Radiolab – "Nazi Summer Camp"

Original Broadcast: May 22, 2015
Host: WNYC Studios (Jad Abumrad & Robert Krulwich)
Reported by: Karen Duffin

Episode Overview

Radiolab’s “Nazi Summer Camp” delves into a little-known chapter of American WWII history: the existence of prisoner-of-war (POW) camps for Germans—many of them Nazis—on American soil, and how these POWs were treated, especially in small towns like Aliceville, Alabama. The episode explores the moral and legal quandaries of how enemy soldiers should be treated in captivity, contrasting American ideals, international law, and questions of race, reciprocity, and national character.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Discovery of Nazi POW Camps in America

• Personal Start: The story begins with reporter Karen Duffin’s surprise discovery, via her father, that Nazi POWs once worked on her family’s Idaho farm (03:55).
  • Karen: “He mentions very casually… yeah, back when we had Nazi prisoners of war working on our farm, and I was like, time out. What? Really?”
• Scale and Secrecy: Historian Kathy Kirkpatrick reveals that nearly every state except Vermont hosted POW camps; at the peak, almost half a million enemy soldiers (Germans, Italians, Japanese) were held, many working in local communities (08:25).
  • Kathy Kirkpatrick: “At the maximum, we had over 371,000 Germans, 51,000 Italians, and 5,000 Japanese.”

2. Arrival and Life at Aliceville Camp

• Initial Reaction: Townspeople’s fear and morbid curiosity accompanied the arrival of 6,000 German POWs—four times Aliceville’s population (13:20).
  • Oral history: “They didn’t know what kind of devils we was going to get off that train… Guys with horns on their head.”
• Humanizing the Enemy: Locals expected “Nazi supermen” but saw exhausted, traumatized young men (15:11).
  • Local: “When I seen they were just a bunch of whipped kids, there was a feeling of concern in our hearts for them.”
• POWs’ Perspective: Prisoners describe harrowing transport across the Atlantic and surprise at humane treatment upon arrival (17:45).
  • Hans Kopera (prisoner): “It was really a sort of heaven… the best dinner I ever had. And I always… think on peanut butter.”

3. Geneva Conventions and “Being Better”

• Training and Commitment: Guards underwent extensive Geneva Convention training; rules were posted everywhere (19:54).
  • Thomas Sweet (guard): “The prisoners had to be treated the same as you would your own fellow soldiers.”
• Going Beyond the Law: U.S. camps provided music instruments, schools, sports, and more; POWs started several orchestras, a newspaper, and held art shows (22:20).
  • POW: “Within two months, they have an orchestra. Within a year, they have three.”
  • Ellen Wanders (POW’s daughter): “Der Fuhrer… Hitler had sent $12,572 to open the art exhibition…”

4. Integration and Controversy

• POWs in the Community: As labor shortages grew, POWs were sent to work on local farms, often forging bonds with American families; some even fell in love (27:40).
  • Story: “Farmers would bring them in the house for lunch. They would drink with them.”
• Backlash and Media Furor: Complaints surfaced over POWs receiving better food and conditions than Americans enduring wartime rationing. Journalist Walter Winchell led the charge against “coddling Nazis” (29:53).
  • Walter Winchell (radio): “The United States army caters to the Nazis as though they were kings… luxuries and all sorts of leniency beyond imagination.”
• Security and Radicalization: Lax security led to incidents like POWs flying swastika kites and hardliners intimidating fellow prisoners, sparking a congressional investigation (32:07).
  • Thomas Sweet: “They handed the string to one of the… guards and said, pull this string. And… all these swastika started falling all over.”

5. Reciprocity and Moral Dilemma

• Geneva Conventions Defended: Congressional hearings saw military leaders argue humane treatment protected reciprocation for captured American soldiers (36:14).
  • Archer Lurch: “We torture them, they'll torture us. Reciprocity. That’s why we have these treaties.”
• Reality of War: News soon broke of mass executions of American POWs in Germany and inhumane conditions in Nazi camps, challenging the ideals of reciprocity (37:15).
• Moral Crossroads: Discoveries of Holocaust atrocities prompted soul-searching; ultimately, the U.S. chose not to lower its standards, reaffirming a commitment to the Geneva Conventions (38:51).
  • Archer Lurch: “We are not going to lower ourselves to Nazi standards. We are not going to let the enemy decide who we are as a country.”

6. Race, Identity, and American Contradictions

• Racial Injustice: Historians underscore that, even as German POWs were well-fed and educated, Japanese-American citizens were interned in squalid camps (41:00).
  • David Goldfield: “The Germans were white. They seemed familiar… The major reason? Race.”
• Ambiguous Motivations: Military historian Paul Springer cautions that both international law and racial dynamics shaped outcomes, with rules acting as a check on human frailty (44:29).
  • Paul Springer: “The Japanese POWs were also exceedingly well treated… better than the Japanese citizens of the United States.”

7. Relevance to Modern Debates

• Contemporary Parallels: The episode draws lines between WWII POW policy and post-9/11 debates over detainee treatment at Guantanamo Bay—again raising questions about who qualifies for protection and the meaning of American values (47:38).
  • White House spokesperson (2002): “They will continue to be treated well because they're in the custody of America… The concern… was about if you don't do it here, then US Soldiers could, Could be mistreated abroad.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Discovery and American Amnesia:
  • Karen Duffin ([06:12]): “Why does nobody know this? …This was not talked about. We just don’t talk about it.”
• On Seeing the Enemy:
  • Aliceville Resident ([15:15]): “There was nothing but a bunch of young kids. How young they were. Haggard looking and washed out and beat, wounded. And some of them, they... maggots.”
• On American Ideals:
  • Archer Lurch ([39:09]): “We are not going to lower ourselves to Nazi standards. We are not going to let the enemy decide who we are as a country.”
• On Contradiction:
  • David Goldfield ([41:51]): “Right as we're giving the Nazis massive amounts of ham, we're also rounding up tens of thousands of Japanese American citizens. And we're throwing them into these cramped camps that are way worse than Aliceville.”
• On the Importance of Rules:
  • Karen Duffin ([46:22]): “It’s not just about aspiring to be good, this American ideal. It’s about having 97 really nitpicky, tiny, tedious rules to tell you exactly what you can do and what you can’t do, because it would just be so easy to not be the person that you want to be in that moment.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:55 – Karen’s father reveals Nazi POWs worked on Idaho farms
• 08:25 – Scale and secrecy of POW camps across the U.S.
• 13:20 – Arrival of prisoners in Aliceville, Alabama
• 17:45 – POWs describe their journey and first impressions
• 19:54 – Guards trained in Geneva Conventions; standards set
• 22:20 – POWs form orchestras, run schools, get food and privileges
• 29:53 – Walter Winchell sparks a national media scandal
• 32:07 – Security lapses, radicalization, congressional investigation
• 36:14 – Debate over reciprocity as justification for humane treatment
• 38:51 – U.S. reaffirms commitment to Geneva Conventions after exposure to Nazi atrocities
• 41:00 – Racial dimension: comparison to Japanese-American internment
• 44:29 – Historians consider motives; role of law and race
• 47:38 – Modern echoes: Guantanamo Bay and the boundaries of American principles

Conclusion

Radiolab’s “Nazi Summer Camp” offers a nuanced, often unsettling look at the complex interplay of law, ethics, race, and national identity when America became the custodian of thousands of enemy soldiers on its own soil. The episode leaves listeners wrestling with the paradoxes of American virtue—how ideals are challenged by self-interest, fear, and prejudice, and how written rules may be the only bulwark against moral collapse, especially in times of war.