Raging Moderates: "How Obamaworld is Elevating Zohran Mamdani"

Host: Jessica Tarlov
Guest: David Axelrod
Podcast: Vox Media Podcast Network
Date: August 20, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Jessica Tarlov sits down with veteran political strategist David Axelrod to dissect the shifting political landscape as seen from a centrist perspective. Their wide-ranging conversation covers California’s redistricting battle under Governor Gavin Newsom, Trump’s power consolidation and impact on American democracy, evolving Democratic Party dynamics, shifting approaches toward Russia and Ukraine, and the “Obamaworld” embrace of rising progressive politician Zohran Mamdani. Throughout, Axelrod brings deep historical context and candid analysis, highlighting the urgency for authenticity, humility, and hope in American politics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Introductions and Tone Setting (01:01–04:13)

• Jessica Tarlov welcomes David Axelrod, highlighting his career and personal connections to New York City.
• Playful banter about high school experiences (Stuyvesant for Axelrod, Tribeca for Tarlov); stories about their former teachers, including Frank McCourt and Jeffrey Epstein.
• Axelrod shares a lesson about humility inspired by a high school valedictorian (03:01).

Notable Quote:

"The firefighters are New York's bravest and the police are New York's finest...but here at Stuyvesant, we're New York's smartest. I quickly rewrote my remarks...about the value of humility." — David Axelrod, 02:28

2. California Redistricting, Newsom’s Gamble, and Implications (04:13–10:58)

• Tarlov introduces California Governor Gavin Newsom’s aggressive redistricting push to counter GOP maneuvers in Texas.
• Newsom frames this fight as both a legal necessity and moral moment; Arnold Schwarzenegger opposes, while Nancy Pelosi lauds the move.
• Trump proposes banning mail-in ballots, despite GOP use in prior elections.
• Axelrod offers deep context on Trump’s philosophy: power above rules, admiration for authoritarians, and willingness of Democrats to sacrifice advantage for norms—a recurring strategic challenge.

Notable Quote:

"Donald Trump's philosophy...is not conservative or liberal. It's simply this, that the world is a kind of corrupt dystopia...the strong take what they want however they can get it...and rules and laws and norms are for suckers."
— David Axelrod, 05:46

• Debate about the difficulty of unilateral reform and the necessity for Democrats to act aggressively in the face of asymmetry.

Notable Quote:

"Sometimes the politics and the merit of the mission marry up. And I think in this case [Newsom] is doing what's appropriate." — David Axelrod, 08:52

3. Gavin Newsom’s National Ambitions—Strengths, Liabilities, and 2028 (10:58–14:56)

• Newsom’s approval rises, especially among women; skepticism remains due to California’s shortcomings (homelessness, drugs), but his political instincts and media savvy generate national buzz.
• Axelrod: While Newsom is well positioned for a presidential run, the road is long and unpredictable.

Notable Quote:

"Right now Gavin Newsom is having a spurt. But there are a lot of tests in a race for president...this is a marathon."
— David Axelrod, 12:49

4. Democratic Messaging, Age Problem, and Digital Savvy (14:56–15:32)

• Democrats struggle with social media influence compared to Trump.
• Age gap among Democratic leaders hinders communication and connection with younger and digital audiences.

5. Trump, Mail-in Ballots, and GOP Turnout Challenges (15:32–18:09)

• Trump’s crusade against mail-in ballots ironically hurts GOP, whose voters formerly benefited from such systems.
• Axelrod notes that many Trump supporters are not habitual voters—a challenge for midterm turnout.

Notable Quote:

"The irony of the whole mail in ballot thing was that it traditionally favored Republicans...the challenge for Trump and the Republicans...is how do we get our voters out who are not habitual?...the added problem...a lot of those voters were motivated by the economy. And that ain't so good."
— David Axelrod, 15:42

6. Democratic Party Identity Crisis & Disconnection with Working Class (19:01–25:00)

• Tarlov and Axelrod discuss why Democrats retain a “degraded brand” with working people and the white working class.
• Axelrod critiques the party’s “missionary”-like attitude and failure to listen or grant respect, especially post-pandemic when “essential workers” were celebrated and then forgotten.

Notable Quote:

"There's this attitudinal thing...as missionaries and as anthropologists...We're here to help you become more like us. And it's laden with...unintended disrespect...because those folks deserve respect."
— David Axelrod, 20:46

• Need for Democrats to offer genuine renewal, not return to a failed status quo.

7. Emergence of Young, Innovative Politicians (25:00–26:47)

• Praise for younger Democrats like Jake Auchincloss, Ruben Gallego, Mallory McMorrow, and particularly Marie Glusenkamp Perez for hands-on, local focus.

Notable Quote:

"I am all about improving the lives of the people that I represent in this space. And, you know, last time I checked, that's what you got hired to do."
— Jessica Tarlov, 25:28

• Moderates who win tough races should not be torn down by purists; authenticity matters.

8. Ukraine, Russia, and the Limits of Trump Diplomacy (29:15–43:37)

Alaska Summit, Putin, and Political Psychology (30:27–34:10)

• Friday's Trump-Putin summit in Alaska brings no real progress; Axelrod emphasizes the performative nature and Trump's pattern of admiration for authoritarian leaders.
• Skepticism over peace guarantee claims, land swaps, and “breakthroughs.”

Notable Quote:

"He went in like a lion and came out like a kitten, which has been the story of his relationship with Putin."
— David Axelrod, 30:27

• Axelrod on Trump’s psychological dynamic: authoritarian admiration, susceptibility to flattery.

Notable Quote:

"Every leader in the world now knows that. All you need to do is flatter Trump...and he will treat you well."
— David Axelrod, 35:41

The Realities of Diplomacy & Lessons from Obama World (40:02–43:37)

• Lessons from prior US presidential resets with Russia (“reset” under Obama); ultimately, Putin remains unchanged in his imperial drive.
• Recognition that Russians’ demands haven’t shifted in years, and caution that “capitulation is not the same as making peace because it doesn't endure.”

9. Obamaworld’s Embrace of Zohran Mamdani and the Meaning of “Hope” (46:34–55:00)

A Progressive Surprise and Party Splits (46:34–50:35)

• Obama, Axelrod, and other Obamaworld figures are reached out to or advising Mamdani, who is painted as offering a positive, forward-looking campaign, especially resonant among young voters.
• Key local issues: housing affordability, class divides in NYC.
• Party leaders (Hakeem Jeffries, Kirsten Gillibrand) are hesitant, while Axelrod encourages national Dems to respect New Yorkers’ decision.

Notable Quote:

"[Mamdani] ran a very positive campaign and captured the imagination of a lot of New Yorkers, and especially younger New Yorkers, who have come to believe...New York is unaffordable...That was a winning message."
— David Axelrod, 47:18

• Axelrod notes complexity of Jewish identity and Israel politics for NY leaders, but stresses city issues trump foreign policy in a mayoral race.

Intergenerational Tensions, Voter Choices, and What’s Next (50:35–55:42)

• Tarlov admits she voted for Cuomo, voices generational and ideological ambivalence typical for many centrist and younger Dems.
• Debate on the risks of “status quo” politics and importance of hope-based campaigns.
• Axelrod highlights the competence and promise—if unknown—of the new rising class.

Notable Quote:

"I'd rather take a bet on a hopeful candidate than on a cynical one."
— David Axelrod, 54:36

Notable Quote:

"[Hope] is one of the best bugs that we've had...I still believe the core of democracy is our ability to use the tools that we're given...to try and perfect our country."
— David Axelrod, 54:53

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On gerrymandering and partisan power games:

  • "You can't partially reform, especially in this environment." — David Axelrod, 08:52

• On Democratic electoral strategy:

  • "Democrats...have become the party of metropolitan college educated voters...as opposed to the sort of kleptocracy...But there is this attitudinal thing..." — David Axelrod, 20:46

• On “Performative Diplomacy”:

  • "Overnight, he said, well, it's up to Zelenskyy. He could end the war right now. Well, yeah, if you surrender." — David Axelrod, 33:25

• On the value of new political leaders:

  • "She knows what farmers and working people...are feeling...She is willing to challenge both parties when necessary, and that's why she's successful." — David Axelrod on Alyssa Slotkin, 26:15

Timestamps of Significant Segments

• Humility & High School Anecdote: 02:28–03:14
• Newsom’s Redistricting & Trump’s Playbook: 04:13–09:32
• Newsom’s National Political Positioning: 10:56–14:56
• Democratic Brand & Working-Class Disconnect: 20:42–25:00
• Emergence of Younger Democrats: 25:00–26:47
• Trump, Republicans, and Mail-In Voting: 15:32–18:09
• Russia/Ukraine and Trump’s Diplomacy: 29:15–43:37
• Obamaworld’s Support & Mamdani’s NYC Win: 46:34–55:42

Final Thoughts

This episode is rich in candid insight about American political strategy and the nature of leadership in a polarized era. Axelrod—true to his centrist, pragmatic roots—argues for authentic engagement, humility, generational renewal, and bold optimism even amid political turbulence. The discussion of Zohran Mamdani’s victory as a potential harbinger for party transformation, with the blessing of the Obama-era establishment, frames the episode as a dialogue between hope and cynicism—the enduring themes at the heart of American politics.