Podcast Summary: Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov

Episode: ICE’s War Turns Deadly, Trump Seizes Oil Tankers, and RFK’s At It Again

Date: January 9, 2026
Hosts/Guests: Jessica Tarlov, Aaron Parness
Vox Media Podcast Network

Episode Overview

This episode centers on a series of escalating flashpoints in U.S. politics and global affairs: a deadly ICE shooting in Minneapolis and its aftermath; the Trump administration's increasingly aggressive foreign policy, including the seizure of Venezuelan oil tankers and talk of military expansion; RFK Jr.'s controversial vaccine statements; and the ongoing Epstein investigation. Jessica Tarlov and Aaron Parness, in their signature sharp and centrist style, dissect each controversy, exploring the common theme of governmental overreach and the erosion of public trust.

Key Discussions and Insights

1. ICE Shooting in Minneapolis: Federal Power, Local Authority, and Erosion of Trust

• Incident Summary: An ICE agent fatally shot Renee Nicole Good, a widow and mother, in Minneapolis. Federal officials quickly labeled it self-defense, while local officials and the public questioned the official narrative given video evidence and federal preemptiveness.

• Initial Reactions:

  • Aaron Parness: "[America] has never been so divided when it comes to immigration enforcement, ever. ...There was no middle ground." (03:12)
  • Criticizes the federal government's quick self-defense claim without thorough investigation, citing inaccuracies in official statements and a lack of fact-finding.
  • Notes bipartisan concern—Republicans and Democrats alike questioned the situation and officer behavior.
  • Explicitly criticizes ICE involvement: "ICE probably shouldn't have been there that day. If ICE wasn't there that day, she'd be alive today." (08:43)

• Policy and Training Critique:

  • Jessica Tarlov: Cites ICE and DOJ use-of-force policy, explaining officers are not permitted to shoot at moving vehicles except in extreme, demonstrable risk scenarios.
  • Video evidence shows officer actions were outside protocol: multiple shots fired, apparent opportunities to move to safety ignored.
  • Aaron adds: "ICE agents only get 47 days of training under this administration. ...They're just picking people off ...off the streets and saying, hey, you're deputized as an ICE agent." (09:18)

• Broader Implications:

  • Both hosts see this as a flashpoint in public trust and possible escalation:
    • Aaron: "These people are emboldened, more so than I think I've ever seen. I wouldn't be surprised if they double down, triple down, and go even harder after this." (11:44)
    • Chrisit Noem's immediate labeling as domestic terrorism is cited as a media strategy, not a fact-based reaction.

2. Trump’s Foreign Policy: Seizing Oil Tankers, Military Flexing, and the “Don Row Doctrine”

• Foreign Policy Pattern:

  • Jessica: Outlines current U.S. actions: seizing Venezuelan oil tankers, issuing demands to Caracas, speculating about military action in Greenland, imposing new Russia sanctions.
  • References the "Don Row Doctrine," from Eurasia Group's top risks report.
    • "There’s coherence in the incoherence. Trump’s foreign policy agenda is chaos." (12:58, Aaron)
    • Strategy is unpredictable action, ostensibly to keep adversaries off-balance. Yet, actions alienate allies as well as adversaries.

• Motivations Beyond Oil:

  • Both hosts question what was actually on the seized Venezuelan oil tanker.
    • Aaron: "There was no oil, right? ...What was on that boat that the United States wanted so desperately? I think that’s what American people need to know." (15:23)
    • Raises suspicions about ulterior motives and destabilization.

• Escalation, Mini-Wars, and Global Impact:

  • Jessica: Worries U.S. could trigger a series of "mini wars" by targeting proxy actors (cartels, non-state actors) in Mexico, Iran, Cuba, and Nicaragua.
  • Aaron: "For the first time since Bush, we have a president now willing to use the military to get what he wants abroad...it is destabilizing the world order." (16:05–16:49)

• NATO/Allies Concerns:

  • Acknowledges the fragility of NATO and the risk of U.S. moves “blowing up” the alliance—especially if military action occurs in Greenland or other allied territories.
    • Jessica: "It does fall perfectly into the hands of Putin, who would love nothing more than a completely destabilized, let alone shattered, NATO..." (16:49)

• Trump’s Motivation:

  • Aaron (jokingly): “He holds his grudge against NATO because he thinks that Norway refused to award him the Nobel Peace Prize…he wants to be like Obama at the end of the day." (18:48)

3. RFK Jr., Vaccine Policy Backlash, and CDC Changes

• RFK Jr.’s Comments:

  • Downplayed the need for flu and meningitis vaccines, even as CDC removed meningitis from routine recommendations.
    • Jessica: "They’re saying, well, no kids are getting it anymore. It’s like, well, yeah, because there’s a vaccine for it." (21:00)

• Public Health Risk:

  • More expensive vaccines mean less access, especially for low-income families.
  • Aaron: “Every single time [doctors say], don’t listen to what the government is saying. And that is actually bonkers to me…” (21:54)
  • U.S. is about to lose its measles elimination status due to rising cases. (22:44, Aaron)

• Economic & Policy Context:

  • Healthcare debates are ongoing as ACA subsidies end, increasing public health instability.

4. Epstein Investigation: Congressional Subpoenas, DOJ, and Accountability

• Current Status:

  • DOJ struggling to process millions of documents; oversight committees have subpoenaed major players.
    • Aaron: "Name me the last time a subpoena was enforced after someone didn’t abide by it in Congress, it just doesn’t happen anymore.” (24:30)

• Survivors’ Frustration:

  • Congress had no plan for an expected Trump defiance of court orders on file release.
  • There’s a push for the DOJ Inspector General and perhaps a court-appointed special master to review the files.
    • Over 20 AUSAs tied up in Epstein/Maduro cases, slowing all efforts.

• Justice and Political Will:

  • Both hosts express skepticism that meaningful accountability or transparency will be achieved while Trump is president.

5. Lightning Round: Gun Violence & Political Frustration

• Aaron: "We've had more mass shootings than days in the year in 2026. ...Eight days in and nine mass shootings." (27:08)
• Jessica's closing tone: Even Aaron—the Zen one—is feeling “hair on fire” in 2026.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On ICE shooting & government trust:
  "Looking at the video, ...the officer actually takes the gun out of the holster before the vehicle is moving forward...he could have just stepped aside."
  — Aaron Parness (07:42)

• On foreign policy chaos:
  “There’s coherence in the incoherence. Trump’s foreign policy agenda is chaos.”
  — Aaron Parness (12:58)

• On vaccine policy shifts:
  "When these vaccines come off the regular schedule, they're going to become more expensive to get..."
  — Jessica Tarlov (21:54)

• On the Epstein investigation’s gridlock:
  “The fact that there was no plan for the day after is really concerning to a lot of survivors, and it’s really concerning just generally.”
  — Aaron Parness (24:30)

• On mass shootings and public mood:
  "There's nothing that people should calm down about right now. ...People need to make their voices heard in this moment. This isn’t a time to just, like, chill."
  — Aaron Parness (27:20)

Key Timestamps

• 01:08 – Show intro, New Year banter
• 02:18 – ICE shooting incident and immediate reactions begin
• 07:24 – Analysis of official response and media strategy
• 09:18 – ICE agent training/qualification discussed
• 11:22 – ICE policy prospects under Trump
• 12:09 – Foreign policy discussion: Venezuela, Greenland, "Don Row Doctrine"
• 14:33 – Oil tanker incident and possible motives
• 16:00 – Prospect of U.S. military actions in Mexico, other regions
• 18:48 – Trump’s NATO/Nobel Peace Prize motives
• 20:32 – Return from ad break; RFK Jr. vaccine controversy
• 21:54 – Broader vaccine policy concerns
• 24:06 – Epstein files investigation; congressional action (or lack thereof)
• 27:08 – Lightning round: gun violence and public rage

Summary & Tone

Jessica Tarlov and Aaron Parness deliver a fast-paced, sharp, and frequently exasperated round-up of 2026’s early-year political storms. With deeply informed, centrist critique, they highlight extreme policy overreach and governmental accountability gaps—domestically and globally—delivering both granular policy detail and memorable moments of gallows humor. The episode resonates with urgency: outrage over police violence, skepticism of both parties, and concern that Americans in the center are being ignored even as the stakes rise.

For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode is a portrait of a nation “at the flashpoint”—where calls for moderation and evidenced debate feel more urgent, and perhaps more embattled, than ever.