Our Common Nature: West Virginia Coal

Summary

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Radiolab: "Our Common Nature: West Virginia Coal" (Nov 21, 2025)

A Summary

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Episode Overview

In this special crossover episode, Radiolab features an installment from "Our Common Nature"—a podcast series created by acclaimed cellist Yo-Yo Ma and producer Ana Gonzalez. The episode is a rich, immersive journey into the heart of West Virginia's coal country, exploring the complicated, deeply woven relationships between coal, community, nature, labor, race, music, pride, and hardship. Through storytelling, music, field recordings, and deeply personal interviews, the episode examines what keeps coal country together and what it means to belong to this landscape, despite its hardships and contradictions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of the Project: Music as a Bridge to Nature and Community

• (02:12 - 06:19)
  • Yo-Yo Ma’s inspiration: After performing outdoors in unexpected places (riverbeds, coal mines, caves), he wanted to deepen the connection between music, nature, and place.
  • Ana Gonzalez was brought on to document this journey; she compares her recording work to Yo-Yo Ma's music—both are ways of "relaying energy and sound and feeling" (05:38).
  • Yo-Yo Ma likens his role as a musician to that of a reporter, capturing experience through sound (05:10).

Notable Quote

“What I do as a musician is not unlike what a reporter does. I just have to report it through sound, and you report it through words.”
— Yo-Yo Ma (05:10)

2. Setting the Stage: Arrival in West Virginia

• (08:15 - 11:50)
  • Ana and Yo-Yo join a group picnic near the historical Nuttallburg mine with miners, musicians, and poets.
  • The episode opens with Diane Williams singing "16 Tons," a classic coal miner anthem, emphasizing coal’s grip on local culture and personal histories.

Notable Quote

“Coal has formed the lives of so many West Virginians. It's formed this country, really. But there's a dark irony to coal.”
— Ana Gonzalez (09:44)

3. Music, Memory, and Myth

• (12:02 - 16:16)
  • Kathy Mattea (folk singer/songwriter) shares stories of her coal mining family and discusses the ambiguous accuracy of “Take Me Home, Country Roads,” the state’s unofficial anthem—not actually written by or for West Virginians, nor referencing true West Virginia geography.
  • Bill Withers’ “Lean on Me” is introduced as a truer West Virginia song, written about community support in a coal camp.

Notable Quote

“It’s like a place where people feel invisible. And so to have that celebratory song that's proclaiming our existence and that yearning to be there is profound for people who are from there.”
— Kathy Mattea on "Country Roads" (15:25)

4. Race and Labor in Coal Country

• (16:51 - 24:20)
  • The narrative explores how racial dynamics manifested (and still manifest) in the mines.
  • Zora (Diane’s mother), a Black woman and miner for 20+ years, faced both racism and sexism.
  • Chris Saunders, Zora’s son, shares stories of resilience: “In coal mining, we always say everybody going to be black at the end of the day.” (18:42)
  • For Zora, survival required strength and wit—telling racist coworkers to write out their jokes only to reveal she collected them for a “book” (22:31).

Notable Quote

“She said, sometimes you just gotta let it roll off your back and keep on doing what you gotta do.”
— Chris Saunders on his mother Zora’s philosophy (22:31)

5. Modern Mining, Pride, and Economic Realities

• (24:33 - 30:16)
  • Chris explains why coal remains a lifeline for many: financial stability, health insurance, and legacy.
  • Despite increased automation and layoffs, mining continues to offer “the best coal in the world to make steel” (29:15).
  • There’s a tension between external condemnation of coal and internal pride.

Notable Quote

“If I gotta be on oxygen again, I don’t want it.”
— Chris Saunders, reflecting on health risks and family legacy (24:55)

6. Tragedy: The Upper Big Branch Mine Disaster

• (34:20 - 39:19)
  • Chris revisits the site of the 2010 disaster that killed 29 miners.
  • He recounts being underground when the explosion happened and losing many friends.
  • The community mourned while corporate priorities forced survivors back to work almost immediately.

Notable Quote

“Regardless who wrong, who right, what happened, let’s show some kind of compassion.”
— Chris Saunders, on going back to work after the tragedy (39:19)

7. Articulating Pain and Hope: Voices of Black Appalachia

• (39:33 - 45:28)
  • Poet and activist Crystal Good shares her poem “Black Diamonds,” focusing on black miners’ invisibility and communal grief.
  • She speaks of feeling tired—of activism, of surviving, and of poisoned water supplies from coal.

Notable Moment

“In Appalachia, West Virginia is 3% black. It’s survival. Tell me how you’re gonna survive in a coal mine talking about, you know, black power…”
— Crystal Good (42:46)

8. Resilience, Nature, and Renewal

• (47:23 - 51:23)
  • Whitewater rafting trip with local youth program "Step by Step"—a joyful, communal moment capped by Yo-Yo Ma playing Bach along the riverbank and music-making with Dom Flemons and Kathy Mattea.
  • Singing, dancing, food, and music show communal bonds and foster belonging.

Notable Quote

“We need one another in order to function and survive and thrive. We need one another and we need to do things together in order to break the ice and to break the cycle of fear, of mistrust and territoriality.”
— Yo-Yo Ma (50:15)

9. Personal Loss, Community, and Legacy

• (52:09 - 54:08)
  • Ana follows up with Chris Saunders, whose mother Zora died shortly after their interview.
  • Chris’s grief and pride in his mother’s resilience and legacy are palpable.
  • The funeral home gave Zora’s family a discount for her service as a miner.

Notable Moment

“My mom loved me, and I love her. I said, and we just coal miners, you know?”
— Chris Saunders (53:54)

10. Final Reflections and Farewell

• (54:36 - 56:58)
  • The episode closes with “We Are Almost Down to the Shore,” a song etched with pain, perseverance, and hope.
  • Ana reflects on how coal both enriches and takes from the community, and how the river and mountains remain central to recovery.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “What I do as a musician is not unlike what a reporter does...” — Yo-Yo Ma (05:10)
• “Coal has formed the lives of so many West Virginians. It's formed this country, really. But there's a dark irony to coal.” — Ana Gonzalez (09:44)
• “It's like a place where people feel invisible... to have that celebratory song that's proclaiming our existence ... is profound for people who are from there.” — Kathy Mattea (15:25)
• “In coal mining, we always say everybody going to be black at the end of the day.” — Chris Saunders (18:42)
• “Sometimes you just gotta let it roll off your back and keep on doing what you gotta do.” — Zora Saunders (as recounted by Chris, 22:31)
• “We need one another ... to break the cycle of fear, of mistrust and territoriality.” — Yo-Yo Ma (50:15)
• “The biggest thing I've learned about West Virginia is just how much coal seeped out of these hills and into people’s lives ... It's a mixture of both [enriching and taking].” — Ana Gonzalez (41:50)
• “My mom loved me, and I love her. I said, and we just coal miners, you know?” — Chris Saunders (53:54)

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------|------------------| | Meet Yo-Yo Ma & Ana Gonzalez, project origin | 02:05 – 06:41 | | Diane Williams sings “16 Tons” | 08:15 – 08:51 | | Kathy Mattea on “Country Roads” | 13:32 – 15:25 | | Stories of Zora Saunders (black woman, miner) | 17:26 – 24:20 | | Chris Saunders: economics & community pride | 24:33 – 30:16 | | Upper Big Branch Disaster | 34:12 – 39:19 | | Crystal Good performs “Black Diamonds” | 39:33 – 41:50 | | Nature outing: whitewater rafting, music | 47:23 – 51:23 | | Zora’s death: Chris’s call with Ana | 52:09 – 54:08 | | Episode reflection and closing song | 54:36 – 56:58 |

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Memorable Moments

• The sound of Yo-Yo Ma’s cello echoing along the riverbanks during a whitewater rafting trip with local children (48:07).
• Crystal Good’s “Black Diamonds” poem connecting grief, labor, and racial invisibility (39:33–42:46).
• Portrayal of Zora’s wit and strength in facing racism, and the familial love and loss that bookends the narrative (22:31, 52:09–54:08).
• Towns binding together in song—singing “Country Roads” despite its inaccuracies and “We Are Almost Down to the Shore” as a benediction for coal country (51:23, 54:36–56:58).

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Tone & Style

The episode, like the "Our Common Nature" series itself, is gentle, immersive, and deeply empathetic, mixing field reporting with live music, personal testimony, and a sense of awe for nature and the community spirit of Appalachia. Ana Gonzalez’s and Yo-Yo Ma’s engaging, curious, and respectful approach brings out human vulnerability and resilience, while refusing to shy away from the complexities and pain that define life in West Virginia’s coal country.

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Conclusion

Radiolab’s feature “Our Common Nature: West Virginia Coal” offers a nuanced exploration of coal’s role in shaping people, environment, and culture. With perspectives from miners, artists, and activists, and with music as a connective tissue, the episode honors the literal and figurative landscape—celebrating both belonging and struggle, and inviting listeners to reflect anew on nature, community, and the stories that bind us to place.

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Transcript

[Radiolab Sponsor Announcer]

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[WNYC Studios Sponsor Announcer]

WNYC Studios is supported by Princeton Theological Seminary. Now offering Damascus Road in partnership with my next season, this five month faith based journey invites executives to pause, listen and make a sacred shift as they reimagine God's call for the next season of life. With retreats on the seminary's campus for formation with seminary faculty and one on one coaching, Damascus Road weaves together scripture, vocation and real world tools, guiding leaders toward clarity and renewal. Take your next step at ptsem. Edu Damascus Road Radiolab is brought to.

[Latif Nasser]

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[Diane Williams]

Okay.

[Chris Saunders]

All right.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Okay.

[Chris Saunders]

All right.

[Ana Gonzalez]

You're listening to Radiolab Radio Lab from wny. See?

[Latif Nasser]

Yep. Hey, this is Radiolab. I'm Latif Nasser. A little while back, Lulu and I had. We were basically starstruck because we got to sit down with a living musical icon.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

Oh, my goodness.

[Chris Saunders]

Hi, Latha.

[Ana Gonzalez]

It's so great to meet you.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

Oh, my gosh. I can't believe it.

[Latif Nasser]

Yo Yo, Matt. Yo yo, of course, is a famous cellist, Kind of the famous cellist. He's won 19 Grammy awards, produced more than 90 musical albums. But the reason we were sitting down.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

To talk to him was I'm a newbie at podcasting.

[Latif Nasser]

We got together with our friend, producer and host Ana Gonzalez, and they made a whole podcast series called Our Common Nature. And we loved the podcast so much that we wanted to sit down and talk to the two of them about why they made it.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Yeah. So the idea for the podcast started with yo yo. Right. Like, he'd been doing these outdoor performances for about a year, and he was basically trying to reconnect to nature himself and bring music outside of the concert hall, playing in locations that you wouldn't necessarily expect to find a classical music concert like on A riverbed or by a coal mine in a cave in the woods. And they were these really intimate performances, kind of to whoever was around. And at a certain point, yo yo wanted to get this to more people. He decided he should have somebody on the ground with him with a microphone, making recordings, making stories. And at some point, he and his team came to me, and they asked, do you want to be that person? Do you want to be on the ground with a microphone making recordings with me? And I was like, yes, please. That sounds amazing.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

Well, I was so happy to meet Anna because she also works with children.

[Latif Nasser]

You may recognize Ana's voice because she's also a producer on our sister show for families, Terrestrials.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

She has this wonderful podcast with children. And actually, I never grew up, so I started from a child's point of view. You know, we've all pestered adults with the question, why? At a certain age, it's usually around two or three years old, why? Why Daddy? Why Mommy? But I think I never stopped. And then, of course, in the natural world, which I came to later, although I think the fascination was there always, I think, who hasn't looked out in the night sky and wondered, what's out there?

[Ana Gonzalez]

I mean, just all of that that Yoyo just said made it so fun to go with him, because he is this great combination of childlike wonder, you know, just having fun playing such a people person, and then would, like, prank me by, like, saying, like, oh, I want to say something important, and then, like, make duck sounds into my microphone. And the way that people opened up with yo yo there, him having his cello playing music as an offering, it opened up these worlds that otherwise would take years, honestly, of relationship building that we could do in a day.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

What I do as a musician is not unlike what a reporter does. I just have to report it through sound, and you report it through words. Although Ana comes pretty close to reporting it through sound, because in West Virginia, we had a lovely dinner for all the participants that were gonna come in, and they had a cider press, and guess what? Anna was there with her big, fuzzy microphone recording the sound.

[Ana Gonzalez]

I think that was the first thing I recorded was yo yo pressing apples on an apple farm. Like, I recorded people eating food and fire crackling and the crickets chirping. And so, yeah, I also thought the same thing in that moment. Yo Yo. I was like, oh, we're doing the same thing. You have a cello and I have a microphone. But we're, like, relaying energy and sound and feeling in our own mediums.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

What Ana did and does is she's able to do. Not reporting on facts or even on knowledge, but. But reporting on experience.

[Latif Nasser]

The series they ended up making together, I mean, it's basically Anna and Yo yo going around to different locations across the country, climbing mountains, rafting rivers, chanting to whales, bringing music to people in these places, and then telling stories about those places and their connection to the natural world.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

And that hopefully these podcasts are there to give a sense of, through sounds and words, what it feels like to be there and to be part of every special community that we visited. That gives us the best possible way of sharing a deep experience of a place with a radio audience.

[Latif Nasser]

I think I said this to Anna when I first heard it. Like, it's sort of spiritually refreshing. It's kind of so at odds with all the news or other media that I feel like is out there right now. It feels like slower and richer and more human somehow.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Thank you, Latif. I mean, yeah, I felt that way the whole time.

[Radiolab Sponsor Announcer]

Making it.

[Ana Gonzalez]

It made it all worth it because everyone deserves that kind of four dimensional view of their lives and where they live.

[Latif Nasser]

So we decided to pluck one episode out for you to hear. It takes place in West Virginia and covers, among other things, a huge recent tragedy I had never even heard of one of the oldest rivers in the world that is improbably called New River. And a famous song that you may have even sung at karaoke that's based on a lie. Take a listen.

[Diane Williams]

As a little girl, I would go with my granddad to the company store and all the coal miners would be around and they would say, sing me that song. And they would pay me. So I would get a few pennies for penny candy. And it was 16 tons, so I would sing 16 tons and what do you get? Another day older and a deeper Indian. Say, Peter, don't you call me. Cause I can't go. I owe my soul to the company store.

[Ana Gonzalez]

That's Diane Williams. She's sitting with me and yo yo and a group of coal miners in New York River Gorge national park in West Virginia. It's the first weekend of fall and we're outside of a historical mine called Nuttallberg. The Appalachian hills around us are tight and thick with summer leaves. The river behind us is a constant flow. We just had a picnic of pepperoni rolls and Mr. Pibb from Real life Coal miner lunch buckets. And then yo yo stood up as a stranger.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

I'm so overwhelmed with a sense of appreciation and gratitude for what you have Done. It's important to unite all of us because you've united us once before in what you've done. So what would you like us to take away?

[Ana Gonzalez]

Cole has formed the lives of so many West Virginians. It's formed this country, really. But there's a dark irony to coal.

[Diane Williams]

St Peter, don't you call me. Cause I can't.

[Ana Gonzalez]

You hear it in that song 16 tons.

[Diane Williams]

I owe my soul to the company stone.

[Ana Gonzalez]

And that irony makes it hard to get to know Cole if you're an outsider, especially today, as Cole faces another challenge. The industry, especially in West Virginia, is shrinking. Coal is changing, but the culture of it is still there in these Appalachian towns. So in this episode, we dig into the music and the stories of West Virginians whose lives are defined by coal to see what keeps people holding onto this place and the black fossil falling out of its hills. Hi, I'm Ana Gonzalez, and this is our Common Nature a musical journey with Yo Yo Ma through this complicated country to help us all find that connection to nature that so many of us are missing. We climb mountains, play music, drive dirt roads, recite poetry, traverse rivers and oceans, and even our own brains, all to figure out how to better live on our planet together. Can I get you to do the classic intro? Who are you and what do you do?

[Yo-Yo Ma]

I'm Yo Yo Ma and I play the cello. Always great to see you.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Oh, it's great to see you.

[Diane Williams]

Yeah.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

Thanks for having me.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Isn't it weird that we have a podcast together?

[Yo-Yo Ma]

I know, it's fantastic.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Yo yo and I travel deep into the heart of West Virginia because it's a place we both don't know very well. And this trip winding through Appalachian mountain towns was a way to learn more about this place that holds so much of our country's history and identity.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

I was struck by the immense beauty of the landscape and the rivers, the mountains, and how extraordinarily kind the people we met were.

[Chris Saunders]

Lost all my money but a $2 bill. I'm on my long journey home.

[Diane Williams]

Back.

[Ana Gonzalez]

On that riverbank in New River Gorge by the old mine. We're here with a bunch of people whose lives have been touched by coal miners, of course, but also a poet and some musicians. We want to get to know this place, so we start on some common ground.

[Chris Saunders]

You know, coal miners is gospel music, country music. Oh, lovely. Kathy Mattelia.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Kathy Mattea. He said she's a West Virginian singer, songwriter, and she's here, too.

[Kathy Mattea]

Well, they're my people. I mean, they just are.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Both of Kathy's grandfathers worked in West Virginia mines.

[Kathy Mattea]

My grandfather mined a 30 inch SEMA coal. He did it with a pick and would pick sideways into the coal and work his way in. And my grandmother would sew leather patches onto the backs of the top of his shirt so that when he wedged himself in against the ceiling, it wouldn't wear through his shirts.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Kathy grew up hearing stories like this from everyone in her family. They'd all gather in one of her grandparents homes and tell stories and play music. That's where Kathy started playing guitar. Her parents would get her to perform. And this was around the 1970s when a new song was taking over West Virginia radio. How many times would you estimate you've played Country Roads in your lifetime?

[Kathy Mattea]

Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds. Y' all have to sing with me though, because that's the whole point, you know.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Take Me Home Country Roads is quintessential Americana music. People all over the world know it, and in West Virginia, this song is the song. West Virginia university football games, high school graduations, weddings. It is so nostalgic for this version of West Virginia that feels good and it's absolutely beautiful, but it's not really.

[Kathy Mattea]

True because all the specific locations they mention are in Virginia.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah river. Those are Virginia landmarks. And while the mountains and the river both technically travel into West Virginia, it's the most eastern side. And the song is just clearly not written for West Virginia. Kathy said that the songwriters had never even been to West Virginia when they wrote the lyrics. They were singer songwriters in Washington D.C. who started naming pretty landmarks in that general area. One of them was even thinking about his home in Massachusetts, but they decided to use West Virginia because it sounded really nice.

[Kathy Mattea]

The people who wrote it didn't know, but you know, where else are you going to find a song that's coming out of all the dashboards of all the radios and all the cars in the country that screams West Virginia Mountain.

[Chris Saunders]

Mama, Take me home.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Start the tag. Take me home.

[Radiolab Sponsor Announcer]

Control.

[Kathy Mattea]

It's like a place where people feel invisible. And so to have that celebratory song that's proclaiming our existence and that yearning to be there is profound for people who are from there. And we might be on completely different sides of the political spectrum and the social spectrum and all those things, but we can sing Country Roads together.

[Ana Gonzalez]

So this song that the whole world thinks of as representing West Virginia actually doesn't, at least not like literally. And as we sit along the riverbank, a coal miner named Dorsal brings up another Musician that he thinks represents West Virginia. Bill Withers. Like Ain't no Sunshine. When she's gone, Just the two of us. Bill Withers, he grew up in a coal mining town in West Virginia.

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah.

[Chris Saunders]

Lean On Me.

[Kathy Mattea]

He told me dorsel that he wrote Lean On Me about living in the coal camp.

[Ana Gonzalez]

You just call lonely brother when you need a hand. Kathy met Bill one time and he told her that this song about people leaning on each other, supporting each other was written about coal miners.

[Kathy Mattea]

And nobody cared what color anybody was.

[Chris Saunders]

That's why he was on the.

[Kathy Mattea]

Yeah, he said that's nobody cared. It just wasn't a thing in the community. Everybody just helped each other.

[Additional Interviewee (possibly a coal miner or local resident)]

That's right.

[Chris Saunders]

So always look out for each other. As long as you're on that same crew, everybody's the same crew. Always look out. Black men, and they work just as hard as the white men. And as long as everybody did their job, everybody got along really good.

[Ana Gonzalez]

So they're saying that Lean On Me is about the ways minors support no matter their race. And I'd love to believe that life actually played out like that. But in the crowd, there are two black women. Diane, who spoke at the top of the show and sang 16 tons and her mom, Zora.

[Diane Williams]

I'm Zora.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

Yup.

[Diane Williams]

I worked underground 20 years.

[Ana Gonzalez]

It's hard to hear Zora because she spent decades in the mines and now her lungs are damaged. So her daughter Diane, who's sitting right next to her and holding her hand, she speaks up.

[Diane Williams]

This is my mother, Zora. She worked in the coal mines down at Maple Meadows for 20 plus years until it closed. She told us as we were growing up about the young men that she worked with. But she always had a story to tell about how the men would pick at her and would make her do their work if she. If she cleaned her belts, they would always leave some more for her to do. And how she used to threaten to beat their you know whats when she got them outside.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Okay, that's a little different from Kathy Mattea's. Read on Lean On Me. And it turns out that Zora and Diane come from a big mining family.

[Diane Williams]

Talk about history. So my granddad was a coal miner. My uncle was a coal miner. My mom. I still have a brother, Christopher Saunders, that's still working in the coal mines.

[Ana Gonzalez]

If I want to get to know this place a little bit more, I have to meet Chris.

[Chris Saunders]

I mean, in coal mining, we always say everybody going to be black at the end of the day.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Chris Saunders. After the break.

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[WNYC Studios Sponsor Announcer]

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[Ana Gonzalez]

Our common nature is back. We're in West Virginia meeting up with present day coal miner Chris Saunders, who also happens to be black.

[Chris Saunders]

And when you underground, you put all that aside. If you have any prejudice in you, all that because you gotta work together. You gotta work safe. Now when they come back up, it might be a different story.

[Ana Gonzalez]

We met up at a local history museum in West Virginia it focuses on coal mining. And there was an exhibit dedicated to his mom, Zora.

[Chris Saunders]

Yeah, there she is. And this is one of the pictures. This was the crew that she worked with at the end on the bell. That's her? Yeah.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Whoa.

[Chris Saunders]

That's her.

[Ana Gonzalez]

There's this great photo of Zora in a hard hat and aviator sunglasses, leaning up against a chain link fence. And she has the face of a woman who's put up with a lot of shit.

[Chris Saunders]

And it's so true. Cause there's still a stigma about women being in the coal mines. I can imagine so. Plus she was a black woman, so that stigma was there.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Chris told me his mom came to coal mining as a single mom of four. She had moved down from New York City to take care of her aging parents, and her dad actually was a coal miner. For Zora, working in the mines was a livable wage. It would pay for the house, the kids, the parents. But the other miners let her know that a woman, and a black woman at that, wasn't part of the boys club.

[Chris Saunders]

My mom's a hard worker. She said, I'm a prove to you I can outwork you. I can out thank you. I'm going to treat you with love and kindness regardless of what you say or do to me. She said, sometimes you just gotta let it roll off your back and keep on doing what you gotta do. She had a guy that was always wanted to tell her the n word jokes. She said, oh, baby, I ain't got time for that. I tell you what you do. Write them out for me and let me read them. So every day he writin these big long jokes and she'd just fold them up, fold them up. And then he come to her one day and he say, I'm the one dumb enough to be writing these jokes out and you ain't doing nothing but throwing them away. She said, no, I got them all. I'm making you a book like that. And buddy, he just laughed. He said, mom, I'm sorry, you know. And that's just the way she was. She said, now he gonna sit up and waste his time writing these jokes out every day. And I let him do it. That's my mom, y'.

[Additional Interviewee (possibly a coal miner or local resident)]

All.

[Chris Saunders]

I mean, that's just her.

[Ana Gonzalez]

And this was just one of the stories Chris had about his mom warding off bullies. They'd steal her lunch.

[Chris Saunders]

She baked brownies and put egg sacs in them. And so she knew exactly who was getting in her lunch. Buck or her bucket. That's what they call it.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Some days she didn't have a good comeback or the energy to bake brownies. Some days she was tired.

[Chris Saunders]

She would always say, I done the best I could for y'.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

All.

[Chris Saunders]

I said, I know that, mama, you know? And she would apologize for us not being there a lot, so. But I had a great mom.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Yeah.

[Chris Saunders]

Still do. I'm a big softy. Yes. But, yeah, she. She's a. And she taught us how to love people.

[Ana Gonzalez]

The sentiment behind lean on Me was probably not true for Zora, but it is for Chris. He's committed to the job and his co workers through thick and thin.

[Chris Saunders]

You know, the money was good to be in Appalachian to go to high school and get out and can make 100 grand right out the gate. 18 years old, huh? I'm just telling you, that's the type of money they paying you and give you health insurance for everybody in the family. And I look at it like this. I chose to do this, but if I gotta be on oxygen again, I don't want it.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Yeah. Do you think about that with your mom?

[Chris Saunders]

Yeah.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Zora's condition has worsened since I saw her along the banks of the river, and now she can't speak without oxygen. Chris is worried about her, but that's not the only thing he's worried about.

[Chris Saunders]

We have what I call. I'm gonna keep it right. Kiss my butt curves like, you gonna go around, and then you. So we. If we get ready to go through a few of them down this way.

[Ana Gonzalez]

If you look at a map of Route 3 heading west from Beckley, West Virginia, it looks like a squiggle. It follows every twist and turn of the Coal river through Eccles, Glendaniel, Rock Creek, and Dry Creek. My producer Alan, is swerving in the rental car with Chris Saunders as a passenger, and I'm in the backseat trying not to get carsick. I see a lot of Trump.

[Chris Saunders]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. All of us, we love Trump. Everybody here, you see that? And now he's an outlaw. So.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Like, how much of the population is related to coal?

[Chris Saunders]

Like, probably 90%. It's either railroad, coal, or timber.

[Additional Interviewee (possibly a coal miner or local resident)]

Yeah.

[Ana Gonzalez]

And the railroad is how you move the coal.

[Chris Saunders]

Right?

[Yo-Yo Ma]

Right.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Yeah.

[Chris Saunders]

Right.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Is this weird for you to be in a car when people ask you all these questions?

[Chris Saunders]

Yeah. Yeah. All right. I like to talk.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Chris, like a lot of miners, isn't quick to trust people with microphones. We couldn't get permission to even enter the parking lots of any of the coal mines that were driving by. People are even suspicious of the North Carolina Plates on the rental car.

[Chris Saunders]

He know he can't drive down here. What are you doing up here? Yeah, but this one here, look, this is the kitchen box. What would I call it?

[Ana Gonzalez]

West Virginia is an isolated place. It's not only the geography, but the culture. People not from here don't always get it. And the truth is that coal formed these towns. Coal built these houses and set these families up. For generations, coal formed unions and made billion dollar deals. But coal kills. And coal releases massive amounts of pollution into the world. People today don't usually understand why anyone in the 21st century would work in this industry.

[Chris Saunders]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why I was kind of leery about talking to you at first. Yeah, I'm just being truthful, you know, because I said now I don't want to say, you know, be nothing negative to what I do. And it's negative to every job. It really is. But it has been great to my family, financial, financially and stuff like that.

[Ana Gonzalez]

But for Chris, mining is about more than just making money. It's about survival.

[Chris Saunders]

In the 80s and stuff, I got into the drug trade and got on some stuff and had no business doing, you know. And then I started going to Church in 93 is the year I went into mines. That was just a prayer. I was like, well, God, here I am now. I need to provide for my family. The street life ain't gonna get it, you know, And God opened doors. I wanted to follow in my mom's footsteps, and it's been a great way to provide for my family.

[Ana Gonzalez]

I think that's what we're trying to get at, right?

[Yo-Yo Ma]

It's complicated.

[Chris Saunders]

Yeah, it is.

[Ana Gonzalez]

The history and culture of coal is complicated. Human beings have actually used coal for fuel for thousands of years. People would just pick it out of the hills and burn it, because coal itself is just fossilized plant material that's millions of years old. But it's only in the past century or so that coal mining in the United States has grown to be king coal. So much of our world is made with coal, and specifically West Virginia coal, because this a special type of coal. They call it high metallurgical coal, meaning it's higher in carbon and lower in moisture than thermal coal, which we use for fuel and heat. High met coal is some of the best in the world to turn into iron and steel.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

That's the pride that I think that people in West Virginia must feel for having actually been the power source behind the development of. Of iron and steel in this country, which meant westward movement. Building railroads, cities. That connection was completely lost on me until I went there.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Yeah. And it's still going today, so there is still that pride. The people who mine coal for generations, they still love it.

[Chris Saunders]

The company I work for, I know they export to China, South Korea. You have a lot of big steel mills in India. And then you have Ukraine. Right now. Ukraine was a big steel producer for Europe.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Yeah. And they're buying us coal.

[Chris Saunders]

Yes.

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah.

[Chris Saunders]

Because again, you have the best coal in the world to make steel.

[Ana Gonzalez]

The culture of coal mining is baked into West Virginia, but it's from another time when more people could get coal jobs. The mines themselves have become more automated and mechanized. The work is different, and they need fewer workers, even though coal is still being used to make everything from electric cars to solar panels and housing. As we drive deeper down Route 3, the towns get smaller. We see abandoned company stores and downtown ghostlands.

[Chris Saunders]

This was the old grade school, all right. During the explosion, they were lined up from there on both sides of the road.

[Ana Gonzalez]

He's talking about TV reporters from CNN and other outlets.

[Chris Saunders]

Yep. All the way down. Yeah, that's where. Where I had to drive through them every day. They would start right there.

[Ana Gonzalez]

What those news outlets recovering after the break.

[Additional Interviewee (possibly a coal miner or local resident)]

Hey, I'm Molly Webster and this is an ad by BetterHelp. So it happens every year. The seasons are changing, the days are getting shorter, and basically, once it becomes dark outside of my window, I feel like the rest of the world disappears and I'm just alone and there's nothing left to do but watch television. This November, Better Help is asking everyone to reach out to our people. That could be your family, your friends, your neighbors, and to resist this call of the cocoon. And yeah, reaching out can take some courage. I've got text messages from January I haven't responded to. And you know what? I'm going to write them back right now. Hi, sorry I've been missing. How are you? Why don't we all do this sooner? Therapy is the same way. BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. You just fill out a short questionnaire and they find a licensed therapist who they think you'll like. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com Radiolab that's betterhelp.com Radiolab.

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[Latif Nasser]

Radiolab is supported by Capital One banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that Radiolab is his favorite podcast too. Oh really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com Bank Capital One NA Member FDIC.

[Ana Gonzalez]

This is our common nature. I'm Ana before the break, coal miner Chris Saunders was taking us on a road trip all along Route 3 in West Virginia. And now we've reached our destination.

[Chris Saunders]

Now look on top of the hill right here and you see where the tube went in? That's the coal seam right there.

[Ana Gonzalez]

We pull off the road and park on the gravel beneath a long metal tube connecting one mountain to another. It's the conveyor belt that transported coal between mining operations.

[Chris Saunders]

I don't know if you can see the black on top of the hill, then you use have other seams below it. But that's the Eagle Seam that we mined.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Seams are layers in the earth where the coal is. It's where the mines are set up to extract the coal. And until I saw this, I didn't really understand how modern coal mining worked. I thought it was still like Kathy's grandfathers described, 30 inches tall and picked out with hand tools. This mine, the Upper Big Branch Mine, is a colossal compound in the hills. Upper Big Branch used to be one of West Virginia's largest coal producers. It was owned by Massey Energy, a huge name in coal for decades. And even as there were more safety regulations placed on mining, Massey was consistently cited and fined for not following them. The heavy machinery used today to dig into coal seams brings up More and more coal dust, which suspended in air, is explosive. In a perfect world, coal dust is blown out of the mines with giant ventilation systems. But nothing is perfect. On April 5, 2010, a little after 3pm, one of the teams at Upper Big Branch burrowed into a pocket of methane gas that exploded and ignited the unventilated coal dust.

[Chris Saunders]

I was underground. I was a section boss that evening and it was just a crazy evening outside. You could see this storm coming in and we was doing our safety meeting about the time the explosion hit. I heard Everett telling Leon it's bad. I said Leon, what's going on? He said been an explosion. He said 32 people could be dead or trapped. He said don't say nothing yet, I don't want to cause panic.

[Ana Gonzalez]

But the news got out.

[Chris Saunders]

And see they actually suffocated. Everything pulls out of the air and they was all like packed in there, you know, like instantly. You done dropped down to 15, 16% oxygen.

[Latif Nasser]

These are frenzy.

[Chris Saunders]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lost a lot of friends. Yeah. Knew every one of them.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

I'm sorry about that.

[Chris Saunders]

Yeah, yeah. 29 people that day.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Chris has led us to a makeshift monument. 29 hard hats sit on 29 crosses. Family and friends have placed Christmas trees in lunch pails, necklaces, bottles of liquor next to the names of their loved ones killed in the explosion.

[Chris Saunders]

I actually worked with Joel Robert Clark, Steve Hara, we called him Head Maynard Willingham Persinger and Spanky. Me and Spanky was close. Only two people lived. Mousey. But he's his mind I guess. The lack of oxygen. Oxygen. Then another boy named Bennett, he, he doing fine. He was younger.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Like losing this many people. Was that fear ever there when you went into it?

[Chris Saunders]

Oh yeah. After this.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

Yeah.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Yeah. But before this, did you ever think this was possible?

[Chris Saunders]

No, you don't. Like I say, you get complacent. You never think about no disasters like this.

[Ana Gonzalez]

The Upper Big Branch explosion was the worst mine disaster in the United States in 40 years. In its aftermath, the families of the miners who died were thrust into the headlines of national news cycles. Meanwhile, they had 29 funerals to plan and attend. And 29 families had to face a new reality and begin rebuilding their lives. The surviving miners like Chris had to show up for work the very next day.

[Chris Saunders]

Why didn't we just take at least a day? Yeah, for respect. At that time, you know, far as I guess in the corporate mind, well, we don't want to admit that we done nothing wrong. Buddy, you already in this now you might as well just shut down, regroup. Yeah, you know, 29 people dead. Regardless who wrong, let's show some type of respect. And that always bothered me, it still bothers me because if I was a CEO of a company, that's what we would have done. Regardless who wrong, who right, what happened, you know, we, we going to hash that out later. These people, the lost friends, family, regardless, let's show some kind of compassion.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Chris never speaks too harshly about his employer. He's careful to toe the line. His life, his livelihood, his identity as a coal miner would all be at risk. But Crystal Good can speak up.

[Diane Williams]

The poem came, but it came. What you know about black diamonds? Black diamonds, black diamonds.

[Chris Saunders]

Hey, hey, hey, hey.

[Ana Gonzalez]

For like two years. Whatcha know about black diamonds?

[Diane Williams]

So I just walk around the house singing just that, right? Black diamonds, black diamonds.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Crystal is a writer, an activist, and a West Virginian who watched the news of Upper Big Branch as it played out on TV.

[Diane Williams]

Black diamonds form on days like April 5, 2010, the day that started, just like all the other days, the other days, just like all the days, the hundreds of days that the earth fell in on miners, trapping them underground with nothing but their prayers. This time, on April 5, 2010, 29 men died in what they call a mine disaster. So much of the Upper Brick Branch was like national news organizations. Seeing black people on the news and being like, wait a minute, black coal miners, like this country doesn't even know about the history, you know, the labor of black men in West Virginia and the families, you know, the injustice of.

[Ana Gonzalez]

It all, stuck with her. West Virginia, a place where people feel invisible on a national platform for a disaster. She watched some Massey executives pay fines and go to jail. And she talked to the widows of miners who never got a chance to tell their side of the story.

[Diane Williams]

When every coal miner's wife sheds a tear, there comes the pressure. Compacted, compacted, compacted, and every.

[Ana Gonzalez]

This is her performing the poem next to the new river.

[Diane Williams]

Industrial homicide, homicide, homicide. Dead 29 miners. Black diamonds, black diamonds in pages where black ink fades until somebody digs and some brave heart will always hear the call and dig deep inside the earth so that millions and millions of years from now, they will hold up and marvel at our diamonds and wonder at their priceless, priceless love formed by the pressure, the pressure, the pressure and the.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Salt of her tears. Crystal has performed this poem on the steps of the West Virginia Capitol. She's performed it on stage and among people, and whenever she performs it, people cry. The biggest thing I've learned about West Virginia Is. Is just how much coal seeped out of these hills and into people's lives. Everyone has a story about how coal has either enriched their lives or taken from them. And a lot of the time, it's a mixture of both. Crystal knows that as a writer and a poet, she has almost the responsibility to articulate those complex emotions that people aren't always able to express themselves. And part of that responsibility comes from, yes, identifying as an artist, but the other part comes from identifying as black.

[Diane Williams]

In Appalachia, West Virginia is 3% black. It's survival. Tell me how you're gonna survive in a coal mine. Talking about, you know, black power and, you know, fuck the police and, you know, so I think people have to survive here, right?

[Ana Gonzalez]

Like Zora and like Chris. There are days where it's harder for Crystal to find the energy to survive here. Like the day that she woke up to find that a coal company had poisoned her water supply and it stunk the whole air.

[Diane Williams]

Everything smelled like licorice. Ugh, I can't even eat licorice to this day. It makes me sick just even thinking about it.

[Ana Gonzalez]

After weeks of buying water to drink and shower and cook, Crystal found a dinner to sue the company, and she won.

[Diane Williams]

And then folks got their checks, which weren't much. I think people might have got 500. It just kind of made me think, what really is a win?

[Ana Gonzalez]

Like it wasn't worth it.

[Diane Williams]

I lost all of my friends.

[Ana Gonzalez]

They all left. A lot of Crystal's friends who could leave West Virginia did because of the fear that this could happen again. Crystal stayed, but now it's been over 10 years and she's tired of fighting.

[Diane Williams]

I only have so much energy and I only have so much time on this planet. And living in West Virginia, the statistics you die earlier.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Like, the statistics suck. West Virginia's life expectancy is the second lowest in the nation. Its population is declining faster than ever any other US State. That's because of new epidemics like drugs, but also old ones like poverty and the pollution from coal. If Chris Saunders and Crystal Good met, they probably would disagree on some core things. But they're also both part of that 3% of black West Virginians who have chosen to stay in this place despite the statistics, the disasters, and the daily grind of finding a way through. Because outside of all of that, West Virginia is more than coal. And that's where Crystal finds her strength.

[Diane Williams]

You know, the coal barons are going to coal baron, but maybe the coal barons couldn't coal baron so hard. If we actually kind of built our everyday lives and our school systems and our nursing homes and everything, you know, with nature in mind. And I have no idea how to do this or what I'm talking about, but what I can do is take another group of kids down the new river next year and the next year and the next year.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

Absolutely. I mean, the natural world is all energy. It's the transfer of energy and life takes place. That's the miracle.

[Ana Gonzalez]

I asked yo yo about how he finds the energy to keep going in his life. When the days feel long, where does he go in the world or in his mind to get through and still perform and be Yo Yo Ma for the world. And it turns out he also goes to a place in the mountains.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

There is a stream. The sound of a rustling brook is maybe one of the most beautiful sounds in the world. And you could see the stars. I saw birds, some blue jays. There was a cardinal. I was listening to the chirping, the tweeting, and it was the most beautiful music in the world. So I carry this memory. It stays there. That will help me get through what I need to get through. I think about really the whole cycle of living. It's inseparable that we are part of this world. We are part of nature, we are part of the stars, we are part of the earth. And I used to not think that, but I now do think that more and more.

[Chris Saunders]

And let's go forward five strokes again.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Greetings. Greetings, recording friends. I'm wearing the newest fur fashion. I got the new blanket. What did we just do? Water rafting.

[Additional Interviewee (possibly a coal miner or local resident)]

And I'm cold.

[Ana Gonzalez]

It's early fall on the new River. There are three big blue whitewater rafts filled with kids from a middle school program called Step by Step. So who am I talking to? You're talking to Josiah and who else? My name is Brandon. Lisa Israel. Angel, you ever been whitewater rafting before? No, this is my first time. I'm in one raft. Crystal.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

Good.

[Ana Gonzalez]

The poet is on another. And we're all paddling down the new river to meet up with Yo Yo.

[Chris Saunders]

Yo Yo. Are you on a first name bassist?

[Yo-Yo Ma]

Yeah.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Yo yo is waiting on the banks of the river with his cello and he begins to play Bach cello suite number one, Prelude in G major, obviously.

[Chris Saunders]

I told you there was a cellist everywhere.

[Ana Gonzalez]

After he finished playing, yo yo hopped on one of the rafts and challenged everybody to a race. Well, of course you were like, yelling at. You were like, coach yo yo, like, come on, everybody.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

I think we lost, but that's okay. We had such a good time. We had such a good time. There's nothing like being in nature and doing something participatory and that breaks the ice. And the kids were so different from before and after.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Oh, yeah, big time. At the end, a couple of them performed a song that they wrote from scratch.

[Latif Nasser]

A beat.

[Chris Saunders]

Next time they got all that.

[Ana Gonzalez]

I've been making that money. I've been making it since I was 10. That's the main part of the chorus.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

It's great, it's fantastic. And that's how it comes out, right? You're relaxed enough, you're safe enough, and it's fantastic, it's goofy, it's fun. And guess what? It was memorable. You still remember it.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Oh, yeah. The sun set and we made it off the river to get a good West Virginia dinner of barbecue and Mac and cheese. Under the string lights of a riverside pavilion, there's a mix of river guides and kids of all ages fixing plates and chit chatting. It's our last night in West Virginia, so a lot of familiar faces have come out to join in on the food and get a little song going.

[Chris Saunders]

You ready, maestro?

[Yo-Yo Ma]

I'm no maestro. I'm not sure I'm ready.

[Chris Saunders]

All right, well, let's see if we can get it.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

1, 2, 1, 2, 3.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Banjo player Dom Flemons is here playing this tune that he wrote with Yo Yo. And pretty soon he switches to an old line dancing song.

[Chris Saunders]

This is a piece of called Great Big Eight here.

[Ana Gonzalez]

And starts calling dances.

[Chris Saunders]

When I used to play this one with Joe, he would kick his head back and he'd do a couple of the square dance calls and he'd go like this. Baby gate boy.

[Yo-Yo Ma]

We need one another in order to function and survive and thrive. We need one another and we need to do things together in order to break the ice and to break the cycle of fear, of mistrust and territoriality. We build up these walls when we're kind of scared and when we're on the water together and we're doing something afterwards, it's. It's different.

[Chris Saunders]

Thank you all so much.

[Ana Gonzalez]

There was time for one more song.

[Kathy Mattea]

Oh, yeah, get a harmonica, y'.

[Diane Williams]

All.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Any guesses?

[Kathy Mattea]

So this would be like the national anthem for West Virginia, except that all the geographical references are wrong. People were requesting it this afternoon and it's just always like a great. It's a great opportunity for everyone to sing along.

[Ana Gonzalez]

If I wanted to get to know West Virginia, I think this is a good start. It's singing the words to take Me, home, country roads. Even though I know they're not technically right, because it feels good to sing by a river with people who love this state and will continue to love it even through disaster and heartbreak, and who all share a future in this place if they keep fighting for it. A notable absence, though, was Chris and his mom, Zora.

[Chris Saunders]

Hello?

[Ana Gonzalez]

Hey, Chris, it's Anna from the podcast. Yeah, I'm just calling because I was just so sad to hear about your mom, and I just wanted to see how you're doing. A few weeks after recording with Chris, he texted me and said his mom, Zora, had died.

[Chris Saunders]

You do, Mama. She done everything her way. And so she told us all she was ready to go. She said, jesus got my house ready. That's what she told us. We read her lips and my sister sung tour. She patted her foot and just smiled and she looked at me and say, ain't you gotta go to work? No.

[Additional Interviewee (possibly a coal miner or local resident)]

Yeah.

[Chris Saunders]

Yeah. So, I mean.

[Ana Gonzalez]

What did your sister sing to her?

[Chris Saunders]

She liked this one song. Jesus on the Main Line Tell him what you want if you need a healing Tell him what you want if you need a miracle Tell him what you want well, it was one of our favorite songs. Yeah. Jesus on the main line Call him up call him up Tell him what you want yeah, that was one of her songs.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Are you having services for her?

[Chris Saunders]

Yes, yes, and I'm gonna work up until Monday anyway. I know you probably think I'm crazy.

[Ana Gonzalez]

You can't get time off.

[Chris Saunders]

Yeah, but I'm.

[Kathy Mattea]

I'm.

[Chris Saunders]

They're only gonna give me three days, so I'm gonna work tonight, tomorrow, and then Monday morning, I won't go back. My boss is like, I never seen nobody like you. He said, you all right? You know, because they worry about me getting hurt or something, too.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Yeah.

[Chris Saunders]

And I said, no, I'm fine. I said, I talked to my mom. I said, my mom loved me, and I love her. I said, and we just coal miners, you know?

[Ana Gonzalez]

Chris told me that when the funeral parlor found out his mom was a coal miner, they gave him a discount. And they're talking about building a monument to her in the cemetery.

[Chris Saunders]

And now for this one here, there's going to be one line that comes up a whole bunch. We are almost down to the shore and I'm just going to run it one time so you can hear it. We are almost down to the show let's try it one time. We are, we are almost down to the shore Moses died on the mountaintop Praise the Lord said Moses heart We.

[Ana Gonzalez]

Are old I want to end with this song that Dom Fleming sang. On the banks of the New river by that old coal mine where we ate pepperoni rolls. He sang it to me and yo yo and Kathy Matea, to Kristen, Crystal and Tezora. He found this song in the Library of Congress. Recorded by John Lomax. It was written and performed by a black musician named Jimmy Strothers.

[Chris Saunders]

He worked in a coal mine outside of Baltimore. He was caught in an accident. He was blinded by it. And he met John Lomax about a year after he had gone blind. And that was the one recording they had made of the that song. We are Almost down to the shore Peter Peter out on the sea Drop your nets and follow me we are.

[Latif Nasser]

Almost.

[Chris Saunders]

Down to the show despite it.

[Ana Gonzalez]

All, Cole led us here to this sweet moment along the New River. And maybe the lyrics of this song aren't quite true either. Not literally, but the feeling I get every time I hear it transcends that. I go back to the hills and the river I see Zora holding her daughter's hand I see Chris and Crystal and the kids on that raft Racing yo yo down the river I see a place where the river flows clean under cloudlessness skies and the country roads take everybody home Fight on, fight on.

[Chris Saunders]

Children don't turn back we are all mo's down to the shore.

[Ana Gonzalez]

That'S Dom Fleming singing us out. Our Common Nature is a production of WNYC and Sound Postings, hosted by me, Ana Gonzalez, produced by Alan Gofinski with editing from Pearl Marvel. Sound design and episode music by Alan Gofinski mixed by Joe Plord. Fact checking by Anna Alvarado. Our executive producers are Emily Botin, Ben Mandelkern, Sophie Shackleton and Jonathan Bayes. Our advisors are Mira Burton, Tonic Kamaka Diaz, Kelly Libby and Chris Newell. Music in this episode by Kathy Mattea and Dom Flemons. If you want to hear a beautiful studio recording of We Are Almost down to the Shore, check out Dom's album Traveling Wildfire. Special thanks to Matt Ike for letting me use his phone to record on a river raft. To Leslie Baker at the Beckley Coal Mine and Exhibition Museum and to New River Gorge National Park. And if you want to listen to more music from this series, you can check out the Our Common Nature EP featuring Yo yo playing with Eric Mingus, Jen Kreisberg and an Icelandic choir. Now available on all streaming platforms. This podcast was inspired by a project of the same name conceived by Yo Yo Ma in Sound Postings with creative direction by Sophie Shackleton. In collaboration with partners all over the world. Our common nature is made possible with support from Emerson Collective and Tambourine Philanthropies. Hi, I'm cordelia and I'm from new york city and here are the staff credits. Radiolab is hosted by lulu miller and latif nasser. Soren wheeler is our executive editor. Sarah sandbach is our executive director. Our managing editor is pat walters. Dylan keefe is our director of sound design. Our staff includes simon adler, jeremy bloom, w. Harry fortuna, david gable, maria paz, gutierrez, sindhu, jannasan vandan, matt kielse, mona maggavkar, annie mcewen, alex neeson, sara khari, anissa vitsa, arianne wack, molly webster, and jessica young, with help from rebecca rand. Our fact checkers are diane kelly, emily krieger, ana pujol mazzini, and natalie middleson. Hi, I'm Adena.

[Diane Williams]

I'm calling from Greensburg. Leadership support for Radiolab's science programming is provided by the Simons foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

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