Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov

Episode: How Rage Bait Runs Our Economy
Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Vox Media Podcast Network

Episode Overview

Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov, both self-proclaimed centrist “raging moderates,” tackle how engineered outrage (“rage bait”) dominates American culture, media, and even the economy. Through conversations about Trump’s new immigration crackdown, the calculus of poverty in modern America, and why rage-baiting is now literally the Word of the Year, they dissect how incentive structures—political, economic, and algorithmic—sustain dysfunction and sabotage consensus. The hosts offer both data-driven analysis and personal anecdotes, all through their signature mix of wry humor, candor, and policy expertise.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Trump’s New Anti-Immigrant Actions

[03:59–19:25]

• Overview:
  Scott summarizes Trump’s sweeping new anti-immigrant measures—pausing asylum, freezing visas, vowing to block immigration from “third world countries,” and firing immigration judges deemed too lenient. Nearly 100 judges have been purged nationwide, paralyzing the courts and hurting U.S. businesses dependent on immigrant labor.

  • “This comes as the White House doubles down on crime and chaos rhetoric, even though immigrants commit crimes at far lower rates than US-born citizens and deliver major economic gains.” — Scott [04:01]

• Jessica’s Take:
  Conflating all immigrants into one bucket is both cruel and strategically disastrous. She highlights the chaos inflicted on both innocent migrants and American citizens ensnared by these policies.

  • “They are trying to shake the foundations of American society as the founders saw it. ... I’m deeply concerned, Scott.” — Jessica [07:56]

• Economic and National Security Consequences:

  • Scott details how undocumented workers make up large shares of essential industries (36% of ag workers, 20% of construction, etc.) and predicts:
    • “If you want to see inflation start to tick back up to 4%, we’re on our way.” [08:54]
  • He frames the crackdown as damaging American prosperity for years to come, likening it to a “nuclear option” executed for short-term political points.

• The Pendulum Problem:
  Both hosts lament the wild swing between Democratic and Republican policies—never finding center. Scott calls out performative extremes on both sides:

  • “The pendulum ... is swinging so violently between 3 and 9, it’s not swinging between 4 and 6.” [09:55]

• Need for Smart Policy:
  Jessica argues for differentiated policies for various types of migrants, rather than lumping everyone together.

  • “Just have separate conversations for different types of migrants, for god’s sake.” [17:36]

• Immigration’s Economic Impact:

  • Scott: “Immigration contributes about $3.3 trillion to the US economy annually, as much as 17% of our GDP. The mass deportation efforts ... could lead to a loss of 4 to 7% of GDP.” [14:41]

Notable Exchanges

• Scott (re: economic logic):
  “It feels to me like the Trump administration said to ChatGPT, how could I, most elegantly in line with MAGA ultra conservative doctrine, reduce the economic growth and the prosperity of America over the next two, five, ten years ...” [09:16]
• Jessica, on White House priorities:
  “They act like either nothing’s wrong or it’s always just Blame Biden. ... They are trying to shake the foundations of American society.” [07:45]

2. The Viral “$140,000 Poverty Line” Debate

[21:00–32:23]

• Context:
  Scott introduces a viral Substack post by Michael Green, claiming a modern family of four needs $140,000/year to fully participate in today’s economy—well above the current federal poverty line ($32,000).

  • “Greene calls it the ‘valley of death’: families earning too much for aid, not enough to cover modern expenses.” [21:27]

• Jessica’s Perspective:

  • She welcomes the post for sparking real discussion, while noting $140K is exaggerated.
    • “It has sparked so many important conversations ... every election that we’ve had in the last few years has been an affordability election.” [22:46]
  • Calls for a new category (“poverty plus”) for those caught between working/middle class and government aid.

• Systemic Cost Increases:
  Scott explains how poverty was historically calculated as a multiple of food costs, but now food is a much smaller proportion of spending, while housing, child care, and healthcare have soared.

  • “Now, as a ratio of your expenditures, food has gone way down ... [current method] does not reflect what a family needs to survive.” [27:25]

• What Should the New “Line” Be?

  • Scott: “If you used updated multipliers, you’d end up with a poverty line at $82,000. That seems realistic.” [27:52]
  • He argues for raising the minimum wage and providing universal social goods (childcare, education, healthcare) rather than universal basic income.

Memorable Anecdote

• Scott shares his own “latchkey kid” story—as a child in the ’70s, after his parents’ divorce, he managed his own afterschool care. He contrasts this with Manhattan parents now paying $150K/yr for legal, full-time childcare. [25:03–27:25]

Notable Quotes

• Jessica: “I feel like there needs to be a category ... poverty plus for people ... somewhere in that valley of death, right, heading, you know, between $60,000 and $140,000, where we need real revitalization of the American dream.” [23:19]
• Scott: “The poverty line ... does not reflect accurately the cost of what it is to raise a family.” [27:25]

3. Rethinking Government Aid and Economic Incentives

[32:23–41:26]

• Efficiency of Aid:
  Scott warns against inefficient bureaucracy, prefers direct money to those in need; wants new wealth/inheritance taxes and a strong (“solid floor”) social safety net, but rails against rhetorical promises not backed by real funding.

  • “What I don’t like about Democrats is this rhetorical flourish without saying, okay, this is exactly how we’re going to pay for it. Let’s have an adult conversation.” [35:51]

• Jessica sees promise in Hakeem Jeffries’ “strong floor, no ceiling” slogan—a reframing of Democratic goals for universal opportunity. [30:07]

• Tax Proposals:
  Scott advocates for an alternative minimum tax on millionaires and reducing estate tax exemptions from $30 million to $1 million. [33:53]

4. “Rage Bait” as Word of the Year—and How Rage Drives Economics & Politics

[43:04–57:50]

• What Is Rage Bait?
  Scott explains how outrage has replaced “sex” and aspiration as the primary driver of media, advertising, and attention.

  • “The Internet now runs on engineered outrage ... Rage bait is the vibe of 2025.” [43:04]

• Jessica’s Reflections:

  • Acknowledges the pervasiveness of rage and the toxic feedback loop, especially for content creators.
    • “I feel like I’m just getting dumber, that I’m speaking more often than not in tweets rather than full sentences that my PhD supervisor would be proud of.” [45:24]

• Outrage as Economic Fuel:
  Scott links tech giants’ prosperity directly to their ability to monetize anger.

  • “It teaches you to be an asshole. If you say, ‘Oh, that’s a thoughtful comment,’ the algorithm doesn’t reward it. If you lead with something incendiary, the algorithms love it.” [47:10]
  • He blames: Mark Zuckerberg, Sheryl Sandberg, TikTok, etc. for knowingly profiting off rage, fueling hostility in American society.

• Mental Health Consequences:
  Jessica and Scott both admit struggling to separate themselves from online negativity and the “doom loop” of rage-bait media.

  • “I wish that I was more secure and self-confident ... but I don’t. I do scroll through negative Jessica commentary all the time.” — Jessica [54:03]
  • Scott: “Our entire economy is now based on ten companies trying to get everybody to fight.” [52:48]

• Data on Outrage Economy:
  Scott cites research showing negative words double in media headlines since 2000, and negative/derogatory content is most likely to go viral.

  • “Each additional negative word increased the click-through rate by more than 2 percentage points.” [55:10]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you can’t beat them in court, fire the court. Right?” — Jessica [05:07]
• “The pendulum ... is swinging so violently between 3 and 9 ... the numbers between 3 and 9 no longer exist.” — Scott [09:55]
• “Immigration contributes about $3.3 trillion to the US economy annually ... mass deportation could lead to a loss of 4 to 7% of GDP.” — Scott [14:41]
• “I feel like I’m just getting dumber, that I’m speaking more often than not in tweets rather than full sentences.” — Jessica [45:24]
• “You become where you spend your time.” — Scott [47:01]
• “Our entire economy is now based on ten companies trying to get everybody to fight.” — Scott [52:48]
• “We have connected the prosperity of the companies with the most godlike technology to rage. What could go wrong?” — Scott [55:19]

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Trump’s Immigration Crackdown: [03:59–19:25]
• Viral $140K Poverty Line Debate: [21:00–32:23]
• Government Aid & Tax Policy: [32:23–41:26]
• Rage Bait as Word of the Year / Outrage Economy: [43:04–57:50]

Tone and Takeaways

• Tone: Candid, data-driven, irreverent, occasionally self-deprecating, and always intellectually honest. Scott is blunt and dry; Jessica is passionate, wonky, and a bit wry.
• Core Message:
  The American policy landscape is stuck between extremes, while the digital and political economy rewards rage, not reason. Thoughtful, solution-oriented centrism is continually drowned out by a system built to amplify conflict.

For listeners new to the show, this episode offers a masterclass in why policies, headlines, and even personal behavior are so often shaped by incentives you rarely see—but always feel, especially when rage pays the bills.