How to Actually Drain the Swamp (feat. Rep. Ro Khanna)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
Episode: "How to Actually Drain the Swamp" (feat. Rep. Ro Khanna)
Release Date: May 9, 2025

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Introduction: A Conversation with Rep. Ro Khanna

In this compelling episode of Raging Moderates, host Jessica Tarlov interviews Congressman Ro Khanna, a progressive yet bipartisan-minded representative from California's 17th district in Silicon Valley. Known for his efforts to combat corruption through his Drain the Swamp initiative and his advocacy for economic patriotism, Khanna discusses his vision for revitalizing the Democratic Party and addressing the nation's pressing economic and social challenges.

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Critique of the Trump Administration's Economic Policies

Congressman Khanna opens the discussion by voicing strong criticisms of the Trump administration's economic strategies. He argues that the administration's reliance on outdated 19th-century policies, such as blanket tariffs inspired by President McKinley and expansionist sentiments akin to President James Polk, has severely destabilized the modern economy.

"They are destroying the economy. They are using 19th century ideas... They've destabilized consumer confidence, destabilized the bond market, created volatility in the stock market... manufacturers are having a hard time getting parts."
— Ro Khanna [02:05]

He highlights the repercussions of these policies, including plummeting consumer confidence, rising bond yields, and strained relationships with key allies like Canada, the UK, and Japan. Khanna emphasizes that these economic missteps have led to increased volatility affecting retirees, small businesses, and the manufacturing sector.

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Economic Patriotism: Defining a New Vision

Khanna introduces the concept of economic patriotism, advocating for a 21st-century approach to economic growth that ensures prosperity and security for all American communities, especially those that have been deindustrialized.

"We need to make sure that every community... every family, every child is going to have economic security and economic prosperity in the 21st century."
— Ro Khanna [04:17]

He outlines a multifaceted strategy that includes:

1. Building Infrastructure Nationwide: Combining Silicon Valley's technological prowess with the industrial capabilities of regions like Lorraine and Johnstown.
2. Establishing a White House Economic Development Council: Parallel to the National Security Council, this body would focus on economic revitalization across all communities.
3. Financing Workforce and Technology: Investing in education, healthcare, and advanced manufacturing to foster diversified economic growth.

Khanna underscores the necessity of marrying technology with traditional industries to foster sustainable economic development.

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Democratic Party's Embrace of Economic Renewal

The conversation shifts to the Democratic Party's reception of Khanna's vision. He critiques the party's current leadership for lacking the necessary economic expertise and failing to effectively communicate a promising economic future to the American public.

"I think Democrats need a greater fluency in the language of the economy. We need to be a party that stands for building things."
— Ro Khanna [06:26]

Khanna argues that while many Democrats agree with the buzzwords like manufacturing and steel, there is a disconnect in actionable strategies, particularly in funding the workforce and building domestic supply chains. He emphasizes the importance of involving business leaders in economic renewal and fostering a collaborative environment between the public and private sectors.

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Legislative Initiatives: The Drain the Swamp Act

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Khanna's Drain the Swamp act, aimed at curbing political corruption by restricting gifts and donations from lobbyists to White House officials.

"We should be the party that says, let's clean up the mess."
— Ro Khanna [15:24]

Key components of the act include:

• Prohibiting Gifts from Lobbyists: Extending restrictions beyond current executive orders to all future administrations.
• Abolishing Super PACs: Preventing unlimited donations that undermine fair political competition.
• Ending Stock Trading by Congress Members: Eliminating conflicts of interest within legislative bodies.

Khanna highlights the hypocrisy within the Republican stance on corruption, pointing out instances like the $20 million investment in Trump’s meme coin by a small business, which he condemns as blatant corruption.

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The Medicaid Cuts and Reconciliation Bill

Khanna addresses the proposed $880 billion Medicaid cuts bundled into the reconciliation bill, which aims to provide tax breaks to billionaires at the expense of essential public services.

"It's devastating, these Medicaid cuts... to give tax breaks to the billionaires. I mean, it's ridiculous."
— Ro Khanna [17:58]

He shares insights from his town halls in red districts, revealing widespread constituent outrage over these cuts, which threaten critical healthcare services for vulnerable populations. Khanna criticizes Democratic leadership, particularly Senator Schumer, for not standing firm against such draconian measures.

"Senator Schumer hasn't risen to the moment... He needs to be stronger in standing up to these draconian cuts."
— Ro Khanna [18:58]

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Citizen Mobilization and Civic Uprising

A pivotal theme of the episode is the resurgence of citizen activism in response to governmental overreach and proposed cuts to public services. Khanna recounts inspiring stories of mass protests and coordinated civic efforts that challenge authoritarian tendencies and advocate for democratic participation.

"A mobilized citizenry is unstoppable in this country. Abraham Lincoln said, public sentiment is everything."
— Ro Khanna [21:57]

He emphasizes the importance of nonviolent protest and active engagement in safeguarding democracy, citing examples like the protest in Sackets Harbor, New York, where thousands rallied to support an undocumented family facing deportation.

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The Role of Universities in Democracy

Khanna expresses deep frustration over attacks on American universities, which he views as pillars of democratic society and innovation.

"What makes me rage is the attacks on universities... They are the foundation of a liberal democracy where we have speech and ideas that challenge power."
— Ro Khanna [24:48]

He laments the rising populism that targets academic institutions, undermining their role in medical and technological advancements, and diminishing their status as venues for critical thought and civic discourse.

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Optimism for the Future and a New Progressive Era

Despite the challenges, Khanna remains optimistic about America's future, drawing parallels to historical periods of significant change such as the Progressive Era and the New Deal.

"I'm very optimistic. It's always darkest before the dawn... I think Trumpism is going to give rise to a new progressive era."
— Ro Khanna [23:59]

He believes that the current wave of citizen activism and the Democratic Party's commitment to economic renewal will lead to substantial and positive transformations in the country.

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Closing Thoughts: A Vision for Rebuilding America

In his final remarks, Khanna reiterates his commitment to offering a hopeful and inclusive vision for America's future, advocating for nationwide economic rebuilding that transcends traditional centers of power like Silicon Valley.

"We're going to offer a more hopeful vision... Rebuild it everywhere."
— Ro Khanna [26:47]

He calls for Democrats to move beyond the failed status quo, embracing innovative and equitable economic policies that ensure prosperity for all Americans.

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Conclusion

This episode of Raging Moderates showcases Rep. Ro Khanna's fervent dedication to economic revitalization, anti-corruption measures, and the strengthening of democratic institutions. Through his insightful analysis and passionate advocacy, Khanna provides listeners with a clear understanding of the challenges facing the Democratic Party and the broader American society, while also inspiring hope for a more equitable and prosperous future.

Transcript

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[Jessica Tarlev]

Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlev, and today I've got Congressman Ro Khanna with me. He represents California's 17th district, right in the heart of Silicon Valley. He's known for being a bold progressive, but also someone who knows how to work across the aisle when it counts, whether it's taking on corruption in D.C. with his drain the Swamp act or promoting what he calls economic patriotism. He's pushing for a Democratic Party that's both idealistic and grounded, and he's not exactly subtle with his ambitions. He's got a clear vision for the party's future and maybe even his own. Congressman Khanna, it's great to have you here. Welcome to the show.

[Ro Khanna]

Thank you for having me.

[Jessica Tarlev]

It's so great. I always see you on Fox and I'm like, yeah, I've got a buddy here. So it's wonderful to have you here now on the podcast as well.

[Ro Khanna]

Oh, I'm honored to be on.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I wanted to start kind of big picture. People have been giving their hundred, you know, first hundred days assessment. But what has really stuck out to you most about what the Trump administration is doing?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, they are destroying the economy. I mean, they are using 19th century ideas. Blanket high tariffs by McKinley, a sense that of James Polk, like expansionism, and without understanding the 21st century world. And the consequence has been the lowest consumer confidence in years. The bond yields going up. A really dangerous situation where you've got both. Mark Carney, who was the bank of Canada's governor, bank of England governor, threatening to be selling bonds. And now you've got Japan threatening to be selling bonds. I mean, they're upsetting our allies, really. And the bond yields go up. As you know, that means that the debt is going to be a huge burden. So they've destabilized consumer confidence, destabilized the bond market, created volatility in the stock market, in people's retirements, and small businesses and manufacturers are having a hard time getting parts. So my biggest concern with them is what they've done to the economy. The second thing is the disregard for the Constitution. I saw Karl Rove on the other day, and he said, I don't understand it. Just bring a brego back. Give him a trial. If he's guilty, then you can deport him. But the idea that they've let this drag on for weeks and that they have created fear in this country that any person who's here, even if they're on a legal immigration status, could get a knock on the door and be deported is a violation of rights and really is upsetting people's patriotism in America. Patriotism, first and foremost, means an allegiance to the Constitution.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, well, he, he's not a lawyer, so he's not really sure about his constitutional duties at this point, or at least that's what he told Kristen Welker. But you're dancing around this idea of economic patriotism, which you've been talking about. How do you. Well, first of all, can you define that for our listeners, but then also put it in context of the Democratic Party's leadership, because it has been a big concern of mine that for as terrible as things are going for the Trump administration, and we see it in the approval ratings for the Republican side that Democrats have actually not been able to capitalize on that and to affirm to the American public that we would actually be able to, to do a better job?

[Ro Khanna]

I will answer the question. Economic patriots. And I just do want to say that J.D. vance is a lawyer. We both went to Yale Law School, and I gave a major speech at Yale Law School just a week ago that I hope some folks will check out, calling him out for basically telling the country that there should be no due process for those who are not citizens, which is a violation of the 14th Amendment. And for calling universities the enemy and calling for defying of the court. He knows better. But on economic patriotism, it's pretty simple. We need to say we understand the economic future and we want to make sure that every community in this country, particularly communities that were hollowed out and deindustrialized, that every community, every family, every child is going to have economic security and economic prosperity in the 21st century. And the way we're going to do this is to build things in this country, to build an economy in every part of this country by marrying the technology of places like Silicon Valley, the AI, the robotics with the work ethic, the industrial capability in other parts of the country to build advanced steel plants, to build biotechnology, to build a new industry, but also to have AI academies across this country that have manufacturing work hubs across the country at universities. And then we can go into the specifics. I would just provide three simple ones. I have a White House Economic Development Council, like we have a White House National Security Council that has a Marshall Plan for America and the development of every community in this country. Make sure that we're financing the workforce and the new factories that we want. Let's also make sure we're financing technology and education and health care, recognizing that communities to have economic development are going to diversify. Yes, they need advanced manufacturing factories, but they also need other sectors. And let's build this in places like Lorraine and Johnstown and Milwaukee across this country to help bring this country together.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Well, that sounds great. And it sounds like what Howard Lutnick wishes that he was able to say when he does these haphazard interviews. And I'm being generous with the term haphazard. How have you found that the vision that you just put forward is being embraced by our party?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, let's get all the right buzzwords. He would say, oh, I agree with Roald. We need to have manufacturing, we need to have steel, we need to have Niman and aluminum. My question is how? How? How can you do it when you don't fund the workforce? How can you do it when you don't finance the factories and you're competing with other countries? How can you do it when you don't have government be a source of procurement? How can you do it when you're defunding, not funding universities to build that technology hub? So all he's saying is, well, we're going to have tariffs, but tariffs with. You can't protect industry until you build industry. And tariffs are hurting the manufacturers actually getting the supply parts before we built the supply chain here. So that is the fundamental challenge with Latinx view. One other point, I wish he had few economists around him. He said in this speech that if we lower the trade deficit by $300 billion, we're going to increase our GDP by $300 billion. I wish it was that simple. And so if we eliminate the trillion dollar trade deficit Magically, we debt 3% GDP growth overnight. The problem with that reasoning, if you increase domestic production by lowering the trade deficit, you also reduce capital inflows. And capital inflows go to lower treasury bond yields which go to domestic manufacturing. I know it's a little bit wonky, but it's not a one to one relationship. Now most people don't need to know that, but the Commerce Secretary does. He can't be spouting economic nonsense and, and expect to rebuild the country. I think Democrats need a greater fluency in the language of the economy. I think we need a greater sense of understanding that you have to not just have economic fairness, but economic growth. We need to be a party that stands for building things. We need to be a party that is not afraid to involve business leaders in the economic renewal of this country. We need to be a party that understands that we need technology as part of the economic renewal of this country. And I think there's going to be a clash of ideas for the Democratic future. I, I have my ideas that I'd like to, to, to, to share and that I believe resonate in places like Lorraine, Ohio and Johnstown, Pennsylvania and Orangeburg, South Carolina. But other people have different visions and that's good. Let's just make sure it's not a top down process and a stale process that we really have a clash of ideas and, and think of what can move this country forward.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah. I wanted to ask you about your future plans later in the podcast, but you kind of brought it up already. So how do you see yourself as being part of the conversation and shaping the party's future? Are you thinking about running yourself or supporting someone who has kind of an aligned vision or running yourself?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, it could be either. I don't, I don't know. I'm. What I want to be is a strong economic voice in the country. I'd love for others to take my platform. I mean, it's out there. I write books, I write articles. One of the great things is Chris d' Aluisio liked it and he created a whole group in Congress called Economic Patriots. And there were some great members in there, Pat Ryan and Angie Craig and Chrissy Houlihan, all committed to this agenda of economic renewal, economic revitalization. And so I want to be a strong economic voice for the party. I want our party to. When people think of who's going to lead America into the economic future. Who is going to grow America's economy? Who's going to make sure that this country is wealthy? Not from a 19th century perspective, at a 21st century perspective. Who's going to build economic security for families and communities in this time? I want people to think of the Democratic Party and I want people to say Ro Khanna played a role in getting the Democratic Party to that.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, I imagine that they're going to. And one thing that I've always felt that you've done really well is have the strong progressive bona fides, but also be able to speak like you just did, to the fact that we are a capitalist country and that capitalism is one of, if not the greatest engine for good that we've ever had. And you represent a lot of capitalists. I thought it was really important that you were on. I think your interview was on CNN when people were setting Tesla dealerships on fire and Tim Walls was wanting to tank Tesla stock and you said, I have. Was it 60, 70,000 people in your district whose pensions are tied to Tesla.

[Ro Khanna]

Not 25,000 at Tesla. But of course they spend money and are supportive of the economy and a lot of people in my district are employed. But I would speak out against vandalizing Tesla, cheering for Tesla stock to go down if they were any American company.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Sorry, yes, I. You are not an arsonist. I didn't mean to imply that. But it felt distinctive at this moment where Democrats are kind of trying to claw at anything that was anti elon Musk. For you to just have this common sense approach to answering the question about an American company, but also about capitalism and saying we have to be able to separate whatever our political ambitions are or whatever is resonating the most, which is this anti elon messaging with what's actually right for the country.

[Ro Khanna]

Absolutely. I mean, look, we should be cheering for the success of American companies. We should be cheering for American companies to build wealth, but then to pay workers well, to give workers equity in there, to allow for labor neutrality and unionization to invest across the country. But I am a believer in technology. I'm a believer in entrepreneurship. I'm a believer that you have to have the government investment to build the infrastructure. That's what DARPA did, that's what NSF did with the Internet. But then you need private companies to help scale it and commercialize it. And why do you need private companies to do that as opposed to the government? Because it requires a lot of adjustments and testing and changes and it has to be done very fast to be able to scale. And it is the collaboration between that government investment in the private sector that has allowed for America to emerge as the greatest economy in the world. And that is what we need, not just in places like Silicon Valley, but around the country.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Do you think that trying to bucket people into progressive or centrist moderates is outdated for our party?

[Ro Khanna]

No. I mean, I think that I call myself a progressive capitalist, a pro business progressive, but there are definitely differences of opinion. I mean, I'm proud of the progressive views I have on saying that we need Medicare for All or saying that we need to have higher taxes on. On. Billionaires in my district are saying that we need a living wage. But I also believe that you can have a belief in economic growth and innovation. I don't think that there are people who are centrists or moderate who may disagree with Medicare for All or may not agree that we need higher taxes on the wealthy. And that's fine. We shouldn't be afraid. In the Democratic Party, we sort of have this fear of a clash of ideas. And on the Republican side, they argue all the time. I don't. I think our party has been too stale, has been too timid, has had the same sort of cask of characters around and we need to shake things up.

[Jessica Tarlev]

2028 will definitely be a big shake up, or that's what I'm imagining and hoping for. Can you talk a little bit about your legislation, the Drain the Swamp act, which you recently introduced with Representatives Talib and Lee?

[Ro Khanna]

So I've introduced a couple bills. The Drain the Swamp act is the most obvious. President Biden left some saying there should be a ban on White House officials getting gifts from lobbyists. That was the executive order Biden had and the rule in his administration. President Trump comes in and he takes that executive order away. I said, how is that trained to swamp? So now White House officials can get gifts from lobbyists. Why don't we have a Drain to Swamp act that prohibits White House officials, not just during Trump, but from any future White House, from getting gifts from lobbyists? We as Democrats need to take the mantle against political corruption. I mean, I was flabbergasted yesterday. I read that there is a small business that is paying $20 million to Donald Trump's mean coin. They're buying $20 million and the CEO is bragging that he's hoping that he's going to get exemptions for the trade negotiations with Mexico. How is this happening in plain sight and we aren't railing against it. Our party should Be the party that says, we don't take PAC money. We don't take obvious money. We should be against Super PACs. Abolish them. No one should be allowed to give millions of dollars to a super PAC when they can only give $3,500 to a candidate. That somebody in my bill to do that and main pass that by 70%. We should be, of course, against stock trading. We should be the party that says we're not for members of Congress becoming lobbyists, that lobbyists shouldn't be able to give members money or gifts or White House officials gifts, that no elected official should be able to trade in meme coins. Let's become the party that says, let's clean up the mess.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I feel like we are always that party, right? Who says these things? And then you come up against the fact that the laws haven't changed and you're going to be handicapped versus another side that can take infinite money from super PACs or that can be building resorts in the Middle east or whatever it is that Kushner and Don Jr. Are doing at this point. And does it kind of feel like we would be showing up to a gunfight with a knife?

[Ro Khanna]

You know, I think we can advocate for the legislation, first of all, to stop it before, you know, voluntarily complying. Where I do think we should voluntarily comply is in Democratic primaries. I mean, if, look, if the Republican nominee is Donald Trump, in the past, I had no problem that Mark Kamala Harris had to match the, the spending. But we don't need to do that in a, in a Democratic primary. We can say there can't be unilateral disarmament against a Republican, but that shouldn't apply to a Democratic primary.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I guess the newsiest, bizarre things that Trump is proposing and California centric, the movie tariffs and reopening of Alcatraz, which has, you know, was a tourist attraction, I think, bringing in $60 million a year at this point. What do you make of the proposals? You feel like this is just it's not going anywhere kind of thing, or what are you thinking?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, the movie tariffs are to hurt Hollywood. I mean, Trump knows that we export far more movies than we import and that the only thing this is going to do is hurt Hollywood, which he has been waging a cultural war on. So I stand very strongly with the American film industry to say that we don't want to kneecap one of our great exports to the world on Alcatraz. I mean, that's just like him talking about taking over Greenland or Canada. I Mean, this is his distraction because he knows that he's losing on the economy. He knows that people are upset that he's violating the Constitution. And he keeps throwing things out there to try to change the subject.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, I imagine the subject he wants to change away from some degree are these proposed $880 billion in cuts to Medicaid. Can you talk about what's going on in terms of the reconciliation bill and how you feel like Democratic leadership has been in ushering us so far through this process?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, it is devastating, these Medicaid cuts. And I have been doing town halls across the country. We've done five already, red districts talking about $880 billion of Medicaid cuts to give tax breaks to the billionaires. I mean, it's ridiculous. It makes no sense. And two town halls coming up in competitive red districts in Pennsylvania, in Allentown and in Bucks county. And people are outraged about it. A thousand people showing up at these town halls. So I am convinced that you now have Republicans having second thoughts. We'll see what they do, whether they're going to vote for these draconian budget cuts or not in a couple months. But right now, the Republican budget guts. Public education cuts, medical research for Alzheimer's, for Parkinson's, for cancer cuts, Medicaid funding, all to finance more tax breaks for billionaires.

[Jessica Tarlev]

And what about the leadership component on this for Leader Jeffries and then also for Schumer in the Senate?

[Ro Khanna]

Well, look, I've been candid that Senator Schumer hasn't risen to the moment. And I worked with him to do the CHIPS Act. He was very effective during President Biden, Biden's years in the White House. But he needs to be stronger in standing up to these draconian cuts. And I don't know why he didn't try to get a better deal when he negotiated and just capitulated to Trump and mosque on Leader Jeffries. I think he has the strong support of his caucus. He will be speaker. He has a clear strategy of targeting. Of these 30 red districts we're doing, being very aggressive and organizing their phone banks there, town halls there, advertising there. And I'm confident that he's going to be the next speaker.

[Jessica Tarlev]

What do you hear the most often from these town halls when you're showing up in these red districts? What are their top concerns? The constituents?

[Ro Khanna]

Fear. Fear. Two places of fear. Immigrants who show up, say, I'm concerned for my family, for people who may get a knock on the door and be deported without any due process. Deported to a Dictatorship. It's a scary place in America if you are an immigrant who has not been naturalized or citizen. People feel very, very vulnerable. And then I have people coming to me and saying cutting the cancer trials was a death sentence for someone I know. What am I going to do when mom came to me in tears? What am I going to do with my 2 year old? He was in NICU, he survived, he had health issues. He has a full time nurse with him and he's finally going to get to go to preschool. He needs this nurse. And Medicaid gets cut. I'm not going to have this person nurse to be able to take him to school. These are real stories, real people who rely on basic government services not because they're looking for a handout, but because they need the health care and education to be able to lead meaningful lives, to be able to work, to be able to support families. And they're fearful that this is going to be snatched away from them.

[Jessica Tarlev]

How are they feeling about their own representatives?

[Ro Khanna]

They feel that they can't be heard. That's the biggest source of anger. The Republicans have said they don't do a town hall. And so they're inviting in people like me to do town halls. And thousand people show up and they just want to shake my hand, they just want to have a question. They don't even know if I can do anything. But at least I'm listening. At least I'm listening. Now in some cases these town halls at work, Republicans have flipped their vote. David Valdeo said he was going to cut Medicaid, voted to cut Medicaid. We did our town hall a few weeks later. He said now he's against the cut. So people are seeing that their speaking up is working. And that's what gives me hope in this country. I mean, we are seeing citizens mobilized, showing up to town hall, showing up to protest. There's a Harvard professor who said that in society is moving towards authoritarianism. If 3.5% of a population get active, that is the best safeguard against a move towards authoritarianism. That's about 10 million people or so in the United States and we're seeing that kind of mobilization.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, that was definitely the message that J.B. pritzker, the governor of Illinois was delivering in that New Hampshire speech where he said, you, you have to be out there. And you did see like there was an immigration case in Sackets Harbor, New York where I think the town of 1400, a thousand people showed up to support this undocumented family that had been taken by ice, and they were returned. Do you think that having mass protests or this coordinated civic uprising, nonviolent, of course, is the way forward?

[Ro Khanna]

I do. And I was so moved by that story where it was MAGA support, it was Trump supporters saying, you can't be deporting kids in this country. They were. That's not who we are as Americans. And I have seen a rejuvenation of the American spirit of democratic participation I haven't witnessed my whole life. People are reclaiming their rights as citizens. They find it offensive that the world's wealthiest person is determining how our country should be run. They find it offensive that any person, even if they're president, can get to defy the courts or the Constitution. They find it offensive that people are threatening the services that they've relied on since the New Deal, since fdr, and they are speaking out. And a mobilized citizenry is unstoppable in this country. Abraham Lincoln said, public sentiment is everything. And so I appreciate the people who are spending hours standing in line, going to these town halls, standing in line, going to rallies, writing to their members of Congress. It all matters. Don't let people tell you it doesn't matter. It matters. It's why the president's approval ratings are coming down. It's why members of Congress are suddenly flipping their votes. It's why, in certain cases, people, the media is highlighting unjust deportations, and some of them are being stopped. It's not Congress. It's not the Senate. Other than the bond market, that's been the biggest check on Donald Trump. The other check has been the American citizens.

[Jessica Tarlev]

So you're optimistic?

[Ro Khanna]

I'm very optimistic. It's always darkest before the dawn. And in American history, after the Civil War, we had the 13th, 14th, 15th amendment. After the robber baron era, we had the Progressive era that outlawed child labor and had some sense of the work week, hours of the work week. After Hoover crashed the economy, we had FDR and the New Deal, and then after George W. Bush, we had Obama. I think Trumpism is going to give rise to a new progressive era.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Well, that's exciting to me. And looking at our approval ratings, I'm certainly concerned. But the way that you paint it makes me think there will be a brighter day to come. I wanted to ask you our final question. We asked all our guests this. What's one issue that makes you rage and what's one issue that you think we should all calm down about?

[Ro Khanna]

What makes me rage is the attacks on universities in this country, calling them the enemy, threatening to Defund them, the universities. It's not just that they have been the leaders of medical research in this country. It's not just that they've been the leaders of technology research that gave the world the Internet, that gave the world the gpu, that gave the world robotics and AI. It's that they are the place for thought in the questioning people in power. That they are the foundation of a. A liberal democracy where we have speech and ideas that challenge power. In the attack on them out of a false populism by the same people who went to those universities, who want their kids to go to those universities is ranked hypocrisy and is really degrading democracy. I mean, you know, John F. Kennedy said there are a few earthly things more beautiful than a university. And from that pinnacle of America is a light of hope for civilization. This is how far we've fallen. What gives me hope in this country is the decency and resilience of the American people. There was anger in this country because places like Lorain, Ohio, and Johnstown, Pennsylvania, and Galesburg, Illinois, had been dealt a raw deal. The factories had shut down, the communities had closed, and they wanted the system change, but that doesn't mean they wanted America burned down. And so I believe that people will correct the leadership. And it's for Democrats to say we aren't just going to go back to a status quo that has failed people. We're going to offer a more hopeful vision. The kind of vision Hamilton had, Lincoln had, FDR had to rebuild this country for the 21st century. Rebuild it not just in Silicon Valley or Seattle, but rebuild it everywhere.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Love it. All right, thank you, Congressman Khanna, for your time. It was so nice to have you.

[Ro Khanna]

Thank you, Jesse. Appreciate it.