Radiolab: "Jad and Robert: The Early Years" (Released May 6, 2008)
Host: Jad Abumrad & Robert Krulwich
Location: Oberlin College, Finney Chapel
Theme: Charting the Origin and Ethos of Radiolab
Episode Overview
In this special episode, "Jad and Robert: The Early Years," Radiolab co-hosts Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich return to their alma mater, Oberlin College, to recount the program's origins, early missteps, and the philosophical underpinnings that have shaped the show. Through candid storytelling and playful banter—delivered before a live audience—the duo demystifies their partnership, shares never-before-aired audio experiments, and reflects on the unique, inquiry-driven spirit that distinguishes Radiolab.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. How Jad and Robert Met and Began Collaborating
- Shared Background: Both attended Oberlin, though decades apart—Jad in the 1990s studying music composition, Robert in the 1960s focusing on history.
- Bonding Over Parallels: They discovered uncanny overlaps in their career paths: both had worked at WNYC, freelanced for NPR, and even at BAI ([02:45]).
- Quote (Robert, 03:03):
"Wait, so this is the deal. You're living my life 25 years after me. Let's go have breakfast. You can tell me what it's like on the other side or whatever you call it."
- Collaboration Spark: After numerous breakfast meetings, they decided to "try some radio together" ([03:17]).
2. The Flag Etiquette Piece: Early Creative (Mis)Adventures
- The First Joint Project: Their debut collaboration was an experimental audio piece "about arcane minutiae" on American flag etiquette, intended for This American Life’s “Flag Day” special ([03:40],[03:54]).
- Description: The piece humorously interweaves a 1950s instructional record with their own bewildered commentary and improvisational jokes.
- Memorable Segment (Robert, 05:07):
"To draw up a national code of flag etiquette. According to the law, our flag should always be raised briskly."
- Audience Reaction: The crowd hears their creative interplay for the first time ([04:31]-[06:37]).
3. Candid Feedback from Ira Glass
- Rejection and Confusion: Ira Glass, host of This American Life, harshly critiques the piece:
- Quote (Ira, 06:50):
"It was horrible. Yeah, it was really horrible. [...] There’s a special category where we really don't know what to say in response."
- Julie Snyder (paraphrased by Ira, 07:15):
She recalls being "really, really confused," and standing "in the bathroom staring at the brick wall" while listening.
- Quote (Ira, 06:50):
- Ira’s Final Verdict (07:35):
"Everything that was bad about it is still bad. Like it doesn't have a point. It starts off in a place that seems like it could go somewhere. [...] And then you just kind of dance on the surface...and then it ends and it says literally nothing."
- Outcome: Their submission is rejected — even losing out to “the sound of scallops for 25 seconds” ([09:35]).
- Robert’s Good-Natured Ribbing (09:36):
"I think that...if that man thinks that clicking scallops beats our flag thing, he should go back to radio school and start all over."
4. Oberlin’s Inspiring, Quirky Influence
- Challenging the Norms: Both hosts attribute Radiolab’s restless, experimental spirit to the values they absorbed at Oberlin—a place where creativity and questioning the status quo are encouraged, even to the point of absurdity ([10:03]-[10:46]).
- Memorable Reflection (Jad, 11:07):
"200 years of, you know, European harmonies handed down—that, you know, screw that. Why should we take the harmonies that are given to us from the Europeans? Let's just flip that on the head...Dissonance is a new consonant. Let's just question, man. Question.”
5. The Art and Ethics of Complexity in Storytelling
- Internal Tension: Jad tends toward elaborate detail and technical complexity, while Robert pushes for clarity and brevity—a balance that shapes the show’s unique style ([13:25]-[14:54]).
- Quote (Robert, 14:11):
"What I discovered is he thinks, he, he thinks to say to solve it is to say Jack and Jill went up the hill to get a pail of…Well, first of all, we'll begin with two molecules... Let's talk to 17 people about that. I said, no, we do not do that."
- Editorial "Tug of War":
- Jad comes with a “25 minute version,” Robert cuts it down.
- They settle on a "broad expanse of geography in the middle" — serving both novices and experts without dumbing down ([15:00]).
- Quote (Jad, 15:00):
"We have a bit of a tug of war often during the editing process...and then we sort of like, we find a nice balance."
- Presenting as Novices:
Both emphasize their commitment to being open, candid learners on air, which encourages honest inquiry and skepticism ([15:25]-[16:37]).
6. Breaking Down Science for Listeners
- Jad’s Personal Anecdote:
He recalls how his scientist mother’s passion at the dinner table inspired him, even if her technical language could be alienating during interviews ([16:37]-[18:13]). - Quote (Jad, 16:37):
"My whole life would come home at the dinner table and she's studying intake of fat into cells...and she'd grab the napkin and like, kind of carve it into a circle, like a cell...But what I get from her is this, like, excitement. It's a passion."
- Science as Experiment, Not Edict:
Jad emphasizes "bringing scientists off their podium"—focusing on their humanity, fallibility, and the joy of discovery.
7. How Radiolab Chooses Topics
- "Sticky" Ideas:
They discuss many concepts, but only pursue those that linger in their minds or challenge polite boundaries (like talking about the colossal testes of blue whales) ([18:24]). - Quote (Robert, 18:24):
"Do we continue to think about it? Does it sort of...stay sticky? And if we keep coming back...then it's worth pursuing."
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
Below are some standout lines from the episode, attributed with timestamps:
- On Creative Beginnings:
Robert (03:03): "You're living my life 25 years after me. Let's go have breakfast." - On Their Failed Early Piece:
Ira Glass (06:50): "It was horrible. Yeah, it was really horrible." - On Oberlin's Influence:
Jad (11:07): "Let's just question, man. Question." - On Tension in Storytelling:
Jad (14:54): "We have a bit of a tug of war often during the editing process..." - On Scientific Wonder:
Jad (16:37): "What I get from her is this, like, excitement. It's a passion." - On Selecting Topics:
Robert (18:24): "Sometimes we have to, like, sort of test whether it's polite enough. But the other thing is, do we continue to think about it? Does it sort of...stay sticky?"
Important Segments & Timestamps
| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------| | 00:30 | Jad sets the stage—return to Oberlin, shared roots | | 02:45 | The uncanny overlaps in Jad & Robert’s resumes | | 03:40 | The "flag etiquette" experiment explained | | 06:50 | Ira Glass delivers his infamous critique | | 11:07 | Jad on questioning norms, Oberlin’s radical ethos | | 13:25 | Audience Q: how to serve both novice and expert listeners | | 15:25 | On being honest, inquisitive “novices” on air | | 16:37 | Jad’s anecdote about his scientist mother | | 18:24 | How “sticky” ideas make the cut for Radiolab |
Episode Tone & Style
The episode is marked by warmth, humility, and playful irreverence—a tone oscillating between self-deprecating humor (especially about their early failures) and genuine reverence for curiosity, rigorous inquiry, and experimental creativity. Both hosts wear their Oberlin roots proudly, crediting the college with nourishing their urge to "poke at things" and to blend complex ideas with intimate, musical storytelling.
Final Takeaway
This episode is both a behind-the-scenes origin story and a meta-manifesto for Radiolab’s distinct curiosity-driven storytelling. Jad and Robert demonstrate that creative success is often born from repeated failure, and that the courage to ask naive questions—no matter how awkward—can lead to truly original work. The partnership thrives on balancing complexity with clarity, always seeking that elusive middle ground in storytelling where wonder, rigor, and accessibility meet.