Shots Fired: Part 2

Summary

Radiolab – "Shots Fired: Part 2" (March 24, 2017)

Main Theme and Purpose

This episode explores a tragic police shooting in Florida through the deeply personal story of Rick Sheldon and his wife, Andrea (Andy) Sheldon. Using investigative reporting and extensive audio—including police dispatch recordings—the episode dives into a rare, granular reconstruction of the confusions, miscommunications, and split-second decisions that culminate in deadly force. The show’s goal is to illuminate how a chain of small misunderstandings and systemic legal standards around police use of force can escalate into irreversible tragedy.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Human Disconnection in Police Encounters

[02:02]

• The episode opens by highlighting how humans have evolved to read tone and facial expression instead of relying on violence—and how, between officers and civilians, high-stress situations mask these cues, leading to tragic outcomes:

  "Often what’s missing in these interactions is one side of that equation... There’s some breakdown in that equation that makes handicaps us from a normal human interaction." – Narrator

2. Overview of the Data Set and Previous Exploration

[03:03-03:32]

• The episode is part of a multi-part series based on data collected by Ben Montgomery of the Tampa Bay Times, investigating every police shooting in Florida from 2009 to 2014.
• The first installment focused on training and racial factors in shootings; this episode pivots to how courts and the justice system only consider “the moment the officer pulls the trigger,” disregarding the context that led there.

3. Introduction to Rick and Andy’s Story

[04:38-07:15]

• Rick and Andy’s backstory is laid out with personal details of their relationship and everyday life, adding a human touch to the case. Their careers—she was a hospice nurse, he a firefighter and former paramedic—speak to the deep trauma and stress they both experienced.
• Rick shares his struggles with PTSD after years as a first responder.

  “Shortness of breath... chest pain... kind of unravel, loss of concentration...” – Rick Sheldon [07:55]

• The day of the incident (April 15, 2012) unfolded with mundane activities but spiraled into a heated argument that Rick preferred not to detail.

4. The Night of the Shooting: A Cascade of Miscommunications

[08:17-12:01], [15:20-18:48]

• Rick, overwhelmed by the argument and his mental state, drives off to drink and fish alone, eventually taking sleeping pills.
• Feeling he’s "losing it," he calls his boss (a fire chief) seeking help; the boss interprets Rick as possibly suicidal, relaying this (and escalating details) to dispatchers.
• Multiple dispatchers and agencies become involved, each layering on their interpretation of events, which quickly become confused and distorted, especially claims that Andy is “chasing him with a gun” and that Rick is “hiding in the woods.”

• “This is what Ben’s talking about—these clouds of miscommunication.” – Matt Kilty [18:41]

5. The Shooting Incident: Events as They Unfold

[19:03-22:33]

• Deputies, preparing for a dangerous situation, arrive in blackout mode, expecting a violent confrontation based on miscommunicated reports.
• As some deputies call Rick (still miles away), others approach the house in darkness—none of their lights are on, and they wear night vision goggles.
• Andy, unaware it’s the police, grabs a shotgun and steps onto her porch. The deputies say they announced themselves and shouted for her to drop the weapon. They open fire—24 shots, at least 8 hitting Andy—killing her on the spot.

  “Shooting an almost naked woman on our front porch in the middle of night, in the middle of the swamp.” – Rick Sheldon [28:04]

6. Aftermath and Rick’s Reaction

[22:33-25:16]

• Rick, still unaware of what’s occurred, is picked up, handcuffed, and questioned in police headquarters. He’s told his wife is dead in a blunt, almost procedural manner.

  “What do you say when somebody looks at you and says, your wife is dead, we shot and killed her? The absolute implosion of your mind.” – Rick Sheldon [23:10]

• His grief is compounded by bureaucratic details (Andy’s body is in a simple coffin dressed up to look nicer) and a compulsion to search for answers, compiling records, autopsy reports, and diagrams.

7. Rick’s Investigation: Reliving and Reconstructing the Incident

[25:40-28:40]

• Rick obsesses over every detail, confronting inconsistencies in police statements and the physical evidence (e.g., one deputy claims eye contact impossible given house layout).
• He reenacts the crime scene with the help of reporters, mapping out where officers stood and bullet trajectories to make sense of the shooting.

8. Legal Resolution and Continuing Questions

[28:40-30:13]

• The state attorney rules the shooting "a justifiable use of deadly force." No criminal charges are filed against officers.
• Rick files a civil suit alleging excessive force and violation of Andy's civil rights.
• The sheriff's office declines to comment due to ongoing litigation.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On preconceived danger and escalation:

  “They get out of their cars. They don’t even turn on their flashlights. And they start walking down this road to Rick’s place. One of the deputies even puts on these night vision goggles because they think this woman has chased her husband into the woods.” – Matt Kilty [19:06]

• On the psychology of the aftermath:

  “The absolute implosion of your mind.” – Rick Sheldon [23:10]
  “6, 7, 20, 50 times a day asking myself, what are you talking about? What do you mean she can’t be dead?” – Rick Sheldon [24:10]

• On the limits of the legal system:

  “The thing that we found compelling about this story is… you can actually see… all the little moments that lead up to that moment and you realize how complicated these interactions get.” – Matt Kilty [03:36]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Human Disconnection and Police Use of Force: [02:02]
• Explanation of Data Set and Study: [03:03-03:32]
• Sheldon Family Backstory: [04:40-07:15]
• Breakdown of Communications Before the Shooting: [15:20-18:48]
• The Shooting as It Happens: [19:03-22:33]
• Rick’s Emotional and Legal Aftermath: [22:33-25:16], [28:40-30:13]
• Reconstruction and Search for Answers: [25:40-28:40]

---

Tone and Style

The episode is empathetic, somber, and investigative—balancing hard reporting and deep emotional resonance. The hosts and reporters remain sensitive to the pain of those involved, letting Rick speak for himself at length, and provide critical insight without sensationalism.

---

In Summary:
"Shots Fired: Part 2" masterfully reconstructs the tragic Sheldon case to reveal the human costs of procedural rigidity, technological limitations, and basic miscommunication in policing. The episode offers a rich, harrowing case study in how even well-meaning interventions can spiral fatally through a chain of misunderstandings and legal inertia. Listeners come away with a profound sense of loss—and an urgent sense of how much more nuance is required in the evaluation of police violence.

Transcript

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[Jad Abumrad]

Before we get going. Just a quick warning. This podcast contains some descriptions of graphic violence and also some strong language.

[Matt Kilty]

Be warned.

[Rick Sheldon]

Oh, wait, you're listening.

[Matt Kilty]

Okay. All right. Okay.

[Rick Sheldon]

All right.

[Matt Kilty]

You're listening to Radiolab Radio from wny.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Look, so it's hard to kill another human being anymore, right? Our fangs have retreated, our hands are weak. But as we've lost this ability to kill each other, we've gained an ability to read each other's tone of voice and facial expression. And often what's missing in these interactions is one side of that equation. Whether it's the police not seeing somebody because they're running through an alley with their gun drawn and it's dark, or shining a flashlight in someone's face where that person can't see the officer's expression, there's some mask. There's some breakdown in that equation that makes handicaps us from a normal human interaction.

[Jad Abumrad]

Hey, I'm Jad Abumrad.

[Matt Kilty]

I'm Robert Krulwich.

[Jad Abumrad]

This is Radiolab.

[Matt Kilty]

And today we are once again taking a deep dive into Tampa Bay Times reporter Ben Montgomery's. Mountain of data about police shootings in Florida.

[Narrator/Commentator]

So to refresh your memory from. So we've tried to account for every single police shooting from January 1st of 2009 to December 31st of 2014.

[Jad Abumrad]

And we just to remind you, Ben and his team at the Tampa Bay Times collected data from 828police shootings. And there's all kinds of stories that you can tell about this data. Last week we. We looked at police training and race and racism. And obviously there's so much more that can and should be said about all that.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

But this week we're going to go.

[Rick Sheldon]

In a very different direction.

[Matt Kilty]

Maybe, Matt, you just want to set this up for us. Yeah. So we want to tell this story because it actually plays out this idea that Ben just mentioned that there's this sort of communication breakdown that happens, and it does it in a very particular way. Because when one of these cases comes before a court, the court more often than not will only look at the moment that the cop involved in the shooting pulled their trigger. You don't consider any other moment. It's only the objective facts on the ground of the moment. The officer applies force. So the thing that we found compelling about this story is that in this case, you can actually see, in kind of a rare instance, you can step in and see all the little moments that lead up to that moment and you realize how complicated these interactions get. So this particular story, it's a story about a white couple, Andrea and Rick Sheldon. And we're actually gonna start the story with Rick. So on one of my trips to Florida, Ben and I drove to the northeast corner of the state, up near Jacksonville to Rick's place. It's sort of like the wilds of Florida. Hey, sir.

[Rick Sheldon]

Hey, how you doing?

[Matt Kilty]

Matt. Kilty.

[Rick Sheldon]

Nice to meet you.

[Matt Kilty]

Nice to meet you. Like, sort of off the grid wild. Oh, that's a big bird back there. What el do you have on the property?

[Rick Sheldon]

Pretty much a little bit of everything.

[Matt Kilty]

He collects rainwater in barrels. He's got potatoes, tomatoes, squash, these organic gardens, D goats, a lot of animals, turkeys, Big turkeys. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Oh.

[Matt Kilty]

Couple dogs in the house. Oh, you are so excited. All right, I'm gonna hit stop on this, replace the battery. Eventually. We all sat down in Rick's living room. Rick sat cross legged on the couch. Rick, I was just wondering if we could. I pulled up a chair across from him. If we could talk about your case. But even backing up before everything happened, can you just tell me about about your. About your wife.

[Rick Sheldon]

I met Andy. She was down here visiting her mom, and we hit it off straight from the get go.

[Matt Kilty]

Where'd you guys meet?

[Rick Sheldon]

Trade winds Lounge, downtown St. Augustine.

[Matt Kilty]

That a bar downtown?

[Rick Sheldon]

Yep. Yep.

[Matt Kilty]

What'd she look like?

[Rick Sheldon]

Oh, knockout, 10. Dark, dark hair.

[Matt Kilty]

How tall?

[Rick Sheldon]

Oh, short little thing. Five foot two.

[Matt Kilty]

You make the first move?

[Rick Sheldon]

No, we kind of made the same move at the same time. And I can remember telling her, you know, we have a live burn tomorrow.

[Matt Kilty]

Rick was in training to be a.

[Rick Sheldon]

Firefighter at the academy. One of our last events. And then I'd call her whenever I got done, and we'd go have dinner. She's like, no, you're not gonna call me. You're just gonna come over. I'm like, I'm gonna be stinky. She's like, no, because I know that if you go back to your place, you're gonna pass out tired, and I'll never see you again. So you're just gonna come over here and take a shower. I showed up, I ate dinner and passed out.

[Matt Kilty]

So that was date number one?

[Rick Sheldon]

Yep, pretty much.

[Matt Kilty]

So Rick says they just, you know, sort of connected, and so they dated for about a year.

[Rick Sheldon]

She moved down here, and then two.

[Matt Kilty]

Of them got married.

[Rick Sheldon]

She went to nursing school.

[Matt Kilty]

Later became a hospice nurse. Rick eventually became a firefighter for Jackson Fire Rescue. If we were to jump ahead to the night in question, can you just back up to the beginning of the day and just kind of walk me through?

[Rick Sheldon]

Yeah, we woke up extra early.

[Matt Kilty]

What day is this?

[Rick Sheldon]

April 15, 2012. Yeah.

[Matt Kilty]

Okay, so you woke up?

[Rick Sheldon]

Yeah, we were at our cabin in Georgia, getting it ready, getting it all set up and whatnot. And it was gonna be our retirement place anyway. Packed up, came home. Long drive. Long, hot drive. When we got home, you know, started unpacking the car a little bit, started doing a little bit of this, that and the other. Doing a little bit of chatting, talking about dinner, having a couple of drinks, whatnot.

[Matt Kilty]

What happened after that?

[Rick Sheldon]

I don't know. Just kind of started getting grumpy at each other and getting grumpy.

[Matt Kilty]

Now, we talked about this for a while. I'm just wondering if you can remember just kind of any detail of what you guys were talking about, and Rick didn't want to get into it.

[Rick Sheldon]

I'd rather not make a statement about that right now.

[Matt Kilty]

Just about the conversations you guys were having.

[Rick Sheldon]

I'd rather not make a statement about that right now.

[Matt Kilty]

Okay. All we can say, according to the police report, is that Rick and Andy Got into this screaming match, and Rick says that he felt himself.

[Rick Sheldon]

Shortness of breath, chest pain, starting to kind of unravel, loss of concentration, inability to think.

[Matt Kilty]

Rick says he's had problems with PTSD from.

[Rick Sheldon]

For quite a while.

[Matt Kilty]

It goes back to his former job as a paramedic.

[Rick Sheldon]

I'm like, I can't take this. I need to walk away. Grabbed a bottle out of the refrigerator, and I got in my truck, and I went. I was like, okay, I'm just gonna go fishing.

[Matt Kilty]

Drove down this dirt road for about five miles.

[Rick Sheldon]

I went to the big pond down.

[Matt Kilty]

There, but right over by the pond, I was stuck. His truck gets stuck in the mud.

[Rick Sheldon]

I was axle deep.

[Matt Kilty]

So he opens up this bottle of tequila. He starts drinking. He keeps drinking. Eventually, he pops some pills, sleeping pills.

[Rick Sheldon]

Next thing I remember was, you know, I remember having problems. I remember being upset. I remember having my. You know, it's ptsd. It sucks. I remember calling my boss going, hey, I need some help, and asked for help. Asked for employee assistance program help. The suicide hotline.

[Matt Kilty]

Oh, you thought you were suicidal in that moment?

[Rick Sheldon]

No, I just thought I was losing it.

[Matt Kilty]

In what way is it just like.

[Rick Sheldon]

I'm just trying to stop digging? Yeah, stop digging. You don't want to look in his head?

[Matt Kilty]

It gets that bad?

[Rick Sheldon]

Yeah.

[Matt Kilty]

Did he say anything to you?

[Rick Sheldon]

I don't remember the conversation.

[Matt Kilty]

Okay, what happened after that?

[Rick Sheldon]

Next thing I know, I've got the cops calling me, going, where are you?

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Hello, Richard.

[Matt Kilty]

This is recording of that phone call.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

This is Deputy Hulston at the sheriff's office. Hi, Bill. How you doing? Hey, we're. We're trying to come out here and help you.

[Matt Kilty]

It's about 11:15 at night, and the deputy tells Rick that he and a few other deputies are walking down this dirt road to Rick's place because they gotten a call that Rick was possibly suicidal, that he'd gotten into a fight with his wife.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Where are you at? I have no idea, Bill.

[Matt Kilty]

Rick tells the deputy that he got in his truck, drove aways away until.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

I got stuck, and I opened that little flask, and I've been enjoying myself. Your wife at the house? Yeah. Is she okay? Everything all right there at the house? Everything's okay at the house. Okay. Domestic dispute, then. Can you.

[Matt Kilty]

Debbie asked. Well, can I get her phone number? Because you like to make contact with her?

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Because we want to make sure everybody's safe. Because, you know, we got deputies out here, and it's dark, you know, and we don't want her to think that we're somebody prowling and stuff. So when we want her to know what we're saying. So how can, how's the best way we can make contact with her?

[Matt Kilty]

823Rick gives the deputy his home phone number.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

You write this down, all right? Okay. So we're gonna, we're gonna try to make contact with her, and then I'm gonna stay on the phone with you. We're gonna try to get another deputy to call her so that we can get her to come outside. Okay?

[Matt Kilty]

Two of them talk for about another minute. Are you?

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

You're not planning on harming yourself or anything, are you? No, man. Huh? Nah, I just want to leave. What was the last thing? I just want to leave.

[Matt Kilty]

So at this point, the deputy is standing at the edge of Rick and Andy's driveway. Rick is still a few miles away over at his truck, when suddenly in the background of the call, you just hear.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Shots fired. Who the hell is firing shots?

[Matt Kilty]

That's Rick trying to figure out what happened.

[Rick Sheldon]

Deputy.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Crap.

[Rick Sheldon]

Deputy.

[Matt Kilty]

Deputy.

[Jad Abumrad]

When we come back, we look at what happened during that phone call and the tragic game of telephone that led to it. Stay with us.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Hi, this is Albert in State College, Pennsylvania. Radiolab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan foundation, enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. More information about [e-mail].

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[Matt Kilty]

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[Rick Sheldon]

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[Jad Abumrad]

I'm Jad Abumrad, this is Radiolab. To get back to our story, Rick Sheldon and a deputy were on the phone. Shots were fired in the background and then the line went dead. We picked back up with our reporter Matt Guilty.

[Matt Kilty]

So what we know is while the deputy was talking to Rick, the other officers that were with the deputy had gone ahead and gone up to the house. Rick's wife, Andy, heard something came out of the house with a shotgun. The deputies say that she pointed the shotgun at one of the deputies. They opened fire and she was shot and killed there on the front porch. Did they say, did they identify themselves?

[Jad Abumrad]

Or like how did they surprise her?

[Matt Kilty]

Or okay, okay. So actually, so Ben and I were able to get all of the police dispatch recordings from that night. And if you go through these recordings, what you hear is this crazily drawn out version of what Ben was talking about at the top of the story. The disconnect that happens between the deputies and the dispatchers and what they're thinking, hearing and seeing and what's actually happening. Okay, so if you rewind to about 40 minutes before that shooting, the first thing that happened was Rick called his boss. Now, we don't know exactly what was said in that phone call because it wasn't recorded. But what we do know is that Rick's boss left that conversation believing that Rick might be possibly suicidal, that there'd been a fight at the house, that Rick had some guns with him in his truck because Rick and Andy had gone camping and that there was a gun back at the house. But anyways, the first thing that happened after that call is Rick's boss, who's a fire chief, calls fire dispatch who calls a sheriff dispatcher who ropes in.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Another, the St. John's County Sheriff's office can help you.

[Matt Kilty]

Sheriff dispatcher. And what happens is all three dispatchers get on the line and who, who's out in the woods try and figure out what's going on.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

His wife is, no, the guy is in the woods.

[Matt Kilty]

Eventually the sheriff dispatcher, this is dispatcher number three. He's just like, okay, let me just.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Call the chief and see I can get some information.

[Matt Kilty]

I'll call the fire chief back, try and figure this out.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

I'll take this job. Thanks.

[Matt Kilty]

Now right around the time that dispatcher number three is making that call, somehow another sheriff's dispatcher, a fourth dispatcher, Charlie, welfare check, decides to put out a call for a welfare check. Basically ask a couple deputy's to go to Rick's house, make sure everything's okay.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

It's advised that he is in the woods and has a handgun, which is true.

[Matt Kilty]

Rick says he had one in the back of the truck, but he says it wasn't loaded.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

10, 4.

[Matt Kilty]

But then things start to get more complicated because when dispatcher number three gets ahold of Rick's boss, the fire chief, that's correct.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Can you just start giving me some details? He called in, what's his issue, what's the deal?

[Matt Kilty]

The fire chief says when Rick called.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Him, he said, chief, I'm out here hiding in the woods, my wife's chasing me with a gun. Just couldn't take it anymore and then he hung up on me.

[Matt Kilty]

Now Rick denies having said anything like that to his boss. And his boss, as you'll hear, does seem to walk some of it back. But.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

All right, thank you.

[Matt Kilty]

Yep, things are kind of already set in motion because then supposedly dispatcher number four relays the chief's story to the deputies in route.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

The wife has a signal 0 handgun and is chasing the male who took medication. I don't know if you hallucinating or what's going on.

[Matt Kilty]

But then that same dispatcher, dispatcher four calls Rick's boss, the fire chief, okay.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Now his wife is chasing him and.

[Matt Kilty]

He'S like, well, chasing the information that.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

He told me his wife had a.

[Matt Kilty]

Gun, which Rick says he said, but just that there was a gun in the house. That's it.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

And he was hiding from her in the woods. Okay. And she threatened to kill him. He didn't say anything like that. Clarification. Male Hap is hiding from his wife, who signaled zero with a handgun in fear of her. Are trying to get more. 1043, 48, 10 4. Thank you.

[Matt Kilty]

This is what Ben's talking about, about these sort of clouds of miscommunication.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Because by the time the police show up at this house for what is normally a welfare check.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

South radio weems.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Now she has a shotgun inside the house.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Chantel, it's Mike. Hey, what you got?

[Narrator/Commentator]

She's chased him off into the woods.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

What's that address?

[Matt Kilty]

He's also armed, maybe even hallucinating. So the deputies, they.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

So damn dark out here. We're blacked out. Walking.

[Narrator/Commentator]

Pull up in a blackout.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Just be careful.

[Matt Kilty]

Meaning they turn off their police lights. They get out of their cars. They don't even turn on their flashlights. And they start walking down this road to Rick's place. And one of the deputies even puts.

[Narrator/Commentator]

On these night vision goggles because they think this woman has chased her husband into the woods.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Supposedly, he's in the woods by his house. So just listen out, too.

[Matt Kilty]

And as the deputies start walking down this dirt road towards Rick's place.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Somebody got pepper spray?

[Matt Kilty]

Situation gets more tense. What?

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

What just happened? Get it out. Get it out. Doll's coming.

[Matt Kilty]

Because, like, the neighbor's dog is starting to freak out. But eventually.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Okay, we're here.

[Matt Kilty]

These six deputies get to the edge of Rick's driveway.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Chantelle, I'll call you back. Okay, thank you.

[Matt Kilty]

Bye.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Be careful.

[Matt Kilty]

It's actually right around here. About 40 minutes after Rick made that first call to his boss, that Rick gets that call from the deputy.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

This is Deputy Hallstone, Sheriff's office. Hi, Bill. How you doing?

[Matt Kilty]

So, you know, the two of them talk for a while. The deputy's trying to figure out where Rick is, and eventually he asks, your.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Wife'S got a gun? No, I took all the guns with me, except for she's got 12 gauge. Okay. Is she okay? Everything all right up there at the house?

[Matt Kilty]

And Rick's like, yeah, everything's okay at the house.

[Narrator/Commentator]

We're fine.

[Matt Kilty]

Okay.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Domestic dispute.

[Narrator/Commentator]

No reason to be worried.

[Matt Kilty]

But as that deputy is talking to Rick.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

I'm gonna stay on the phone with.

[Matt Kilty]

Four of the deputies, start walking up Rick's driveway. They want to check on Andy. So they get up to the house. Two of them walk up onto the porch. One of them even looks through the bedroom window where Andy is.

[Narrator/Commentator]

And she has no reason to believe the police are anywhere on her property. She was asleep, and presumably she heard.

[Matt Kilty]

A noise, grabbed the shotgun in the.

[Narrator/Commentator]

House and came outside.

[Matt Kilty]

Now, in this moment, all we really have to go on is what the cops said they saw, which is Andy came out through the front door wearing nothing but her underwear, holding the shotgun. The cops say they identified themselves. They were screaming at her to drop the gun. They say that Andy took a step forward, leveled the shotgun against her shoulder, and then they opened fire. They fired 24 shots. They hit Andy at least eight times. She fell to the porch. Some of the police officers rushed to her, began performing first aid. Eventually they radioed for an ambulance and paramedics showed up and pronounced Andy dead at the scene.

[Deputy/Dispatcher]

Hmm.

[Matt Kilty]

At this point, do you have any idea what's happening?

[Rick Sheldon]

No, not a clue. I realized that I needed to snap out, wake up, get my ass in gear and find out what's going on.

[Matt Kilty]

But Rick's truck was stuck and so it took a few hours, but eventually the cops figured out where he was, sent a crew over to meet him.

[Rick Sheldon]

Yeah, the ground crew came over and picked me up, handcuffed me and put me in the back of a four wheel drive pickup truck and took me into headquarters.

[Matt Kilty]

They got him out of the car, brought him into headquarters, put me in.

[Rick Sheldon]

A room, typical interrogation type room. And then I started noticing that they were being very, very friendly. Some people saying something about, you know, my. My camping equipment in the truck. I remember them authorizing me to have a cigarette in the room. And then we pretty much went through the same questioning that we've gone through so far. And at which time they informed me that they had come out to the house to check on Andy and she had come to the door and there was an altercation and they shot and killed her.

[Matt Kilty]

That was the phrasing they used?

[Rick Sheldon]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Matt Kilty]

An altercation, yes. When you hear something like that, I mean, I can't even fathom how you respond to some news like that.

[Rick Sheldon]

I still can't fathom responding to it.

[Matt Kilty]

Did you say anything to him?

[Rick Sheldon]

Am I under arrest? Get these fucking coughs off me.

[Matt Kilty]

How long did it take him to uncuff you?

[Rick Sheldon]

I don't remember.

[Matt Kilty]

Were you saying anything to him while you were still cuffed?

[Rick Sheldon]

From that moment on, I pretty much just. I mean, what do you say? Whenever somebody looks at you and says, your wife is dead, we shot and killed her. The absolute implosion of your mind.

[Matt Kilty]

Just.

[Rick Sheldon]

The searing pain, the explosive feeling. Do I get angry? Do I get sad? Do I break down and cry? Do I fall apart? Do I hold it to together long enough to where I can figure out what the hell just happened? You know what you did? What? You went out to my house in the middle of night and you shot my wife.

[Matt Kilty]

There.

[Rick Sheldon]

I mean, how do you respond to that? I mean, to this day, I'm still 6, 7, 20, 50 times a day asking myself, what are you talking about? What do you mean she can't be dead? What are you talking about? No, no.

[Matt Kilty]

Did you see her at all after the shooting?

[Rick Sheldon]

Yes, it's about two weeks after.

[Matt Kilty]

Where was that?

[Rick Sheldon]

At the funeral home. Went over to the funeral home and. Sorry, my feet are going to sleep. I reached down to kiss her and felt the edge of what I thought was a casket move. And it was that time that I realized that she was on cartoon box that just had frill on it to make it look pretty.

[Matt Kilty]

Did you say anything to her?

[Rick Sheldon]

Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Told her that we really needed to do something about her hair because it was a mess. And the rest of what I said to her is between me and her here. All right. I need a break.

[Matt Kilty]

Yeah, no, of course. Take a break. I put the microphone down. Rick got up and went over to the kitchen and poured himself a pretty big glass of vodka. We kind of just walked around the property for a while. We kept talking. Eventually, Rick pulled out this computer bag that he keeps buried in his closet.

[Rick Sheldon]

Diagram of all the shooters involved.

[Matt Kilty]

It's this bag full of. And the shots fired.

[Rick Sheldon]

Mm.

[Matt Kilty]

All the police reports that were made about that night. Medical examiner's autopsy report. Yeah.

[Rick Sheldon]

You know how many times I've sat down and just written through all the questions I have? You know the autopsy report that said that there was no previous search really? She just had her gallbladder taken out.

[Matt Kilty]

These are just questions that constantly kept going on.

[Rick Sheldon]

You know, Coward says that he made eye contact with her.

[Matt Kilty]

That's Deputy Thomas Coward.

[Rick Sheldon]

And she with him. Okay, so a guy is standing at the window. You've seen the elevation of the window compared to whenever a 6 foot tall person is standing at it. You really telling me that you made eye contact?

[Matt Kilty]

Rick also has all the recordings of the police department dispatch. How many times have you listened to those recordings?

[Rick Sheldon]

Countless. Non stop.

[Matt Kilty]

Was it like a daily thing?

[Rick Sheldon]

Hourly.

[Matt Kilty]

He says he just can't Stop asking himself, how did this happen? And then eventually, who's got the map? Rick walked us outside. Diagram's back inside. Rick went back inside, came back out with this map that his lawyers had drawn up.

[Rick Sheldon]

Take this map and position yourself in the positions where the shooters were at.

[Matt Kilty]

He started having me and Ben walk through the shooting of his wife. Kind of like going and placing ourselves where each officer was.

[Rick Sheldon]

This one down here, he's the one that testified that he couldn't see what he was shooting at. He just knew that the other guys were shooting.

[Matt Kilty]

So he's on the other side of the.

[Rick Sheldon]

On the other side of that tank.

[Matt Kilty]

He watches over closer to the porch where one of the officers was. And you can see some of the bullet holes in the house.

[Rick Sheldon]

Yeah.

[Matt Kilty]

There. So that's a. So a bullet went through here, tore up. Tore up the.

[Rick Sheldon]

Yep.

[Matt Kilty]

Plastic. Then we were off the front porch, over in the front yard where three of the deputies were. So they. They see her come out and they start moving across like this.

[Rick Sheldon]

Yeah. Shooting a almost naked woman on our front porch in the middle of night, in the middle of the swamp. Them.

[Matt Kilty]

Rick then walked inside and left us standing in his yard. About four months after Andrea Sheldon was shot and killed, the state Attorney's office sent a letter to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement that had conducted an investigation in the shooting, saying that there'd be no charges brought against the officers, stating that what they did was a, quote, justifiable use of deadly force. Rick has filed a civil complaint on behalf of the estate of Andrea Sheldon. The complaint alleges each officer involved in the shooting violated her civil rights, used excessive force, didn't follow training policy and procedure, and intentionally inflicted emotional distress on Rick. When we reached out to the St. John's County Sheriff's Office, they said they could not comment on the case pending litigation.

[Jad Abumrad]

Big thanks to our producer Matt Kilty and Tampa Bay Times reporter Ben Montgomery. Definitely keep an eye on our website, Radiolab.org as soon as the Tampa Bay Times big feature is up, we will link you there. And it's definitely worth checking out. Radiolab.org is the address. I'm Jad Abumrad.

[Matt Kilty]

I'm Robert Krulwich.

[Jad Abumrad]

Thanks for listening.

[Desta Rusa]

Hi, this is Desta Rusa calling from Long Island City in New York. Radiolab is produced by Jad Abumrad. Dylan Keefe is our director of sound design. Soren Wheeler is senior editor. Jamie York is our senior producer. Our staff includes Simon Adler, Brenna Farrell, David Gebel, Matt Kielty, Robert Krulwich Annie McKeown, Latif Nassar, Melissa O', Donnell, Arianne Wack and Molly Webster. With help from Tracy Hunt, Valentina Bohanini, Ngar Fatali, Phoebe Wang and Katie Ferguson. Our fact checker is Michelle Harris.