Radiolab – "Rodney Versus Death"
Release Date: August 13, 2013
Hosts: Jad Abumrad, Robert Krulwich
Producers: Tim Howard
Guests: Ann and Gina Giese, Dr. Rodney Willoughby, Monica Murphy, Bill Wasik, Dr. Amy Gilbert, Dr. Sergio Recuenco, others

Overview

In this gripping Radiolab episode, the team delves into the story of Gina Giese, a young woman who became the first person known to survive clinical rabies without prior vaccination. The episode masterfully weaves together medical investigation, the nature of rabies, and humanity’s age-old struggle with the disease. It centers on Dr. Rodney Willoughby’s radical and controversial attempt to save Gina’s life, challenging rabies' near-mythical status as a universally fatal disease.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Gina’s Mysterious Illness & Diagnosis (02:12–07:09)

• Setting the Scene: Producer Tim Howard visits Ann Giese in Wisconsin to recount how her 15-year-old daughter, Gina, fell suddenly and inexplicably ill in 2004.
• Symptoms Progressed Rapidly: Gina experienced tingling, double vision, fatigue, involuntary muscle spasms, and slurred speech, eventually becoming almost comatose.
• The Crucial Detail: Ann reveals that Gina was bitten by a bat a month prior while trying to rescue it during church mass—an overlooked fact until her condition worsened.
• Diagnosis: Upon hearing about the bat bite, the pediatrician immediately suspects rabies, and Gina is rushed to a specialist.

"His face turned white. He walked out of that room. He says, I'll be right back. But he never told us what it was."
— Ann Giese, 05:36

The Fatality of Rabies (06:34–12:22)

• Expert Testimony: Dr. Rodney Willoughby, infectious disease consultant, describes rabies' horrors—both physical and psychological.
• Rabies is Almost Always Deadly: Public health experts Monica Murphy and Bill Wasik state the fatality rate is virtually 100% once symptoms appear.
• Historical Desperation: The show highlights centuries of failed 'cures,' including bizarre remedies like applying a rooster’s anus to bite wounds (08:57–09:56), reflecting sheer desperation.

"Of the percentage of people who come down with symptoms of rabies who die, it is the deadliest disease in the world."
— Bill Wasik, 06:51

• Viral mechanism: Rabies enters via nerves (not blood), crawling toward the brain at a slow but relentless pace. Vaccine is only effective if administered before symptoms.

Rodney’s Wild Idea: The Milwaukee Protocol (12:34–18:32)

• Desperation and Innovation: With no standard cure, Dr. Rodney Willoughby researches rabies’ effect on the brain, proposing that the virus disrupts rather than destroys neural function—possibly allowing for recovery if the immune system gets enough time.
• Induced Coma As Treatment: Rodney improvises, placing Gina into a medically-induced coma to "buy time" for her immune system to respond—a last-ditch, untested, and controversial plan.

“If you could buy Gina's immune system some time, enough time, you could clear the brain, and the brain would not be damaged.”
— Dr. Rodney Willoughby, 15:54

• Family’s Perspective: The decision is made under emotional duress, with Ann focusing only on the hope of survival.

Struggling Toward Recovery (17:04–21:39)

• A Long, Uncertain Wait: Gina is kept in a coma for multiple weeks; prayers and uncertainty fill the hospital room.
• Signs of Hope: After a week, Gina’s spinal fluid shows rising antibody levels; the immune system is fighting back.
• Awakening and Aftermath: Initially, Gina is locked-in—conscious but paralyzed—a moment Rodney calls "the worst day of my life" (19:13). Slowly, she regains movement.

“And it was the worst day of my life because it looked like she was probably going to survive, and we’d actually done worse than death."
— Dr. Rodney Willoughby, 19:13

• Recovery: Over months, Gina relearns to walk and talk, eventually returning to a near-normal life, retaining some impairments but developing a new appreciation for bats—her former nemesis.

Was It the Protocol or Gina? The Controversy (22:09–28:04)

• Replication Worldwide: The "Milwaukee Protocol" is attempted worldwide with mixed results—about five survivors out of thirty attempts (22:09–23:10).
• Are Some People 'Immunologically Special'?: Research in Peru finds some villagers have rabies antibodies but never got sick, hinting at rare natural resistance.
• Gina’s Unique Immunity?: Evidence emerges that all survivors had pre-existing antibodies, suggesting the protocol may only work—or is only tried—on people already mounting an immune response.

"They would say that the Milwaukee protocol should be discontinued and that we shouldn't be wasting time and money on it."
— Monica Murphy paraphrasing other researchers, 27:44

Scientific Uncertainty and Ethical Debate (28:04–30:07)

• Skepticism: Critics argue effort and resources are better spent vaccinating at-risk populations than experimenting with the Milwaukee Protocol, especially given its low success rate and unknown mechanism.
• Rodney’s Defense: Dr. Willoughby insists hope and continued innovation are vital—citing the evolution of cancer treatments as precedent for incremental progress.
• Current Status: He reports a 20% success rate for the protocol, far from a cure but better than the previous 0%.

"That's a lot better than zero."
— Dr. Rodney Willoughby, 30:05

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "You die, basically. You die? Yeah. Well, like what, all of the time? Some of the time. All of the time."
  — Jad Abumrad and Monica Murphy discuss the lethality of rabies (06:34–07:09)

• “Her brain activity looked great, and she had nice pupils, but physically, she did not move a muscle.”
  — Dr. Rodney Willoughby, on Gina's locked-in state (18:47)

• "She is the poster child for what became known as the Milwaukee Protocol."
  — Robert Krulwich, 21:53

• "It was almost as if they were immune to rabies. Huh."
  — Jad Abumrad, on findings in Peru (25:05)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:12–05:36: Gina’s symptoms and discovery of the bat bite
• 06:34–07:09: The certainty of death with rabies
• 08:57–09:56: Historical rabies “cures”
• 12:34–18:32: Dr. Willoughby’s decision for induced coma & beginning of Milwaukee Protocol
• 18:44–21:39: Gina’s awakening, slow recovery, and psychological impact
• 22:09–23:10: The protocol's global application and success rates
• 23:28–25:55: Studies on natural rabies immunity (Peru, Texas cases)
• 27:44–28:15: Criticism of continued Milwaukee Protocol use
• 29:18–30:07: Rodney on the value and ethics of continued innovation

Conclusion

"Rodney Versus Death" is an exploration of medical bravery, the unpredictability of science, and the thin line between hope and hype. The episode leaves listeners questioning assumptions about what’s “impossible,” highlighting how even a deadly disease like rabies can have cracks in its certainty of death. Whether Gina survived due to Rodney’s bold intervention or an unusual immune response, her story—and Rodney’s willingness to try—marks a turning point in humanity’s fight with one of nature’s most feared killers.

"Because whether or not you think that he saved her life or she saved her own life, the fact is that at least now we know that rabies isn't quite the killer that we once thought it was. He took it off of its throne of death, even if, you know, just a little bit, maybe."
— Jad Abumrad, 30:55