Radiolab Presents: On the Media – Busted, America’s Poverty Myths
Radiolab / WNYC Studios
Airdate: January 18, 2017

Episode Overview

This episode is a special collaboration where Radiolab features On the Media’s acclaimed series “Busted: America’s Poverty Myths.” Hosts Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich invite Brooke Gladstone to discuss and play excerpts from On the Media’s five-part investigation into the prevailing myths about poverty in the United States. The conversation focuses primarily on two overarching myths:

• The Myth of Upward Mobility (the “Bootstrap” narrative)
• The Myth of the Social Safety Net

With rich storytelling, data, and voices of those who have experienced poverty first-hand, the episode challenges listeners to re-examine deeply held assumptions about poverty, meritocracy, and the support structures in American society.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Origin of the “Rags to Riches” Myth (04:07–07:47)

• Ben Franklin’s Narrative
  Brooke Gladstone and historian Jill Lepore discuss how Benjamin Franklin’s life and autobiography laid the foundation for the American “rags to riches” myth—the idea that anyone can surmount humble beginnings through ambition and hard work.
  • Franklin, born poor, literally turned “rags into riches” by establishing paper mills and earning a license to print currency in colonial America. (04:25–05:09)
  • His autobiography offers a template for the self-made man, erasing the roles of those who helped or depended on him—most notably his sister Jane Franklin, whose life “endures the fate that almost everyone else in the 18th century does: She remains in the station to which she was born.” (07:12)
• Quote:
  “The historical record is asymmetrical. We know so much more about people who thrive and so little about the people who don’t thrive.”
  — Jill Lepore (07:47)

2. The Endurance and Illusion of Upward Mobility (08:24–11:42)

• Political Uses of the Myth
  Brooke reviews how American politicians routinely invoke the “self-made” narrative, citing family backgrounds of struggle regardless of political party.
  Examples: Andrew Jackson, Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, Gephardt, Edwards, Obama.
• Media Satire
  Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, and The Daily Show mock the omnipresence and hollowness of “bootstrap” stories in politics. (09:30)
• The Actual Numbers on Mobility
  The U.S. is not exceptional in upward mobility; in fact, it lags behind comparable countries:
  • Only about 7.5% of Americans born in the bottom quintile move to the top (11:01), versus nearly double that in Canada and Denmark (11:11–11:25).
  • Mobility is highly geographic—better in San Jose, Seattle, Salt Lake City (12:09–12:17), much worse in cities like Memphis or Charlotte (~3–4%).
  • Quote:
    “Your likelihood of moving up is based on where you are even more than who you are.”
    — Brooke Gladstone (12:40)

3. The Impact of Segregation, Inequality, and Luck (12:52–19:31)

• Raj Chetty’s Research (12:52–13:25)
  Upward mobility correlates strongly with segregation, income inequality, single-parent households, poor schooling, and lack of social cohesion.
• Systemic Barriers to Moving Up
  • Housing vouchers exist but are hard to obtain and landlords can refuse them, so many families remain trapped. (13:36)
  • Martin Luther King’s powerful analogy (14:23–16:03): historic government support for whites versus the lack thereof for black families.
    • Quote:
      “It is a cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps.”
      — Martin Luther King, Jr. (15:36)
• Discrimination in Opportunity
  • Resume studies show "white" names yield more callbacks (16:03), even more so than criminal records for black applicants.
  • Surveys: Wealthy people credit hard work over luck (16:40).
  • Robert Frank (17:38–19:31) challenges Fox News host who insists luck is irrelevant, illustrating that success stories often downplay random chance.
    • Quote:
      “Success may also hang on the month or location of your birth, not to mention the wealth you’re born with.”
      — Brooke Gladstone (16:58)

4. Psychological and Societal Effects of the Myth (19:31–21:06)

• The Danger in Ignoring Luck
  Not acknowledging the role of fortune fosters less gratitude and less willingness to help others.
• Personal Reflection
  Brooke shares her story: though she experienced hardship, she was always sure she’d go to college—a sign of hidden privilege.
  • Quote:
    “Hard work is real, but bootstraps are bunk and social mobility a myth. Unless a nation chooses to build the infrastructure, the roads on which a person can move upward, you pretty much can’t get there from here.”
    — Brooke Gladstone (20:45)

Segment 2: The Myth of the Safety Net (24:38–36:45)

1. Life on a Precarious Margin: Margaret Smith’s Story (26:40–33:05)

• Personal Catastrophe
  Margaret, single mom of six, becomes homeless after her teen son is shot (27:03). She is evicted not for late payment—but because a crime occurred on her property (28:10). She subsequently loses her job and the family becomes scattered.
• No Effective Safety Net
  Although she has health insurance and food stamps, she's out of time-limited cash assistance. A string of health crises and strict policies have left no room for recovery. (31:15)
• Margaret’s Perspective
  She describes the high costs of being poor: higher prices, no margin for emergencies, constant threat of downward spiral.
  • Quote:
    “You might be on top of the world tomorrow, but it can end for you the next day. And you’ll go through poverty—what we’re going through.”
    — Margaret Smith (32:35)

2. Structural Disadvantages of Poverty (33:05–34:44)

• Poverty Is Expensive
  Brooke and James Baldwin illustrate how the poor pay more for basic needs—food, rent, transportation, services—due to lack of options and punitive policies.
  • “Anyone who has ever struggled with poverty knows how extremely expensive it is to be poor.”
    — James Baldwin (33:05)
• The “treadmill” of poverty, where “nothing you have done has helped you to escape the trap.”

3. Systemic Failures and the Limits of Safety (34:44–36:45)

• Zero Margin for Error
  Jad and Robert reflect on how a single disruptive event can lead to immediate ruin for families with little or no cushion—a reality for many Americans but largely invisible to those who buy into the meritocracy myth.
• Eviction Policies
  Brooke explains the policy linking any police action at a residence to forced eviction, a mechanism consistently used against families like Margaret’s.

Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “The historical record is asymmetrical. We know so much more about people who thrive and so little about the people who don’t thrive.” — Jill Lepore (07:47)
• “It is a cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps.” — Martin Luther King, Jr. (15:36)
• "Luck is not something you can mention in the presence of self made men." — E.B. White (16:40)
• “Hard work is real, but bootstraps are bunk and social mobility a myth. Unless a nation chooses to build the infrastructure...you pretty much can’t get there from here.” — Brooke Gladstone (20:45)
• “You might be on top of the world tomorrow, but it can end for you the next day. And you’ll go through poverty—what we’re going through.” — Margaret Smith (32:35)
• “Anyone who has ever struggled with poverty knows how extremely expensive it is to be poor.” — James Baldwin, quoted by Brooke Gladstone (33:05)

Important Timestamps

• 04:07–05:51 – Ben Franklin’s “rags to riches” and its literary legacy
• 07:47–09:30 – The persistence and exploitation of the “bootstrap” myth in American politics and culture
• 11:01–12:50 – Actual upward mobility rates in the U.S. versus other countries; geographic disparities
• 13:25–16:03 – Effects of segregation, discrimination, and policy on life chances (MLK speech)
• 16:03–19:31 – Studies on racial discrimination in hiring; the debate over luck versus hard work (Robert Frank/FOX News segment)
• 20:45 – Gladstone’s reflection: “bootstraps are bunk”
• 26:40–33:05 – Margaret Smith’s story: the collapse of the “safety net”
• 33:05–34:44 – The additional costs and burdens of poverty, James Baldwin’s commentary

Tone and Style

The episode weaves together historical research, contemporary policy analysis, personal narrative, and cultural critique, in the often wry, thoughtful, and sometimes emotional style that characterizes both Radiolab and On the Media. The personal storytelling and data-driven discussion is accessible, skeptical of received wisdom, and aimed at prompting listeners to reconsider American narratives around poverty and opportunity.

Final Note

For listeners looking to understand the real dynamics of poverty in America—the myths that shape our beliefs, the data that challenge them, and the lived experiences that often go unheard—this episode offers both pointed criticism and deep empathy. For the full multi-part series (“Busted: America’s Poverty Myths”), visit onthemedia.org.