Moon Trees

Summary

Radiolab – "Moon Trees"

Date: January 2, 2026
Hosts: Lulu Miller & Latif Nasser
Guest Contributors: Natalie Middleton, Ira Flato, Alan, and various child listeners

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Overview

This evocative episode of Radiolab is both a tribute to the late disability activist Alice Wong and a whimsical, heartfelt tale about "moon trees"—earthly trees grown from seeds that orbited the moon on the Apollo 14 mission in 1971. Radiolab, known for its curiosity-driven storytelling and sonic inventiveness, blends a celebration of Alice's life and joyful spirit with investigative science storytelling, unearthing a story of cosmic adventure, forgotten history, childlike imagination, and newfound earthly accessibility.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tribute to Alice Wong and Why the Moon

• The episode opens with a remembrance for Alice Wong: activist, writer, and friend of Radiolab.
• Alice’s Love For Space: In her own imaginative, satirical obituary, she mused about spending her final years living in a lunar capsule ("crypts in space"), inspiring Lulu to dedicate this moon-themed episode as a memorial.
• Themes Introduced: Accessibility—not just in disability advocacy, but as a lens on who gets to "touch" space.

"Now, when I look up at the Moon, I picture Alice is up there in lower gravity, experiencing less pain."
—Lulu Miller [03:57]

2. The Story of the Moon Trees

2.1. The Smokejumper Turned Astronaut

• Stuart "Smokey" Roosa: A former firefighter and Forest Service worker; later, an astronaut on Apollo 14.
• Roosa’s deep bond with trees leads him to bring 500 seeds on the lunar mission, aiming to find out if space travel would affect their growth or DNA.
• Seeds included Sycamore, Loblolly Pine, Redwood, Sweetgum, and Douglas Fir — species found across the US.

2.2 Apollo 14 and the Seeds' Journey

• Detailed retelling of the Apollo 14 mission’s nerve-racking, awe-inspiring moments.
• Seeds journey 250,000 miles, orbit the moon with Roosa, then return to Earth (via dramatic splashdown), surviving both space and a bag explosion during decontamination.

"He was the most alone person of the entire living human race. You're cold. But get this. You're also clammy, and it's pitch dark. And the other guys are, like, having fun, bouncing, playing golf on the moon."
—Lulu Miller [20:20]

2.3. Planting the Moon Trees

• Approximately 420–450 of the seeds germinated; the saplings were distributed nationwide to prominent and everyday places (White House, state capitols, Girl Scout camps, cemeteries, even private yards).
• Many trees lost their identity as "moon trees" over the decades as plaques disappeared and memories faded.
• The experiment: Initial findings showed no visible difference between "moon trees" and control trees.

3. Rediscovering the Moon Trees

3.1. The Third-Grader Who Sparked a Recovery Mission

• A young girl in Indiana notices a "moon tree" plaque at her Girl Scout camp in 1976; her teacher writes to NASA.
• Dr. Dave Williams at NASA begins tracking moon trees, crowdsourcing their locations.

3.2. A Living Link to the Moon

• Guest producer Natalie Middleton visits a moon tree, is emotionally struck by its presence.
• The notion of "access" re-emerges: Anyone can touch something that has "touched" the moon—no astronaut credentials required.

"To be able to touch a living thing that has actually traveled all the way to the moon and back and survived, it's a deep thing...It's like a joyful kind of ache."
—Natalie Middleton [28:02]

3.3. The Ongoing Hunt and Mapping

• Many moon trees remain unaccounted for. Natalie creates and shares an interactive "moon tree map" for public participation.

4. The Legacy, Science, and Imagination of the Moon Trees

4.1. Childhood Wonder and Speculation

• Child listeners imagine how space might transform trees: spiral branches, moon-berry fruit, magical properties like animal flight.
• The episode delights in the collision between data-driven science and exuberant speculation.

4.2. Ongoing Scientific Relevance

• NASA continues sending seeds to space (Artemis mission, ISS "Veggie" experiments) to study plant growth in zero gravity.
• The episode discusses aging in space (the “twin paradox”), food production for future space travelers, and the difficulty of nurturing plants in microgravity.

5. Musical Interlude & Artistic Reflection

• Alan Gofinski performs an original song, “Tangled in Your Roots,” poeticizing the hidden stories within the moon trees—a musical metaphor for resilience, possibility, and secrets held in plain view.

6. Listener Q&A

• Listeners ask about time dilation in space, space gardening, and the future of the moon tree project.
• Only about 100 of the original 400+ moon trees’ locations are known; listeners are encouraged to help find and catalog them.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Alice Wong on Power and Joy:
  "I am seeing Stevie Nicks in October and my witchy powers will be in full display."
  —Alice Wong [02:34]

• On Roosa's Loneliness in Lunar Orbit:
  "You're just like—the most alone person of the entire living human race. You're cold. But get this. You're also clammy, and it's pitch dark."
  —Lulu Miller [20:13]

• On Access and Touching the Moon:
  "To be able to touch a living thing that has actually traveled all the way to the moon and back and survived... It's like a joyful kind of ache."
  —Natalie Middleton [28:16]

• Children Imagine Moon Trees:
  "Maybe it'd have to grow...not with any water...different chemicals helping it grow... it would have blue leaves and a white trunk...inside of the coconuts is a piece from the moon."
  —Child Listener [12:18–13:12]

• On Science & Mystery:
  "Most of them are still out there growing. And nobody knows that they went to the moon."
  —Natalie Middleton [34:48]

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Timestamps & Segment Highlights

• [00:32–04:51]: Tribute to Alice Wong, her connection to space, and setup for the episode.
• [05:07–13:46]: Smokey Roosa’s backstory; childlike speculation on what a moon tree could become.
• [16:13–22:43]: Apollo 14’s mission, the seeds’ lunar voyage, and their dramatic return.
• [22:43–24:57]: Planting, growing, and forgetting about the moon trees.
• [24:53–26:22]: The third grader's discovery and NASA's subsequent moon tree recovery project.
• [26:30–29:02]: Emotional first-person account of meeting a living moon tree.
• [29:27–31:02]: Original song “Tangled in Your Roots.”
• [31:02–34:48]: Listener questions about time dilation, ISS gardening, Artemis moon tree sequel.
• [34:54–end]: Call to find lost moon trees; closing tribute to Alice Wong.

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Notable Resources

• Moon Tree Map: Linked on Radiolab’s website and episode description; public contributions encouraged.
• Alice Wong’s Legacy: Further reading, podcasts, and remembrance listed at Disability Visibility and Transom.org.

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Tone & Style

Radiolab’s signature blend of curiosity, empathy, and playfulness pervades the episode. Narration and conversation are infused with wonder ("Whoa," "How cool!"), gentle humor, and a spirit of invitation, both to discovery and communal remembrance.

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Conclusion

"Moon Trees" is both an elegy and an adventure—honoring a beloved friend while uncovering a chapter of overlooked scientific and personal wonder. In telling the story of seeds flung farther than any living thing, the episode tears down barriers—between Earth and space, science and myth, loneliness and belonging—ultimately suggesting that space, wonder, and memory are more accessible than we might think.

"Enjoy all of Alice’s good shit, and may you create some good shit as well."
—Alice Wong (as read by Lulu Miller) [36:15]

Transcript

[Lulu Miller]

Radiolab is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. Oh, wait, you're listening. Okay.

[Latif Nasser]

All right.

[Lulu Miller]

Okay.

[Latif Nasser]

All right.

[Lulu Miller]

You're listening to Radiolab Radio Lab from wnyc. Happy New Year. This past year, we lost a great one, Alice Wong, the renowned disability activist, MacArthur Award winner, and writer and podcaster. And so many other things, including, we all feel lucky to say, friend of Radiolab. You may remember her from an episode we did in the fall called Voice. Alice brought us a very rad and real piece about how losing her speaking voice changed how she responded to the world and how the world responded to her.

[Alice Wong]

I have observed people do talk over me because I guess they don't recognize the sounds I am making as a voice. And as you can guess, I see them silently plan their destruction.

[Lulu Miller]

And so, to kick off the new year, we all wanted to pay some small tribute to Alice. And as we were trying to figure out how to do that, I went back and listened to the last conversation we ever had, which was just two months before she died. And I felt guided by this one.

[Alice Wong]

Tiny moment to celebrate the recovery from my bed rest. I saw Lady Gaga in summer when she was in San Francisco.

[Lulu Miller]

Oh, awesome. What was that like?

[Alice Wong]

Oh, the energy and vibe was amazing. I dressed as Ziggy Stardust with full makeup and a sparkly pink shirt and silver pants and boots. I was really feeling myself and am pursuing pleasure as much as I can, while I can.

[Lulu Miller]

Alice was so serious about what she was doing. She went to bat for disabled folks. She called out ableism. She did not mince words. But she was also so full of joy.

[Alice Wong]

In fact, I am seeing Stevie Nicks in October and my witchy powers will be in full display.

[Lulu Miller]

My text chain with her is full of really bad puns, memes of her mocking my children, and F bombs. So many F bombs. Women curse like a sailor. And one thing that her Ziggy Stardust comment made me realize that maybe not everyone knew about her is that she was really passionately into space. In a fake obituary that she wrote for herself, she said that she lived to the age of 96 and spent the last few decades of her life living on the moon. She said she lived in a zero gravity capsule as a member of quote crypts in space, a Group of scientists, creators and explorers. Now, when I look up at the Moon, I picture Alice is up there in lower gravity, experiencing less pain. In that same obituary, she also imagined that we all organized a, quote, multidimensional interstellar memorial on her behalf. So, as I wait for aliens to get back to me regarding logistical details, I figured as a little start, we could play an episode about this place she dreamed of living, the Moon. Funnily enough, it is also a story that ends up being about access and about how the Moon itself is more accessible to most of us here on Earth than we realize. It is an episode of Terrestrials. Alice was actually an advisor of terrestrials. She was always rooting for weird work and helped us make pieces that treated disability with care. So here we go. Thank you, Alice. We miss you. Please accept this humble lunar offering as a small token of our immense gratitude. 3, 2, 1.

[Natalie Middleton]

Imagine that you're teeny, teeny tiny and you have this hard shell. But inside that hard shell is everything you need to start growing to 200ft tall.

[Lulu Miller]

And you are all set to be an ursling. Until somebody launches you, hurls you toward.

[Natalie Middleton]

The moon, and you travel 250,000 miles, the farthest that any living thing has ever been. You see the far side of the moon, where all there is is stars.

[Lulu Miller]

And then you start falling back, back, back toward the Earth at faster speeds where nobody is sure if you'll survive. But when you hit the soil, you.

[Natalie Middleton]

Feel the warm sun, and you unfurl from your shell. You have become a moon tree.

[Lulu Miller]

A moon tree.

[Natalie Middleton]

Yes.

[Lulu Miller]

All right, now is the part where I make you sing the theme song with me.

[Alan]

Terrestrials. Terrestrials.

[Alice Wong]

We are not the worst.

[Lulu Miller]

We are the best.

[Natalie Middleton]

Reals.

[Alan]

Bestials.

[Lulu Miller]

Yes. You got it. Terrestrials is a show where we uncover the strangeness waiting right here on planet Earth. I am your host, Lulu Miller, joined, as always, by my songbud, if you believe Alan.

[Alan]

We sent some seeds to the Moon.

[Lulu Miller]

And today we are joined by one of our favorite storytellers, one of the people who fact checks our Terrestrials episodes to make sure everything we're saying is true. Can you please introduce yourself?

[Natalie Middleton]

Hello, I'm Natalie Middleton.

[Lulu Miller]

So it's funny that you are the person on our team who kind of certifies truth, because you are bringing us a story that sounds like science fiction, like sci fi.

[Natalie Middleton]

Yeah.

[Lulu Miller]

Where do we start?

[Natalie Middleton]

This whole story begins, all thanks to a firefighter called Stu Smokey Russa.

[Ira Flato]

Ooh.

[Lulu Miller]

Smokey is his middle name.

[Natalie Middleton]

That's his nickname.

[Lulu Miller]

Smokey okay.

[Natalie Middleton]

Smokey the firefighter, originally born in Colorado in 1933. Redhead, freckles, tall, kind of lanky prankster. He was whip smart, really good at math, and he absolutely loved trees.

[Lulu Miller]

And after high school, he got a job with the Forest Service trying to fight this fungus called blister rust, which.

[Natalie Middleton]

Is a fungus that is really hard for trees to survive.

[Lulu Miller]

So you're saying he loved them so much, his actual job was to protect them from getting sick?

[Natalie Middleton]

Yeah. And so every summer after that, he would go and fight fires. What he became is called a smoke jumper.

[Lulu Miller]

A smoke jumper. That sounds a little scary.

[Natalie Middleton]

It's pretty dangerous. So they're jumping out of planes with a parachute, basically into the fire.

[Latif Nasser]

Wow.

[Lulu Miller]

Are they wearing, like, fireman gear, like the jacket?

[Natalie Middleton]

It's actually kind of similar to, like, an astronaut suit.

[Lulu Miller]

Hmm. And at some point, as he's floating through space, he wonders what it would be like to float through space. Higher. Space. Outer space. So first he learns how to fly a plane.

[Natalie Middleton]

Yes.

[Lulu Miller]

Then he trains and becomes an astronaut.

[Natalie Middleton]

He just kind of went up higher.

[Lulu Miller]

In the sky, and one day, NASA tells him he's going to the moon.

[Natalie Middleton]

Apollo 14. And his job, he's going to be the pilot.

[Lulu Miller]

Whoa. He's flying the spaceship?

[Natalie Middleton]

Yes.

[Lulu Miller]

Wow. Go, Smokey.

[Natalie Middleton]

It's a big job.

[Lulu Miller]

So the year is 1971. The spacecraft is all loaded up with gear and fuel, and each astronaut gets to bring with them one little bag.

[Natalie Middleton]

It's not big. It's almost like a pocket size.

[Lulu Miller]

It's made of a special type of.

[Natalie Middleton]

Glass that won't melt until it's hotter than over 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit.

[Lulu Miller]

Whoa. That's like a furnace.

[Natalie Middleton]

Very fireproof.

[Lulu Miller]

And what can they put in there? Is it like their. Their license and toothbrush?

[Natalie Middleton]

Yes. So astronauts actually just get to bring whatever is meaningful to them.

[Ira Flato]

Aw.

[Lulu Miller]

What would you bring?

[Alan]

Oh.

[Natalie Middleton]

So I have a. A daughter that's two. She drew a train, and, yeah, it would probably bring that.

[Lulu Miller]

What did Smokey bring?

[Natalie Middleton]

So out of everything that he could have fought to take on Earth, he chose to take tree seeds back to.

[Lulu Miller]

His love of trees. He can't shake it. Yeah. He brought a big handful of five types of seeds. Sweet gum leafy trees from the east.

[Natalie Middleton]

Coast of the US Loblolly pine. They're from the south.

[Lulu Miller]

Loblolly.

[Latif Nasser]

Loblolly.

[Lulu Miller]

Loblolly. That's fun to say.

[Natalie Middleton]

We have the redwood tree.

[Alan]

Oh.

[Lulu Miller]

Those big giants on the west coast that are too big to even hug.

[Natalie Middleton]

Then we have the Sycamore, super tall, leafy ones.

[Lulu Miller]

Lots of them in the middle of the country.

[Natalie Middleton]

The last one is the Douglas fir.

[Lulu Miller]

It's like a Christmas tree.

[Natalie Middleton]

Often Douglas firs, right? Yes. They chose trees that could be grown all across the whole entire country. Yeah. And they put them in this aluminum metal canister. Very small. It fits in the palm of your hand. So 500 of these seeds fit in the palm of Smokey's hand.

[Lulu Miller]

Wow. And so the day the launch, he puts this canister of seeds in his little white fireproof bag, waves to the masses, and steps onto the spacecraft.

[Natalie Middleton]

From a scientific standpoint, people just didn't know what would happen to a plant or a seed if you took it up into deep space.

[Lulu Miller]

Had no one ever taken one up before? No.

[Natalie Middleton]

So this was the first time, huh?

[Lulu Miller]

And he had a scientific question.

[Natalie Middleton]

What would happen if we brought another living thing up into space with us that's different than us?

[Lulu Miller]

Would it survive?

[Natalie Middleton]

Yeah, would it survive? Would it grow differently? Would it look like a totally different kind of tree?

[Lulu Miller]

Because, as Natalie explained, they knew that space affected humans.

[Natalie Middleton]

When you're out in space, you're exposed to stronger radiation from the sun and galactic cosmic rays.

[Lulu Miller]

And this radiation can wiggle its way into your DNA, the blueprint that tells your body how to grow and potentially warp things. Plus, the lowered gravity can weaken your bones and muscles. And oddly, because of something about how time works in space, you age just a tiny bit slower, which I still.

[Alan]

Don'T really understand, but I gotta keep moving on with the story.

[Lulu Miller]

And so Smokey and some of his fellow tree lovers at the Forest Service wondered, would space have an effect on the cells and DNA inside trees? Did he have any hypotheses on how space travel might affect growth of these trees?

[Natalie Middleton]

I looked. There's nothing that indicates what he thought, except that he thought it was a cool idea.

[Lulu Miller]

Okay. Well, lucky for you, Natalie, I put the question to a bunch of children.

[Natalie Middleton]

Oh.

[Lulu Miller]

And would you like to hear some of their answers?

[Natalie Middleton]

Yes, I would.

[Child Listener]

Maybe it'd have to grow. Not with any water. It would probably have different needs. Instead of, like, water, maybe something else. Different chemicals helping it grow. Maybe it would have to be growing on no gravity.

[Lulu Miller]

So how would that make the tree look different?

[Child Listener]

So branches and arch and then turn the spirals trying to go upwards a little higher because of just, like, the generally lower gravity on the moon.

[Natalie Middleton]

Yeah.

[Child Listener]

And there's also gonna be berries, golden berries, brine berry, a brine's berry. Maybe, like, blue leaves and white trunk. And it looks Like a palm tree.

[Lulu Miller]

But it looks like a what tree?

[Child Listener]

A palm tree.

[Lulu Miller]

Oh. Oh.

[Child Listener]

It's like a palm tree, but like white and gray. But inside of the coconuts is. Is a piece from the moon.

[Ira Flato]

Ooh.

[Lulu Miller]

Is it hard or soft inside?

[Child Listener]

Tastes like yogurt. And probably have a little metal in it. Then at the end of them, they were like little moon, like half crescents and full crescents and stuff like that. And if you touch one, you'll start to feel, like, tingly in your hand. And if you give one to your animal, your animal will get this little moon shape on its forehead and then they'll be able to, like, fly and stuff.

[Natalie Middleton]

Oh, my God, Lulu, these are so.

[Lulu Miller]

I don't. I just put the question out. Isn't this great?

[Natalie Middleton]

It just catches imagination, doesn't it? It's so fitting, Lulu, because it's really thanks to a third grader that we even know about this story.

[Lulu Miller]

Wait, what? Yeah, that story. Plus blast off after this short. Hi, I'm Lulu Miller, and this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Well, happy new Year out there. You know what this time of year means. You might be seeing a lot of people making resolutions about how they are going to transform themselves. They are gonna have the perfect routine, the perfect discipline, and a wicked strong body. But what if we resolve to just be more okay with who we are? Life's short, and the you inside you is the only companion you are guaranteed to have for the whole ride. So why not love on that little you inside you, Work on how to give it some breathing room, some care, whatever the you inside you needs help with. I can say that therapy has absolutely helped me come to more peace with me. But finding an affordable, accessible therapist can be hard. BetterHelp is a great place to start. You fill out a short questionnaire and they help match you to someone they think you'll like. BetterHelp says they typically get it right the first time, but if it's not a good fit, switching is very fast and easy. If you want to try it out, you can sign up right now and get 10% [e-mail] Radiolab that's betterhelp.com Radiolab.

[Ira Flato]

This is Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, the science Friday team has been reporting high quality science and technology news, making science fun for curious people by covering everything from the outer reaches of space to the rapidly changing world of AI to the tiniest microbes in our bodies. Audiences trust our show because they know we're driven by A mission to inform and serve listeners first and foremost with important news they won't get anywhere else. And our sponsors benefit from that halo effect. For more information on becoming a sponsor, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org 10, 9, 8, 7, 6.

[Natalie Middleton]

5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Blast off.

[Lulu Miller]

Goodbye, Smokey. Goodbye. What are the other names of the other astronauts?

[Natalie Middleton]

Edgar Mitchell and Alan Shepard.

[Lulu Miller]

Goodbye, Ed. Goodbye, Alan. Goodbye. Fireproof bag full of seeds. The fuel ignites, and on the outside, the spacecraft looks pretty slow. But on the inside, everything is rattling. The metal rivets are groaning and the seeds in the canister are bumping into each other. There's all this pressure from gravity trying to pull the spacecraft down. And then in one instant, it severs ties from Earth.

[Natalie Middleton]

And suddenly the seeds and the astronauts are floating in zero G. And Smokey.

[Lulu Miller]

Aligns his measurements and lurches the spacecraft toward the moon.

[Latif Nasser]

Stuart, how's your peanut butter? Not enjoying any peanut butter.

[Lulu Miller]

This is audio from the actual space flight.

[Latif Nasser]

Incredible. God, this is really a wild place up here.

[Lulu Miller]

For four days, they soar through space as that little moon in the sky grows bigger and bigger and bigger.

[Latif Nasser]

It seems so close. Looks like you just reach out and.

[Lulu Miller]

Touch it until they are right next to it.

[Latif Nasser]

Stu, we just got word that your family's listening to you and they're outside looking up at that great big moon. I'm sure we'd all like to be up there with you over and then stuff.

[Lulu Miller]

AKA Smokey.

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah, I wish you could be.

[Lulu Miller]

Releases Alan and Ed from the spacecraft to go land on the moon.

[Latif Nasser]

Nothing like being up to your armpits in lunar dust.

[Lulu Miller]

They get to go walk on the moon.

[Natalie Middleton]

Yes.

[Lulu Miller]

Lucky Alan. Lucky Ed. Yeah. Not only do they get to frolic around in moondust, Alan brought a makeshift. Makeshift golf club and golf balls to hit.

[Natalie Middleton]

Because of the gravity, you barely have to tap it. And it just flies miles and miles and miles.

[Lulu Miller]

I'm just picturing, like, it's like Alan and Ed playing on the moon, bouncing, feeling, doing what they do. And Smokey doesn't get to go.

[Natalie Middleton]

Yeah, well, that's what I thought. But actually, for every moon mission where people land on the moon, there's one astronaut that stays in orbit around the moon. And it's a really important job because.

[Lulu Miller]

That'S important, but it sounds less fun.

[Natalie Middleton]

Okay, but you'll see why I say that. So the command module. So that's what Smokey is in.

[Latif Nasser]

Stu Russa aboard Kitty Hawk.

[Natalie Middleton]

Okay, he's gonna continue to orbit around. He's gonna take pictures he's gonna do all these science experiments while he's 15.

[Latif Nasser]

19, 20th revolution of the moon.

[Natalie Middleton]

Orbiting and orbiting and orbiting the 22nd lunar revolution.

[Latif Nasser]

23. Rusa still apparently asleep.

[Natalie Middleton]

I think he orbits 32nd revolution, 34th, 34 times.

[Lulu Miller]

The moon.

[Natalie Middleton]

The moon.

[Lulu Miller]

Wow.

[Natalie Middleton]

And what happens when you're orbiting the moon is that you end up going.

[Latif Nasser]

Into the moon's shadow now passing over the back side of the moon, which.

[Natalie Middleton]

Is called the far side of the moon. And when you do that, everything gets really dark. You can't see the sun. Sun, it's cold. The temperature drops. Things get, like, really clammy. And then you also lose contact with everyone on Earth.

[Latif Nasser]

We have had loss of signal with the command module, Kitty Hawk, and everyone.

[Natalie Middleton]

On the moon, literally. It's Stu Smoky Rusa, and these seeds.

[Lulu Miller]

In his pocket are the only living things in that corner of the world.

[Ira Flato]

Yeah.

[Lulu Miller]

Okay, Natalie, you're not selling me.

[Natalie Middleton]

I'm selling.

[Lulu Miller]

Well, let me. You're just like. You are the most alone person of the entire living human race. You're cold. But get this. You're also clammy, and it's pitch dark. And the other guys are, like, having fun, bouncing, playing golf on the moon. So.

[Natalie Middleton]

So, yes, I left out the best part. So when you're going around, what happens is you suddenly see just this sheet of stars that just goes on forever and ever and ever. The astronauts that have experienced that have just, like, plunged into that side of space that no one ever gets to see.

[Lulu Miller]

But he can't admire the infinite void forever because he's starting to run out of gas. So he brushes by the moon, picks up Alan and Ed.

[Child Listener]

Thanks, bro.

[Lulu Miller]

Lurches the spacecraft back toward Earth.

[Latif Nasser]

We'll see you on the other side. Over.

[Lulu Miller]

Then starts dive bombing toward it, Traveling at over 16,000 miles per hour until.

[Natalie Middleton]

They splash down in the Pacific Ocean. Ocean. Under these three huge orange and white parachutes.

[Lulu Miller]

Huh.

[Natalie Middleton]

So the seeds made it back to Earth. They traveled so far. And then during the decontamination process, the cleaning process, there was an extreme change in pressure. And the bag of seeds explodes.

[Child Listener]

Oh, no.

[Natalie Middleton]

So the seeds just exploded all over the place. And everybody thought that they had killed them.

[Lulu Miller]

But the show must go on. The science must go on. So they sent them to forest service greenhouses where they planted all the seeds in soil. The sycamore seeds, which looked like tiny green pistachio nuts, and the Douglas firs, which looked like scales plucked from a pine cone, and the sweet gums and loblolly pines and the mighty redwood, which all begins in a tiny. That looks a little like a flattened corn kernel. They watered them and let the sun shine its warm rays. And then they waited. And they waited. And.

[Natalie Middleton]

Almost all of them came up.

[Lulu Miller]

Whoa. And so that's how many little saplings are growing.

[Natalie Middleton]

The estimate is 420 to 450.

[Lulu Miller]

50 of the 500.

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah.

[Lulu Miller]

And are they seeing any difference in that growth? I. I think about our kids and all the hypotheses and the spiral arms and the low gravity and the crescents. Like, was there. Were they seeing any difference at first?

[Natalie Middleton]

Actually, there was no difference at first.

[Lulu Miller]

But trees, famously long living, take a long time to grow, sometimes hundreds of years to reach their full height. So to continue the experiment, NASA planted the baby moon trees all over the country.

[Natalie Middleton]

There was a moon tree planted at the White House, at state capitols, at.

[Lulu Miller]

NASA centers, at a governor's mansion, a military fort.

[Natalie Middleton]

But then they also got planted in front of a junior high, at a Girl Scout camp right outside of a cemetery. So just all of these places all over with regular people.

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah.

[Lulu Miller]

Did anyone like to get one in their yard?

[Natalie Middleton]

Yes, people actually did.

[Lulu Miller]

No, just like Diane in Nebraska or whatever.

[Natalie Middleton]

Yes, there are moon trees at private residences.

[Lulu Miller]

How cool. Yeah.

[Natalie Middleton]

The funny thing is, though, so when they would do these ceremonies, sometimes they would put a plaque in, but other times they would just have the ceremony and they'd go along their merry way. And over time, people started to forget that these were moon trees.

[Lulu Miller]

Time presses on. The Berlin Wall falls, and the Mount St. Helens volcano erupts. And the trees keep growing, holding their secret inside. And Smokey Roosa dies, and you are born, and the moon keeps shining. And the experiment is mostly forgotten until one day, a little girl in Indiana notices something funny at her Girl Scout camp. A sycamore tree with a little plaque.

[Natalie Middleton]

Yeah, it just says, like, Moon Tree 1976.

[Lulu Miller]

Huh.

[Natalie Middleton]

Nobody remembers, even at the Girl Scout camp, like, what this was.

[Lulu Miller]

So she tells her third grade class teacher, Ms. Goebel, about it.

[Natalie Middleton]

Ms. Goebel emails.

[Lulu Miller]

NASA just says, hey, NASA. Dear NASA, question.

[Natalie Middleton]

Yes.

[Lulu Miller]

Yes.

[Natalie Middleton]

So the email finds its way to Dr. Dave Williams, who is a planetary scientist at NASA. And he doesn't know.

[Lulu Miller]

Oh.

[Natalie Middleton]

And he told me that nobody remembered.

[Natalia]

Wow.

[Natalie Middleton]

And that there was no official record of where the trees had been planted. So Dave decides NASA should go on a recovery mission of sorts. And he starts a website that basically says, if you have a moon tree or you know of a moon tree, let me know. And he started getting these emails from people who were like, hey, there's a moon tree in my plaza in my town. There's a moon tree in front of the hospital, where I went slowly. He's collected locations of these moon trees as people have kind of rediscovered them in their own backyards and made kind.

[Lulu Miller]

Of like a map.

[Natalie Middleton]

He didn't make a map. I made a map.

[Lulu Miller]

You made a map?

[Natalie Middleton]

Yeah. It's pretty cool.

[Lulu Miller]

Wait, really?

[Natalie Middleton]

Yeah.

[Lulu Miller]

Whoa.

[Natalie Middleton]

In my map, you can spin the earth and then you can, like, click on your. To see what moon tree is close to you.

[Lulu Miller]

And we have linked this on our website and right here in the episode description, just click on Natalie's moon tree map.

[Natalie Middleton]

Here we go.

[Lulu Miller]

And Natalie, for about 63 miles, continue straight.

[Natalie Middleton]

We're going to go find our moon tree.

[Lulu Miller]

Now realized there was one not too far from her in California, in a.

[Natalie Middleton]

Town by the sea called San Luis Obispo.

[Lulu Miller]

Cool little surfing town.

[Natalie Middleton]

I'm walking down some stairs, and I see a little creek. And it took me a while to find it. Holy cow. I found it. The plaque was very small. Like, I could see how people kind of just walk right by. And I'm going to try to hug it, see if I can get my hands around it. Oh, my gosh. Not even. Not even halfway around. And it smells so good. And when I saw it, it was just.

[Lulu Miller]

It.

[Natalie Middleton]

I actually got kind of emotional. Like, I went up to its trunk and I, like, touched its bark, and I started to cry.

[Lulu Miller]

Why?

[Natalie Middleton]

Space exploration is one of those things where not that many people get to experience it. And yet it's something that humans have wondered about for millennia, ever since we could wonder. We were looking at the stars and the moon. So to be able to touch a living thing that has actually traveled all the way to the moon and back and survived, it's a deep thing.

[Lulu Miller]

So for you, the thing is like. Is it almost like access? It's like almost getting to touch the moon.

[Natalie Middleton]

It's poignant. I don't know. I don't know. More of a kiddie word for that. It's like.

[Lulu Miller]

Well, how would you describe poignant for someone who doesn't know what it means?

[Natalie Middleton]

I would say it's like a joyful kind of ache. We usually tend to think of trees as rooted, and so to realize that these are travelers and that they've traveled so much farther than I will ever travel.

[Natalia]

Yeah.

[Natalie Middleton]

And then I looked up, and it just. It has redwood trees, have these huge kind of feathered branches that are just so beautiful. And there were, like, little Threads of spider silk that were like catching the sun Little rainbows of spider silk There was like a squirrel jumping around up there.

[Child Listener]

There were birds.

[Natalie Middleton]

I kind of went and sat on a bench nearby, and there was this whole construction crew that was on lunch break, and they all went and sat under the leaves of this moon tree. And I'm pretty sure they had no idea that it had been to the moon.

[Alan]

I wanna know the truth Tangled in your roots the things you've been through that make you you I want to know the truth Tangled in your roots Every leaf, every tree holds a history Tangled in the ro. Did you float through the shadows alone Surrounded by a silence that no one else KN the room? Were you lost in the ocean of stars where it all fades the dark and the air goes cold in the room did you go to the dark side of the moon? Would you talk about the feeling Talk about the vehicle in the room Are you back down on the ground now? Just waiting around now hum in a tune Waiting to bloom Tangled in your roots the things you've been through that make you you I wanna know the truth Tangled in your roots Every leaf if every tree holds a history Tangled in the room Spinning towards the star your branches spin towards the stars Spirals of leaves defy gravity Spinning towards the star yeah this journey would travel it on this spindle of secrets Sprouts from a sea I wanna know the truth Tangled in your roots the things that you've been through that make you you I want to know the truth Tangled in your roots Every leaf every tree.

[Lulu Miller]

Holds a history Tangled in the roots Alan Gofinski. And there's nothing else cool about that. What's that?

[Child Listener]

Excuse me.

[Lulu Miller]

I have a question.

[Child Listener]

Me two, me three, me four.

[Natalie Middleton]

The batters.

[Lulu Miller]

Listeners with badgering questions for the expert.

[Natalie Middleton]

Are you ready? Yes.

[Latif Nasser]

Hi, I'm Alex Winter, also known as.

[Lulu Miller]

Bill, from Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure Most Triumphant.

[Latif Nasser]

My question is, is it true that.

[Natalie Middleton]

Time moves differently in space?

[Lulu Miller]

Like, if I had a twin and.

[Latif Nasser]

He went to space, would we be different ages?

[Natalie Middleton]

Oh, yeah. Earth ages faster.

[Lulu Miller]

Oh. So if you went to space, you'd be younger.

[Natalie Middleton]

So Scott Kelly and his brother Mark Kelly are identical twin astronauts that did a science experiment. Basically, Scott went up and stayed for almost a year in space.

[Lulu Miller]

Whoa.

[Natalie Middleton]

And because of something known as the twin paradox, time passed more slowly for Scott up in space than for his brother Mark here on Earth. And what that means is that Scott returned to Earth younger than his brother Mark.

[Lulu Miller]

How much younger?

[Natalie Middleton]

8.6 million milliseconds. Younger.

[Lulu Miller]

I don't understand, but I like it.

[Child Listener]

Hi, I'm Tommy. I'm 11 years old. And my question is, would NASA ever plant seeds in space?

[Natalie Middleton]

They did.

[Lulu Miller]

They did.

[Natalie Middleton]

Uh huh. So they were called like the veggie experiments.

[Lulu Miller]

Okay.

[Natalie Middleton]

In recent years, astronauts took vegetable seeds up to the International Space Station to see if they could grow them in hopes of, like, if and when we kind of push our way out to Mars, the astronauts are gonna have to grow their food. Like, they're not gonna be able to pack all the food they need.

[Lulu Miller]

Oh, right, of course.

[Natalie Middleton]

So Scott Kelly, the twin part of what he was doing in space for that whole year was trying to grow plants.

[Lulu Miller]

Oh my gosh.

[Alan]

Yeah.

[Natalie Middleton]

But it's hard because watering them. So when you water plants in space, the water beads up in microgravity and it makes it really hard for it to reach the roots, and so you have to sort of like force it into the soil. And NASA also was making him wear gloves so that he wouldn't accidentally get a mold or something from the soil. But the thing was, is that with the gloves on, he couldn't tell if the flowers were getting enough water or too much water.

[Lulu Miller]

Oh, like he couldn't feel the soil kind of. Yeah.

[Natalie Middleton]

So finally he. He broke the rules and he took his.

[Lulu Miller]

Off the gloves. He took his gloves off so he could feel the soil?

[Natalie Middleton]

Yeah. And a little while later, check this out.

[Lulu Miller]

Oh my gosh. You are showing me a picture of these gorgeous orange flowers. Are these, are these, did these bloom out in space?

[Natalie Middleton]

Yeah, these are called zinnias and they bloomed in space.

[Lulu Miller]

Twinkle, twinkle, little zinnia.

[Child Listener]

Hi, my name is Theo and I'm nine years old. Does NASA have plans to keep studying moon trees?

[Natalie Middleton]

So the Artemis mission recently took seeds again to the moon.

[Lulu Miller]

So moon trees part two.

[Natalie Middleton]

Yeah, Moon trees part two. Okay.

[Lulu Miller]

And I have one last question. By this point, have they located all of Smokey's original, you know, 450 moon trees?

[Natalie Middleton]

No, there's just over a hundred that they know the locations of now.

[Lulu Miller]

Oh. So most of them are still missing.

[Natalie Middleton]

Most of them are still out there growing. And nobody knows that they went to the moon.

[Lulu Miller]

But you can look for them, look for their little plaques. And if you find one, drop an email to natalieataliemiddleton.org so that she can add its location to her map. And more people can also touch the moon via tree. That'll do it for today. Thank you for listening. And thank you again, Alice Wong, for lending your voice to this program. And to this world. I just published a longer remembrance about alice. It's called 13 Questions I'll Never get to Ask Alice Wong and you can go check it [e-mail] and if you just want more Alice. She has left behind many books and podcasts and essays and even a film, and you can find them all at Disability Visibility. I figure I'd end today with Alice's own words, the way she ended her own imaginary obituary. She wrote, instead of flowers, donations can be made to your local animal shelter, food bank, library, or mutual aid collective. Enjoy all of Alice's good shit, and may you create some good shit as well.

[Natalia]

Hi, I'm natalia and I'm from brooklyn and here are the staff credits radiolab is hosted by lulu miller and latif nasser. Soren wheeler is our executive editor. Sarah sandbach is our executive director. Our managing editor is pat walters. Dylan keefe is our director of sound design. Our staff includes jeremy bloom, w. Harry fortuna, david gable, maria paz gutierrez, sindhu nyan sambundan, matt kielty, mona madgaoker, annie mckeown, alex neeson, sara khari, anissa vitsa, arianne wack, molly webster, and jessica young, with help from rebecca rand. Our fact checkers are diane kelly, emily krieger, ana pujol mazini, and natalie middleton.

[Latif Nasser]

Hi, I'm Daniel from Madrid. Leadership support from Radiolab. Science programming is provided by the Simons foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support from Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

[Lulu Miller]

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