Radiolab: "Update: Eye In the Sky"

Date: September 13, 2016
Hosts: Robert Krulwich, Jad Abumrad (Radiolab)
Guest Hosts: Manoush Zomorodi, Alex Goldmark (Note to Self)
Key Subject: Ross McNutt and Persistent Surveillance Systems

Episode Overview

This episode revisits and updates the story of "Eye in the Sky," exploring the rise and implications of wide-area surveillance technology originally developed for tracking insurgents and IEDs in Iraq, and now tested for use in US cities. The episode grapples with the legal, ethical, and emotional questions posed by having a surveillance system capable of recording the movements of an entire city—essentially creating a real-world "rewind button" for urban crime-solving.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins of Wide-Area Surveillance: Project Angelfire

• Ross McNutt, a former Air Force engineer, develops Project Angelfire in 2004 to track violence in Iraq, using a plane-mounted camera array to take continuous images over Fallujah.
• Purpose: To work backwards from the scene of a bombing to identify perpetrators (04:30).
  • Quote: (Ross McNutt at 04:30)
    “Bombs going off are pretty easy to detect in images. The problem is, how do you go from a bomb going off backwards in time to be able to figure out who planted it?”
• The technology functioned as a "time machine" for city-wide events.

2. Transition to American Cities (Dayton, Ohio)

• McNutt forms Persistent Surveillance Systems and pitches the military technology for use in fighting urban crime.
• Dayton Police test the system for five days in 2012; the surveillance helps catch a burglary suspect within minutes (10:30–12:23).
  • Quote: (Robert Krulwich at 12:23)
    “This is so weird. This is like having a superpower.”
• The technology’s impact is immediate and concrete, challenging conventional policing methods.

3. The Tension: Security vs. Privacy

• The hosts discuss deep concerns about mass surveillance and loss of autonomy.
  • Quote: (Manoush Zomorodi at 12:32)
    “I just feel sad. It’s like we’re all just these little dots. It just seems like the antithesis of what a lot of police departments seem to be trying to do... making personal connections, creating relationships.”
• McNutt counters that increased oversight could actually help with police accountability (13:22).

4. International Deployment: Juarez, Mexico

• Persistent Surveillance is contracted to operate in Juarez, tracking cartel violence in an environment with extreme crime rates (18:28).
• Detailed tracking of a policewoman’s murder illustrates the technology’s investigative power, mapping not just a crime but an entire network (20:18–22:30).
  • Quote: (Ross McNutt at 22:24)
    “This house, this house appears to be their cartel headquarters.”
• By connecting multiple crimes and suspects, the technology facilitated dismantling a cartel responsible for 1,500 murders (23:16).

5. Ethical Reckoning and Emotional Reaction

• The hosts express conflicts about feeling supportive when the technology is used "elsewhere" but hesitant close to home (23:25–24:28).
• Questions arise about the proportionality of surveillance and the trustworthiness of those deploying it (25:10).

6. Public Response in Dayton & Community Divides

• City Commission in Dayton hears public testimony, exposing a divided populace:
  • 25% supportive (“I’m not doing anything wrong, so I don’t care what people see me doing”) (26:17–26:32)
  • ~15% strongly opposed, highlighting invasion of privacy and mistrust in government
  • Majority unsure, peppering officials with practical questions (26:40–27:20)
• The public’s skepticism is enough to shelve the technology for the time being in Dayton.

7. Post-Broadcast Developments: Baltimore’s Secret Test

• Following the initial broadcast, philanthropists Laura and John Arnold offer to fund a city-scale test in Baltimore without public disclosure—only the police commissioner is informed (29:48–31:31).
  • Quote: (Robert Krulwich at 31:32)
    “So Baltimore’s police department, without telling the mayor or the city council or anybody, decides to contract with this fellow...and they just don’t mention this to the mayor.”
• Results: Several violent crimes are investigated, but the system’s future is uncertain as legal and public scrutiny mounts.

8. Legal, Constitutional, and Societal Questions

• The episode concludes with a reading of the Fourth Amendment and speculates how mass surveillance fits (35:09–35:57).
  • Quote: (Robert Krulwich at 35:40)
    “By that token... everyone in Baltimore... every place in Baltimore. That’s a pretty radical thing.”
• There is a sense that the legal system has not yet caught up to the technological reality, and that precedent set in Baltimore could echo to other US cities.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Power and Danger of the Technology:
  • (Jad Abumrad, 14:31)
    “The advantages are always so concrete and the trade-offs always feel so abstract.”
• On Emotional Dissonance:
  • (Manoush Zomorodi, 23:25)
    “I felt ashamed of myself because...it’s okay for them, but it’s still not okay for us.”
• On Public Debate:
  • (Manoush Zomorodi, 27:10)
    “…the naysayers were so loud and so impassioned that they sort of defined the conversation.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 03:03 | Introduction to Ross McNutt and military origins | | 06:01 | How the surveillance system works | | 10:30 | Dayton, Ohio demo: catching a burglar in minutes | | 12:23 | Hosts react to the "superpower" effect | | 18:28 | Deployment in Juarez, Mexico | | 20:18 | Murder of a police officer and system capabilities | | 22:24 | Mapping entire cartel networks from one incident | | 23:25 | Hosts confront the ethics of “away vs. home” | | 26:11 | Divided public meeting in Dayton | | 29:48 | Results of the podcast lead to Baltimore pilot | | 31:32 | Secret deployment in Baltimore exposed | | 34:35 | Pending legal cases and the Fourth Amendment | | 35:57 | Closing thoughts and implications for US society |

Conclusion

This Radiolab/Note to Self collaboration draws listeners into the murky waters where technology, security, privacy, and civic values intersect. By tracing the technology from Fallujah to Juarez to American heartland cities, the episode makes theory tangible: wide-area surveillance can break cartel networks, but it can also threaten foundational freedoms. With new legal and societal precedents forming in real time, the debate is left deeply unsettled.

For deeper exploration and more stories, check:

• radiolab.org “Eye in the Sky” episode page
• notetoselfradio.org