Podcast Summary: Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov

Episode: How to Fight (and Beat) Trump in Court
Release Date: June 20, 2025
Guest: Sky Perryman, President and CEO of Democracy Forward
Hosts: Jessica Tarlov and Scott Galloway
Network: Vox Media Podcast Network

1. Introduction

The episode kicks off with Jessica Tarlov welcoming Sky Perryman, the President and CEO of Democracy Forward, a prominent national nonprofit organization focused on legal and public policy challenges. Perryman was recently named to Time magazine's list of the 100 Most Influential People of 2025, highlighting her significant impact in combating actions taken by the Trump administration.

[01:08] Jessica Tarlov: "Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlov and my guest today is Sky Perryman..."

2. Democracy Forward and Its Mission

Sky Perryman provides an overview of Democracy Forward, emphasizing its nonpartisan stance and its commitment to defending democratic principles through legal action. The organization employs a diverse team of lawyers, policy experts, and communicators to challenge governmental overreach and protect citizens' rights.

[01:50] Sky Perryman: "Democracy Forward, we're a nonpartisan nonprofit. We're a legal organization... We do a lot of work to also educate the public through reports... and helping people engage in their own communities locally at this critical, critical time."

3. Congressional Testimony

Perryman recounts her recent testimony before Congress alongside three Democratic governors. The hearing, initiated by the Republican majority Oversight Committee, focused on immigration, specifically targeting "sanctuary state governors." Perryman highlighted the ambiguity surrounding the "sanctuary state" designation and used the platform to discuss broader concerns about democratic backsliding.

[02:37] Jessica Tarlov: "And you were recently just in Congress last week... how you ended up being the one non gubernatorial guest on the panel."

[02:59] Sky Perryman: "The committee members get to invite who they wish... It was an honor to get to do that. But it was a long day."

4. The Judiciary's Role in Upholding Democracy

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the judiciary's crucial role in countering the Trump administration's attempts to undermine democratic norms. Perryman details how courts across the political spectrum have consistently ruled against the administration's overreaches, reinforcing the courts' independence and integrity.

[04:14] Sky Perryman: "We have seen in under 200 days, the courts have had to rule against this administration more than 170 times... These are judges of all political affiliations..."

[07:17] Sky Perryman: "I am both confident in the courts and also believe the courts are not the institution that is going to save us. So... the strategy is courts plus people."

5. Mass Protests and Public Mobilization

Perryman discusses the recent "No Kings" protests, which saw millions of Americans rallying against perceived autocratic tendencies in the administration. She underscores the importance of public mobilization in effecting change and pressuring elected officials to uphold democratic values.

[09:53] Jessica Tarlov: "We saw millions of people marching... Can you talk about what you see the impact of things like the no Kings protest?"

[10:52] Sky Perryman: "Starting in April, and now we're starting to see now millions of people on the streets... The people showing up matter."

6. Challenges Faced by Lawyers and Democracy Forward

The conversation shifts to the personal and professional challenges lawyers like Perryman face in the current political climate. Despite threats and public backlash, Perryman emphasizes the unwavering commitment of her team to defend constitutional rights.

[21:57] Jessica Tarlov: "Can you talk a little bit about what it's like to be a lawyer right now?"

[22:33] Sky Perryman: "Our obligation is to the Constitution. It's to the rule of law... Without lawyers willing to go to court, the last 130 days would be much worse."

7. Reproductive Healthcare and Abortion Rights

Perryman delves into the ongoing battles over reproductive healthcare, highlighting how the administration's actions post-Dobbs decision are obstructing access to essential services. She warns of the broader implications these tactics could have on other areas of healthcare and public trust in scientific institutions.

[28:03] Jessica Tarlov: "Can you talk about the state of play when it comes to the women's reproductive health space?"

[28:40] Sky Perryman: "The Supreme Court has rolled back for a generation... the administration... trying to create misinformation and junk science to change the narrative."

8. Legislative Efforts and the Big Beautiful Bill

The discussion turns to recent legislative proposals, including the "Big Beautiful Bill," which Democracy Forward is actively monitoring. Perryman expresses concerns about provisions that could restrict access to courts and impede individuals from holding the government accountable.

[32:54] Jessica Tarlov: "I wanted to ask you quickly about the big beautiful bill. What role is Democracy Forward playing in the deliberations about the bill?"

[33:13] Sky Perryman: "We're focused on making sure people understand the critical nature of these access to court provisions... We're watching all of those things."

9. Concluding Thoughts: Rage and Resilience

In the final segment, Perryman shares what fuels her passion and what she believes society needs to moderate. She is outraged by the politicization of tragic events and the demonization of marginalized groups, viewing these as classic signs of autocratic behavior. Conversely, she urges people to remain focused on the broader fight against rising authoritarianism, emphasizing collective action and vigilance.

[35:28] Sky Perryman: "What makes me rage is the polarization and demonizing of people groups... This is happening right now before our very eyes."

[35:28] Sky Perryman: "What people should calm down about... we are trying to combat a really rapidly accelerating autocracy."

Notable Quotes

• Sky Perryman [04:14]: "These are judges of all political affiliations... Six-seven times they have had to stand up and say no to overreach."

• Sky Perryman [07:17]: "The strategy is courts plus people. And fundamentally it's going to have to be the people that say no more."

• Sky Perryman [10:52]: "People that are in power... using their power to target and demonize particular people groups... can really endanger our national community and our democracy as a whole."

• Sky Perryman [21:57]: "The work that we're able to do on behalf of people is stopping some of the most callous and harmful actions that this administration is taking."

• Sky Perryman [35:28]: "We are trying to combat a really rapidly accelerating autocracy. ... This is a five alarm fire. They're not made up. It is happening right now."

Conclusion

The episode of Raging Moderates provides a comprehensive look into the legal and grassroots efforts spearheaded by Democracy Forward to counteract the Trump administration's attempts to undermine democratic institutions. Through Sky Perryman's insights, listeners gain an understanding of the critical interplay between the judiciary and public activism in safeguarding democracy. The discussion highlights both the challenges and the resilience of those committed to upholding constitutional rights in a tumultuous political landscape.