Radiolab: “(So-Called) Life”
Original Release: April 7, 2008
Hosted by: Jad Abumrad & Robert Krulwich
Production: WNYC Studios
Overview
Radiolab’s “(So-Called) Life” dives into the boundary between what is natural and what is possible when it comes to life itself. Exploring advances in biotechnology, synthetic biology, and the philosophical tensions they provoke, this episode guides listeners from mythical hybrids at the Museum of Natural History to cutting-edge experiments in genetic engineering. Hosts Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich blend human stories with science, probing the meaning of “natural” in a world where we can invent life—sometimes quite literally.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Allure of Hybrids: Myth to Biology
[00:45 – 05:12]
- Setting: American Museum of Natural History, “Mythic Creatures” exhibit.
- Mythical Mashups: Dragons, unicorns, and other chimeras highlight humanity’s fascination with combining parts from different animals—a creative instinct echoing through to biotechnology.
- Laurel Kendall (curator): “The human mind loves to wonder, well, what would happen if we put wings on a horse or put a tail on a beautiful woman that is human?” (01:23)
- Children’s Perspective: Kids marvel at the exhibits and build imaginary creatures, fueling a vision of a future where genetic engineering could make new creatures a reality.
Notable Quote:
Freeman Dyson (via narration): “Genetic engineering, once it gets into the hands of housewives and children, will give us an explosion of diversity of new living creatures.” (04:05)
2. A Real-Life Chimera: The Case of Karen
[05:46 – 14:31]
- Karen’s Story: When seeking a kidney transplant, Karen discovers that DNA tests reveal her children are not her own—according to the test.
- Medical Mystery: Tests indicate two sets of DNA in her body—ultimately revealing she is a human chimera, the result of two fertilized eggs merging in utero.
- Karen (on hearing the term chimera): “...in the ancient Greek myths, a chimera is an animal that has, like, a lion head and a donkey's hoof, a goat tail… it’s a mixture.” (12:36)
- Karen, reflecting: “There is almost a sort of subtle sadness, to think that I would have had a sister.” (14:16)
Notable Quote:
Karen’s Doctor Lynn Yule: “We've never had a mother whose DNA didn't match their children.” (08:10)
3. Intentionally Created Chimeras and the Ethics of Blending Life
[14:37 – 25:14]
- Scientific Chimeras:
- Lee Silver (Princeton): Describes Danish embryologist Steen Willadsen’s “geep” (goat-sheep hybrid) experiments, where animal bodies are mosaics of both species.
- Raises ethical questions: What about human-animal hybrids? How do we define boundaries between species?
- Lee Silver: “Based on the geep results… it’s very likely that you’d have an organism born that was part chimp, part human.” (17:10)
- Art as Inquiry: Discussion of a play exploring the possibility and moral implications of a human-chimp hybrid, inspired by a real student's proposal to attempt such an experiment.
Boundary Discussion:
Lee Silver: “If you look at the analogy I like to give...look at the color spectrum between green and blue...there’s no point at which you say, here’s the boundary between green and blue...If you take that analogy to human beings...there’s no boundary.” (22:05)
- Genetic Engineering Today: Routine creation of animals with human genes (e.g., cows producing human blood, mice with human kidneys)—mostly accepted if the creature’s appearance is left unchanged.
4. What is Natural? The Origins of Life and Sharing Genes
[29:36 – 36:04]
- Ancient “Commune”: Applied mathematician Steve Strogatz and physicist Nigel Goldenfeld describe how early life was defined by rampant, non-selective gene sharing—a genetic “commune”—rather than species boundaries.
- Steve Strogatz: “...when you go back far enough, there’s a kind of rampant sharing of molecules. It’s a kind of orgy in which there are no well defined species or organisms.” (30:48)
- A Turning Point: Over time, one bacterium stops sharing, ending the “commune” era, enabling species and individuality—but also slowing innovation.
Notable Quote:
Robert Krulwich: “For the first billion years of life...everything that Darwin teaches, all that stuff hasn’t happened. There are no borders, no individuals, there’s no species.” (33:56)
5. The Third Age: Human-Directed Evolution
[36:30 – 39:32]
- Freeman Dyson’s Vision:
- Predicts an age where anyone can tinker with DNA as a hobby (even children), creating new life on-demand.
- Dyson: “There will be do it yourself kits...The winner could be the kid whose seed grows the prickliest cactus, or the kid whose egg hatches the cutest dinosaur.” (38:44)
- Already Here: College students at MIT engineer E. coli to smell like wintergreen and then banana; genetic engineering is already democratizing.
Notable Moment:
Stephen Payne (MIT student): “Did you feel a little spooked by the fact that you just created a life form new to creation? ...Just feels like basic engineering.” (42:08–42:30)
6. Synthetic Biology in Practice: Accessible, Modular Creation
[46:29 – 54:40]
- Standardizing Life: Synthetic biologists like Brian Baines (Codon Devices) manufacture custom DNA for anyone who emails a genetic “recipe.”
- Brian Baines: “We make custom synthetic genes from scratch… The industry’s basically doubling every two years.” (48:10–48:17)
- Dreams and Worries: Reduction of life to “building blocks;” creation of diesel-producing bacteria; vision of future energy made by engineered microbes.
- Philosophical Skepticism: The analogy of life as a “machine” or a “game of Legos” prompts hosts’ ambivalence—does something crucial get lost, or misunderstood, in this conception?
Notable Conversation:
Robert Krulwich: “It’s hard for me to believe that that [life] is just a chemical machine assembled from parts.” (47:26)
7. Cautionary Tales: Hubris, Unknowns, and Unintended Outcomes
[54:46 – 62:13]
- Ambition vs. Caution: Craig Venter’s vision—creating life forms “from scratch”—sparks concern over the balance between innovation and humility.
- Venter: “This is the engineering of the rest of this century. And that’s a little...I mean, stand aside, young man. I'll rescue you now with my magical scientific ability…” (55:23)
- The Not-Knowing: Releasing engineered life into the environment may have unforeseen consequences, as history with antibiotics and resistant bacteria shows.
- Knowledge Gaps: We barely understand how life works at a collective level; our capacity to engineer radically outpaces our understanding.
- Steve Strogatz: “We’re really still missing 99% of the picture, literally. So it’s a scary time to start playing Dr. Frankenstein, given how ignorant we are.” (59:29)
- Dual Use Fears: Even viruses (like polio) have been artificially created in university labs, posing biosecurity concerns.
Notable Exchange:
Jad Abumrad: “Do you say to these guys, stop? Would you have these guys stop doing what they're doing? Stop doing their experiments, asking questions, being curious?” Robert Krulwich: “That’d be ridiculous to tell a scientist not to do science.” (60:37–60:58)
8. Conclusion: The Importance—and Danger—of Playfulness
[61:13 – 62:13]
- Science is powered by curiosity and a willingness to play, but also demands awareness of our vast ignorance.
- Steve Strogatz: “We are what we are because we like to play with nature, with ideas, with language… But we have to be very careful...We have a vast ocean to discover before us.” (61:19)
Notable Quotes & Timestamps
- Laurel Kendall: “The human mind loves to wonder, well, what would happen if we put wings on a horse…” (01:23)
- Freeman Dyson: “Genetic engineering, once it gets into the hands of housewives and children, will give us an explosion of diversity of new living creatures.” (04:05)
- Karen: “I gave birth to these kids. I felt the pain.” (07:58)
- Lee Silver: “If you think about it, there's no firm boundary between human being and non-human being.” (22:05)
- Nigel Goldenfeld: “Once you start having a lot of exchange...then you start even asking, what does it mean to be a species?” (33:20)
- Freeman Dyson: “The winner could be the kid whose seed grows the prickliest cactus, or the kid whose egg hatches the cutest dinosaur.” (38:44)
- Stephen Payne: “Just feels like basic engineering.” (42:30)
- Steve Strogatz: “We keep being surprised about life...We’re really still missing 99% of the picture...” (59:29)
- Steve Strogatz: “So we're going to play, but we have to be very careful...We have a vast ocean to discover before us.” (61:15–61:19)
Structure & Tone
Radiolab’s signature is an energized, conversational blend of playful curiosity and philosophical probing. Listeners are taken on a voyage from the mythic, through the medical and scientific, to the existential—never shying from playful music numbers or uncomfortable questions.
Timestamps of Major Segments
- Mythic Creatures/Museum: [00:45–05:12]
- Karen the Chimera’s Story: [05:46–14:31]
- Goat-Sheep “Geep” & Chimeras: [14:37–25:14]
- Ancient Gene Sharing / Origin of Species: [29:36–36:04]
- Freeman Dyson’s Biotech Vision: [36:30–39:32]
- DIY Genetic Engineering (MIT students): [39:15–43:36]
- Synthetic Biology (Brian Baines/Codon Devices): [46:29–54:40]
- Cautionary Perspectives (Venter & Strogatz): [54:46–62:13]
For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In
This episode illustrates how the line between invented and natural life has blurred: From mythological chimeras to real human genetic mosaics; from engineered scents in bacteria to possible new fuel-creating bugs; and—from the perspectives of scientists, ethicists, and storytellers—whether we should be excited or afraid (or both) as life’s rules are rewritten. Throughout, the tension between human ingenuity and humility in the face of the Unknown gives the episode its emotional current.
Final Thought
Radiolab’s “(So-Called) Life” compels listeners to confront the question: What does it really mean to be “natural”—and what are the promises and perils of humans taking evolution into their own hands? As the episode closes, listeners are left marveling both at our growing power and our persistent ignorance about the greatest mystery of all: life itself.