Epstein Files Trigger Total Chaos Inside MAGA World

Summary

Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov

Episode: Epstein Files Trigger Total Chaos Inside MAGA World
Date: February 6, 2026
(Vox Media Podcast Network)

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Overview

In this episode, Jessica Tarlov and guest co-host Erin Parnas tackle the chaos generated by the release of the Epstein files and its ripple effects through MAGA circles and U.S. politics. They discuss Trump’s reportedly strained relationship with his longtime advisor Stephen Miller, implications of the SAVE Act on voter registration and democracy, the continued fallout of the Epstein revelations for both parties, and how Kamala Harris and others are plotting for the political future. The conversation is brisk, witty, often darkly humorous, and always anchored in a centrist but deeply skeptical tone about the extremes of American political life.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Are Trump and Stephen Miller Heading for a Break?

Timestamps: 01:41–07:44

• Jessica introduces the rumor (via the Wall Street Journal and The New Republic) that Trump is growing uncomfortable with Stephen Miller's hardline immigration tactics, citing concerns from business leaders and resistance to mass detention camps even in red states.
  • Jessica: "His ruthless approach, marked by aggressive tactics and a disregard for the truth, appear to be on the outs with Trump." (01:44)
• Erin speculates that internal polling is influencing Trump to dial back Miller's power, but notes it's not easy to undo Miller's influence; immigration enforcement has become an entrenched operation.
  • Erin: "Kind of gave the keys to the kingdom to Miller in a way... It's very hard to unring that bell once you kind of go down this path." (02:56)
• Discussion of Miller’s outsize and controversial influence, with Jessica referencing a notorious school-bus video from Miller’s teenage years as an omen of his character.
  • Jessica: “That’s the stuff I think, as a parent, rings alarm bells... I think every serial killer has killed an animal in their youth.” (04:13)
• Erin forecasts possible staff shake-ups, including Kristi Noem and speculation on Glenn Youngkin versus Ron DeSantis for Homeland Security. Jessica notes DeSantis’ surprising popularity among some Florida liberals.
  • Jessica: "That's what I have been hearing. Where, where are you seeing this Youngkin stuff? I'm interested in that." (06:17)
• Both are skeptical that Miller will ever be truly ousted; he might just get sidelined, but his influence isn’t easily erased.

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2. ICE Raids and Immigrant Enforcement: Tone Shifts, Real Change?

Timestamps: 07:44–12:53

• Jessica and Erin analyze the decision by Tom Holman (Immigration Enforcement) to scale back ICE operations in Minneapolis—from a surge of 3,000 down to 2,300, still far above the pre-crackdown level of 150.
  • Jessica: “Do you think that Homan scaling back the 700 ICE agents is actually a big deal?” (07:55)
  • Erin: “Now, I disagree that this is stable and normal to the extent that, like... He is a stable figure. He doesn’t feel like a loose cannon..." (08:55)
• Both agree the administration is eager to “claim victory,” such as reporting 4,000 ‘criminal’ arrests, but are deeply skeptical about its veracity.
  • Jessica: “Everyone wants to claim victory all the time. And I am willing, for the sake of peace, to kind of give some victory that I don’t think is legitimate.” (10:34)
• Vance, the current VP, is critiqued for his lack of likability and being “sidelined” in the administration.
  • Jessica: “He seems... there isn’t a lightness in him at all.” (12:32)
  • Erin: “That’s what you have here. I mean, he called Trump Hitler ten years ago, and now he’s his VP.” (12:45)

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3. Epstein Files Fallout: Chaos, Accountability, & Media Apathy

Timestamps: 14:45–21:24

• Jessica expresses deep disappointment with the media’s waning interest in the Epstein files, despite their magnitude and importance.
  • Jessica: “It is so overwhelming what’s going on and the lack of interest by most people... Even mainstream outlets that had been doing a good job on it, it feels like they've kind of hit a wall.” (14:54)
• Erin counters that the “dam is breaking”—citing high-profile resignations (Brad Karp, Peter Mandelson audit/apology, Slovakia national security advisor), and the Clintons’ willingness to testify publicly.
  • Erin: “Brad Karp stepping down as one of the most powerful lawyers... Keir Starmer, the UK prime minister... The Clintons calling Comers bluff... that's a big deal.” (16:19)
• Discussion of the House GOP (Comer) and whether they will actually follow through with public hearings, predicting Comer will “have to go for it”—with the Clintons capable of turning the hearing on its head.
  • Erin: “He can’t walk this back... they are going to name every name, 100%.” (17:04)
• Erin highlights bombshells in the files, including proof that Prince Andrew’s notorious photo is real, vindicating survivors like Virginia Giuffre.
  • Erin: “Last night we found a document where Ghislaine Maxwell admitted that photo was real.” (18:27)
• Jessica remains pessimistic about the overall impact in the U.S., citing numbness and cynicism, quoting a friend:
  • Jessica: “Reality is such nightmare fuel that if you try to talk about current events with someone who is blissfully uninformed, it is quite literally impossible not to sound delusional, conspiracy pilled, and wildly schizophrenic.” (19:47)
• Looking ahead: Pam Bondi testimony (Feb 11), possible State of the Union disruptions, and calls for keeping Epstein central in public debate.

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4. The SAVE Act: Voter Registration, Suppression, and Dem Party Strategy

Timestamps: 21:24–26:55

• Jessica explains public confusion over the SAVE Act, clarifying it’s not just a voter ID bill, but a strict voter registration bill requiring proof of citizenship—likely impacting students, women, and others lacking paperwork.
  • Jessica: “No one seems to know what the SAVE act actually is, that it's not a voter ID bill, that it's a voter registration bill that would demand that people had proof of citizenship.” (21:24)
• Erin calls the bill “an attempt to undermine elections,” with federal overreach (access to all state voter rolls), and predicts court challenges.
  • Erin: “I think it's unconstitutional... just an effort to make it harder for certain people to vote.” (23:14)
• Jessica is frustrated at Democrats for failing to communicate these consequences effectively, and notes even some Republicans in red states use mail-in voting.
  • Jessica: “I have been frustrated and rage texting people in our party... Democrats need to own this issue better.” (24:12)
• Both agree: Most Americans are fine with some ID requirement, but the GOP proposals are needlessly burdensome, with the House bill unlikely to become law.
  • Erin: “To me, it’s like, well, okay, make it easier to obtain certain identification that you’re going to require and make it." (25:58)

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5. Kamala Harris, Online Image, and Viral Political Stunts

Timestamps: 26:55–29:48

• Jessica and Erin discuss the resurrection of “Kamala HQ” social accounts, meant to be a Gen Z content machine.
  • Jessica: “Kamala HQ accounts... alive late Wednesday night, Thursday morning announcement, Kamala with a video...a Gen Z content machine. What do you think she's trying to accomplish here?” (27:05)
• Erin sees Kamala attempting to compete with Gavin Newsom, not against the move, but wishes it had come sooner.
  • Erin: “I am totally in favor of the vice president coming out and having a platform and using that platform... this should have happened a year ago.” (27:43)
• Side discussion of Polymarket “oddsmaking” on her presidential prospects, and viral stunts targeting NYC politicians like "Mom Donnie."
  • Jessica: “Polymarket odds were 30% that she announced that she's running for president by July.” (28:39)
  • Erin: “I actually think they're helping him [Mom Donnie]... If it works, Mom Donnie will just be like, okay, let's do it again.” (29:05)

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6. Pop Culture, Politics & Lighthearted Closer

Timestamps: 29:48–32:31

• Riffing on the Super Bowl and alternative halftime shows, both dismiss conservative-sponsored "alternative" events.
  • Erin: “I'm watching the Super Bowl... I just don't want to listen to Kid Rock. Respectfully.” (31:05)
• Discussion of the “Melania documentary” as a PR-driven “best seller” and a passing reference to Brett Ratner’s mention in the Epstein files.
• Ending with what they're “raging” (bad snow removal; pineapple pizza shaming) and what to “calm down about.”
  • Jessica: “What should we calm down about?” (32:14)
  • Erin: “Yeah, the fact that I like pineapple pizza. I got a lot of shit for that. Calm down about it.” (32:17)

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Memorable Quotes

• "Kind of gave the keys to the kingdom to Miller in a way... It's very hard to unring that bell once you kind of go down this path."
  — Erin Parnas, on how Trump can't simply ditch Stephen Miller’s legacy (02:56)

• "How would you even sum up this moment as it relates to the Epstein files to someone... taking a nap for a year?"
  — Jessica Tarlov, articulating the impossible madness of ongoing scandals (19:47)

• "If you can be hillbilly elegy and now you can be this—you. Like, nothing is scarier than someone with no ideology and a lust for power at that level."
  — Jessica Tarlov, on Vance's malleability (12:33)

• "Brad Karp stepping down as one of the most powerful lawyers... Keir Starmer, the UK prime minister... The Clintons calling Comers bluff... that's a big deal."
  — Erin Parnas, on the international impact of Epstein fallout (16:19)

• "I think, like most Americans, would agree that showing some form of identification is not a problem. To me, it's like, well, okay, make it easier to obtain certain identification that you're going to require and make it."
  — Erin Parnas, on the balance between election security and access (25:58)

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Notable Moments & Timestamps

• Jessica’s parent/citizen serial killer analogy re: Stephen Miller (04:13)
• Erin’s take on how ICE still outnumbers Minneapolis Police 4-to-1 (09:10)
• Jessica’s frustration with Dems’ poor messaging on SAVE Act (24:12)
• Jessica quoting her friend’s ‘nightmare fuel’ tweet about political reality (19:47)
• Erin’s push for the Epstein files to become part of the State of the Union (21:11)

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Conclusion

This episode showcases both hosts’ deep frustration with the political moment, from the normalization of extreme policies to the fecklessness of institutions handling massive scandals. Their centrist critique cuts across parties and highlights how large parts of the media and political class are failing on issues ranging from immigration to elite criminality to election access. The tone is both exasperated and incisive, with barbed humor and memorable analogies. For listeners wanting sharp, up-to-the-minute centrist commentary, this episode delivers a comprehensive, candid take on the major political currents of early 2026.

Transcript

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Ever look back on something you posted on the Internet and think, well, that was cringe?

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, I mean I look back at that stuff and I'm just like, it's so emblematic of the era. And it's also just like, why did I think this would age well, like in the slightest?

[Best Western Narrator]

This week on Explain it to Me from Vox. What to do with your online regret. New episodes on Sundays, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlev.

[Erin Parnas]

And I'm Erin Parnas.

[Jessica Tarlev]

In today's episode, we're discussing whether Trump is actually turning on his shadow president Stephen Miller, the fallout from the Epstein files, an ongoing subject, and the fight over the SAVE Act. Plus, Kamala Harris is teasing a new future. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to our YouTube page to get up to date coverage on everything that's happening. All right, let's get into it. Stephen Miller is often described as the shadow president and other meaner names due to his significant influence over immigration policy and law enforcement. His ruthless approach, marked by aggressive tactics and a disregard for the truth, appear to be on the outs with Trump. The Wall Street Journal is reporting that Donald Trump is dissatisfied with Miller. He has told advisors that he has been uncomfort comfortable with how far Miller has gone on some fronts, said that business officials are calling and complaining to him, and apparently he reassured Governor Kemp in Georgia that there wouldn't be any more raids at factories and farms. The New Republic is also reporting that there's been resistance to building prison camps that would allow for the detention of 80,000 more migrants across red parts of Virginia, reddish parts of New Jersey, Oklahoma City, Kansas City, Utah, and more. Aaron, is this just a liberal pipe dream that Trump is actually souring on Miller?

[Erin Parnas]

No, I actually don't think it is. I think that he's seeing internal polling and he's realizing that maybe what Miller is doing isn't as popular as he once thought it was. But I will say this. He kind of gave the keys to the kingdom to Miller in a way. Kind of gave him whatever he wants, gave him full control. It's very hard to unring that bell once you kind of go down this path. And to me, I mean, this is a bit conspiratorial, but it kind of seems like Miller's kind of running this presidency as it relates to immigration and not Trump.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah.

[Erin Parnas]

And I don't know how much power Trump really has here to say, okay, you know what, even if you cut off the head of the snake and like, you remove Miller tomorrow, does that stop everything that's been happening across the country? Does that stop all the new ICE agents who are not properly trained? Does that stop this push from Gnome and dhs? I think you need a radical overhaul of Homeland Security. You can't just say, okay, Miller's gone. This issue's gonna be fixed. Because I think, I think there are really a lot of, and I say this a lot between Trump 1 and Trump 2. The big difference is that in Trump 2, you have a lot of true believers. Like in Trump 1, you have a lot of normie Republicans that they just installed and didn't really do what Trump wanted in Trump too. They are like real true believers. And based on everything Miller has said privately behind the scenes and on tape as like a teen growing up and stuff, I mean, it's some scary stuff.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, that's definitely. If you see that video of him on the school bus, I think he was like 15 or 16 years old. Yeah, like, that's the stuff I think, think as a parent rings alarm bells, like when you see that your 6 year old killed a squirrel. I think every single serial killer has killed an animal in their youth. I totally agree with you. And I don't think that he would actually get pushed out. I think that Trump's ego does not allow for that. So anyone who is going to be moved would just be more sidelined. With the exception of Kristi. No. Because I do think that that is hitting a bit of a fever pitch and I think that Trump is also seeing, I don't want to say a totally warm reception, but that Tom Holman is a much more acceptable face to immigration enforcement, certainly in Minnesota. Democrats are happy to work with him, Walls and Mayor Fry, you know, in conversation with him. And Holman has already scaled back 700 troops from Minneapolis, saying that more could come out as well. So I don't know if Kristi Noem makes it to that hearing, the public hearing she's supposed to do in early March, and certainly not to the midterms, but I can't see a world in which Stephen Miller is ever out of the White House. He might just, you know, be in the corner.

[Erin Parnas]

I guess I could see there being a situation where I don't think Susie Wyo's last all four years. I don't think any chief of staff.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Just because she wants to go home and make money and be with her grandkids.

[Erin Parnas]

Correct?

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah.

[Erin Parnas]

No chief last four years. So I think she will leave after the midterms, if I had to guess, especially if they lose pretty badly. And where I could see Miller leaving is if Trump doesn't elevate him to chief. Right. Like if he just puts in someone else and says, you know what? You're gonna stay deputy chief, then I could see Miller kind of leaving in a sort of post midterm shakeout and then go work as J.D. vance's chief policy advisor on his presidential. I don't. I don't know, like something like that. But I do wanna get your thoughts. Like, you talk about Noem leaving, and I agree. I think she's gone. I think my theory on this is that they're just giving Glenn Youngkin a few months to relax post governorship, to install him as DHS secretary. That's what I think is happening here.

[Jessica Tarlev]

That's interesting because I've been down the rabbit hole of it'll be DeSantis. I had not seen the Youngkin rumors. And Trump has made a few comments recently that are pretty nice about Meatball Ron, his alter ego from election time. And I thought that that was a pretty reasonable pick. I mean, people in Florida really like DeSantis or a lot of liberals that moved to Florida during COVID specifically because I thought that these policies were better. I have friends that are there who like it. They don't like open carry at Publix, but in general they're pretty happy. And now it's, you know, Democrats have been doing better, so it's a bit more of a mixed bag. But that's what I have been hearing. Where, where are you seeing this Youngkin stuff? I'm interested in that.

[Erin Parnas]

I've been, I've been seeing it all over the Internet and I actually agree with it.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Am I not on the Internet?

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, I, I, I'll send it to you.

[Jessica Tarlev]

My algorithm is Floridian, not Virginian.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, it's radically different, I think. But no, I think Glenn Young, I can't imagine he's gonna let the fox in the henhouse with DeSantis. Like Trump. He may be buddy buddy with DeSantis now and like being nicer to him, but he's never, he has never forgotten the 2024 election. Like Glenn Youngkin didn't run against Trump.

[Jessica Tarlev]

No.

[Erin Parnas]

Glenn Youngkin has kissed up to Trump, has never said one thing bad about Trump. So I think that this is a very different situation. I can't imagine Trump nominating DeSantis to lead DHS. And also for the record, those committee hearings are going to be bombshell because if I'm a senator, I want to know about Alligator Alcatraz.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah.

[Erin Parnas]

I mean, the Human Rights Watch report coming out of Alligator Alcatraz, the end this, the international report, I mean, it's, it's pretty horrific what happened there and in a lot of ways modern day torture. And he's going to have to answer for that if he's, if he's nominated.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Totally. I think that's absolutely correct. There'll be a lot of questions also on emergency weather management, which in Florida he deals with this all the time. That was part of also the case for him that he works with FEMA probably more than any other governor at this point, which is under Kristi Noemi's purview, even though you probably wouldn't notice that by the way that she struts around and poses. Do you think that Homan scaling back the 700 ICE agents is actually a big deal? Or it's like there were 3000 there and now there are 2300 and there were, I just saw, actually there were 150 ICE agents before this surge started. So we're still at a massive increase.

[Erin Parnas]

I think that decision, just that decision is not a big deal. I think the overall change in tone and narrative that Homan has brought, and I think you were partially right on this last week and I partially, 100% and I disagreed with you. I do think Homan has brought a sense of kind of more toned down rhetoric, a sense of more kind of normalcy.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Stability.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, more stability. Now, I disagree that this is stable. And normal to the extent that, like.

[Jessica Tarlev]

He is a stable figure. He doesn't feel like a loose cannon where he's gonna show up tomorrow wearI like an SS coat and say, they're all domestic terrorists.

[Erin Parnas]

And make no mistake when I say that this is normal. This is normal, as in, like, this is what Trump has parroted for a year now. This is nothing like crazy. And above what we've seen over the past year, it's still not normal because Minnesota residents are still living in fear and ICE raids are still happening. I mean, it's really bad what's happening on the ground still to this day. I think that the removal of the 700 forces, in my opinion, is kind of like, okay, we're going to wave the white flag just a little bit. But at the same time, people do forget. And you mentioned there are 3,000 of them. The entire Minneapolis Police Department is 600. Right. So they still have more than triple the amount of officers that local police officers have on the ground. And so I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the month, you'll have a, almost full drawdown, though that's kind of where I'm kind of getting at, is like, I think that this is, like, the beginning of, like, a. Okay, we're gonna slowly pull back. We're gonna take Minneapolis, Minnesota, out of the news. We're not going to talk about it, but then you never know with this president who undermines his own people all the time. Like last night on NBC News saying that, oh, it's just two Americans who died. Just two Americans who were killed. Right. Like, just completely minimizing the murders. So we'll see what happens. I don't know.

[Jessica Tarlev]

And then he went on to talk about the water tanks, and you see Tom Yama space. He was like, what in fresh hell is this? But talking about the drawdown. And I do. You can see the writing on the wall that they're trying to post big wins. They're saying that they've gotten 4,000 criminals.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

And so they want to be able to. Everyone wants to claim victory all the time. And I am willing, for the sake of peace, to kind of give some victory that I don't think is legitimate. Obviously, people are going to have to go through and see who it is that they have actually arrested, because odds are that they are not all bad hombres that have been convicted of crimes or even necessarily are accused of crime.

[Erin Parnas]

Oh, definitely.

[Jessica Tarlev]

But it was interesting to me. So J.D. vance was interviewed yesterday as well, was.

[Erin Parnas]

Asked straight up like, have you apologized? Did you plan to apologize to the family of Alex Pareti?

[LifeLock Representative]

For what?

[Jessica Tarlev]

And I don't want to say that I'm surprised, but it does feel like the official line of the administration is to shift away from that kind of rhetoric. And they do know that it is a big problem and something that is stuck in the national consciousness. So do you think. Well, I guess. Were you surprised? And do you think it's a mistake for Vance?

[Erin Parnas]

Oh, I think it's a huge mistake for Vance. But I also think, like, I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm alone in feeling this. I think over the past several months, Vance has really been sidelined to kind of, like, this VP who doesn't really have much power and has kind of trotted out to give these, like, random economic speeches across the country. And then he kind of hurts himself whenever he speaks. Like, whether his tweets about the calling Preddy an assassin assassin or now this. I mean, I really think Trump favors Rubio. I think Trump wants Rubio as the nominee in 28. It really seems like Vance is being sidelined. And I think the White House understands that every time Vance opens his mouth, it doesn't actually help their message. At least with Trump, it's like, you know, it's gonna be chaos. And, like, something he says today will be very different from tomorrow. Whenever Vance speaks kind of scares me. I don't know how to, like.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Well, he has no likability.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

That's the thing. Like, he seems, even when he is making a joke or playing into jokes, like the Meme wars or whatever, it feels like not quite Stephen Miller ish, but it feels like there isn't a lightness in him.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

At all.

[Erin Parnas]

No, not at all.

[Jessica Tarlev]

And that he can be guided in any direction. Like, if you can be hillbilly elegy and now you can be this. You. Like, nothing is scarier than someone with no ideology and a lust for power at that level.

[Erin Parnas]

Correct. And that's what you have here. I mean, he called Trump Hitler 10 years ago, and now he's his VP. Right. Like, yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Should have just posted the W and stuck with it.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

All right, let's take a quick break. Stay with us.

[Trump Approval Narrator]

It may not feel like it, but Trump's approval rating is some of the lowest in recorded history, and it's fallen to new lows in recent weeks as the nation reels from recent killings of two anti ice protesters in Minnesota. But not everyone thinks he's failing. This week, we're hearing from Trump voters.

[Trump Supporter]

It is very unfortunate that it happened, but it's also unfortunate that the ICE is being blamed for like, just murdering somebody who is just so innocent, which isn't the case whatsoever. A, they were provoked. B, he got ran over. And, you know, it just, it's hard to tell what's real and what's not anymore.

[LifeLock Representative]

He's delivered on virtually every promise he's made. The economy is booming right now. He closed the border. We're not getting any more illegals in. That has been done. That was a major promise. That's been done today.

[Trump Approval Narrator]

Explained. Listen wherever you get your podcast.

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[Jessica Tarlev]

The other major story this week is the fallout from the Epstein files dump. Top Democrats, including Congressman Robert Garcia, are suggesting they might want to interview Trump if they regain control of the House. I talked with Scott earlier this week about how disgusting the whole situation is. We talked about it for like 45 minutes. I almost cried. I feel like it is so overwhelming what's going on and the lack of interest by most people. And part of that is like you, impossible to keep up. Yeah, but I've been very disappointed. Even in mainstream outlets that had been doing a good job on it, it feels like they've kind of hit a wall. And maybe that's 3 million documents at once, but it does feel like it's kind of receded from center stage in the way that it had been, which is just disappointing. I wanted to add, though, Brad Karp push out at the top of Paul Weiss. I'm not sure what's still what's going to happen with Peter Attiah who is the CBS medical contributor who was in there. But those were just two points that we had touched on in our previous conversation. So what are you, what are you feeling? And I mean, you're deep in this. You stay up all night reading them. You talk to the survivors all the time.

[Erin Parnas]

The dam is breaking. It really is. I mean, I think that, yes, I agree with you that I think the media has done actually a pretty shitty job in covering the Epstein files. And even, like today, like, you look at any headline or like, look up CNN.com, nBC News. Whatever you're not, you may not even see the Epstein files as a top story anymore. Right. So, like, they have kind of moved on from it. But I really do think this is a different moment.

[LifeLock Customer]

Really.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, I do. Because Brad Karp stepping down as one of the most powerful lawyers, one of the most powerful law firms. That's a big deal. Keir Starmer, the UK prime minister, coming out and addressing the nation and publicly apologizing on behalf of his government for not properly vetting Peter Mendelsohn. That's a big deal. The Clintons calling Comers bluff and saying, we're going to testify and we're going to do it publicly. That's a big deal.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Get the popcorn.

[Erin Parnas]

Right.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I love that. I mean, James Comer is not built for the, he wasn't built for the kindergarten moments with the Hunter Biden stuff. He is not built for going up against the Clintons. Do you think he'll actually go for it? Because I feel like he's going to retreat and say he has to.

[Erin Parnas]

He has to go for it. Has to go for it.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Because you say it's too sensitive. It has to be a private hearing.

[Erin Parnas]

No, he has to go for it. I can't. I can't. He's. He can't walk this.

[Jessica Tarlev]

You don't think he has one advisor who's going to tell him, you're going to look like an effing idiot for sure. You try to intellectually box with the Clintons, for sure, and they're going to burn it down. I mean, they are going to name every name 100%.

[Erin Parnas]

And I want this to have it. I cannot imagine. I can't imagine he bows down here.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Ooh. I, I feel like he is, as Jared Moskowitz would say, that he's, you know, doing something in his pants in fear.

[Erin Parnas]

But in any event, I mean, listen, I think that, like, the tide really is shifting with these files. And I will say also, like, I think a lot of people want to get Trump. Right? Like, that's the prevailing narrative. They're like, I just want to see Trump in the files. I want to connect the dots. I want Trump to go down. But there have been some actually pretty revealing documents that have actually vindicated a lot of survivors. Like, remember that. And if people don't know, there is that famous photo from 2001 with Andrew, formerly known as Prince Andrew, Ghislaine Maxwell and Virginia Giuffre. And Andrew, for the longest time claimed that that photo was fake, that he was at a, quote, pizza restaurant at the time that was taken. Never met Virginia that night. Well, last night we found a document where Ghislaine Maxwell admitted that photo was real privately. Right. So, like, completely vindicated Virginia after speaking for decades and completely undermine what Andrew and Maxwell have been saying. So these stories are really big, in my opinion, and bombshell developments, but unfortunately, they're not going to be spread a ton because they're not Trump indicted. Right. So I think people need to remember that this is more than just about one man and just more than just about Trump, and we really need to keep the survivors kind of centered here.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I absolutely agree with you. I don't think that there's a world in which this actually ends up affecting Trump besides headaches for him and the continual PR swirl, which I know really frustrates him. But I don't know what the dam breaking on this could be. When I look at the level of coverage and it's not just in the uk, there are other countries where people have resigned. It was it. Where else? Slovakia, I think.

[Erin Parnas]

Slovakia. National Security Advisor.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Exactly. So I get that other people are behaving like normal human beings about this and what even in an association with someone as depraved as Jeffrey Epstein means for the futures of their organizations or a government. But I just. Maybe I'm just too down on the country and, like, what we're capable of. But I just. I don't know when you say, like, the dam is breaking, like, we're gonna have all of this information, but I want to read this to you because it really struck a chord with me. My friend texted it to me and he said this tweet. Reality is such nightmare fuel that if you try to talk about current events with someone who is blissfully uninformed, it is quite literally impossible not to sound delusional, conspiracy pilled and wildly schizophrenic. And, yeah, that's totally how I feel. Like, you can't. How would you even sum up this moment as it relates to the Epstein files, to someone that, you know, who been taking a nap for a year.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, I mean, I, I don't. I don't know. I don't have an answer for you, honestly. I, I don't. But I. When I say the dam is breaking, it, it comes at a consequential time, in my opinion. Like the files were released. You now have Pam Bondi testifying on February 11 in less than a week. Right. So that's gonna be the next big moment. And I think the big thing here is that the public and the media and anyone watching just needs to keep the top of mind. Because I think what the Trump administration had working in their advantage in December when the first tranche were released was the fact that it was Christmas and New Year's, and then people just completely forgot about it. And then he abducted Maduro and we moved on from that. Here it's very different. And so you have February 11th, the Bondi hearing. I think you keep it top of mind.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah.

[Erin Parnas]

And then you have State of the union on the 24th, I believe. And I think that if I'm someone on Capitol Hill, I'm making the State of the Union about the Epstein files. I would encourage members of Congress to interrupt the president.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I'm sure survivors will come as guests.

[Erin Parnas]

Well, not just survivors as guests. I want members of Congress interrupting that speech and yelling out the Epstein files. I want a top of mind. I want. If he's not going to talk about it, people need to demand that he talks about it. So.

[Jessica Tarlev]

All right, well, we'll be watching that. And I don't know. I don't even know what kind of mayhem that would be. I mean, he'll get so angry, which I'm not against. I wanted to ask you about the SAVE Act. So it's a big plot line. GOP has a big push for this. I have been very hot and bothered about this, talked about it on Wednesday on the Five. How frustrated I am that no one seems to know what the SAVE act actually is, that it's not a voter ID bill, that it's a voter registration bill that would demand that people had proof of citizenship. So that's your birth certificate or your passport. The number of categories of people who would not have those documents are almost too many to enumerate. But I pointed out on air in particular that this could hurt Republicans who a think that they're so good with younger voters now, who definitely are not showing up at college with their birth certificates if their parents even have it and probably don't have a passport. Nearly 50% of Americans don't. Also, women who have changed their names because they're good wives. Right. And have taken on their husband's names. Also, people were pointing out in the comments on Instagram, like, people have been adopted, gone through the foster care system, and they're just not going to have a birth certificate. What do you think about the GOP's push for the SAVE Act?

[Erin Parnas]

I think that as someone far smarter than me said on the Five yesterday that this is not a voter ID act, this is a voter registration bill. Right. It's exactly what you said. I mean, this is, to me, an attempt by those in Congress to undermine upcoming elections.

[Jessica Tarlev]

So as part of it, just for the audience, it would also essentially nationalize the elections because they would have access to voter rolls from all the states, which even conservative states have said we don't want you to, especially based on what Doge did.

[Erin Parnas]

I think it's unconstitutional. I actually think that part of it will kind of be thrown out pretty quickly by the courts, which will have to. I mean, I don't think this bill will ever become law as it's currently written is kind of what I'm saying. I do think, though, that this push for the SAVE act is just an effort to make it harder for certain people to vote. And I think it's part of a whole. A whole being an attempt by the administration to make it harder to vote, whether that's deploying National Guard or now Steve Bannon is saying ICE agents at polls, Trump attacking the veracity of elections. Tulsi Gabbard spending her holidays in Puerto Rico looking at voter rolls there. It's all kind of this major push to undermine American confidence in elections. And that, to me, is very dangerous. Right. Because, like, I could totally see Democrats sweeping the House and potentially even now the Senate in 2026. And then the day after Trump comes out and says, no, it was fake.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah.

[Erin Parnas]

Can't verify it. Right. And then what happens then, like, I, I don't know what the country looks like.

[Jessica Tarlev]

No, I don't either. It's nightmare fuel stuff. And even more frustrating that people don't seem to know what's going on. I guess thematically, leading off of the Epstein files, I think the average person would like to know about these efforts to undermine elections and what's in this bill in the SAVE Act. And I agree with you, probably doesn't get through in this format. There will also be a lot of resistance to undoing universal Mail in voting states like Utah that goes red all the time. Use mail in voting. Nevada, which Trump picked up in 2024, mail in voting. So there'll be push back on that. But I have been frustrated and rage texting people in our party or I should say more in my party. I mean, you're a left leaning guy, but I'm more, you know, put a donkey on me saying like Democrats need to own this issue better. Like a, do better on the education of what is in the SAVE Act. But then also speak to the fact that over 80% of Americans do think that you should show some form of voter ID when you go to the polls. You know, very important and influential Democrats like Jim Clyburn has said we're not against the idea of showing some form of voter id. It just can't be disproportionately burdensome. Do you think Dems should lean into this issue more or just go hard against the SAVE act and move on?

[Erin Parnas]

Well, I think if you're going to lean into it, they should also lean into the fact that it's very hard for a lot of people to even get an id. Right. Like in many communities across the country, your local DMV is not a walk down the street.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, but if they took a state id, if they accepted a tribal id, if they accepted a student ID in some case, like, sure. I'm talking about a wide breadth of an electric bill.

[Erin Parnas]

You know, like to me it's like it's fine. It's very, if the scope of it is very large, I think it's totally fine. I think most Americans would agree that showing some form of identification is not a problem. To me it's like, well, okay, make it easier to obtain certain identification that you're going to require and make it.

[Jessica Tarlev]

A federal holiday and automatic voter registration.

[Erin Parnas]

Exactly. It's got to be accompanied by other, other things. So I think that like I'm totally fine with them going hard against the SAVE Act. Why? Because I really don't think the SAVE act will ever become law. Yeah, I don't think you'll get a filibuster proof majority in the Senate on this. You just won't. So I, I don't. It's kind of just like this bill in the House that exists. But you know what, what else exists in the House? Authorization for Trump to rename Greenland. Right. Like, so there are all these bills in the House that exist that never become law. And I think this will be one of the them.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Kayleigh McEnany scared me, she said that they would nuke the filibuster for this one.

[Erin Parnas]

Apparently, if they do that, all gloves are off.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah. I can't even imagine what Republicans unchained look like. Did you see Kamala HQ lives?

[Erin Parnas]

I did.

[Jessica Tarlev]

What are, what are your thoughts? So Kamala HQ accounts, which were used through the election, suddenly alive late Wednesday night, Thursday morning announcement, Kamala with a video there that it's going to be a Gen Z content machine. What do you think she's trying to accomplish here? And how disappointed were you with what it actually was?

[Erin Parnas]

So here's. This is me thinking, like, do I, do I like, make some headlines with my response here or do I just very, like, politically correct and neutral and juice?

[Jessica Tarlev]

It just. I mean, I don't know.

[Erin Parnas]

To me, part of this seems like Kamala's trying to compete with Gavin Newsom on Twitter just a little bit. A little bit?

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah.

[Erin Parnas]

That's kind of what it seems like. Listen, I am totally in favor of the vice president coming out and having a platform and using that platform. I think this should have happened a year ago. I mean, like, good. Like, use this platform. It's a large platform. Attack Republicans, do your thing, uplift candidates. Good. All of that is a good thing. So, like, I'm not against any of it. I just think that, like, maybe, I mean, a lot of people thought that this was like her announcing a run for governor potentially or something. And like, they did a good job hyping it up. So, I mean, listen, like, I'm not opposed to any of it. I think, like, okay, good. Like, if you're gonna use this for good, great. But if it really is only gonna be like six, seven memes, then maybe that's not worth it. Right. So we'll see. I mean, I, I waiting with bated breath. Let's see what happens.

[Jessica Tarlev]

You mentioned that people were saying, oh, maybe it's. She's announcing her run for governor. I saw the polymarket odds were 30% that she announced that she's running for president by July.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

And Polymarket is getting in on the kind of online fun at least. So they have this free grocery store pop up situation in New York City. It's only gonna be open for five days, starting on February 12th. Momdani has responded about it. What do you make of these kind of like viral marketing stunts? I guess, playing into Mom Donnie is because, like, they're taking a shot at Mom Donnie. Right.

[Erin Parnas]

And I actually think they're helping him, actually, because I think like, any blowback this gets Any negative coverage this gets, right? It'll be like, okay, it's a poly market company where Don Jr. I think Don Jr. Or whatever, like, Republicans are, like, on the board of. Right. That's just like doing something stupid in New York City. But if it works, Mom, Donnie will just be like, okay, let's do it again. Just keep doing it.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Great. Right. If it fails, he's like, you guys look like idiots. Like, I was out here wearing my custom jacket that says, no problem too small or something.

[Erin Parnas]

Give away some food. I mean, like, okay, you know how.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Mad I am about the poor snow collection situation.

[Erin Parnas]

Retweet.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah. So bad.

[Erin Parnas]

That is what I'm raging about this week because my car is still iced in. Still more than a week later.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Well, I mean, we're skipping ahead, but did I tell you that my husband went out and bought shovels and a spade and shoveled the corners? Every corner that we have to take with a stroller to get to school. Because he heard on the podcast last week. That's how he. He's like, we don't talk. Like, you just, like, complain to Aaron about the. The stroller condition. So we had a clear walkway because I married a good man.

[Erin Parnas]

Nice.

[Jessica Tarlev]

But, Mom, Donnie did not clear that path for me.

[Erin Parnas]

If he wanted to, he would.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Well, he doesn't want to. He doesn't want to come on my podcast or make it easier for me to walk my kids to school. I'm just kidding. Please, come on. We would love to have you. Okay. Before we wrap up super bowl this weekend. Bad Bunny show. Kid Rock show. Which one are you watching? I'm just kidding.

[Erin Parnas]

I'm watching the Super Bowl.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Like, do you think that there's going to be any traction to the alternate one? Because I just. I feel like Benny Johnson isn't even going to actually be. Oh, it's going to be like when people say, I was at Melania and it was packed, people were standing, and I guess it was true. David, our producer, told me that he went even in Hollywood and it was crowded on opening day.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah. I mean, I have so many thoughts about the Melania documentary, but I'm watching the Bad Bunny halftime show. I'm not watching this alternative. I don't want to listen to Kid Rock. Respectfully.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Like, no one does.

[Erin Parnas]

I don't care if he's a Republican or Democrat. I just don't want to listen to him. And that's kind of it.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Okay, then what are your Melania thoughts?

[Erin Parnas]

My Melania thoughts?

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah.

[Erin Parnas]

I think that this idea that it's like this best selling documentary is kind of a misnomer because they're comparing it to other documentaries that haven't had $75 million to pump it up and to promote it, and all these conservative influencers to promote it. It's very. It should be compared, in my opinion, to box office numbers for movies rather than documentaries, in which case it would flop. So that's kind of where I'm at.

[Jessica Tarlev]

All right. I'm good with it.

[Erin Parnas]

And Brett Ratner's in the Epstein files.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Totally. But it was his ex fiance, apparently in the picture.

[Erin Parnas]

I don't know anything about it.

[Jessica Tarlev]

He was asked about it. They're not together anymore. He didn't end up marrying her. But yes, he's in the Epstein files.

[Erin Parnas]

We could talk about all his other allegations against him.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Oh, no, no, no. Totally. I'm just saying. Yeah, I definitely. Melania did not get like, pick of the litter. Okay. You're still raging about snow. Your car still there. What should we calm down about?

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, the fact that I like pineapple pizza. I got a lot of shit for that.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Oh, no, I get it.

[Erin Parnas]

Calm down about it.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I had a ham and pineapple. Or just pineapple.

[Erin Parnas]

I'm Jewish.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Oh. I mean, so am I, but I'm a pork eating Jew, so.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah. I don't eat pork, but yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah. All right. Anyway, great to see you.

[Erin Parnas]

You too.