Stranger in Paradise

Summary

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Radiolab – "Stranger in Paradise"

Release Date: January 27, 2017
Hosts: Jad Abumrad & Robert Krulwich
Reported by: Simon Adler
Setting: Guadeloupe (French Caribbean)

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Overview:

This episode delves into a curious case of identity, belonging, and conservation through the story of the Guadeloupe raccoon. What appears on the surface to be a story about nuisance animals becomes a complex exploration of scientific classification, colonial dynamics, cultural identity, and the messiness of "nature" itself. Reporter Simon Adler brings listeners to Guadeloupe, where the raccoon is both a national symbol and, increasingly, an ecological and cultural problem.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Guadeloupe and the Nuisance Raccoon

• Setting the Scene:
  Simon Adler visits a Guadeloupe watermelon farm run by Sully and Lois, who have battled raccoons devastating their crop for 15 years. (03:13–06:12)
• Raccoons as Pests:
  Despite electric fences, traps, and even guard dogs, nothing deters the raccoons. The raccoons are astoundingly clever, bending traps and even, in one tragic case, killing a guard dog:
  • Quote (Sully’s wife, Lois, re: the aftermath):

    "It was carnage. It was a massacre." (06:45)

2. Love for the Raccoon

• Contradictory Sentiments:
  Despite the widespread nuisance, Guadeloupeans adore raccoons. The animal is featured on billboards, statues, and in the zoo's main exhibits. (08:04–09:18)
• Sentimentality vs. Survival:
  Sully and Lois, the affected farmers, can’t bring themselves to kill raccoons:
  • Quote (Lois):

    "Killing them is a little... a little harsh." (07:39)

3. The Raccoon's Rise to Mascot Status

• The Science:
  In 1911, a scientist named Miller received a raccoon carcass from Guadeloupe and declared it a new species: Procyon minor. This set up the assumption of a unique, endemic animal. (09:50–11:02)
• Protected & Celebrated (1980s–90s):
  France passed a law protecting the "Guadeloupe raccoon" and the animal became national park mascot—a source of pride and an emblem of cultural distinction from France. (11:57–13:01)
  • Quote (Blandine Guimont, Wildlife police):

    "It really became that symbol of protected species." (12:31)

4. The Raccoon as Family

• Emotional Ties:
  Personal stories, like that of Na Marie Joseph, who hand-raised a raccoon ("Sophie") as a pet, illustrate genuine emotional connection and heartbreak (14:38–15:42).
  • Quote (Na):

    "When he died, I cried. I cried his name. It was a really, really painful time for me." (15:42)

5. Colonial Undercurrents and the Law

• Symbol of Independence:
  The raccoon’s protected status becomes a way for Guadeloupe to assert cultural independence from France—mirroring historic tensions (16:16–17:08).
• Enforcement Struggles:
  White, French police enforce no-pet-raccoon laws via militaristic “raids,” sometimes in poor, Black neighborhoods—a microcosm of colonial authority (18:00–27:17).
  • Quote (Antoine, officer):

    “As a police officer… I have to be here to enforce the law, period. No questions asked.” (19:13)

6. Scientific Detective Work—The "Type Specimen"

• Smithsonian Museum Visit:
  Simon and mammalogist Christopher Helgen examine the original “type specimen” of the Guadeloupe raccoon and its DNA (28:46–34:08).
• Revelation:
  Genetic and anatomical analysis shows it isn’t a unique species—it’s just the common North American raccoon, likely brought by ship in the last 200 years.
  • Quote (Helgen):

    "Not only are these, you know, not very different, they are just simply North American raccoons." (33:29)

7. The Shift—From Endemic Icon to Invasive Species

• Cultural Resistance:
  Despite the new science, Guadeloupe kept the findings quiet and maintained the raccoon’s protected status:
  • Quote (Helgen, relaying locals’ response):

    "Thank you very much, but we’re going to hold on to our raccoon.” (35:28)

• Emotional Fallout:
  For locals like Na, the revelation is “kind of sad… I wish it would have been so.” (37:49–38:08)
• Policy Tension:
  The EU "blacklists" raccoons as invasive; France may soon require eradication (39:30).

8. National Identity and Scientific Fact

• Dissonance:
  Even as an “imposter,” the raccoon remains national icon—and few are eager to start hunting or eradicating it.
  • Quote (Sully):

    “I don’t see myself taking a rifle, running to the field and just lying in wait to shoot them.” (40:21)

• Reflection (Robert Krulwich):

  “Every time a nation chooses to identify with some wild thing, it’s mostly really about the people identifying, not about the animal.” (41:23)

9. Final Reflections—Science vs. Meaning

• Helgen’s Take:
  As a scientist, facts should win; but as an outsider, he acknowledges, “This is their island, these are their animals... it can be very challenging for scientists like myself to come to terms with, but that's how the world works.” (42:55–43:51)
• Speculative Hope:
  Some scientists float: if you leave raccoons on Guadeloupe long enough, maybe they’ll eventually evolve into a unique species after all.
  • Quote (Adler):

    “Maybe someday they could be reclassified yet again, this time as real Guadalupian raccoons.” (44:43)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Lois (on raccoon raids): "[The attack] was carnage. It was a massacre." (06:45)
• Jad Abumrad: "So, who or what is doing all this?"
  Lois/Sully: "Raccoons." (04:31)
• Lois (on killing raccoons): "Killing them is a little... a little harsh." (07:39)
• Na Marie Joseph (on Sophie): "When he died, I cried. It was a really, really painful time for me." (15:42)
• Christopher Helgen: "Not only are these, you know, not very different, they are just simply North American raccoons." (33:29)
• Helgen (on the government response):

  "'Thank you very much, but we're going to hold on to our raccoon.'" (35:28)

• Sully (on potential eradication):

  “I don't see myself taking a rifle, running to the field and just lying in wait to shoot them.” (40:21)

• Robert Krulwich (on national animals):

  "Every time a nation chooses to identify with some wild thing, it's mostly really about the people identifying, not about the animal." (41:23)

• Jad (on fact vs. perspective):

  "There is a fact here... but then there's the stuff on top... Are they natural? Are they invasive? Do they belong here? Those don't feel like facts. Those feel like judgments." (41:57)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:56–06:12: Introduction to the raccoon problem on the farm; efforts to fend them off.
• 07:39–09:18: Farmers explain reluctance to kill raccoons; cultural affection for the animal.
• 11:02–13:01: How the raccoon became a symbol of Guadeloupe, protected by law.
• 14:38–15:42: Na’s story about raising a raccoon as a pet.
• 17:08–21:26: Police enforcement of raccoon laws and raccoon "liberation" raid.
• 28:46–34:08: Smithsonian research reveals the raccoon’s true origins.
• 35:28–37:49: Local resistance to changing the raccoon’s official status.
• 40:21–41:23: Sully’s and Lois' take after learning the scientific truth.
• 41:23–42:55: Hosts reflect on meaning, national identity, and scientific fact.

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Conclusion:

"Stranger in Paradise" artfully demonstrates how the stories we tell about nature are inseparable from politics, history, and human need. The Guadalupian raccoon, whether scientifically special or not, is now a cultural touchstone—one endangered more by reclassification than extinction. The episode closes with the core challenge: What happens when scientific truth collides with cultural meaning? And who ultimately gets to decide?

Final reflection from Christopher Helgen:

"It’s important… but at the same time, it’s really a question for Guadeloupe. This is their island, these are their animals..." (42:55)

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For listeners:
This episode is an exploration of the tangled web between science and identity, focusing on a Caribbean island whose beloved mascot turns out not to be what anyone thought it was—a true Radiolab curiosity trip.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Okay.

[C]

All right.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

All right.

[A]

You're listening to Radiolab Radio Lab from wnyc.

[D]

That lime doesn't cut it very much. That gets really powerful.

[A]

It's basically straight rum. Yeah. This is a very traditional Guadalupian drink called Ti Punch.

[D]

As in punch?

[A]

As in punch.

[B]

Ready? Hey, I'm Jad Abumrad.

[D]

I'm Robert Krulwich.

[B]

This is Radiolab.

[D]

Today we're gonna go off to an island.

[B]

Yeah. A small little corner of the globe.

[D]

Which in its very surprising way is trying to figure out how to understand itself, buffet itself and protect itself against.

[B]

The whims of the wider world.

[D]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Comes to us from our reporter, Simon Adler.

[A]

So I went to Guadeloupe a couple weeks back, which is this French overseas department, basically a territory of.

[D]

Where's Guadeloupe?

[A]

Guadeloupe is this series of islands in the Caribbean, bit east of puerto Rico and 400 miles north of Venezuela, more or less. Okay, so just landed. The Runway we landed on here was just bordered on both sides by these super lush green walls of flora. I have no idea what they were. And the story I want to tell actually starts on a watermelon farm. It's okay if I park here? Okay. Owned by this couple, Sully and Lois. Thank you so much for being willing to do this. They look to be in their late 40s.

[E]

Not a problem.

[A]

So how many Sully had on a pair of glasses, T shirt and cut off blue jeans? I'll just introduce you to my wife and Lois.

[F]

Bonjour. Nice to meet you.

[A]

Very nice to meet you.

[G]

How are you?

[A]

Was wearing one of those floppy hats and big rubber boots. Okay, good. So you were born here in Guadeloupe?

[E]

Yeah, I was born in Guadeloupe, yes.

[A]

In what part of Guadalupe?

[E]

I was born in Punta Pitt.

[A]

So after growing up in Guadeloupe and graduating, Sully decided to get off the island for a bit. Went overseas for work in Guyana.

[E]

The ex British Guyana.

[A]

Met Lois and fell in love. It's true.

[E]

Anyway, then I came back to Guadeloupe 20 years ago to establish myself in a farming area.

[A]

Did you buy this farm right here?

[E]

Actually, I didn't buy it, the land was in a family for a long time. Okay. So I decided just to give them a hand. And then we ended up staying. So, you know.

[A]

Oh, so it wasn't planned that you would be.

[E]

It wasn't planned at.

[F]

Not at all.

[A]

And eventually they kind of fell in love with farming.

[E]

We enjoy it. It's a new, a different way of living.

[A]

You know, they've got like 60 acres of land, these rolling hills bordered by the ocean, filled with their crops.

[E]

Tomatoes, sweet peppers, pumpkins, and watermelons. Watermelons are main crop.

[H]

Yeah.

[A]

So Sully and Lois took me out to their actual farm.

[F]

So this is the. Oops. These are what we have to harvest still.

[A]

And there in this field, I was surrounded by just hundreds and hundreds of these enormous watermelon. These are huge.

[F]

Yes. They weigh about 20 to 25 pounds.

[A]

And this was actually why I was there, because these watermelon in this field for the past 15 years have been under attack. This one, this one is another one that was punctured.

[F]

And this one is fresh.

[A]

Oh, man. Okay. They've been here recently.

[F]

Yes. Like last night. Still red. It's still fresh.

[A]

And there's this golf ball sized hole bored into the side of it.

[F]

It has a diameter of maybe 2 inches.

[A]

And the watermelon itself had just been emptied out. It's incredible. It's like a deflated ball.

[F]

And you walk on and it's the same thing and the same thing and the same thing.

[A]

This field was just littered with hollow water.

[F]

This is the worst attack we've had in about three years. As I said, they did it specially because you were coming.

[D]

I'd like to ask this because I think it's time. Who or what is doing all this?

[F]

Raccoons.

[E]

Raccoons.

[A]

Raccoons.

[B]

Raccoons, of course, raccoons.

[A]

Yes. Those masked bandits with those little tiny.

[D]

Hands and the adorable sort of brownness.

[B]

No, not adorable at all.

[A]

I think they're kind of cute.

[B]

No, they're so not cute. No, no and no.

[A]

But even if you think they're horrible, you have to give them that. They are clever. They were sneaking into Sully and Lois field at night, finding the biggest RIP watermelon in the patch, boring a tiny hole into it, scraping out the juicy innards. They just scoop it out and chowing down.

[F]

It's a fiesta.

[A]

And for Sully and Lois, this was a huge problem.

[E]

You're pissed off anyway. On a quarter of an acre, you're able to lose a third of it.

[A]

A third of the watermelon. Crop would just be eaten.

[E]

Yes. Meaning it could go up to 20% of your revenue. Yeah, sure.

[A]

Thousands of dollars.

[E]

So we couldn't stand this loss is too much. We had to do something. We had to fight.

[D]

So what do they do?

[A]

Well, so 15 years ago, Sully and Lois declare war.

[B]

Meaning what?

[A]

Well, to start with, we put an.

[F]

Electric fence around our field.

[A]

Zap them, keep them away. Okay, but pretty quick, they know to.

[F]

Put a branch and walk on the branch and get into your field.

[A]

Anyway, they built a sort of bridge.

[B]

You mean they would walk over the branches?

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

Oh, wow.

[A]

So then they've got to try something new this time. They're like, we have to be there.

[E]

At night chasing them.

[A]

We'll blast music at them.

[E]

We'll run around with lights, with sound, with music.

[A]

At one point, Sully even stooped to just throwing rocks at the raccoons.

[F]

He picked up a rock and he just bounced.

[E]

I'm a good pelter, but you can't stay in the field all night long.

[A]

So next thing they decide to try is, okay, let's put some traps out in the field.

[E]

We tried to trap some, but they're very smart.

[A]

These big metal sort of tripwire cages.

[F]

But one day there was no trap. We found a trap in the woods and it was all bent up.

[A]

Wait, they run away with the trap?

[F]

With the trap, yes.

[A]

The raccoons were actually destroying them.

[E]

Sometimes we just touched them and say, oh, shucks.

[A]

So for their final attempt, they decided.

[E]

Okay, we had to try the dogs.

[A]

Guard dogs. Put guard dogs in the field.

[F]

But the next day when we came, it was.

[E]

It was.

[F]

It was carnage. It was. It was a massacre.

[A]

The raccoons killed one of your dogs.

[F]

Exactly. All of his intestines were outside. So it was a jewel to the death.

[E]

Oh, yeah. Witty.

[F]

So you know what kind of animal you're dealing with.

[B]

This confirms every feeling I have about raccoons. They are not just clever, they are fierce and immoral animals.

[D]

There is good and bad in everyone. And these were obviously not very nice raccoons. And if I were in Lois and.

[A]

Sully's position, of course I would shoot these raccoons.

[B]

Is that what they did?

[D]

Well, or poison them, Something.

[A]

Well, yeah. I thought that if anybody would be on board with some sort of eradication campaign, it would be Sully and Lewis. Right. But when I floated this idea by them, if I was you, I would want to kill those raccoons. They just kind of looked at me funny.

[F]

Killing them is a little.

[A]

A little harsh, but they're attacking your livelihood.

[F]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

It's hard. I'm trying to understand how you.

[F]

I know it sounds strange because I myself, putting myself in your position, I would find it strange too.

[E]

It's just maybe a sentimental feeling, you know?

[D]

Wait, why Sentimental feelings?

[B]

What does that mean?

[A]

Well, here's the thing. The people of Guadeloupe, they acknowledge that these raccoons are super destructive. They know that they are attacking not only watermelon farms, but goat farms and chicken farms, that they're going and tipping over trash cans in downtown Pont a Pitt. But yet simultaneously, they adore them. Just very lovely. So lovely.

[C]

Of course, we love the raccoon.

[A]

They put them on their postcards. We just think it's so cute. Driving down their main highways, you see billboards where people's logos for their. Advertisements for their. For their tire company. Is a raccoon. Like, it's everywhere. There is a statue of a raccoon at the zoo bin venue. Zoo de Guadeloupe. They're the number one exhibit here. They are the first thing you see when you walk in. We have many in the trees there. Oh, wow. Couple up there like monkeys. And on the way out of the zoo. Can we follow you?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. When you walk into the gift shop, got a coffee cup with a raccoon on it, a snow globe with a raccoon in it, keychains. Might have to get one of those. People love the raccoon people. People are raccoon crazy on this island.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Well, it's really complicated. It has to do with the history of the island. It has to do with who came to the island when and who gets to say what happens on the island. It has to do with power. Like who?

[D]

You're talking about a raccoon here.

[F]

That's still.

[A]

Yeah. All of these problems and ideas are inside the raccoon's tail. In fact, in its tail, the T of the raccoon and the tale about the raccoon.

[B]

Yeah, you gotta unpack this for us.

[D]

Explain this a little better.

[A]

Well, the trouble all started.

[C]

In 1911.

[A]

With this guy, Garrett Miller. He was a scientist working at the national museum in D.C. this, by the way, is Blandine Guimont. She works for the Wildlife Police. Spoke to my interpreter, Sally Stagna, and she told us one day, Miller was just hanging out in his office when a box showed up from Guadeloupe, and he opened it up and found Racoul Mort.

[C]

A very much dead raccoon.

[H]

Yeah. A sort of misshapen skin and like an accompanying Skull.

[A]

This is Christopher Helgen, curator of mammals.

[H]

At the National Museum of Natural History, part of the Smithsonian Institution.

[A]

Actually has the same job that Miller had back in 1911. Anyway, this raccoon that Miller had in front of him looked a lot like.

[H]

The North American raccoon, but it was small and different in quite subtle ways.

[A]

And so, after some inspection, Miller baptized.

[C]

The Guadalupean raccoon a distinct species, scientific name Procyon minor.

[A]

Procyon minor, the Guadalupian raccoon.

[H]

Putting a name on it and recognizing it as a new species implied a deep history of the presence of raccoons in Guadalupe.

[A]

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years. And over these millennia, these raccoons had evolved into their own distinct species found.

[H]

Nowhere else on the planet.

[D]

So is that when the Guadalupians began to love raccoons? When they realized they had their own, you know, one and only?

[A]

Yeah, but. Well, it took a while to catch on. I mean, this discovery was initially only being talked about in these arcane academic scientific journals. It's not like this discovery was on the. Was on the front page of the Guadalupian Times or anything. But then in the 1980s, conservation really came into its own. Scientists started worrying about species disappearing from the planet, and in particular, they started worrying about this raccoon.

[H]

These raccoons were being recognized as potentially endangered.

[A]

Thought being, they're only on these islands. There probably aren't that many of them. Like, we've got to protect these things.

[I]

Oui, c'.

[F]

Est?

[A]

And so, since Guadeloupe is an overseas French department, France decided to do just that. February 17, 1989, legislation was created to protect the raccoon. And shortly after the passage of this law, Guadeloupe opened up its first national park.

[C]

And the raccoon became the mascot, the symbol of the national park.

[A]

And as the mascot of this new national park.

[C]

It really became that symbol of protected species.

[H]

It was celebrated.

[C]

People were like, okay, nice. We love the raccoon.

[A]

And more than just a symbol of the importance of protecting the natural environment of Guadeloupe, over time, the raccoon became, in a way, a symbol of Guadeloupe itself.

[C]

It's really that symbol for people. Like, you can definitely see it as the world eagle in the U.S.

[H]

Aside from raccoons, you didn't really have hardly any other mammals that are native to these islands, apart from bats. And so if the raccoon is the one furry critter running around that everyone can point to and say, this is something special. You know, this is not the same as a raccoon you'd find anywhere else. That is an exciting thing. It's a powerful thing and a point of pride, I think.

[C]

I mean, we're not late in this time zone. Okay, Come in.

[A]

Okay. Bonjour. Very good to meet you. How are you? Vous avait la Je n' arrange pas les chose.

[C]

You know, age doesn't help things.

[A]

This is Na Marie Joseph. And you were born here in Guadeloupe?

[E]

We.

[C]

Yes. Yes, indeed.

[A]

She's an older woman, maybe in her 70s, wearing this pink floral dress. Her house was right on the highway with a field in the back. And that, she says, is where the raccoons would hang out.

[C]

There was a whole bunch of them just, like, chilling in the area because all this behind the house was sugar cane. They actually came and fed on the sugar cane. I loved seeing them. I mean, there was always some type of pleasure and excitement, like seeing those raccoons out there. And at some point, there was one that we really became acquainted with.

[A]

At that point, she scooched her chair over and picked up this black and white photo that was sitting on her dining room table and inspected it. Can I see the photo that you have here?

[C]

Basically, what's on the picture is Sophie, and I'm feeding her bread that I dip into milk.

[A]

Sophie was a pet raccoon that Nag had back in the late 80s. And she talked about Sophie as if she were her child. You're making the gesture of, like, cradling a baby.

[C]

He would run around and, like, every time I called her name and everything, like, she would just, like, come running. I was really close to him and, like, when other people came to visit, they could see that I had this rare wild animal with me.

[A]

And at one point, she got really.

[G]

Quiet.

[A]

And grasped the photo very tightly. You're holding it to your heart.

[C]

When he died, I cried. I cried his name. It was a really, really painful time for me. It's important sometimes to have something of your.

[A]

I almost got the sense that having this raccoon as its national animal was a way for Guadeloupe to distinguish itself from France.

[H]

What do you mean?

[A]

Guadeloupe has always been pushing against France, trying to declare some sort of cultural or national independence. In fact, just a couple years before this, this law was passed. A group called the Guadeloupe Liberation army, this group that was fighting for independence from France, blew up a section of Guadeloupe's airport. A studio in the government owned TV Station, even a Chanel fashion perfume store in central Paris. The explosion tore out windows and doors and left racks of high fashion clothing in shreds. And it felt to me like in some small way, the raccoon had become a way for the Guadalupeans to say to France, this is ours, not yours. And because of that, it also became a point of tension between France and Guadeloupe.

[B]

Yeah. What do you mean by that?

[A]

Well, the morning after I met up with na, I went to this police station. Good to see you. To talk to these police officers. Do you mind saying your name for me?

[H]

Louis Laure.

[B]

David Roset.

[A]

David Rollo.

[D]

Anthony.

[A]

Anthony. Jean. Simon Simone, as well as a couple others. All of them but one were white and French. They were stationed here in Guadeloupe. And they took us up into this sort of war room, which was the second story of this bungalow type building out in the middle of the jungle. Everybody was sitting around this makeshift boardroom table. And pretty quick after the meeting started, they booted up this PowerPoint. They've got a PowerPoint up with a.

[H]

Picture of a raccoon displayed up against the wall here.

[A]

This image of a raccoon crouched down in this chicken wire cage.

[D]

Wait, so what's going. What is going on?

[A]

Well, they're planning a raid to liberate this raccoon. In fact, they had the location where it was being held mapped out with entry points designated. They even had the license plate number of the man believed to be holding the raccoon.

[B]

And why exactly are they doing this?

[A]

Well, because as Anthony Grosaud, the leader of this whole operation, explained to me, the law passed in France back in 1989 declaring the raccoon as a protected species. It specifically outlawed killing raccoons, transporting raccoons, and even pour l' agrament pour le.

[C]

Plaisir, having raccoons for pleasure. You can't raise a raccoon as your own pet. Sometimes we're taking away a child of the family, literally. But in France, the losses, they can't be held as pets. And as a police officer, and here I'm speaking as a police officer, I have to be here to enforce the law, period. No questions asked.

[A]

And so once the briefing was over, they headed outside, strapped their pistols to their belts, threw the rest of their gear in the back of these SUVs and took off. Everyone is rolling out. We're in three vehicles, and 20 minutes later, we arrive at the top of this hill, peering down into this lush, dense jungle. We're walking down this driveway into the forest. We get halfway down the hill and. Someone here. Yeah, apparently someone is here in this clearing. We spot this man. He doesn't see us. There's a guy in a red shirt with a camouflage hat on. He's got his hand behind his back. The cops tell us it's too dangerous, you guys can't go any further. And so Sally and I duck behind some trees. And then Simone and Anthony, wearing a wireless microphone, rush into the clearing to confront him. Antony started grilling him a bit, asked him if he knew about the law, said he did. And even though I was like 30 yards away, I could see that the guy just seemed confused. Pretty harmless.

[C]

They're all good here.

[A]

He's cooperating right away. Please, please. He told them where the raccoon was. There he is in this chicken wire cage behind this giant tree. Cute little guy, this rough looking raccoon. They pull out a toolbox, wire cutters. Raccoon is grabbing the wire cutter like it thought it was playtime or dinner time. They cut open the cage, reached into it with these thick leather gloves, and then they grabbed it by the neck and threw it into this kind of dog carrier box thing. And the mission is a success.

[C]

It went as swimmingly as you know, you could get.

[B]

I gotta say, this whole thing sounds a little.

[G]

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[I]

Hey, I'm Molly Webster and this is an ad by BetterHelp. So it happens every year. The seasons are changing, the days are getting shorter, and basically once it becomes dark outside of my window, I feel like the rest of the world disappears, and I'm just alone. And there's nothing left to do but watch television. This November, Better Help is asking everyone to reach out to our people. That could be your family, your friends, your neighbors, and to resist this call of the cocoon. And yeah, reaching out can take some courage. I've got text messages from January I haven't responded to. And you know what? I'm going to write them back right now. Hi, sorry I've been missing. How are you? Why don't we all do this sooner? Therapy is the same way. BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. You just fill out a short questionnaire and they find a licensed therapist who they think you'll like. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com Radiolab that's betterhelp.com Radiolab.

[G]

Radiolab is supported by Planet Visionaries, the podcast created in partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. The show is hosted by Alex Honnold, who you may recognize from Free Solo, where he climbed El Capitan without ropes. And now he's turning his focus to the biggest challenge of all, protecting the only planet we've got. Every episode brings you stories that prove climate optimism isn't naive, it's a strategy. The episodes span the globe, from Arctic scientists and Amazon forest guardians to entrepreneurs reimagining fashion and food systems. You'll hear from explorers, scientists, activists and storytellers who are working to reshape the future in practical, human ways. In one episode, Alex sits down with wildlife photographer Bertie Gregory to discuss how animals can teach humans resiliency, empathy and hope in partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative. Check out Planet Visionaries Listen or watch on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A]

This is Tonya Moseley, co host of Fresh Air. You'll see your favorite actors, directors and comedians on late night TV shows or YouTube. But what you get with Fresh Air is a deep dive. Spend some quality time with people like Billie Eilish Questlove, Ariana Grande, Stephen Colbert, and so many more. We ask questions you won't hear asked anywhere else. Listen to the Fresh Air podcast from NPR and whyyy.

[B]

I don't know.

[D]

A little much for this for just releasing a pet.

[A]

Yeah, no, agreed. But we're gonna go on foot, basically. Okay. Later that morning, we went on this second raid. What are we expecting from this scenario? And the seriousness clicked into place. For me.

[C]

It'S really a different setting.

[A]

We walked into this courtyard surrounded by maybe 10 houses, many of them Made of sheet metal. And do we know where the raccoon is supposed to be?

[C]

It's right there under those trees.

[A]

He pointed at this pile of trash surrounding this enormous white cage. And there inside was this golden looking raccoon.

[C]

There's houses all around. So we need to see who is really in charge of this raccoon.

[A]

But before the officers could do anything to free it, a crowd started to gather.

[H]

No, no, no, no.

[A]

A woman has just arrived.

[C]

Basically. What's going on?

[A]

Three or four people showed up. Headsets started poking out of windows. And Sally overheard one of them saying.

[C]

Someone snitched and said that there was a raccoon in the area.

[A]

She said someone snitched? Yes. And I suddenly realized that all of the officers were very on edge.

[C]

We're just going to leave.

[A]

Why can't we just take the raccoon?

[C]

Just for safety reasons. They don't want to stay here too long.

[A]

And we got out of there. So tell me what was going on in that second situation? Because a lot of it was over my head.

[C]

I mean, it's really understanding the context, the setting. I mean, this is not just the police. I mean, it's white police forces coming into an overwhelmingly black and poor neighborhood. That has a lot of significance in this context.

[A]

In fact, when I was talking to NA about this the night before. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. She said that if police officers had ever come to try to take Sophie.

[C]

I mean, they would have had to take me in as well. I would have taken my. My husband's gun and I would have, you know, I would have shot.

[B]

When we come back from break, the tail thickens.

[D]

We'll be right back.

[A]

This is Timothy Franzik calling from Stillwater, Minnesota. Radiolab is supported in part by the.

[B]

Alfred P. Sloan foundation, enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. More information about [e-mail]. I'm Jad Abumrad.

[D]

I'm Robert Krulwich.

[B]

This is Radiolab. And we're back with reporter Simon Adler, who's telling us the story of the Guadalupian raccoon, which, as we just heard, for the people of Guadalupe is both a point of pride and a point of tension.

[A]

We are in the back rooms here.

[H]

Beyond the public areas. Exactly.

[A]

And to understand what happens next, we're.

[H]

Going up to the sixth floor of the museum.

[A]

We have to go to the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History here in the US with mammalogist Christopher Helg.

[H]

Where we are now is what's called the Type collection, the world's largest, largest library, essentially of dead mammals.

[A]

I have to say, for such a grand place, it's a little visually underwhelming. Basically just a bunch of locked white cabinets.

[H]

But that said, the behind the scenes area where the real treasures are stored.

[A]

Can we take a quick detour so I can explain what he means by that?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Okay, so scientists, taxonomists, their job is to name and differentiate species. So how do they do that? Well, let's talk about sharks, because sharks are kind of cool animals, right? Imagine there's this shark species, it's swimming around, it's having a great time, and at some point, half of the sharks in this shark population decide to leave to go somewhere else. I don't know, they go to deeper waters or to a different ocean. They get cut off from their previous shark family. They don't see them for a long time. And over thousands or maybe a million years, they. They actually start evolving on their own as sort of a new type of shark.

[D]

They become different enough that they've become a new species.

[A]

That's what the scientists come in and try to figure out.

[B]

Now, how do they make that determination?

[A]

Well, so basically it's a comparison game. They compare them to the old sharks. Do they look the same? Are their dorsal fins taller or shorter? They'll look at how they behave in the water, how they move through the world. Is that different nowadays? They'll even just do genetic work. And if they decide it is a new species of shark, at that point they do this sort of wacky thing that I had no idea about. Once they've decided that this shark is a new species, scientists will go and kill one of these sharks. They will stuff it, put it in a box, and then they will store it in a locked cabinet in a natural history museum somewhere.

[H]

Because ever after, for hundreds of years, that specimen becomes kind of a gold standard. The definition of that species, there's a different key for types than others. Every kind of moth or mite or mollusk or mammal, every oak tree, every kind of zebra. Somewhere in the world there is a museum cabinet where locked down, there is a physical specimen of that organism.

[B]

So it's like, it literally is like the natural museum histories of the world are like the library, the card catalog.

[D]

Card catalog of life.

[H]

Yeah.

[A]

And the room that Helgen took me into in the sixth floor of the Smithsonian, it was just cabinet after cabinet after cabinet after cabinet filled with these.

[H]

Type specimens, including the Guadalupe raccoon type.

[A]

Specimen, the very specimen Miller inspected back in 1911.

[H]

So here we go.

[A]

Helgen bent down and opened this one particular cabinet.

[H]

I'm pulling out a big metal drawer, and inside. Well, here it is.

[A]

This is it right here.

[H]

Here it is right in front of you.

[A]

This sort of ratty looking taxidermy dracoon.

[H]

It's maybe not the most pretty sight. Now, the ears are a little bit broken and bitten off.

[A]

Some of the stuffing was coming out.

[H]

Of the belly, but that's probably how it arrived.

[A]

Now, Helgen first saw this raccoon back in 2000, and one of the first things he did was turned it over.

[H]

And looked at it.

[A]

And it's small, maybe like 18 inches long, something like that, just like Miller had reported. But then he popped open this little white box that had the skull in.

[H]

It and take a look. What do you see here?

[A]

He pointed at his fine white lines crisscrossing the dome.

[H]

These are open sutures which show that the skull is still growing. In other words, it's not an adult.

[A]

Which to Helgen was a big deal, because ever since being a kid, he was suspicious of the Guadalupian raccoon.

[H]

It didn't add up to me. I just had a suspicion of, you know, these Caribbean raccoons. Didn't make sense.

[A]

He said, if you look at islands, they usually don't have just one, one native mammal species walking around. This made Guadalupe an outlier.

[H]

And so I'm gonna put it on this tray.

[A]

The fact that this thing was a kid meant that there was nothing special, at least about its size.

[H]

And by the time I laid my hands on this one and looked at the skin and skull, I'd seen so many raccoons in museum collections that I knew their skulls and teeth really well. And so when I saw this, one of the first things I noticed is that there was just nothing that looked any different to me from the common raccoon, the North American raccoon.

[A]

And so Helgen decided to do some genetic work. He compared the DNA of these Guadalupian raccoons against North American ones, did the.

[H]

Math, we made the comparisons, and a clear answer came through. Not only are these, you know, not very different, they are just simply North American raccoons.

[B]

You mean Guadalupian raccoons are the same ones that come and, and torment my garbage cans?

[H]

The exact same raccoon, the common, literally garden variety raccoon that we have in our own backyard.

[A]

Now, for scientists and conservationists, it is a real turnabout.

[H]

You know, it goes from being distinct Special endemic, you know, found nowhere else to just the opposite, invasive species.

[A]

So when Helgen started publishing papers on The Raccoon in 2002, conservationists, we're excited.

[H]

Because raccoons, they can have real impacts. They will do things like eat sea turtles, birds, nests, bird eggs, including of some that are potentially endangered. They'll eat that.

[A]

Wait, so they were herding actual endangered species?

[H]

Yeah.

[A]

And so now that they have proof, now that they are certain that this raccoon doesn't belong here, then they feel finally we're going to be able to go out and start doing something about this. Protect the actually special ones, get rid of this one. Sort of fake. But putting conservation aside, what you've got is this native to the island, national icon animal that has suddenly become an.

[H]

Interloper, brought there within the last 200.

[A]

Years, probably just on a boat, huh?

[B]

Well, given everything that you've told us about the colonial history, how did the Guadalupians react to this?

[H]

Well, well, we went down in 2004, Helgen and his mentor to Guadeloupe, and we talked to some people associated with the zoo and with the government management of the park. And it was just a very brief conversation.

[A]

He made sure that they had heard the news.

[H]

You know, guys, this raccoon that's found only in your country, it's not what you thought it was and it doesn't belong here. And I remember that the message that came back to us was essentially, thank you very much, but we're going to hold on to our raccoon.

[A]

Meaning, according to Blandy and Guimont, there.

[C]

Was no major communication campaign held to make sure that the population knew that there was a change in status.

[A]

The government never really told it. And when someone did say something like Gerard Berry here, he's a native Guadalupean, longtime conservationist.

[C]

You know, a few years back, I was interviewed by a reporter and I told him what I knew for a fact. And everyone was just saying, you know, off with his head. Some of my friends were like, how could you possibly say this? You know, you should not have said this. This is bad.

[A]

And so for over a decade now, nothing has changed. The laws haven't been amended. And because the government's kept this so hush hush, many people on these islands still don't know the truth. Well, so my understanding of the story is for many, many years there was this thought that, in fact, I accidentally broke the news to na Very recently, it was discovered that, no, in fact, it's the same species that lives in the United States. Does that change your feelings about Sophie or about the Guadalupian raccoon in general?

[C]

You can find it in the United States. But wait, so is it possible that maybe it was brought to the United States?

[A]

The scientists say that it was brought here from the United States.

[C]

I mean, I always thought that the raccoon was really endemic to Guadalupe. It is kind of sad for me to know that it's not endemic to Guadalupe. I mean, I wish it would have been so, to be honest.

[A]

And then I had the even less enviable task of informing NA that just this past July, The EU passed this regulation. We recognize that we cannot act on all the thousands, basically a blacklist of invasive species whose negative impacts concern the European Union. The thing is, particularly in Germany, the raccoon is terribly invasive. These raccoons have actually been called Nazi raccoons as they spread from Germany throughout the continent. And so the raccoon made the list. And that means that member states like France, and thus very likely overseas agencies like Guadalupe, will have to start managing or even eradicating them. From the folks I've spoken with, there's a good possibility that in the next year the raccoon is going to change from being a protected species to being a species that can be hunted, trapped and killed.

[C]

It kills me. It kills me the thought that, you know, people could start hunting raccoons. Like, we have to protect them.

[A]

Ah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not a specific species. Yeah, okay, got it. I just don't care. Angelique Charlotte, owner of the Guadalupe Zoo. Wait, you don't care? No, I don't care. It's just the raccoon of Guadeloupe. But it's kind of an imposter, isn't it? It kind of tricked everyone, didn't it? He's not responsible of the person saying it was another species. People make an error. He didn't do anything.

[F]

You must respect the animal.

[A]

You know, even Sully and Lois, the watermelon farmers from the beginning of this story, said, at the end of the day, if.

[F]

Let's say, they say, okay, as of this date, the raccoons are no longer whatever. I don't see myself taking a rifle, running to the field and just lying in wait to shoot them.

[E]

No, it's just that we have a few type of wildlife, you know, no snake, nothing. So, you know, it's the bigger one, the biggest one. So people adopted it as a national animal. That's it.

[A]

It's one of Those if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with type situation could be.

[F]

That's a good one.

[A]

So as a pragmatic person, I know it's an invasive species today. I know it. But I know also I think he's cute and I think I like it. So what is the best balance to find? You see, I don't know.

[D]

It's kind of interesting that we in America love the bald eagle, a kind of wretched bird that steals other people's nests and is generally a vulgar animal, actually. But we never think of it that way because we've given it majesty and we give it, you know, in its talons. There you see both, you know, peace and war it has been given. We have dressed it up. And I think every time a nation chooses to identify with some wild thing, it's mostly really about the people identifying, not about the animal.

[B]

Yeah, I totally agree, but I see it like this. You have this fact, right? There is a fact here that the raccoons didn't show up a million years ago or whatever. It was probably more like 200 years. That's most probably a fact. But then there's the stuff on top of that, which is like, are they natural? Are they invasive? Do they belong here? Those don't feel like facts. Those feel like judgments. And like, who gets to make those judgments? The scientist? I don't know.

[H]

I certainly didn't realize the extent that this was a deep seated cultural battle in which I was, you know, entering.

[A]

You have inserted yourself. Yes, strongly again, Christopher Helgen.

[H]

It's just the same information, you know, different responses and.

[A]

Well, and I think that one of the deep questions of this story lives in that which is like, you came to a scientific truth, and the question becomes, should that scientific truth win the day?

[H]

I mean, as a scientist, I would say yes. As a conservation biologist, I would say yes. It's important. It shows us that taxonomy really matters. This animal didn't belong and really, perhaps it should be removed from the island. But at the same time, it's really a question for Guadeloupe. This is their island, these are their animals running around on it. And it can be very challenging for scientists like myself to come to terms with, but that's how the world works.

[A]

One more thought before we, before we go. Is that all right?

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

Before Helgen officially sank or dethroned this Guadalupian raccoon, there's actually another guy with a similar hunch, this Parisian mammalogist named J.M. pons. And in one of his papers he wrote that even if it can be proven that the Guadalupian raccoon is no different from the North American raccoon, that the best answer might not be its reclassification or eradication, but instead it's isolation. He wrote that its, quote, insular distribution prevents gene exchange with the mainland and is likely to warrant different selective pressures that should favor short term genetic differentiation that may lead to a long term speciation process.

[B]

Wait, what does that mean?

[A]

Meaning if they were able to keep these North American raccoons on Guadeloupe isolated long enough, maybe someday they could be reclassified yet again, this time as real Guadalupian raccoons. What's your response to that?

[H]

I don't know if Pons said that, but, you know, I like it. But I have to say, you're going to be waiting a long time.

[A]

That's gonna take a while.

[D]

We want to give super, super thanks to Sally Stagnier, who was our translator and got Simon everywhere he needed to go and made sure that it all worked out. And to Ally Pinell here in New York, who helped us make sense of the whole thing before we left. So we owe her a huge debt.

[B]

Thanks also to Herve Magnon, David Xavier, Albert Lawrence, Baptiste Salomon and Florian Kirschner. And most especially thanks to Simon Adler who reported and produced the whole story. Yeah, I want to read you guys this one paragraph real quick. Can we, before we go, sign off?

[D]

About what?

[B]

Because you know how we were arguing about whether the raccoon is a good creature or an immoral creature and I was looking for ammunition on the Internet to find, to read to you guys.

[I]

Oh, that was.

[A]

That was.

[B]

And I found this thing. I found this thing. It's in a blog called the Truth About Raccoons.

[D]

Oh, boy.

[B]

And it's in. It contains this paragraph, which I'm pretty sure is not true. It goes, and I quote, raccoons are one of the only land mammals who can also walk on the bottom of riverbeds holding their breath for up to an hour.

[C]

What?

[B]

They eat both live prey and carry on and consume up to 20 pounds of raw meat at a time, then go without food for a week. Their skeletal structure is found in no other animal. And that, combined with their ferocity and complete lack of moral fiber, make them perhaps our most dangerous enemy. I rest my case.

[G]

That was no case.

[D]

That was just propagated. That was hate speech.

[F]

Message one.

[C]

Hi, my name is Sally Seigne from Weblooth interpreter. So I'm reading the staff credits right now. Radiolab is produced by Jad Evan Rad. Dylan Keith is our director of sound design. Lauren Wheeler is senior editor. Jamie York is our senior producer. Our staff includes Simon Adler, Brenna Ferrell, David Jebel, Matt Hilty, Robert Krulwitz, Annie McEwen, Lapid, Nassair, Melissa O', Donnell, Arianne Wack, and Molly Western, with help from Tracy Hunt, Valentina Bohanini, Nigar Fatali, Phoebe Wang, and Katie Ferguson. Our fact checker is Michelle Harry. All right, that's it. Thank you. Bye bye.

[A]

End of message.