Staph Retreat

Fri Mar 20 2026

A strange brew that's hard to resist, even for a modern day microbe.In the war on devilish microbes, our weapons are starting to fail us. The antibiotics we once wielded like miraculous flaming swords seem more like lukewarm butter knives. But in this episode, originally released in 2015, we follow an odd couple, of a sort, to a storied land of elves and dragons. There, they uncover a 1,000-year-old secret that makes us reconsider our most basic assumptions about human progress and wonder: what if the only way forward is backward? Special thanks to Steve Diggle, Professor Roberta Frank, Alexandra Reider and Justin Park (our Old English readers), Gene Murrow from Gotham Early Music Scene, Marcia Young for her performance on the medieval harp and Collin Monro of Tadcaster and the rest of the Barony of Iron Bog.Can’t get enough of that sweet, sweet antibiotic resistance content? Then you’ll be over the moon about next week’s release. It’s the podcast cut of our most recent installmen...

Transcript

Molly Webster (0:01)

Hey, it's Molly Webster. I have a surprise for you. Next month, myself and producer Mona Medgauker are going to do an AMA about our snail sex tape episode. You can ask us anything about snails and the behind the scenes of making an episode work. How long did it take us to make? How did we come up with the sound effects? Why are snails and slugs related? The AMA will be on April 16, and in order to come, you have to be a member of the lab. So go to Radiolab.org/join right now, sign up. Use the code word snail to get a discount on your membership. And also, if you sign up now, you get a snail enamel pin. If you're already a member of the lab, come to the ama. Thank you for listening. Can't wait to see you there. April 16th.

Lulu Miller (0:51)

Hey, it's Lulu. This week I want to bring back an episode about scientists who look in the most unexpected place to find a brand new drug to treat a very tricky bug. The bug is mrsa, that really nasty infection people sometimes get in hospitals. And I don't want to give away the drug cause that's sort of all the fun. So I'm going to just pass you off to Jad, Robert and little baby Latif from about a decade ago. Here we go.

Latif Nasser (1:20)

Wait, you're listening.

Freya Harrison (1:22)

All right. Okay.

Robert Krulwich (1:25)

All right.

Soren Wheeler (1:27)

You're listening to Radiolab.

Latif Nasser (1:29)

Radiolab from wnyc. Rewind. So the way the story goes, it starts in 1928.

Jad Abumrad (1:43)

1928. Alexander Fleming, the story goes, who knows if it's apocryphal or not, is growing staph, staphylococcus, in his lab.

Latif Nasser (1:53)

That's Maren McKenna, she's a science writer. And staph is a bacterium.

Jad Abumrad (1:57)

It lives on our skin and it especially likes parts of the body that are warm and damp.

Latif Nasser (2:05)

So it likes to be just up our noses or in our genitals, in

Jad Abumrad (2:08)

our armpits, places like that.

Latif Nasser (2:10)

And generally it's no big deal, doesn't really do us any harm. But if it gets into a scratch or a cut and makes its way

Summary

Radiolab – "Staph Retreat"

Date: March 20, 2026
Host: Lulu Miller, Latif Nasser
Key Contributors: Jad Abumrad, Robert Krulwich, Soren Wheeler, Freya Harrison, Christina Lee

Episode Overview

Theme:
"Staph Retreat" explores the ancient and modern struggle against bacterial infections, focusing on MRSA (Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus). The episode recounts the serendipitous discovery of penicillin, the relentless evolution of antibiotic resistance, and the creative search for new solutions in unlikely places—specifically, resurrecting a medieval remedy from "Bald’s Leechbook" that surprisingly demonstrates powerful antibacterial properties. It’s a journey that fuses history, science, and a bit of Viking cosplay, and asks what we can learn from the medical wisdom of the distant past.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin and Limits of Antibiotics (00:52–08:27)

Fleming’s Penicillin:
1928, London. Alexander Fleming accidentally discovers penicillin when mold drifts in through an open window, killing staph bacteria in a petri dish (02:29–04:00).
- “It really was a moment when the world changed.” – Jad Abumrad (04:23)
Antibiotic Resistance Emerges Fast:
Shortly after penicillin’s success, resistant staph strains emerge—almost simultaneously with its mass adoption during WWII.
- "Virtually at the exact same time… this Stanford researcher publishes that he has found five different strains of staph that do not respond to penicillin.” – Latif Nasser (04:48)
Arms Race Continues:
New drugs are developed (methicillin, clindamycin, etc.), but bacteria continually leapfrog and develop resistance, often within a year.
- “The era of penicillin was over before it began, almost before it began.” – Soren Wheeler (05:25)
- “Drug, bug. Drug bug.” – Jad Abumrad & Soren Wheeler (06:11)
Drug Development Stalls:
By the 2000s, pharmaceutical companies stopped pursuing new antibiotics due to massive costs and rapid obsolescence.
- “Drug approvals just kind of fell off a cliff.” – Jad Abumrad (07:07)

2. The Medieval Window: Bald's Leechbook (08:27–25:55)

The Modern-Day Discovery

Enter: Dr. Christina Lee & Dr. Freya Harrison (11:20–13:47):
- Christina Lee (historian of Viking & Anglo-Saxon England)
- Freya Harrison (microbiologist & historical reenactor)
- They bond over a shared interest in Old English, infectious diseases, and reenactment; become research collaborators.
The Old English Remedy (14:30–16:53):
- "Bald’s Leechbook," an 1100-year-old manuscript—a healer’s handbook filled with remedies.
- Leech, or "læce," was old English for healer, not just the worm.
- They seek a remedy explicitly targeting bacterial infections.
Discovery: The "Best Medicine" for Eye Lumps (16:40–17:54):
- Remedy for a “lump in the eye” (likely a stye, i.e., a staph infection).
- Recipe ingredients: Onion/leek, garlic, ox gall, (English) wine, and copper/brass vessel (or pennies as a modern substitute).
- Preparation involves pounding ingredients, letting them steep for nine days and nights.

Reconstructing the Remedy (18:13–22:20)

Following the Ancient Recipe (18:13–21:39):
- Debate over translation of "kropliac" (onion/leek).
- Research into wine type and source; local-to-the-manuscript vineyard chosen.
- Substitution of modern plumbing copper to mimic ancient brass.
- The concoction steeps for nine days, then is strained (“with a feather”).
Lab Testing (22:14–23:32):
- Fake wounds made from collagen jelly are infected with staph and MRSA.
- Application of the remedy wipes out almost 100% of bacteria on first attempt.
- Replication of experimental success, both in regular staph and MRSA strains.
“It was a staph massacre. It went on a rampage… 99.99999% of these bacterial cells.”
— Freya Harrison (23:01)

“This is just something you really don’t see in your career as a microbiologist.”
— Freya Harrison (23:32)
US Collab and Jaw-Dropping Results (24:05–24:28):
- Sent to US collaborator Kendra Rumbaugh, who sees similar results on MRSA.
- “I think she just simply said, ‘What the fook?’” – Freya Harrison (24:14)

3. From Ancient Brew to Future Drug? (25:55–30:34)

Skepticism and Caution

Not a Miracle—Yet (24:31–24:51):
- Emphasis on preliminary nature; not tested in humans, safety unknown.
- “Absolutely do not do this at home.” – Christina Lee (24:38)
- “We should not have done this. Matt and I, we dumped ours down the drain.” – Latif Nasser (24:51)
Time Travel and Reimagination of Progress (24:51–27:37):
- The story raises questions about assumptions of progress and how ancient knowledge might cycle back into relevance.
- Discussion about interpreting religious or superstitious components (e.g., “Sing 3 Ave Marias” as a timing method).
  - “Maybe it’s take this medicine and wait 20 minutes. And I know how to standardize 20 minutes, which is 3 Ave Marias.” – Latif Nasser (26:52)
  - “We need to be a little less dismissive and learn a little bit more… learned a bit of humility this way.” – Christina Lee (27:22)
The Antibiotic Arms Race: The Value of Forgotten Remedies
- Resistance may wane during long disuse, making old remedies potent again.
  - “Sometimes when you take a drug out of circulation... sometimes resistance does decline.” – Maren McKenna (28:32)
- The cycle of discovery, resistance, and rediscovery is possible—our ancestors likely saw similar patterns with their own remedies.

4. Where Are We Now? Updates and Reflections (30:34–32:05)

Recent Developments:
- By 2022, Bald’s eye salve enters Phase I human safety trials—no harmful effects detected in healthy volunteers, and main active compounds are being identified.
- “Potentially great news for all of us, staying a little healthier, using very old things.” – Lulu Miller (31:21)
Patenting and Historical Equity:
- If the remedy becomes a drug, who owns the rights? Mr. Bald? The manuscript's author? The university?
  - “It becomes a really interesting question, you know, of who owns the IP on this?” – Christina Lee (32:05)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“Something ought to blow in. But we could wait a long time... Staff had been around for millennia before 1928.”
– Soren Wheeler & Jad Abumrad (08:09)
“We have a new window... and it carries an axe.”
– Latif Nasser (08:39)
“I've been interested in infectious disease for quite a long time, which... I don’t find any kind of friends in my department.”
– Christina Lee (13:47)
“Sebesta lachdom. The best medicine.”
– Freya Harrison (16:45)
“Maybe it’s take this medicine and wait 20 minutes... and 3 Ave Marias is 20 minutes.”
– Latif Nasser (26:52)
“The whole world of the past then becomes the fruit of your future, sort of.”
– Robert Krulwich (29:20)

Timestamps for Key Segments

Penicillin’s Discovery & Antibiotic Arms Race: 00:51–08:27
Meet Christina & Freya, and Bald’s Leechbook: 11:20–16:53
Reconstructing and Testing “The Best Medicine": 18:13–23:32
USA MRSA Results (“What the fook?”): 24:05–24:28
Progress, Interpretation, and Time Travel: 24:51–27:37
Antibiotic Cycling Concept: 28:25–29:26
Recent Clinical Developments and Patent Questions: 30:34–32:05

Conclusion

"Staph Retreat" unites historical curiosity, scientific rigor, and storytelling flair to probe whether the solutions to superbugs might be found in our past. The episode’s blend of skepticism and wonder invites us to reconsider old knowledge—and to keep opening new windows (with or without axes).

For more:

Learn about Radiolab: radiolab.org
Find out more about Bald’s Eye Salve research: University of Nottingham’s AncientBiotics project