Radiolab: "Shots Fired: Part 1" — Detailed Episode Summary

Podcast: Radiolab
Episode: Shots Fired: Part 1
Date: March 17, 2017
Hosts: Jad Abumrad, Robert Krulwich
Guests/Contributors: Ben Montgomery (Tampa Bay Times reporter), Matt Kilty (producer), Mike Chitwood (Daytona Beach Police Chief), Crystal Brown, Natasha Clemens, Geneva Reed-Veal, and others

Overview: Main Theme & Purpose

This episode investigates police shootings in Florida, spurred by the lack of comprehensive national data. Reporter Ben Montgomery builds the most thorough database of police shootings in Florida’s history and the Radiolab team follows both the numbers and the lives behind them. Through interviews, community events, and law enforcement perspectives, the episode explores the personal and systemic impacts of police violence, the mothers and families affected, and the nuances of policing, bias, and hope for change.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Track Police Shootings? The Data Void

• Background: In the wake of high-profile police shootings (e.g., Mike Brown in Ferguson), there was widespread realization that no comprehensive U.S. database exists tracking deadly force by police ([01:01]–[02:22]).
• Ben Montgomery’s Project: Ben decides to focus on Florida, using its strong public records laws to reach out to every police precinct for data ([02:55]–[03:20]).
• Method & Scope: Amassed 5,000+ pages, 388 departments, covering 831 shootings from 2009-2014 ([03:45]–[04:12]).

2. Findings: What the Numbers Reveal

• Steady Numbers: Police shootings in Florida have held steady—about 130 per year—contradicting public perception that the problem is escalating ([05:23]–[05:38]).
  • Ben: "The numbers are flat." ([05:23])
• Mental Illness: About a third of cases involve someone diagnosed as mentally ill, often including “suicide by cop” scenarios ([06:02]–[06:47]).
• Racial Disparities: 40% of those shot are Black, despite African-Americans comprising only about 17% of Florida’s population—making them four times as likely to be shot as whites ([07:12]–[07:37]).
• Demographics of Incidents: 50.9% of those shot were carrying a firearm, 9% a blade; 70% involved resisting arrest ([07:44]–[07:52]).
• Limits of Data: Numbers provide clarity but lack depth—each incident is deeply personal and involves immense individual tragedy ([08:09]–[09:16]).

3. Individual Stories: From Numbers to Faces

• Community Gathering: Matt Kilty visits the “Third Anniversary Celebration” for Marlon Brown, an unarmed Black man killed by police, held at a Shrine Club in DeLand, Florida ([09:45]–[10:53]).
• Grieving Networks: What appeared to be a local memorial was actually a network—a support system for hundreds of mothers who have lost children to police violence ([12:17]–[13:45]).
  • Natasha Clemens: "I've met about 400 other mothers who's lost their children." ([13:37])
• Geneva Reed-Veal: Mother of Sandra Bland, becomes a central presence, highlighting the transformation of these women into national advocates—the “Mothers of the Movement” ([16:02]–[17:56]).

Memorable Scene

• Support & Therapy: The event transitions from solemn support (“there was no blueprint on how to get justice, on how to make change, ... to protect our kids and our loved ones” [14:55]) to communal meal, music, dancing, and even coping mechanisms (visiting a gem shop, using sage for healing rituals) ([15:30]–[21:00]).

4. The Cycle of Grief and Activism

• Double Grief: Beyond death, the mothers deal with a “double grief”—both losing a loved one and witnessing the lack of legal accountability. Of 831 shootings, only one officer charged ([18:54]).
• Ongoing Community: The group gives each other indispensable support—"This is like the club that nobody really wants to be a part of. It's crazy, but it's family." — Crystal Brown ([19:27])
• Transformation: Grieving families are galvanized into a political force ("Mothers of the Movement") ([27:18]).

5. Police Perspective: Daytona Beach Chief Mike Chitwood

• Introduction: Known for progressive policies and unusually low rates of police shootings in Daytona Beach ([29:14]–[30:01]).
• On Bias & Training: Mandated race and policing training—“The history of the country is that we are a racist nation, no matter how you want to look at it.” — Mike Chitwood ([31:05])
  • Admits to systemic bias: “Let's not for a moment think that there isn't bias in policing, because there's bias.” ([31:45])
• Training to “Buy Seconds,” Prevent Tragedy: Emphasizes tactical training to slow down confrontations, keep fingers off triggers, and avoid escalating situations ([33:28]–[34:30]).
• Building Relationships: Advocates actual community engagement, not just showy events ([36:10]–[36:17]).
• Example Video: Chitwood shares a body-cam video where a potentially deadly confrontation is de-escalated with time, patience, and community connection ([36:28]–[39:12]).
  • “There was no doubt in my mind that the one officer in particular knew that individual from prior contact." ([39:38])
• Change in Policing Culture: See officers as people, not statistics or threats—knowing “Derek” by name is what saves lives ([39:42]).

6. Limits of Progress & The Ongoing Systemic Challenge

• From Hope to Reality: Despite progress, real power over justice after a shooting lies with the courts, not police chiefs ([44:07]).
• Rodney Mitchell’s Story: Natasha Clemens’ son, 23, was killed by police at a traffic stop. Officers claimed threat; Natasha and evidence disputed this. No charges were brought ([45:26]–[48:38]).
  • Natasha: “My mind is always on Rodney. ... Why were the guns pulled?” ([48:40]–[48:45])
• Racial Divide & Empathy Gap: Conversations reveal deep divides in trust and experience between Black Americans and many white observers (see rhetorical offer: “get yourself sprayed black, and I guarantee you'll get a different response” [50:39–51:10]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (With Timestamps)

• graphic violence advisory: Jad Abumrad ([00:02])
• “What we react to is all anecdotal ... Is it trending one way or the other? ... We don’t know. Because nobody tracks these.” — Ben Montgomery ([01:19])
• “You can see so A, B, Bay County... all the way through the Alphabet.” — Ben Montgomery, on the scale of collected data ([03:48])
• “The numbers are flat.” — Ben Montgomery ([05:23])
• “If you’re a black person in Florida, you are four times as likely to be shot by police than if you’re white.” — Jad Abumrad ([07:30])
• “It’s a nasty mess ... I'm still just moved by the single cases, the individual cases ... every report is at least one human life.” — Ben Montgomery ([08:18]–[09:16])
• “I've met about 400 other mothers who's lost their children.” — Natasha Clemens ([13:41])
• “Once upon a time ago, there was no coalition like we have today ... There was no blueprint on how to get justice ...” — Crystal Brown ([14:55])
• “It's a different thing when your person is killed by another human being and that human being is returned to the streets with a gun and a badge in a ... position of authority.” — Ben Montgomery ([18:29])
• “This is like the club that nobody really wants to be a part of. ... I couldn't still be fighting. I wouldn't be doing anything if it wasn't for them.” — Crystal Brown ([19:27])
• “The history of the country is that we are a racist nation, no matter how you want to look at it.” — Chief Mike Chitwood ([31:05])
• “Let's not for a moment think that there isn't bias in policing, because there's bias.” — Mike Chitwood ([31:45])
• “‘Slow down when you’re dealing with a mentally ill person.’ That extra 30 seconds may be the difference between saving your life and somebody else’s life.” — Mike Chitwood ([34:37]–[34:50])
• “There was no doubt in my mind that the one officer in particular knew that individual from prior contact." — Mike Chitwood ([39:38])
• "You say that because you're white ... I bet you we can make you look like a Black boy. ... I'm telling you, you'll see a huge difference." — Natasha Clemens ([50:39])
• “How long does it take to fill that gulf? How many Chitwoods does it take? ... How many conversations need to happen?” — Matt Kilty ([51:10])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:43] Introduction of Ben Montgomery and backstory of the data project
• [03:36] Assembling the Florida police shooting database
• [05:23] Key findings: the numbers are flat, not rising
• [07:12] Racial breakdown of those shot by police in Florida
• [09:45] Visiting Marlon Brown’s anniversary event and broader network of mothers
• [13:37] Natasha Clemens shares she's met 400 other grieving mothers
• [16:02]–[17:56] Geneva Reed-Veal and the evolution of “Mothers of the Movement”
• [18:54] Only one officer charged out of over 800 shootings
• [19:27] Crystal Brown on support networks and community
• [29:14]–[36:17] Mike Chitwood, low shooting rates, training, and bias in Daytona Beach Police
• [36:28]–[39:12] Body-cam de-escalation video
• [45:26]–[48:38] Natasha Clemens recounts the loss of her son Rodney Mitchell
• [50:39]–[51:10] Candid exchange about racial experience and police violence
• [51:46]–[52:08] Turning over Rodney's files to Natasha Clemens

Conclusion: The Scope of the Problem, Signs of Change

The episode acknowledges the progress made both by grieving families organizing for accountability and by reform-minded law enforcement, but closes on the sobering reality that legal systems and societal divisions are formidable obstacles.

As Jad Abumrad summarizes: “You’ve got these women who have become kind of a political force. ... You have also this growing movement of cops who are possibly changing the way policing is done in America. ... But cumulatively ... it does feel like reason for hope.” ([42:05]–[42:28])

Still, personal grief, systemic bias, and mistrust reveal that meaningful change is slow and incomplete. The gulf between the lived experiences of Black families and police (and observers) remains both wide and painful.

Next Episode Teaser:
The story continues in Part 2, with more reporting from Ben Montgomery and Matt Kilty, following another Florida police shooting story.

This summary is intended to capture the rich detail, tone, and narrative flow of the original episode while making the key content accessible for new listeners.