Radiolab: "Race"

Date: December 15, 2008
Hosts: Jad Abumrad & Robert Krulwich
Producer: WNYC Studios

Overview

This Radiolab episode dives into the science and lived reality of race: Is it a biological reality or a social construct? Through investigative reportage, personal stories, and candid conversation, the team unpacks what modern genetics can — and cannot — tell us about race, how these concepts play out in everyday life, and why the question remains so fraught. From the mapping of the human genome to forensics labs, classrooms, hospitals, and even the morgue in Baghdad, the episode asks: What exactly can science reveal about race, and how do those revelations fit with our experiences and assumptions?

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Race and the Human Genome: “The Moment Race Died”

• [02:00] The episode opens with President Bill Clinton announcing the completion of the Human Genome Project in 2000, flanked by Drs. Francis Collins and Craig Venter.
  • The message: At the level of DNA, there is no scientific basis for dividing humanity into races.
• Yet, a few years later, genetic differences tied to ancestry seem important in some medical and forensic contexts.

Notable Quote:

“The concept of race has no genetic or scientific basis. It’s just not there.” — President Bill Clinton ([03:45])

2. Rethinking by Scientists

• [05:30] Francis Collins, once unequivocal about the nonexistence of race in genetics, admits in a later paper that genetic variation can “be used to make a reasonably accurate prediction of geographical origins.”
• NPR’s Nell Greenfieldboyce translates:
  • “It is sort of true that race has something to do with biology.” ([07:40])

3. Forensics and Ancestry Testing: The Baton Rouge Case

• [09:00] The team investigates a Louisiana serial killer hunt in the early 2000s.
  • Police used Tony Frudakis’ DNA Print technology to infer “race” of a suspect.
  • The DNA suggested 90% African ancestry, redirecting the police hunt and ultimately identifying the killer.
• However, the test does not “read” race directly:
  • It identifies ancestry via DNA markers — “souvenirs” left by human migrations.
  • The tests are crude, and categories (e.g., “European”) are very broad.
• Jad Abumrad’s own DNA test reveals:
  • 94% “European,” 5% East Asian, 1% Native American, 0% Sub-Saharan African. But “European” includes Lebanon and the Middle East in this calculation.

Key Exchange:

“So if I find out that Jad Abumrad is European, then I’m looking for someone who could be a huge range.” ([29:00])

• Real aptitude:
  • Test can predict some features like eye color from DNA, but not things like skin tone or facial characteristics directly.

4. Race in Practice: Identity and DNA Results

• [34:00] The story of Wayne Joseph, a lifelong Black educator/essayist, who takes a DNA ancestry test and finds:
  • 57% Indo-European, 39% Native American, 4% Asian, 0% African.
  • This result confounds family, spouse, and his self-identity:
    • “I’ve lived 50 years as a black man and I have no African genetically.”
    • His wife: “What do you mean you’re a black man? I defied my mother to marry you. You’ve got to be black.” ([36:00-39:00])

5. Race and Medicine: The Bidil Debate

• [42:00] Dr. Jay Cohn’s heart drug, Bidil, and the FDA’s first approval for a “racialized drug” (meant for Black patients).
  • The original studies showed a big improvement in Black patients, but the study’s scope was limited.
• Debate:
  • Is using race in medicine helpful for saving lives or does it reinforce unscientific categories?
  • Critics raise concerns about essentializing race and missing nuance:
    • Dr. Cohn: “If you know that a group of people are likely to get sick in a certain way, then you should target them and do them.”
    • Law professor (paraphrased): “I’d be terrified about a doctor making a diagnosis like that based on their view of me as belonging to a particular racial category.” ([53:00])
• Hypertension Paradox:
  • U.S. Black populations have higher hypertension, but globally, Germany, Finland, and Russia have the highest rates (mostly white populations), while Nigeria has the lowest.
  • Suggests social and diet factors rather than genetics underpin many “racial” medical disparities.
    • “How many black people are in Russia?” — “Seven, probably seven.” ([58:00])

6. Sports and Perceptions: The Malcolm Gladwell Story

• [64:00] Writer Malcolm Gladwell recounts childhood in Jamaican-dominated Ontario track and field.
  • Internalized the narrative: “If you weren’t Jamaican, it was hopeless.”
  • As an adult, he credits much more to personal choice, family background, and culture than to genetics in explaining performance.

Notable Quote:

“That’s not the critical difference between me and Tiger Woods… Tiger gets up at 5 in the morning and hits 10,000 golf balls before breakfast. That’s the difference.” — Malcolm Gladwell ([70:20])

7. Classroom Exercise: Sorting People by Race

• [74:00] Visiting a diverse New York high school, kids attempt to guess people’s race from photographs.
  • They get 3 of 8 right — mostly wrong.
  • One student finds the exercise “retarded… stupid.”
  • Most identify by nation or mixed heritage, not by broad racial categories.

8. Baghdad Story: Life-and-Death “Race”

• [80:00] The episode closes with a harrowing personal account from Ali Abbas, an Iraqi journalist, describing how sectarian identity (Sunni vs. Shia)—sometimes as fine as a single letter in a name—became a matter of survival.
  • In the U.S., New Yorkers see race as fluid and contextual.
  • In Baghdad, categories once meaningless became deadly markers.

Notable Quote:

“How can this country hold them together?” — Ali Abbas, reflecting on U.S. diversity after fleeing violence in Iraq ([89:00])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “The concept of race has no genetic or scientific basis. It’s just not there.” — President Clinton ([03:45])
• “It is sort of true that race has something to do with biology.” — Nell Greenfieldboyce ([07:40])
• “So if I find out that Jad Abumrad is European, then I’m looking for someone who could be a huge range.” — Jad Abumrad ([29:00])
• “I’ve lived 50 years as a black man and I have no African genetically.” — Wayne Joseph ([37:10])
• “I’d be terrified about a doctor making a diagnosis like that based on their view of me as belonging to a particular racial category.” — Law professor ([53:00])
• “Germany, actually Finland, Poland and Russia are even worse [for hypertension rates].” — Richard Cooper ([58:00])
• “That’s not the critical difference between me and Tiger Woods… Tiger gets up at 5 in the morning and hits 10,000 golf balls before breakfast.” — Malcolm Gladwell ([70:20])
• “How can this country hold them together?” — Ali Abbas ([89:00])

Important Segment Timestamps

• [02:00] Clinton and the Human Genome Project
• [09:00] Forensic DNA and the Baton Rouge serial killer
• [24:00] Exploring ancestry testing and DNA “souvenirs”
• [34:00] Wayne Joseph’s DNA identity crisis
• [42:00] The Bidil debate — medicine and racialized drugs
• [53:00] Medical arguments about race and health
• [58:00] Hypertension rates worldwide
• [64:00] Malcolm Gladwell on sports and race
• [74:00] NYC classroom: kids sort faces by “race”
• [80:00] Ali Abbas on the deadly stakes of identity in Baghdad

Closing Thoughts & Takeaways

• Science’s Verdict: Genetic distinctions by race are extremely slight and do not match up neatly to social categories.
• Lived Reality: Race still powerfully shapes experiences, opportunities, culture, and even life-or-death situations—even when scientific evidence for biological categories is weak or misleading.
• Medical and Legal Complexity: Racial categories in healthcare can help but also hurt, and often miss critical nuances.
• Social Fluidity: In persisting social contexts—schools, New York subways, global migrations—race is less fixed and more situational and performative than most acknowledge.
• Final Word:
  • “Once you drop the science part of race and think of it as just a way of sorting people into us’s and thems, then it gets interesting—or at the very least, more complicated.” — Robert Krulwich ([77:00])

For further inquiry, visit:
Radiolab Race Episode Page
(Running time: approx. 90 minutes)

This summary omits all advertising, station IDs, and non-content segments to focus solely on substantive discussion.