Terrestrials: The Snow Beast

Summary

Radiolab Episode Summary: "Terrestrials: The Snow Beast"

Release Date: May 2, 2025
Hosts: Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser
Produced by: WNYC Studios

---

Introduction: Unveiling the Snow Beast

The episode "Terrestrials: The Snow Beast" embarks on a captivating journey to uncover the mysteries surrounding a newly discovered ancient creature in the Arctic. Hosted by Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser, the narrative intertwines paleobiology, evolutionary history, and personal anecdotes to present an enthralling story of discovery and reimagined natural history.

Discovery in the Arctic: Natalia Rybczynski's Breakthrough

The story centers around Natalia Rybczynski, a dedicated paleobiologist known affectionately as "Dr. Dead Things." In May 2006, Natalia leads an expedition to Ellesmere Island, Canada, a remote and frigid location north of the Arctic Circle. Amid relentless searches through prehistoric leaf beds—accumulations of ancient plant matter—Natalia stumbles upon an unexpected find:

Natalia Rybczynski [07:20]: "With the hand lens, I could tell the cross section had these little pores. And that's the giveaway that it was bone."

This bone fragment, approximately three and a half million years old, challenges existing knowledge by suggesting the presence of a sizable mammalian creature in an area previously thought devoid of such remains. Natalia's meticulous work leads her to piece together a skeletal puzzle, ultimately revealing the bone belonged to a camel.

Camels: North America's Forgotten Giants

Contrary to contemporary beliefs that associate camels exclusively with desert environments, Natalia's discovery sheds light on their extensive prehistoric presence in North America. For nearly 40 of the 45 million years camels existed on Earth, they roamed North America, flourishing alongside species like beavers and black bears.

Latif Nasser [15:13]: "What? So like, alongside just all the things we think of in North America, like, I don't know, black bears and badgers."

The narrative details the diverse camel species, ranging from rabbit-sized camels with long necks to those resembling crocodiles, highlighting their adaptability and the evolutionary marvels that allowed them to thrive in various climates.

Reimagining Camel Adaptations for the Arctic

The episode challenges the conventional perception of camel adaptations being solely for desert survival. Natalia proposes that the very traits that make camels quintessential desert dwellers—long lashes, tough mouths, large feet, and humps—were initially advantageous in snowy environments.

Lulu Miller [20:25]: "Her theory is maybe all the body parts that make us think they're, you know, quintessentially hot desert creatures. What if those in initially made it good in the snow?"

To explore this theory, the hosts visit Shane Rigdon's farm in Wisconsin, where camels like Peanut thrive in snowy conditions. Through hands-on interactions and playful demonstrations, they illustrate how camel features are equally beneficial in snow as they are in the desert:

• Eyes: Serve as built-in windshield wipers against snowstorms.
• Mouth: Adapted to consume tough winter shrubs and brambles.
• Feet: Function like snowshoes, preventing sinking into deep snow.
• Humps: Store fat, providing energy reserves during prolonged winters.

Latif Nasser [24:15]: "Keeps you warm and gives you food."

These insights not only reinforce Natalia's hypothesis but also bridge the gap between historical evolution and modern-day applications, suggesting camels could play a pivotal role in adapting to future climate challenges.

Interactive Exploration: Q&A with Experts

The episode features an engaging Q&A segment where listeners pose intriguing questions to Natalia and Shane, further delving into the nuances of camel biology and paleobiology methods:

• Question from Anissa [29:08]: "Have you ever tasted a potential fossil to see if it's legit?"

  Natalia Rybczynski [29:37]: "I've licked a fossil. If you pick up a bone out of the ground and then if you lick it, you'd be like, oh, look, it's. It actually is a nice shiny little tooth."

• Question from Walter [29:59]: "Does camels make milk?"

  Shane Rigdon [30:02]: "Yeah, it's. It's special. It's salty and it's thick. But camel milk is actually really, really good for people that are lactose intolerant too."

These interactions add depth to the narrative, showcasing the blend of scientific inquiry and personal experience that defines Radiolab's storytelling approach.

Conclusion: Camels as Future Survivors

Wrapping up the episode, Natalia emphasizes the resilience of camels, positioning them as ideal candidates for addressing future environmental challenges:

Natalia Rybczynski [26:34]: "These are the animals of the future because they're so resilient. If we think about the future in a much hotter Earth with drought and these unexpected weather changes."

Proposals to reintroduce camels to the USA as farm animals are discussed, highlighting their ability to endure extreme heat and manage underbrush prone to wildfires—issues increasingly pertinent in today's climate context.

Lulu Miller [26:44]: "And there are serious proposals on the table to bring camels back to the USA to be farm animals because they can better endure the heat and because they could graze on all that spiny underbrush that can catch fire so easily and cause wildfires to spread."

The episode concludes with a reflective note on adaptability and the unforeseen paths evolution can take, leaving listeners with a profound appreciation for the intricate tapestry of life on Earth.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Natalia Rybczynski [07:20]: "With the hand lens, I could tell the cross section had these little pores. And that's the giveaway that it was bone."

• Latif Nasser [15:13]: "What? So like, alongside just all the things we think of in North America, like, I don't know, black bears and badgers."

• Lulu Miller [20:25]: "Her theory is maybe all the body parts that make us think they're, you know, quintessentially hot desert creatures. What if those in initially made it good in the snow?"

• Latif Nasser [24:15]: "Keeps you warm and gives you food."

• Natalia Rybczynski [26:34]: "These are the animals of the future because they're so resilient. If we think about the future in a much hotter Earth with drought and these unexpected weather changes."

---

Key Takeaways

• Rediscovery of North American Camels: The episode unveils that camels once thrived in North America, exhibiting a diversity and adaptability previously unrecognized.

• Evolutionary Adaptations: Camel features traditionally associated with desert survival are reinterpreted as versatile traits beneficial in snowy, harsh environments.

• Future Implications: Camels are posited as resilient animals capable of addressing future climate-induced challenges, such as extreme heat and wildfire management.

• Engaging Storytelling: Radiolab blends investigative journalism with personal narratives and interactive segments, creating an immersive and educational listening experience.

---

"Terrestrials: The Snow Beast" is a testament to Radiolab's commitment to exploring the unknown, challenging preconceived notions, and celebrating the wonders of natural history through compelling storytelling and scientific inquiry.

Transcript

[Lulu Miller]

Radiolab is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try [e-mail], progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law, not available in all states.

[Latif Nasser]

Terrestrials is supported by the John Templeton foundation, funding research and catalyzing conversations that inspire people with awe and wonder. Learn about the latest discoveries in the science of well being, complexity, forgiveness and free [e-mail] listener supported WNYC studios hello, Latif Nasser.

[Lulu Miller]

Hi, Lula Miller.

[Latif Nasser]

This is Radiolab and I'm feeling very gloaty because I finally dragged you onto an episode of Terrestrials.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah, that's true.

[Latif Nasser]

You told a story, you sang, you did the whole thing, and it's really wonderful. And it's about a creature that you, you keep a surprise.

[Lulu Miller]

It's one of my favorite creatures on this planet of ours.

[Latif Nasser]

I feel like it's a signature you story. It's something you told me about a while ago, I've never been able to forget. And it kind of like has the effect of truly turning your sense of nature and the world upside down. And so we're gonna play it here today on Radiolab because there's a new.

[Lulu Miller]

Season of Terrestrials out. Yes. And we're sort of in the middle of it. There are a few already out that you can hear. It's very exciting.

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah, it's all about the monsters among us. And you can go listen to new episodes on the Radiolab for Kids feed. And we're playing this one because I think it's interesting for anyone of any age. Okay, so to get a taste, here we go with Latif's mystery animal, an episode we called the Snow Beast.

[Lulu Miller]

Oh, wait, you're listening.

[Latif Nasser]

Okay. All right. Okay. All right. You're listening to Radio Lab.

[Lulu Miller]

Radio lab from WNYC.

[Latif Nasser]

3, 2, 1.

[Lulu Miller]

Imagine you are one of the toughest snow beasts out there. You can chew thorns, walk barefoot across frigid surfaces, spit a kind of potion to ward off threats. Your face can zip itself away from the frosty winds.

[Latif Nasser]

And at almost nine feet tall, your.

[Lulu Miller]

Long legs can can easily step through deep, deep snow. But for some reason, no one really thinks of you as a snow beast.

[Latif Nasser]

You have become.

[Lulu Miller]

Well, I'm not telling yet.

[Latif Nasser]

Okay, fine. Now is the part where we sing the theme song.

[Lulu Miller]

Oh, am I. Can I join in?

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah, join in.

[Lulu Miller]

Terrestrials, Terrestrials. We are not the worst.

[Alan Ginsky]

We are the best.

[Lulu Miller]

Real.

[Latif Nasser]

Best.

[Lulu Miller]

Real.

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah. I'm your host, Lulu Miller joined as Zoe's Bye Bye songbud. Woo hoo. Alan making snow angels. And today's storyteller is one of my favorite storytellers on the entire planet. My co host at Radiolab, my partner in radio crime, Latif Nasser. Hello.

[Lulu Miller]

Hi. Thanks for having me. Longtime fan.

[Latif Nasser]

And you wanted to do things a little differently today.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah.

[Latif Nasser]

Your animal is a kind of mystery animal, which you will reveal to partway through the show and then we will go meet one. Can we talk about these gnarly, gnarly teeth?

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah. Cause it's an animal, you know, but it's a story about it. You don't. So you know how Batman got all his super crime fighting skills by training on other continents?

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah, I guess.

[Lulu Miller]

Well, this story's a little like that, about the unexpected place our mystery animal evolved all its powers. And like, it's stranger than fiction. Like, you couldn't make up the backstory of this creature. You just couldn't.

[Latif Nasser]

All right, let's do this thing.

[Lulu Miller]

So the story begins with this woman. Her name is Natalia Rybczynski.

[Latif Nasser]

Okay.

[Lulu Miller]

She is what's called a paleo biologist, which basically just means she specializes in digging up old dead stuff.

[Latif Nasser]

Okay.

[Lulu Miller]

She said someone once called her doctor Dead things.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Yeah, that's true. And here she is, mostly animals.

[Lulu Miller]

And over the years, Natalia has come across some very cool ancient creatures that are now extinct, but used to roam the Earth millions of years ago. Such as?

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Oh, well, there's like a deerlet that was.

[Latif Nasser]

I'm sorry, is a deerlet a tiny deer?

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Yes, sort of like a lap deer.

[Lulu Miller]

Maybe an ancient bunny.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

An arctic frog.

[Latif Nasser]

How would a frog survive in the Arctic? Would it have to freeze?

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Yeah, freeze solid.

[Lulu Miller]

Plus the bear, an extinct bear.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

We're still working on the bear.

[Latif Nasser]

Ooh.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah. So kind of that's her job. But it's especially interesting because she does it in really extreme and interesting places. And one day in 2006, she grabs some tools and hops into a helicopter to fly way up north, over 1,000.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Km north of the Arctic Circle, to.

[Lulu Miller]

A almost uninhabited island near the North Pole. Very cold, very remote.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Ellesmere Island, Canada.

[Lulu Miller]

They set up camp.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

There's no one else around. We're living in tents, a trip line around the tents in case a bear comes into the camp at night.

[Latif Nasser]

Ooh.

[Lulu Miller]

And they spend pretty much every waking hour of every day just walking up this kind of giant, steep, sandy hill. Wait a second. The song but just will start singing. Whatever you say.

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah, that's how it works. Pretty cool, huh?

[Lulu Miller]

Love it. Okay, so Natalia and her team, they're just scuffing through the sand, scanning around to see if the melting snow or wind has surfaced. Any little, you know, treasures.

[Alan Ginsky]

Scoff. Scuff.

[Lulu Miller]

People have dug there before, but the only dead stuff anyone had ever found in this area was like, prehistoric plant parts and some insects from millions of years ago. Basically wood from extinct trees, little pieces.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Of moss, stems, leaves, and that's why.

[Lulu Miller]

They called it files, leaf beds.

[Latif Nasser]

Ah, like beds of leaves.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah. So that's what she was expecting to find.

[Alan Ginsky]

Walking, stuffing, searching for something.

[Lulu Miller]

And on this particular day, it's the afternoon, and she finds something just right there, just lying on the surface, the size of my thumb, like, rusty, sort of a color.

[Latif Nasser]

Like a big potato chip or something.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah, a big potato chip's a good way to put it. Okay. So she gets out her hand lens.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

A little magnifying glass.

[Lulu Miller]

She's looking at it real closely and wondering what species of tree it might be. And she's like, wait a second, this thing doesn't actually look like wood. Doesn't have tree rings.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

With the hand lens, I could tell the cross section had these little pores. And that's the giveaway that it was bone. Just a little chunk of bone.

[Lulu Miller]

This is huge. Because as far as she knows, in this 4 million year old leaf pile, she is the first person to ever find a bone.

[Latif Nasser]

Oh, my gosh. Really?

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah.

[Latif Nasser]

Whoa.

[Lulu Miller]

And what's wild is that we could.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Tell from this one scrap that it's a big animal.

[Latif Nasser]

How can you tell that from a tiny scrap?

[Natalia Rybczynski]

You can see the thickness. A long bone that's like an inch thick. So what kind of animal would have that? It would have to be a pretty big animal.

[Latif Nasser]

Huh. So like a moose or a woolly mammoth or like a snow dinosaur. Side note, were there snow dinosaurs?

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Oh, absolutely. We have in the Canadian Arctic and also in Alaska, evidence of dinosaurs.

[Alan Ginsky]

Let's take a break to consider that.

[Latif Nasser]

There used to be snow dinosaurs.

[Alan Ginsky]

And if they slipped and fell down a hill, they'd technically be Sleddy Tyrannosaurus.

[Lulu Miller]

But to find out what creature this really was, Natalia would need to find way more bone fragments. So for years, summer after summer, she kept going back to that exact spot. Just like walking, stuffing, searching for something. Just looking is anything coming up? And she finds more and more pieces.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Of this ancient bone.

[Lulu Miller]

30 fragments.

[Latif Nasser]

It's all these rusty little chips.

[Lulu Miller]

These rusty little chips. Exactly. But what they are kind of is like rusty little puzzle pieces. So she put all these things together. She was like, okay, this is a tibia. It's a leg bone from a mammal. So it could be a cow.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

No, no, this is much bigger.

[Latif Nasser]

Much bigger than a cow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. So you really have, like an arctic beast on your hands here.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lulu Miller]

And that's when Dr. Dead Things does something kind of shocking to this precious ancient bone.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

We took a saw and we just cut off a little corner of it.

[Latif Nasser]

Huh.

[Lulu Miller]

And then right away, they smelt it.

[Latif Nasser]

They smelled the old bone.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah. When they did that, it smelled gross.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

It's kind of like the smell of burning flesh.

[Latif Nasser]

Ew.

[Lulu Miller]

But Natalia knew right away exactly what that smell was. Something called collagen.

[Latif Nasser]

Collagen.

[Lulu Miller]

You can think of collagen, kind of like the glue that holds together your flesh and bones. And it's rare to find it intact in something that old. So Natalia was excited because in the same way detectives could use fingerprints to ID a person.

[Latif Nasser]

Yes.

[Lulu Miller]

Scientists can use collagen to identify. Identify a species.

[Latif Nasser]

Whoa.

[Lulu Miller]

So she takes one of the little fragments of this bone, she puts it basically in an envelope and sends it in the mail to this guy at the University of Manchester.

[Latif Nasser]

He's in England, so it goes over.

[Lulu Miller]

The ocean from Canada to England.

[Latif Nasser]

He opens up his envelope, runs it.

[Lulu Miller]

Through his collagen fingerprinting machinery. Beep, beep, boop, beep, beep, beep, beep. A week goes by, two weeks.

[Latif Nasser]

Are you kind of on pins and needles? Are you feeling excited? Are you feeling like, oh, yeah, I.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Was on vacation, but I was checking my email every day.

[Lulu Miller]

And then he finds a match. This three and a half million year old bone that Natalia had pulled out of the high arctic tundra.

[Latif Nasser]

Uh huh.

[Lulu Miller]

Belong to?

[Latif Nasser]

Yes.

[Lulu Miller]

I'll tell you what it is after the break.

[Latif Nasser]

Ah, come on.

[Lulu Miller]

Radiolab is supported by Capital One Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that Radiolab is his favorite podcast too. Oh, really?

[Latif Nasser]

Thanks.

[Lulu Miller]

Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com Bank Capital One NA Member FDIC. Radiolab is supported by Gobble, the meal kit delivery service created by busy professionals for busy professionals. Their team of award winning chefs handles the peeling, simmering, marinating. So you can serve up a delicious meal in as little as 15 minutes each week. Choose from over 30 meal options, including lean and clean, vegetarian, classic and more recipes, and they'll deliver them right to your doorstep. You'll experience global flavors and gourmet chef prepared ingredients that make you feel like a pro without a single trip to the store. Give Gobble a try today. Visit gobble.com Radiolab to get started with $120 off across your first four boxes. That's gobble.com Radiolab.

[Latif Nasser]

Radiolab is supported by BetterHelp. You've heard it before, but it's worth repeating. The state of your mind is just as important as your physical health. Therapy can be a great way to take care of your mental health and therefore it should feel accessible, not like a luxury. With online therapy, you get quality care at a price that makes sense and can help you with anything from anxiety to everyday stress. It can be helpful for learning positive coping skills and how to set boundaries. I need help with that one all the time and empowers you to be the best version of yourself. With BetterHelp, you pay a flat fee for weekly sessions that can save you big on cost and on time. Your mental health is worth it and now it's within reach. It's convenient too. You can join a session with the click of a button, helping you fit therapy into your busy life plus switch therapists at any time. Your well being is worth it. Visit betterhelp.com Radiolab to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com Radiolab Radiolab is supported by Betterment. When investing your money starts to feel like a second job. Betterment steps in with a little Work Life Balance. It's an automated investing and savings app that handles the work so you don't have to While they build and manage your portfolio, you build and manage your weekend plans. While they make it easy to invest for what matters, you just get to enjoy what matters. Their automated tools simplify the complex and put your money to work optimizing day after day and again and again. So go ahead, take your time to rest and recharge. Because while your money doesn't need a work life balance, you do make your money hustle with Betterment. Get [e-mail] that's B E T T E R m e n t.com investing involves risk performance not guaranteed. Beep boop boop boop beep beep boop. Terrestrials is back. We are about to unveil the identity of a giant ice monster that Dr. Natalia, aka Dr. Dead, has discovered up near the North Pole in Canada. Drumroll, please, for Latif.

[Lulu Miller]

This three and a half million year old bone belonged to.

[Latif Nasser]

Uh huh.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

It's a camel.

[Latif Nasser]

Wait, Camel's like desert hot. Egypt. Yeah, Camel. Yeah, camel that. With the hump that spits and stuff.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah. I mean, the spit is to distract predators, but yeah. Yes.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Yeah. We were stunned.

[Lulu Miller]

So that's like what we're like. Really? So she's like, no, this camels don't live in Canada. As someone having grown up in Canada, I can attest I never saw a camel growing up.

[Latif Nasser]

Huh.

[Lulu Miller]

So they're like, okay, weird. And I had no idea about this until Natalia's story, but surprise, surprise, camels.

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah.

[Lulu Miller]

Are actually originally a North American creature.

[Latif Nasser]

No. What?

[Lulu Miller]

For 40 of the 45 million years that camels have been on planet Earth, they could only be found in North America.

[Latif Nasser]

What? So like, alongside just all the things we think of in North America, like, I don't know, black bears and badgers.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah. Beavers and. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Latif Nasser]

There were camels.

[Lulu Miller]

Camels. There were at least 20 different camel species in North America.

[Latif Nasser]

Whoa.

[Lulu Miller]

Maybe more.

[Latif Nasser]

It was just like camel country over here.

[Lulu Miller]

It was camel country. There was one kind of camel that had a. A really long neck, kind of like a giraffe. Some had snouts like crocodiles.

[Latif Nasser]

Whoa.

[Lulu Miller]

The earliest camels were the size of rabbits.

[Latif Nasser]

Tiny camels, like, with their little hooves.

[Lulu Miller]

This huge diversity of camels across North America.

[Latif Nasser]

It's so wild.

[Lulu Miller]

And you just want a pet rabbit camel. Right.

[Latif Nasser]

It moves so badly immediately I just want to put it under my arm, sit with it on the couch and tickle its little chin.

[Lulu Miller]

Like stroke its hump. Yeah, yeah, totally.

[Latif Nasser]

Paint its n. And in addition to.

[Lulu Miller]

Tiny rabbit camels, thanks to Natalia's discovery, we now know that there were giant arctic camels that weighed a ton, were way taller than today's camel, like as tall as a school bus, and would have been totally at home in the deep, deep snow.

[Latif Nasser]

Wow. And at that point, there's truly none. Over in the desert where we think of them, like in Africa or in the Middle east, there's none.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Nothing.

[Latif Nasser]

Wow.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Nothing.

[Lulu Miller]

It wasn't until long after camels took over North America, like 40 million years later, that they finally wandered across this huge bridge. I mean, people actually call it a land bridge that used to connect North America and Russia. It was over 600 miles long with.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Forests all the way across, and camels.

[Lulu Miller]

Walked all the way across it and had babies, who had babies, who had babies. And they all kept walking into Russia and Asia and eventually into the desert of the Middle east and Africa.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Yeah, it's pretty far. It's pretty far, huh?

[Latif Nasser]

But this is so confusing to me that camels didn't come from the desert because aren't they perfectly adapted for the desert? Like, isn't everything that makes them kind of weird looking? No offense, camels, but, you know, the hump, the goofy body, isn't all that stuff that makes them, you know, desert superstars.

[Lulu Miller]

They are. They are desert superstars. Just to wow you a little bit about them. Yeah. Join me here in the desert for a tour through the camel's signature body parts, sir. What do you say, Sungbud? Can I get a little help?

[Alan Ginsky]

Absolutely. The eyes, the mouth, the feet and the hump. The four main secrets to how they strut their stuff. The eyes, the mouth, the feet and the hump. Join me on a tour from their head to their rump.

[Lulu Miller]

Let's start with the eyes.

[Alan Ginsky]

Big long lashes, as cute as can be. But they're there for a reason.

[Lulu Miller]

Sandstorms can get really nasty.

[Alan Ginsky]

The lashes blink away the sand in the hot desert wind. And a transparent set of eyelids keeps it all from getting in. Next up after the eyes, the mouth. That big goofy smile is the toughest of lips. It can gobble things more extreme than it spits. Cacti and thorns ain't no problem for them.

[Lulu Miller]

It can eat these spiny desert plants that almost no other mammal can wow.

[Alan Ginsky]

Next up, the eyes, the mouth, the feet. The feet are quite amazing. Big and flat like frying pans. They keep these heavy beasts from sinking deep into the sand. But of the eyes, the mouth, the feet and the hump, the cameliest characteristic of all is the hump. The hump. Some have one and some have two. But the humps do not store water. They actually store food.

[Latif Nasser]

What? I thought we were always told the hump stores water.

[Lulu Miller]

The hump is fat. It's like a fat backpack they're carrying around with them so they can go long periods without having to eat.

[Latif Nasser]

It's just like. It's like backup snacks.

[Lulu Miller]

It's backup snacks, yeah.

[Alan Ginsky]

But that thing about storing water is absolutely true. They could go without a sip for like a week or even two.

[Latif Nasser]

Really.

[Alan Ginsky]

The way they do it, though, has nothing to do with the hump. It's a tiny set of organs much closer to the rump.

[Lulu Miller]

The kidneys, the.

[Alan Ginsky]

Like a filter so that camel can drink water that's salty or water that stinks.

[Latif Nasser]

Wow.

[Alan Ginsky]

Keep the water in the body instead of wasting it on pee pee.

[Lulu Miller]

Camel pee comes out like syrup.

[Latif Nasser]

That's so gross to imagine.

[Lulu Miller]

And yet incredibly water efficient.

[Alan Ginsky]

Slurp, slurp.

[Latif Nasser]

Wow. Now I'm just more convinced they. They belong in the desert and don't belong over in that snowy land where Natalia found this bone. Like what?

[Lulu Miller]

Right, because that's what we all thought.

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah.

[Lulu Miller]

When you say of course, they must have perfectly evolved for this environment. But then Natalia's idea was. Wait, no, we're looking at this backwards.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Once you find a giant camel in the Arctic, you start thinking about camels differently.

[Lulu Miller]

Her theory is maybe all the body parts that make us think they're, you know, quintessentially hot desert creatures. What if those in initially made it good in the snow?

[Latif Nasser]

Huh? Can you sing your Camel in the Snow song?

[Shane Rigdon]

I don't have my auto tune on a camel in the snow. Camel in the snow.

[Latif Nasser]

To make sure I really understood Natalia's backwards idea about camel features initially being good for the snow. I traveled to a. A very frosty place with lots of snow. It is legit cold. A farm in Wisconsin in the middle of winter. Can I touch the hump?

[Shane Rigdon]

Go right ahead.

[Latif Nasser]

Okay.

[Shane Rigdon]

This is the most famous feature where.

[Latif Nasser]

There happens to live a seven foot tall camel named Peanut. You trying to eat my backpack? And lovingly pushing Peanut's mouth away from my backpack is Peanut's human friend, Shane.

[Shane Rigdon]

Peanut is an incredible camel.

[Latif Nasser]

Oh, my gosh, you are so cute. Okay, now, to me, Peanut looks totally out of place on this snowy, snowy farm with pine trees in the back and humans wearing mittens all around him. But to Shane, who has spent nearly four years caring for Peanut, he's not surprised at Natalia's theory at all. He says that Peanut adores the snow. In fact, Peanut's sheer joy whenever it starts snowing inspired him to write this hit song or hit to me and his like 20,000 TikTok followers, where he posts videos of Peanut and his other two camel friends rolling, frolicking, playing in the snow every time it snows. And so now, with Shane and Peanut's help, we are going to run back through those same four features that made the camel so good in the desert.

[Alan Ginsky]

The eyes, the mouth, the feet, and the hump.

[Latif Nasser]

And explain how they make the camel great in the snow.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah, let's do a song, bud.

[Alan Ginsky]

Okay. First, the long lashes on those pretty.

[Latif Nasser]

Brown eyes I put on mascara today. Who's got better eyelashes as mere Peanut?

[Shane Rigdon]

Be honest here, Peanut, look At those.

[Latif Nasser]

It's like not even a competition.

[Shane Rigdon]

So long.

[Alan Ginsky]

Great for swatting away sand, but oh.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah, I guess that works in a snowstorm too.

[Shane Rigdon]

They're kind of built in windshield wipers.

[Latif Nasser]

Wow.

[Alan Ginsky]

Next up, the mouth.

[Latif Nasser]

He put your bare hand in his mouth, peeled back his lips. It looked like tentacles.

[Alan Ginsky]

A mouth lined with tough bumps can allow it to gobble down a spiny cactus.

[Lulu Miller]

Isn't that knee?

[Alan Ginsky]

If you could imagine. Where else might this ability be good? How about the thorns and brambles of the cold winter woods?

[Shane Rigdon]

A camel will eat anything it has to to survive. Shrubs, greens, trees, cactus.

[Alan Ginsky]

Watch him eat Lulu's backpack.

[Latif Nasser]

Are you trying to eat my backpack?

[Alan Ginsky]

Next up, the eyes, the mouth, the feet.

[Lulu Miller]

Think about those big, huge feet. We think about them tromping over sand, right?

[Latif Nasser]

Yep.

[Lulu Miller]

But what if they were tromping over snow?

[Shane Rigdon]

Now when I put his foot back down, it's going to expand about a half inch to an inch.

[Lulu Miller]

It like spreads out like a pair of snowshoes.

[Latif Nasser]

It's like a giant pancake.

[Shane Rigdon]

Giant pancake for sure.

[Alan Ginsky]

Lets it walk for miles a day without sinking to its knees.

[Lulu Miller]

Now, what's that last lumpy trait that lets camels survive the deep freeze?

[Alan Ginsky]

That backpack full of junk. The camel's funky lumpy humps.

[Lulu Miller]

Think about it. Would it be helpful to have an extra store of fat during a six month long winter?

[Latif Nasser]

Oh, my gosh. Especially.

[Lulu Miller]

Sounds pretty helpful, actually.

[Latif Nasser]

Keeps you warm and gives you food.

[Lulu Miller]

There's usually not a lot growing out there in the middle of winter.

[Alan Ginsky]

The eyes, the mouth, the feet, and the hump. An arctic superstar that struts its snowy stuff.

[Latif Nasser]

Wow, wow, wow.

[Shane Rigdon]

You're gonna walk on up. You're gonna put your foot over like a bike.

[Latif Nasser]

Okay. To close out our adventure, Shane asked me if I wanted to ride peanuts. Certainly never ridden a camel before. So I climbed up. Okay, here we go. Into the little arch between its hump and its neck. Okay. And then Shane opened the gate to the barn and let us just go peanut walking effortlessly through a snowy field toward pine trees and faraway barn. Wow. Hey, big guy. Nice ride. Can go like miles and miles a day.

[Shane Rigdon]

Miles, miles, miles, miles and miles.

[Latif Nasser]

And at some point, sitting up high on that camel, I started to see through that same backwards fun house mirror that Natalia did.

[Lulu Miller]

Right. You see a camel in the desert and in your mind you jump to. This is exactly the way it's always been and it's supposed to be. And it fits perfectly. Right?

[Latif Nasser]

Right.

[Lulu Miller]

And it might not have gone that way. It might Be a completely different story, a weirder story that you'd never predict.

[Latif Nasser]

Yeah. It makes me think that, like, belonging comes in all kinds of ways. Maybe you're born into a situation where you fit perfectly, or maybe the place where you fit is coming down the line and everything you're doing right now will help you get there.

[Lulu Miller]

Yeah. And for Natalia, looking closely at the camel, which is, you know, this globetrotter that's trotted its big feet across the globe, it's shown her not just the strange story that's behind it, but also the one in front of it.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

These are the animals of the future because they're so resilient. If we think about the future in a much hotter Earth with drought and these unexpected weather changes.

[Lulu Miller]

Hmm. If only there was a creature that could go weeks without water and that could endure 120 degree heat without slowing down.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

This is the kind of animal that can survive all that.

[Lulu Miller]

And there are serious proposals on the table to bring camels back to the USA to be farm animals because they can better endure the heat and because they could graze on all that spiny underbrush that can catch fire so easily and cause wildfires to spread. And as someone who literally had to flee my home this year because of a wildfire, let me just put on the record that I am pro any anti wildfire uses of camels.

[Latif Nasser]

Wow.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

We're shifting back to much warmer time. Camels are one of the animals that should do better than others.

[Latif Nasser]

This is so fun. This is like the best day of my winter by far. Hey, you. You are so handsome. Anything to say, my camel in the snow? Ha ha ha ha. Camel in the snow. It's snowing and you're a camel. You're a snowy camel. Camel in the snow.

[Alan Ginsky]

From here up, I'm atop this camel. We see it walk the earth below. It all makes makes sense. We see so clearly. This camel seems just right at home.

[Latif Nasser]

Camel in the snow. Camel in the snow. Camel in the snow. Camel in the snow. Alan Ginsky in harmony with his incredible wife, Alita Ginski. Let's hear it for the Ginskis on skis. On a camel.

[Lulu Miller]

Okay, and that's it. That's all for us. Nothing even remotely interesting happening after that.

[Alan Ginsky]

What's that?

[Latif Nasser]

Excuse me, I have a question. Me two, me three, me four.

[Anissa]

Badgers.

[Latif Nasser]

Listeners with badgering questions for the expert, Natalia, Shane, you ready?

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Absolutely.

[Shane Rigdon]

For sure.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Hi, my name is Anissa.

[Latif Nasser]

I'm 25. Have you ever been spit on by a camel?

[Shane Rigdon]

Honestly, I get spit on a Couple times a year. It's very, very gross. I have longer hair and it's definitely like a two or three shower ordeal if it gets in there.

[Latif Nasser]

Wow.

[Anissa]

Hi, my name is Alice. I'm 10 years old. And my question is, has there ever been a three humped camel pregnant?

[Latif Nasser]

Oh, da dun.

[Anissa]

My name is owen and I'm 10 years old. You've used smell to identify bones, but have you ever tasted a potential fossil to see if it's legit?

[Natalia Rybczynski]

I've licked a fossil.

[Latif Nasser]

You've licked a fossil? Yes.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

If you pick up a bone out of the ground and then if you lick it, you'd be like, oh, look, it's. It actually is a nice shiny little tooth.

[Latif Nasser]

Why does licking it tell you it's a tooth?

[Natalia Rybczynski]

It just cleans it up really fast.

[Latif Nasser]

Wow. Okay, so paleobiologists putting all five senses to work.

[Anissa]

My name is Walter. I'm seven. Does camels make milk?

[Shane Rigdon]

Yeah, it's. It's special.

[Latif Nasser]

What does it taste like?

[Shane Rigdon]

It's salty and it's thick. But camel milk is actually really, really good for people that are lactose intolerant too. A lot of people can tolerate the camel milk.

[Latif Nasser]

Do people eat, like, camel cheese? Yeah.

[Shane Rigdon]

So there's camel cheese, there's camel ice cream, camel body wash, camel soap.

[Latif Nasser]

What would you call camel ice cream flavor?

[Shane Rigdon]

Camel caramel. Camel.

[Latif Nasser]

Camel.

[Lulu Miller]

My tongue hurts.

[Shane Rigdon]

Try to say that.

[Anissa]

My name is Ida. I'm eight years old. What's the biggest mistake you've made on the job?

[Natalia Rybczynski]

We didn't put enough gas in the ATV one day.

[Latif Nasser]

Okay.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

But it broke down next to a new fossil, so that turned out okay.

[Latif Nasser]

What did you find?

[Natalia Rybczynski]

That was a walking seal.

[Latif Nasser]

Oh, sorry. What?

[Natalia Rybczynski]

A seal. That represents a time in the evolution of seals before they had flippers.

[Latif Nasser]

Like a land seal.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Yeah. He looked like an otter. Webbed feet and a long tail. And he lived in the Arctic like 20 million years ago.

[Latif Nasser]

Wait, Alan, Alan, did you know there were walking seals?

[Alan Ginsky]

I had no idea. Are we talking like five toes?

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Yes.

[Alan Ginsky]

Really? Like I'm imagining them with, like, Air Jordans on. This is how I prefer to think about seals from now on.

[Latif Nasser]

Like, walking through the forest.

[Alan Ginsky]

Are they kind of waddling like penguins? They're on all fours.

[Natalia Rybczynski]

Yeah, yeah, they're on all fours. They're not. Yeah, they're not. Uprigh.

[Latif Nasser]

I am now picturing it with sneakers. Alan, I love that. Treasures was created by me, Lulu Miller with WNYC Studios. Our executive producer is Sarah Sambach. This episode was produced by Alan Kafinski Mira, Burt Wintonic, Anna Gonzalez, Tanya Chalice, Sarah Sambach, Joe Plord and me with fact checking by Anna Pugil Mazzini. Support for terrestrials is provided by the Simons foundation, the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, and the John Templeton Foundation. Thank you and big special thanks to my co host at Radiolab, Latif Nasser for telling us this story. He originally told it as a TED Talk where he brought out a live camel at the very end. It's incredible and if you want to see it, just Google Latif Nasser, Camel and ted. Thank you also to Carly Mensch, Juliet Blake, Anna Beck, Tolstone Dow, Natalia Rachinsky and our camelman Shane Rigdon. If you are in Wisconsin, you can go meet his camels at Rigdon Ranch and you can follow his truly delightful TikTok to see camels in the snow at Rigdon Ranch. I wonder what a camel snow angel would look like? Or Santa's sleigh drawn by flying camels. Maybe some of them wearing winter hats? I don't know. Maybe you do. Anyway, send us a drawing at T.

[Alan Ginsky]

E R R E S T R.

[Latif Nasser]

I A L S at W N.

[Alan Ginsky]

Y C dot or.

[Latif Nasser]

And hey, if you want to get emails from us, just sign up for our newsletter by going to www.terrestrialspodcast.org. and if you want to see pictures of the animals from our episodes and silly videos of us dancing and singing, follow us on Instagram and TikTok terrestrials podcast. And finally, if you like our strange little show about the Earth and the creatures on it, please rate and review our podcast on Apple or Spotify. It really makes a huge difference and or go a little further and pledge a few dollars of your support. You can support terrestrials by becoming a member of the lab. To do that, just go to terrestrialspodcast.org join this season if you sign up, you will get a photocopy of a ratio from our RATS episode. I promise it's cute and kind of stylish and not gross and I will sign it. Anyway, that was a lot of links. All of them are also linked in the episode description on whatever you're listening to right now. You can just scroll down and you'll see them anyway. Okay, that's it. Enough words. See you in a couple spins of this snowy old planet of ours. Bye.

[Eiley]

Hi, I'm Eiley and I'm from North Carolina and here are the staff credits. Radiolab was created by Jad Abumrad and is edited by Soren Wheeler, Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser are our co hosts. Dylan Keefe is our director of sound design. Our staff includes Simon Adler, Jeremy Bloom, Becca Bressler, W. Harry Fortuna, David Gable, Maria Paz Gutierrez, Sindhu Nyan Sambandhan, Matt Kielty, Annie McKeown, Alex Neeson, Sara Kari, Sarah Sandbach, Anissa Vitza, Arianne Wack, Pat Walters, and Molly Webster. Our fact checkers are Diane Kelly, Emily Krieger and Natalie Middleton. Hi, my name's Diana and I'm calling from Madrid, Spain. Leadership support for Radiolabs science programming is provided by the Gordon and Betty Moore Foundation Science Sandbox, a Simons foundation initiative, and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.

[Latif Nasser]

A whole new season of terrestrials is coming. Radiolab's family friendly show All About Nature. This season we are back with a new batch of episodes where we come face to snout with some of the wildest, gnarliest creatures on this planet. We discover music, magic, medicine and a whole lot of fun starting April 17, all on the Radiolab for Kids feed wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Ira Flatow]

I'm Ira Flato, host of Science Friday. For over 30 years, our team has been reporting high quality news about science, technology and medicine. News you won't get anywhere else. And now that political news is 24 7, our audience is turning to us to know about the really important stuff in their lives. Cancer, climate change, genetic engineering, childhood diseases. Our sponsors know the value of science and health news. For more sponsorship information, visit sponsorship.wnyc.org.