same show.
Mayank Mishra
There was this one thing that you said, which was that one way of looking at death is when the last person speaks your name. That's when you're gone. There are three deaths now. The first is when the body ceases to function, of course, and the second is when the body is consigned or, you know, put in the grave. The third is that moment sometime in the future when your name is spoken for the last time. Or with my father and my grandfather, you know, the day we forget them, the day, you know, we stop passing on their stories and no one remembers them, that's when they're gone. That's when they're actually gone.
Robert Krulwich
So you're listening to this and the other three people listening, and there's this kind of deep quiet in the car.
Mayank Mishra
Yeah.
Robert Krulwich
And then what happened?
Mayank Mishra
So that happened. And then that was my introduction to listening to podcasts. And then I started listening to Radiolab more.
Robert Krulwich
Did you have a lot of time in your head? What was going on after school? What happened to you?
Mayank Mishra
So what happened was, even in school, I had been a lawyer, and I had reached this point where I thought, you know, I was done with human beings, I was done with human rights, I was done with all of that stuff because I felt like we were just too far beyond saving. And I feel like clearly this is not where I should be, because there's a bigger world that I clearly have some affinity to.
Robert Krulwich
But what did you decide to do? Like, what was the New.
Mayank Mishra
I wanted to go back to school and I wanted to study ecology, and I attended a class in ecology, and it completely blew my mind. And I decided that, you know, clearly I'm not on the right path, and maybe this is the path I should be on. I remember we were living in Brooklyn, right across from the Botanic Gardens, and even through the winter, I'd go there and I'd be listening to Radiolabs, and I. You know, every time I think of Radiolab, I think of smiles and tears sort of streaming down my face because there's always so much emotion that's sort of packed into it. And I'd be sitting there in the cold, in the snow, in the Botanic Gardens, no one else around, with a small notebook, listening to Radiolab, and every time something would come into my head, I'd jot it down.
Robert Krulwich
So sitting there in the Botanic Gardens, listening to us, like, what did that do for you?
Mayank Mishra
So, opened me up and held me together, did both things right. Opened me up to this new world of ideas and thoughts and a community of people who also have similar thoughts, who also want to find out more about what's going on, and also held me together because I was sort of by myself. I'm very, very fortunate to have my wife with me, and she was. I mean, she's been a huge pillar of support, but we have both sort of stepped out of our comfort zones and have thought about all of these things to some extent because of Radiolab. You know, every time I hear the opening credits of Radiolab, it feels like I've just stepped back home from the cold or something. It's just, you know, shake off the snow from your jacket and settle in.
Robert Krulwich
Do you feel like you've sort of solved something?
Mayank Mishra
I hope not, I hope not. But I certainly feel very happy about where I am.
Robert Krulwich
It's interesting because if you listen to the show, we do. We never solve anything.
Mayank Mishra
That's right. Yeah, we never do. So, you know what? This was something I've been thinking about a lot recently, and I was speaking to a very close friend about this as well, and I was thinking about what is the role of scientists. And I found that more recently that there. There have been things that make me wonder what the scientific community is looking out for. Sometimes I think sometimes we're sort of caught up in our credibility and the fact that we must maintain this credibility and we shouldn't break rank. But no one becomes a scientist because they read a really credible scientific paper. They read. They become scientists because they're inspired by this world around them, and they're just really curious about what's going on. And you inspired me to. To be more curious. Right. To recognize that we don't have answers. And sometimes just looking for questions is really enjoyable. It's a lot of fun.
Robert Krulwich
Right.
Mayank Mishra
And to do it together, to. To be looking for things together, to go on this treasure hunt around life together. That's home.
Minouche Zamorodi
Oh, Robert. I think I might be in love with my unc.
Robert Krulwich
Yeah, well, I already am, so I beat you there. When we shook hands, I remember holding onto his hand for an extra beat. Because when you do this for a living, you don't expect to do anything much more than tell a story. But if you can. If you can help somebody get out of a hole or climb a mountain or change, you know, change a life, then, like, that's cherry on top. Super duper cherry on top. And that happens, oddly, not unoften on this show. So that's really cool. And I just.
Minouche Zamorodi
Should I just say, like, if you listeners, if Radiolab has touched your life at some point in this past year, it doesn't mean that you had to have a career makeover like my own. Maybe it was just like it made smile or it made you think about something a little bit differently. We ask you to remember you're part of a community, and this community is held together with listener contributions. It really is what keeps Radiolab going.
Robert Krulwich
So let's suppose you were in the mood to give Radiolab something. How would you go about that?
Minouche Zamorodi
It's quite easy, Robert.
Robert Krulwich
Okay, let me just take me through it slowly and step by step.
Minouche Zamorodi
Well, these are podcast listeners, so they kind of get this whole digital.
Robert Krulwich
Take me through it fast.
Minouche Zamorodi
So Radiolab.org donate the place to go. Or if you're listening on your phone, it's really easy opening up your messaging app that you've got there.
Robert Krulwich
Yeah, sure. Got one of those. Mess app, I call it.
Minouche Zamorodi
Oh, that's very good. I like to contract text the word Radiolab spelled fully out to the number 69866. That's 69866.
Robert Krulwich
Now what?
Minouche Zamorodi
Oh, now. Oh, yeah. We have another story to tell.
Robert Krulwich
We do, we do. And this next one comes from our producer, Annie McKeown, who was. Who wanted to meet somebody who's. Well, we all wanted to meet her. So here we go.
Minouche Zamorodi
Okay, so a few months back, we did a story called Alpha Gal.
Robert Krulwich
Okay, is your mic on?
Terry Babcock Loomis
Yeah, I'm getting. This is making me nervous.
Minouche Zamorodi
And the star of that show was a woman named Amy Pearl, maybe I.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Should get my EpiPen.
Latif Nasser
Are you allergic to radio greatness?
Terry Babcock Loomis
Not that I know of. I haven't been really exposed to it yet.
Robert Krulwich
I'm Robert Krulwich. This.
Minouche Zamorodi
The story was about Amy Pearl's allergy to red meat and how she got that allergy to red meat. So I'm not going to tell you any more. You should go listen to the story. Go listen right now. But the reaction we got from the audience on Twitter and in comments on our website was just insane. Usually we get kind of like, you know, the odd comment here or there. Love the show, hated the show, where's the science?
Tracy Hunt
Stuff like that.
Minouche Zamorodi
But this time, it was just like this huge outpouring of deep, deep love for Amy Pearl. Like, you know, get that girl her own show. She's incredible. She changed my life. Amy Pearl for President was one of the tweets, and I felt the same love for her that everyone else did. And my job at the show is, you know, a lot of cutting tape and sound design and music and stuff like that. So I never actually, like, met her before, but I met her through her voice. And I also thought, wow, she's very wise in ways that I feel like I really need in my life right now. And so this is one way to get more, you know, bring more Amy Pearl back into our lives again, which feels good.
Monet Bartel
Hello.
Tracy Hunt
Hi.
Minouche Zamorodi
Also, it was sort of an opportunity for me to ask a question. I wanted to kind of, like, I recently moved here from a really small town in Canada, and I'm trying to figure out how to, like, be a human being in this city and just, like, you know, not let it.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Well, I mean, it's like. I mean, do you ever hear. There's a famous saying. Did you ever hear it? If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere.
Tracy Hunt
That rings a bell for sure.
Terry Babcock Loomis
It's up to you. You New York? No, but it's really true. Everything is so hard in the city. I mean, forget it. It's like, I'm like, oh, I have to renew my driver's license. You have to renew your driver's license. You're in big trouble. Oh, my God. Everybody, Amy has to renew your driver's license. Take the week off. It's not going to work out for you, Amy. I don't know. Let's start a support group. It's just like, everything is hard and, like, all you have to do is go for a minute. Like, where? My mom lives in Connecticut, and I go up there and she's like, oh, I'm going to return something at Costco. I'm like, you kidding me? I'm only up here for two days. We don't have time for this. And she's like, oh, it'll be easy. You, like, drive up, drive into a parking spot, get out of the car, walk. One second.
Robert Krulwich
Hello.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Nice to meet you. Let me help you. You're all set. Thanks so much.
Robert Krulwich
Bye.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Get back in the car, drive into your driveway, park in the garage. I don't know why the city's so hard. It's so hard. What do you do?
Minouche Zamorodi
Like, what?
Terry Babcock Loomis
What do I do? I mean, well, for sure, a good thing about being in the city is if, you know, if you want to do good, you. You can. Like, I'm sure between now and the time you get home tonight, you can, like, pick up someone's pen, like, remind, like, tell somebody they have. They have, like, toilet paper on their shoe, help someone who seems lost, or, like, smile at someone who seems down, or be like, oh, my God, I love that book. It's like you have every opportunity to make someone else's day better, which you could just be like, I'm a superhero. If something happens, I'm going to rush over there. And something might happen any second because I'm in the city. It's like, you know, and it's like, when you're walking around the city, I always find treasures. Like, if you look in the gutter, you just, like, pick up the foot of a Barbie, and it just seems, like, so great and, like, I don't know.
Minouche Zamorodi
Can you tell me what's your. What's, like, the last time you really saw the city as beautiful?
Terry Babcock Loomis
Oh, my God. I think the last time I saw the city as beautiful was probably last night. It was very dark, and I got my dog and we went out, like, on the block that I walk on all the time. But somebody had swept all the leaves, and there was a pile of oak leaves on the side, and the light from the house flicked on, and every oak leaf was, like, silhouetted. And they're such a pretty shape. And I was like, oh, my God. These are just being thrown out by the tree. These are not even, like, of use. And then I was like, wow, every single year it grows a brand new leaf and then drops it off and then grows another one, drops it off and grows another one, drops it off. And it must live for, like, 200 years. And, like, imagine how many leaves the tree drops off. And, like, where does it all go? And, like, what is all that energy coming from and why are they doing it? And it smells good and it's pretty. I mean, it's probably covered in dog piss. But I didn't get that close and I thought it was really beautiful. And it was like. It was a good moment.
Minouche Zamorodi
Oh, Amy Pearl, she's the best.
Robert Krulwich
You know, like she was. So when you hear Amy Pearl talk about anything.
Minouche Zamorodi
Dog pee.
Robert Krulwich
Dog pee is fine, because Amy Pearl is what is what you would call a nst.
Minouche Zamorodi
What's that?
Robert Krulwich
A natural storyteller. Oh, yes, yes. There's no way she can't make everything interesting. And she. So when this tape came in, when we heard it, we went, oh, my God, get her on the air and don't take her off. We could just live on Amy Pearl.
Minouche Zamorodi
Now listen, though, Robert. There's a reason why we were able to get Amy Pearl on the show.
Robert Krulwich
It's because of the pearls that are our listeners who feel precious but don't always do the thing that precious things have to do in order to keep other precious things alive and well.
Minouche Zamorodi
I don't know what that means, but I think it was an attempt to say in a poetic way that people who love the podcast and give just a few dollars make this work possible.
Robert Krulwich
That was exactly what I meant.
Minouche Zamorodi
Was that it? Okay, and I wanna add something. We actually have some really great Radiolab swag.
Robert Krulwich
Oh, we do?
Minouche Zamorodi
Yeah. There's a. Don't pretend you're not wearing the hoodie all the time.
Robert Krulwich
Well, it's a very warm hoodie.
Minouche Zamorodi
And if that's not your bag, there's a bag, actually. There's a knit winter cap, there's a T shirt, there's lots of swag. And you know what it is? I feel like listeners when you wear the Radiolab swag, I see you on the street and I'm sure of it. When we look at each other, we give a little wink. But you can't get the swag without making just a little donation. And we asked, how do you do that, though? Oh, funny you ask, Robert. Let me tell you. Radiolab.org Donate or even easier, if you're in the US, text the word Radiolab to the number if you're on your phone, 69866 to get started.
Robert Krulwich
Next up, a story about a boy, his mom, football, and Latif Nasser. Latif is our producer. He. He missed out when we broadcast this, but he wanted to get into the game, as it were. And here's what happened next.
Latif Nasser
Yeah, and I actually. Now our football episode, American Football. It was actually the first episode I was on staff for. I fact checked it and it had all kinds of things. It had a story about the history of football and the forward pass and the Carlisle Indian team. But it also had kind of, what is the big question now? What's the future of the game? And that question was perfectly encapsulated by this interview with this woman.
Monet Bartel
I'm Monet Bartelle.
Terry Babcock Loomis
You could add something like if you want.
Monet Bartel
I'm Monet Bartel. I'm a Libra. I enjoy long walks on the beach. I'm just joking.
Latif Nasser
So this story came to us from our senior editor, Soren Wheeler, who you just heard back there. And basically the story goes like this. Monet Bartel is from a family that lives and breathes and bleeds football. Her dad, Mel Farr, the superstar, was a star running back for the Detroit Lions. He was a two time Pro Bowler. Both her brothers were professional football players. And so for Monet, when she had her first son, Parker, as soon as.
Monet Bartel
The doctor saw his third thumb.
Robert Krulwich
Like.
Monet Bartel
Yes, we're going to the NFL, baby.
Robert Krulwich
Yes.
Monet Bartel
And then Parker's 10 pounds and one ounce. He's the biggest that he walked out the womb.
Latif Nasser
I'm still going with third thumb.
Minouche Zamorodi
Third thumb.
Latif Nasser
And so Monet, she signed Parker up to play in a league when he was 4 years old.
Monet Bartel
And they immediately, they named him the Tank.
Latif Nasser
The moment he gets on the field, he is just plowing through kids, getting touchdown after touchdown. But this is where things get complicated because while Parker is on the field just dominating, Monet has a relative who played football for a very long time and was experiencing symptoms of cte. Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy, which is what comes from like concussion.
Monet Bartel
Concussion after concussion.
Latif Nasser
Symptoms include memory loss, sometimes bouts of anger.
Monet Bartel
In this case it was depression, it was suicidal thoughts, it was getting phone calls like, hey, I need you to come get him because he's having dangerous thoughts.
Mayank Mishra
Yeah.
Latif Nasser
And Monet told us that eventually her father started experiencing symptoms of CTE as well. And that put Monet in a very difficult position because on the one hand.
Tracy Hunt
She believed that children should not play football.
Latif Nasser
But then at the exact same time.
Monet Bartel
She believed children should play football, that it's a great sport. And as for Parker, when I asked.
Tracy Hunt
Parker how did he like the season.
Monet Bartel
His favorite things were the trophy and the pizza party at the end. He had no desire. You want to play again next season? No.
Latif Nasser
Now, our favorite moment of this whole story and a lot of listeners to, was when.
Monet Bartel
Come sit with me. I Need to sit on your lap.
Latif Nasser
Parker comes home from school and sits down with Soren and Monet. And Soren asks, look, if you don't like football anymore, do you like other sports.
Mayank Mishra
Or. I don't really care about that either.
Terry Babcock Loomis
I really want to do synchronized swimming.
Latif Nasser
Really?
Robert Krulwich
Is that true?
Monet Bartel
Where did you come from?
Tracy Hunt
Is that true? Mm.
Robert Krulwich
Why?
Terry Babcock Loomis
Mostly because when I saw something about it, it looked kind of cool. Like people were doing a lot of cool swimming tricks. So I kind of thought it was something for me.
Latif Nasser
You playing me?
Terry Babcock Loomis
True.
Tracy Hunt
I wanna do synchronized swimming.
Latif Nasser
You're like, this guy's gonna come talk to me about football, and I'm gonna tell him that I wanna do synchronized swimming.
Tracy Hunt
Right?
Latif Nasser
No. You like it?
Terry Babcock Loomis
Yeah, it sounds kinda good.
Latif Nasser
He likes to swim, and so. Hello.
Monet Bartel
Hello.
Latif Nasser
Hey, Monet.
Robert Krulwich
How you doing? Hey.
Monet Bartel
I'm good, Lateef. How are you?
Latif Nasser
We called Monet because every time now that I see football in the headlines, I think of her, and I wanted to see how she was doing.
Monet Bartel
All right.
Latif Nasser
Also, like, that tiny interview with your son. Just like, I think about it all the time. He's kind of my hero.
Monet Bartel
It has grown legs, I swear. Because of that interview, I was contacted about a month ago from espn.
Latif Nasser
Really?
Monet Bartel
They reached out to me, and they came out here and spent three days interviewing Parker, following him around. Oh, you can't tell Parker anything now. He thinks he's hot. S H I t. He has now said in the interview with espn. And, you know, I know they were waiting for him to say he was going to be a synchronized swimmer. Now he switched it up.
Latif Nasser
Oh, he switched it up.
Monet Bartel
Now he wants to play dodgeball.
Latif Nasser
Hey, good sport. Although there's a lot of. There's a lot of, like, unlike synchronized swimming, dodgeball is kind of a contact sport.
Monet Bartel
Yeah, he's not going to.
Terry Babcock Loomis
He.
Monet Bartel
I don't even think he plays dodgeball in gym. I just think this kid lived to embarrass the crap out of me. But the series is about the love of football. And they said, aside from Parker's lack thereof, with us having such a presence in NFL, in my immediate family, it was the thing of that oxymoron, the fact that I love football so much and that football is still extremely dangerous. You know, my father passed away last year.
Robert Krulwich
Oh, my God.
Latif Nasser
I'm so sorry.
Monet Bartel
My dad passed away in August of last year, which threw us all for a loop. My dad was, like, the healthiest person that we know, and he dropped dead. I talked to him that morning. It was a Monday, and by 7pm that evening, he just. He just. He just kind of slipped away. And we got his results back. You know, we did send his brain and spinal cord, and my dad was at stage three of four with cte.
Latif Nasser
Oh, wow. And that's the kind of thing you can only find out after someone's dead, right?
Monet Bartel
Exactly.
Latif Nasser
And was that. Were you sort of expecting that?
Monet Bartel
Not at all.
Latif Nasser
Oh, really?
Monet Bartel
We knew my father suffered from cte. And I jokingly would say my having a conversation with my dad towards the end of his life would be like 50 first dates. Because my dad will tell.
Terry Babcock Loomis
He'll.
Monet Bartel
He'll talk to you like, hey, you remember such and such and such. And I'm like, yeah, Dad, I remember. Hey, you remember such and such and such. I'm like, bruh, we just had this conversation. But you don't really, you know, you don't think about it. And then getting the results back from my father, I'm like, God, you know? Stage four CTE is Mike Webster.
Latif Nasser
Just to jump in here. Mike Webster was a former professional player who was suffering from amnesia, dementia, depression. He died at the age of 50.
Monet Bartel
Stage 4 CTE. It's Junior Seau.
Latif Nasser
Junior Seau was another former professional player. Shot himself in the chest at 43 years old.
Monet Bartel
Stage four is something that these families are suffering because they're watching their loved ones who can't take it anymore. So they think that taking their lives is the easiest way to go. That's the only way to calm whatever it is that's going on in their mind because they can't even explain what's going on. I'm thankful I didn't have to do that. I cried when I watched Junior say I was mom in the press conference. I cried when I watched that because I can't imagine, as a mother, as a sister, as a wife, as a daughter, I can't imagine watching my dad or my brothers or my uncles or my cousin go through life like that, because both of my brothers are exhibiting signs now. That's all I can really think about is now, what about them?
Latif Nasser
Yeah, so is there. What can you do? What can they do?
Monet Bartel
That's the crazy thing. You can't prepare for it. You can't stop it. There's absolutely nothing you can do. And still with that at football every Friday night, because my nephew plays. He just got bumped up to varsity still, you know, I'm happy now that I can laugh and I can smile because I was completely. I turned into, like a vampire. When you just out of nowhere, when you're just, okay, talk to you later. And then there never is a later. Yeah, that's a tough one.
Latif Nasser
Did your dad, before he died, how did your dad feel about football? How did he feel about cte? How did he feel about all of this stuff?
Monet Bartel
If you asked my father, he would tell you I would not have changed a thing. If you look at when my dad was growing up, you know, my dad was in an era where it was separate but not equal. He didn't have indoor plumbing. He had to drink from the colored only water fountain. My dad will tell you, he said, man, I ain't never had to drink cold water. So I got to la. He didn't even know that. Feel like, what is this going down my throat?
Terry Babcock Loomis
So cool.
Monet Bartel
Like, you know, so being. Being smart and black wasn't enough. If he would have been black and didn't play football, even as smart as my father was, where would that have gotten him? You know, wouldn't have gotten him to. To dinners at the White House. Would it have gotten him the private jet? Would it have gotten him, you know, the house and us, these private school educations and all that? Would being a smart black guy in the early forties. In the forties, Would that have. What would that have done?
Latif Nasser
Yeah.
Monet Bartel
He was able to build a life playing for the Detroit Lions, who's owned by the Ford family, and then being able to go and intern at Ford, you know, in the off season, and then opening up a Ford dealership, and then from there branching out to what, 14 new car franchises. But he left with all of us to be able to carry on that legacy so it won't be in vain. We have started a foundation. We're building on it little by little, just trying to figure out where and what avenues we want to go in. We know education is huge, and, you know, I would just want to bring awareness, especially to mothers who put their young children in football, as I did.
Mayank Mishra
Yeah.
Monet Bartel
Just to be aware of what the dangers are. Are you willing to sign up for that? So now I'm going to. I'm really thinking of tricking Parker into becoming a kicker. He can do a kicker or a punter. That's what I'm going to trick him. But however, he is his middle school mascot.
Latif Nasser
Oh, really? I was the mascot of my high school. What is he?
Monet Bartel
Oh, you're kidding.
Latif Nasser
Yeah, I was. I was. Griffey the Griffin.
Monet Bartel
Yeah. Parker's the Alligator. I forgot the alligator's name. Golly. But he's the alligator.
Latif Nasser
How does he like being the Alligator.
Monet Bartel
He loves it.
Latif Nasser
And he has, like, a costume that he wears.
Monet Bartel
He wears an entire furry head and everything. Alligators don't have to turn into some kid. I make. Who is this kid?
Terry Babcock Loomis
He.
Monet Bartel
He. He starts dabbing and, like, he's this whole other kid. And so my husband. The first thing my husband says is, he's like, the mascots, they still get a ring, right? So now I'm like, we're going to keep you in mascotism, whatever it's called, because there are scholarships, and a lot.
Latif Nasser
Of you think there are mascot scholarships.
Monet Bartel
There are mascot scholarships.
Latif Nasser
No.
Monet Bartel
Yes. I know. I'm thinking way ahead of time. He's only in the fifth grade, so.
Latif Nasser
Is he, like, he developing, like, dance moves or, like, are there signature masters.
Monet Bartel
Like, he gets to. On Fridays, he greets the kids in the morning. He's got to get there early, you know, put on his costume, and he's out there in the carpool lane greeting kids as they come to school. He does the special events at the school. Like, he did the fall festival and the trunk or treat. And one of his teachers won teacher of the year award. So we got to go to the teacher of the year awards ceremony. As a mascot, like, he's just living it up.
Latif Nasser
I hope he wins all the mascot scholarships and makes it pro. You know, is it. It's probably cutthroat to go pro for mascots.
Monet Bartel
Yeah.
Terry Babcock Loomis
I don't know how that goes.
Latif Nasser
I don't even know how that goes. I have no idea.
Monet Bartel
We'll have to see when we get there. And how much do they get paid? You know, all these other. But Parker also wants to be an engineer.
Latif Nasser
Okay.
Monet Bartel
So I'm sure he wants to be.
Latif Nasser
He could do both.
Mayank Mishra
He could do both.
Monet Bartel
Absolutely.
Latif Nasser
Thinking about what you said about your dad, I hope for Parker that he will be able to get that engineering, you know, that being smart will be enough. Or if he wants to be a mascot, he can get all the scholarships, go to whatever school he wants. He does not have to put his body in harm's way if he doesn't want to.
Monet Bartel
Right. He doesn't have to. My oldest nephew, Trey, he, until recently had the title as the smartest kid in the family. He played football, but he made a plan. Hey, I don't want to go. Probably I'm gonna play in college, but I'm gonna go to a college that's going to give me a head start. So he went to Brown.
Latif Nasser
Wow.
Monet Bartel
He played at Brown, won a ring, did well, and now he's off Doing his brown thing in San Francisco, making great money as a young black guy because he was smart, not because of football. So would I love to see my son in a football jersey? Sure. But am I thrilled to see him in the alligator outfit? Absolutely.
Robert Krulwich
So we can't offer you listeners a mascot scholarship that is really beyond our reach. And then you'd have to choose your animal and we'd have to make the uniform. So we can't. It's a hard. It's fun, but it's a hard world. So we're going to streamline when, when we think about you instead of thinking about animals or griffins, as in Latif's case, we're going to just think of you as generous. And now, Minouche.
Minouche Zamorodi
Yes.
Robert Krulwich
If I wanted to be generous, what would I choose to do?
Minouche Zamorodi
You would go to Radiolab.org donate or even easier, you could text the word radiolab to the number 69866 to get a little form pops up, Robert, and you can donate in a matter of seconds. And then you can go back to thinking how awesome Radiolab's first spinoff was too. More perfect. More of that's gonna be coming up in 2017.
Robert Krulwich
I'm glad you mentioned that because a lot of the people who've been listening to us this past year noticed or joined a whole lot of people that we never heard from before became listeners to something we call More Perfect. It's a show about the Supreme Court of the United States. We thought of because we thought the Supreme Court was going to be interesting. And now, of course with 2017, yeah, we were right in spades. Because what's going to happen next year is got to be the Supreme Court will be near the center of a lot of conversations from a lot of people in 2017. So this more Perfect show is coming back in the spring of 2017, more episodes. And so people who want to hear it again, it's coming.
Minouche Zamorodi
But listen, here's the thing. Listener support is a critical component of More Perfect. It's a critical component of Radiolab. Any amount that you can give, just make a gift. Any amount, make a gift and show that you understand that this is the time to get a year end tax deductible break.
Robert Krulwich
Yeah. It's also the time for us to be talking about things that matter in a year where things will matter a lot. So yeah, we'd like you to join us both because you want to and just because we think you should. But right now, if you know what I mean. Forget my drift.
Minouche Zamorodi
Yes. Okay. And next, Robert, a story that captures that spirit of doing for others in a way that few can.
Tracy Hunt
Hi, my name is Tracy Hunt. I'm a reporter here at Radiolab, and I wanted to talk to someone who has a very different relationship with giving. Hello, Sarah. Hello, Sarah Gray. Oh, hi. There you are.
Terry Babcock Loomis
How are you?
Tracy Hunt
I'm good. I'm so good. Thank you. Sarah was the star of a show that we did a little while back called Gray's Donations.
Terry Babcock Loomis
I guess I'm like, a little bit nerd famous now.
Tracy Hunt
You're nerd famous?
Terry Babcock Loomis
Yeah.
Tracy Hunt
Wait, what does that mean?
Terry Babcock Loomis
Well, just nerds know who I am. You know, nerds who listen to radiolabs.
Tracy Hunt
Just a quick recap. Sarah told us a story about how she was pregnant with twins, Thomas and Callum, and something was wrong with Thomas. Doctors told her that he had anencephaly.
Minouche Zamorodi
And he said he could see that because one of the twins had a round skull and the other one had a bumpy skull.
Tracy Hunt
She ended up giving birth to both of them, and Thomas died six days later.
Minouche Zamorodi
And then right then, we called the Washington Regional Transplant Community. They sent a van over to our house, and they picked up his body and took him to D.C. children's National Medical Center.
Tracy Hunt
So the story was about how Sarah ended up going on this journey, trying to find out what happened to all the bits and pieces that were donated. So she talked about, for example, going to Duke University where they were using cord blood from her twins, and they were actually researching the disease that killed Thomas Anencephaly, and going to University of Pennsylvania and talking to a woman there who was studying this eye cancer that mostly affects children called retinoblastoma.
Latif Nasser
Eventually, Sarah and Ross visited Arupa's lab. She gave them a tour, and she showed them Thomas's retina.
Minouche Zamorodi
She still has samples of it in her freezer. Tiny little.
Latif Nasser
I don't know, tiny little vials, maybe a third the size of your pinky, filled with frozen liquid. Liquefied retina rna.
Minouche Zamorodi
It didn't look like much, but it was amazing to think of how many people were involved getting these samples there. Like, we had to approve it. We had to fill out this paperwork. Then the doctor had to come and remove the eyes, and the eyes had to be processed, and the eyes have to be shipped up there, and then they have to do whatever DNA process they do. And just how, I don't know, valuable, maybe even priceless, the sample is.
Tracy Hunt
Since the show came out, she released a new book called A Life Everlasting. And I Just really wanted to get on the phone with her and just talk about what the impact of the show has been and what's going on with her life. And one of the first things I found out was that she had a new baby.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Yes, we have a baby girl that she was just born in June.
Tracy Hunt
Oh, congratulations.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Thank you.
Tracy Hunt
And how's Callum doing?
Terry Babcock Loomis
He's doing great.
Tracy Hunt
This is Thomas brother.
Terry Babcock Loomis
He can now read a little bit. He's in first grade, and he's liking his sister.
Tracy Hunt
What have you told him about Thomas?
Terry Babcock Loomis
So he knows that he had a brother who was a twin who had a very, very, very bad boo boo on his head, and that's why he died. And we just explain, you know, sometimes kids die. That's just part of life. People, you know, they get diseases just like grownups, and it's okay to die.
Tracy Hunt
Does he ask you questions about Thomas?
Terry Babcock Loomis
We visit the grave maybe one or two times a year. And when he was younger, he asked, is Thomas scared under the stone? And he was probably maybe two or three. Questions like that were hard because I don't know how to explain the afterlife. I don't understand it myself. So I just told him, no, he's not scared. He thinks of Thomas as being in heaven. But he also asked me, you know, can you tell me what is it like in heaven? And I said, you know, I was really, like, sort of wringing my hands, like, oh, what do I say? I said, well, you know, some people think it's a place you go when you die. And some people think it's got clouds. And Calum just goes, no, look it up on your phone like you wanted a picture. Yeah, I just looked it up on my phone. I'm like, you know, this might be real, might be real, but this is what people think. Yeah. Can you show me a picture of God? You know, stuff like that. Sometimes it's hard, and then sometimes it's easy. It's kind of a mixture.
Tracy Hunt
Yeah, that's it. And also, since the show, Sarah has kept on donating. In fact, when her daughter Jocelyn was.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Born, I was inspired to donate the placenta. And the umbilical cord was turned into four different skin grafts that are going to be used in surgeries and for burn survivors. And also, the umbilical cord blood went.
Tracy Hunt
To research, but also she's been inspired to track down the people who have donated things to her.
Terry Babcock Loomis
As I was writing my book, I got this idea for tracking down the blood donors.
Tracy Hunt
When she was in the hospital with the twins, she actually had A traumatic delivery. She lost half of her blood, and she ended up getting a transfusion from 11 different blood donors.
Terry Babcock Loomis
So I emailed the blood bank, and I've met with them, and they have sent out a thank you letter from me to those 11 people.
Tracy Hunt
And when Sarah was in the hospital with Josh, Jocelyn actually got some donated breast milk.
Terry Babcock Loomis
And I ended up saving the bottle. I actually framed it. I keep it in my office because it just cheers me up to think of strangers donating things to each other.
Tracy Hunt
Yeah.
Terry Babcock Loomis
But I emailed the breast milk place, and I said, this is my donor ID for the breast milk. Can you tell me who are the people that donated this milk? Can I send them a thank you? And this is all kind of like. I know I sound like a donation weirdo, but, you know, it's like you receive and you give, and I just. I just think it's neat to make the connection and find out how that really works.
Tracy Hunt
Since we recorded the episode with you, have you heard anything new come out of the research using your son's tissues?
Terry Babcock Loomis
So there's a study that came out on tissue that could be my son's cornea.
Tracy Hunt
This lab in Boston, they've been studying corneal blindness. Because when your corneas are damaged, those.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Cells, once you lose them, they're never coming back.
Tracy Hunt
They don't regenerate, they're just dead.
Terry Babcock Loomis
That's what people have, corneal blindness.
Tracy Hunt
And so they're trying to figure out ways to regenerate them.
Terry Babcock Loomis
They took corneal cells and they wounded.
Tracy Hunt
Them and then added umbilical cord blood to those cells.
Terry Babcock Loomis
And they found some early stage steps to show that these corneal cells might be able to regenerate with stem cells, which I believe is kind of what they're getting at is a possible stem cell eye drops to get your vision back.
Tracy Hunt
Oh, wow.
Terry Babcock Loomis
So this is like way, way, way in the future, but it's the beginning of, you know, a what if situation. That. What if we could make eye drops like this?
Tracy Hunt
You check, like, the research often. How often do you do that?
Terry Babcock Loomis
Yeah, whenever I feel like it.
Tracy Hunt
Does it feel like you're kind of like, kind of continuing your relationship with Thomas in some way by checking on these things?
Terry Babcock Loomis
I don't know what you call it. I feel like Thomas, you know, he lived and he died, and he made this contribution, and I'm like a spectator kind of watching how his contribution is affecting other people. And I'm more like learning from him than having a relationship with him. But I know.
Tracy Hunt
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'M not sure that relationship is the right word. I was just trying to, like, it's almost. I don't know, I don't want to say, like, it's like he's still there. Nothing like that. I just, you know, like, he's. Like, he's still very much a part of your life in some way.
Monet Bartel
Yeah.
Terry Babcock Loomis
He's still relevant.
Monet Bartel
Yeah.
Terry Babcock Loomis
His life did not just affect my family. His life affected many other people.
Tracy Hunt
And in fact, Sarah told me that eight months after the show came out, she heard from this couple in California.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Husband and wife in California. They had twins. And unfortunately, one of them died unexpectedly. And I believe they asked, could they donate? And the group said, you cannot donate for transplant because your child is too small. And they said, well, we heard Radiolab. Can we donate to research? And they said, yes. And their daughter was able to donate eight different tissues to eight different studies.
Tracy Hunt
Oh, my goodness.
Monet Bartel
Yeah.
Terry Babcock Loomis
And in fact, the retinas went to the same lab and the same researcher that received my son's retinas.
Minouche Zamorodi
Oh, wow.
Monet Bartel
I know.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Oh, and the other weird thing is that their twins were born on the exact same day as my twins.
Robert Krulwich
That's.
Tracy Hunt
Oh, my goodness. That's so. That's so powerful. I don't. I'm really kind of speechless that that. That happened.
Terry Babcock Loomis
It did for me, at least, bring back. So, you know, when my child died, you feel like you have no control. But being able to donate gave me a sense of control back that, you know, at least this is one thing I can control.
Tracy Hunt
Right.
Terry Babcock Loomis
So I was glad that it had that impression. It had that effect on them.
Tracy Hunt
Sarah talking to me about trying to regain a sense of control in the face of unimaginable grief reminded me of something else she said at the end of Grey's donation.
Minouche Zamorodi
I used to think like the universe treated people the way it should, and now I don't really believe that, but I do believe that there are really amazing kind people in the world, and science and medicine has something to do with that. I started feeling that these were Thomas colleagues and his co workers and that he was a valuable partner in this important research that was being done. And I felt an even more fundamental shift. Almost like I had felt like I was a boat on an ocean that was, like, rocky and choppy with waves. And I had this feeling that I'm not the boat, I'm the ocean. Like, the decisions that I make are changing other people as opposed to just I'm a boat getting slapped with waves all the time. It has made me feel.
Arianne Wack
Powerful.
Robert Krulwich
Sarah Gray, speaking with Radiolab's Tracy Hunt.
Minouche Zamorodi
I think that really is a perfect way to wrap up some of these catch up stories that we've been doing during this episode of Radiolab, stories that really have impacted the Radiolab crew and.
Robert Krulwich
You, our listeners, and Minouche Zamorodi. I want to thank you for just popping in here. Jad will be back in January.
Minouche Zamorodi
It's been fun.
Robert Krulwich
Well, it's been wonderful. It's been more than fun. It's been like cozy.
Minouche Zamorodi
Yes. Some would say repetitive.
Terry Babcock Loomis
Not me, though.
Robert Krulwich
But not me. I would just say cozy. And I would like to thank all the people who've been, I assume, I kind of have to assume that you've done something during this time and if you haven't done that something, well, just say one more time what the doers must have done.
Minouche Zamorodi
Yes.
Robert Krulwich
Putting it in the past tense with respect.
Minouche Zamorodi
Well, and if you haven't, that's okay too. This is the time to do it. It's the season of giving and the moment is here. You've heard how people connect and give to each other on this episode in big and small ways. And we hope you're inspired and that you make a gift in whatever amount works for you. But we ask you to please do it now.
Robert Krulwich
It's very easy. It's very important. You go to radiolab.org donatetogive and there's also a text option as well. You just text the word Radiolab to 69866 that gets you started and you'll be able to complete your donation in a matter of, I would just say, seconds.
Minouche Zamorodi
Thanks for joining us. Thanks, Robert.
Robert Krulwich
Thank you. Foreign. Sam.
Minouche Zamorodi
NYC now delivers breaking news, top headlines and in depth coverage from WNYC and Gothamist every morning, midday and evening.
Terry Babcock Loomis
By sponsoring our programming, you'll reach a.
Minouche Zamorodi
Community of passionate listeners in an uncluttered audio experience. Visit sponsorship.wnyc.org to learn more.
Date: December 16, 2016
Hosts: Robert Krulwich, Minouche Zamorodi (guest hosting for Jad Abumrad)
Theme:
A celebration of the unique, reciprocal bond between Radiolab and its listeners, revisiting memorable listener stories and exploring the power of community, giving, and the ripple effects of storytelling.
This special episode turns the tables: the creators of Radiolab and some of their most notable fans meet, swap perspectives, and reflect on the ways the show and its listeners influence one another. Threaded through these encounters are meditations on giving—of time, voice, memory, and even life itself. The mood is warm, sincere, and often intimate, with the hosts and guests sharing candid moments and deeper truths.
| Segment | Topic | Timestamps | |---------|-------|------------| | 01:00–03:25 | Episode Framing: Gathering listeners and makers | | | 03:26–10:00 | Terry Babcock Loomis: Underwriting All-Star | | | 11:25–21:47 | Mayank Mishra: Grief, Science, and Curiosity | | | 23:05–28:51 | Amy Pearl: Life Wisdom from a Listener | | | 30:13–44:38 | Monet & Parker Bartel: Family, Football, and CTE | | | 47:01–55:51 | Sarah Gray: Donation, Legacy, and Agency | |
The episode is conversational, intimate, and often emotionally resonant. The hosts and their guests express gratitude, curiosity, and vulnerability, frequently pausing to savor insights or to acknowledge difficulty and growth. Though the structure is episodic—jumping among listeners and stories—the through-line is always connection and the significance of even small acts of generosity or communication.
"It's Not Us, It's You" turns Radiolab's lens back on itself and its community. Through conversations with beloved listeners and follow-ups to past stories, the episode explores the texture of giving—whether it’s a voice, an idea, a moment of kindness, or the ultimate gift of tissue and memory. The boundaries between creators and audience are blurred, celebrating the reciprocity that guides Radiolab and the powerful, sometimes unexpected, consequences of simply reaching out.
For those moved to act, the episode repeatedly invites contributions to keep such storytelling alive—echoing the episode’s core message: the real magic of Radiolab is in its living, giving ecosystem of listeners and makers, together.