Immigration Enforcement Ends in Minneapolis — Now What?

Summary

Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov

Episode Summary: "Immigration Enforcement Ends in Minneapolis — Now What?"

Date: February 13, 2026 | Host: Vox Media Podcast Network
Co-hosts: Jessica Tarlov & Erin Parnas

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on major news stories through a centrist lens, including:

• Attorney General Pam Bondi’s contentious congressional testimony on Epstein files.
• GOP cracks on support for tariffs and defiance of Trump.
• The fast conclusion of the high-profile ICE/immigration enforcement surge in Minneapolis, and broader implications for immigration policy.

The hosts break down the political strategies at play, analyze the effectiveness of oversight and hearings, and discuss midterm political dynamics, public sentiment, and how these events affect real people—especially survivors and voters in the middle.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pam Bondi's Congressional Testimony: The Epstein Files

[01:45 – 12:09]

• Stonewalling and Theatrics (Pam Bondi):
  • Bondi refused to answer questions directly, especially on the DOJ’s handling of Epstein files and co-conspirators.
  • Erin Parnas criticized both Bondi's evasions and the Democratic strategy:
    "She didn't answer a single question... I thought that the Democratic plan going into it was horrible... They just used it as a way to talk for five minutes." (Erin, 03:55)
  • Jessica was emotionally moved by Bondi’s refusal to even look at survivors in the room:
    "Almost crying when she wouldn't even turn to look at the survivors. Which seems like the lowest level of basic decency..." (Jessica, 02:56)
• Missed Opportunities in Oversight:
  • Both hosts agree the Democrats failed to press on key issues (e.g., indicting co-conspirators, six lawmakers almost indicted, etc.):
    "No one asked about the six Democratic lawmakers who were almost indicted. To me, that was kind of crazy..." (Erin, 07:11)
• Media Environment & Grandstanding:
  • Viral moments and fundraising have overtaken substantive oversight. "Everybody's just looking for their moment in the sun... But we are talking about a sex trafficking ring. It's not your regular or average story..." (Jessica, 05:07)
• Justice Department Frustrations:
  • Both see a lack of real action from both parties and past Justice Departments.
  • Opportunities exist for bipartisan accountability, but action is not being taken. "If they have enough to do that [name Wexner a co-conspirator], they have enough to secure an indictment, in my opinion, if they want to." (Erin, 11:06)

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2. GOP and Tariffs: Republican Defiance of Trump

[12:09 – 17:14]

• Republican Political Calculus:
  • Some House Republicans broke ranks on tariffs (“symbolic” votes) to distance themselves from Trump ahead of the midterms. "They want to stay employed. That's why." (Erin, 12:54) "I don't think Trump is actually going to primary someone in a 50-50 district. He'll say it, but I don't think he'll do it." (Erin, 13:12)
• Electoral Pressures:
  • Tariffs are historically unpopular; vulnerable members trying to signal distance from Trump in tough districts.
  • Tariffs cost an average family over $1,000 a year, expected to rise to $1,300. "Tax Foundation calculated $1,000 per average family last year because of the tariff. This year it's going to go up to $1300." (Jessica, 14:21)
• Economic Messaging Woes:
  • Good jobs report provides thin political cover; skepticism on both sides. "So do I have to believe the good ones now? ... These job numbers aren't even that great." (Erin, 15:26) "It's just not zero or negative. It's the participation trophy of the jobs number." (Jessica, 15:54)
  • The real economy isn’t matching positive headlines for many. "If the average American isn't experiencing support and help in the job market, then it's all for not." (Erin, 17:14)
• Memorable moment: Erin jokes about Biden’s “participation trophy” in relation to jobs numbers.
  "It's the first time in history that a FIFA prize winner also won this participation trophy as well..." (Erin, 16:01)

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3. Immigration Enforcement Shifts: The Minneapolis Drawdown

[19:11 – 26:53]

• The ICE Surge Ends Abruptly:
  • Officials announced the end of the “surge” in Minneapolis just weeks after it began. "That was fast. Right? It was just, what, two weeks ago that Homan showed up... now the surge is over." (Jessica, 20:43)
  • Skepticism whether enforcement will truly be scaled back or simply shifted elsewhere. "I'm kind of still in the I'll believe it when I see it mode... it's going to take some time for them to move out..." (Erin, 21:07)
• The Future of ICE:
  • Erin distinguishes between abolishing ICE entirely and “abolishing Trump’s ICE,” supporting civil enforcement for violent criminals but not mass deportations of contributing undocumented immigrants. "I never liked the moniker abolish ICE. I actually preferred Abolish Trump's ICE. Just this version of the department..." (Erin, 22:12)
• Democratic Leverage and Shutdown Politics:
  • Anticipation of a government shutdown over funding for ICE/DHS, with both sides feeling they have leverage. "I think it's going to last through Trump's State of the Union... I am not funding ICE and DHS in its current form. You hold out as long as you need to until they cave." (Erin, 22:11, 25:24)
  • Jessica raises concerns about broader government services:
    "DHS also covers FEMA, they cover the GSA..." (Jessica, 26:05)
• Wider Implications for Immigration Debate:
  • Erin: "What's going to happen next? ... Or are we just going to put a pause on this, put a pin on immigration until December, until after the midterms so people forget about it a little more?" (22:55)
  • Jessica: "It would be smart of them since, you know, Donald Trump took his most popular issue and flushed it down the toilet..." (23:19)

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4. Miscellaneous Key Segments

RFK Jr.'s "Eat Real Food" Campaign

[27:11 – 29:19]

• Discussion about RFK Jr.'s pivot to food policy amid his vaccine messaging.
• Critique of both parties’ inept messaging on food safety and health issues. "Democrats could have messaged it better, but I don't think they're messaging it that well either right now." (Erin, 28:30)

Pelosi Backs Jack Schlossberg in NY-12 Race

[29:19 – 30:37]

• The role of loyalty and effectiveness of Pelosi's endorsement debated.
• Insight into local NYC politics and the Kennedy legacy in fundraising and attention.

Royals & Epstein Updates

[30:37 – 32:24]

• Reports that Queen Elizabeth paid Prince Andrew’s settlement to Virginia Giuffre.
• Jessica: “This feels very bad for the monarchy, like, way worse than Prince Andrew actually existing.” (31:26)

Olympics & Free Speech: Ukrainian Skeleton Racer Disqualified

[32:24 – 32:59]

• IOC’s ban on honoring slain Ukrainian athletes called out as inconsistent. "When a Ukrainian wants to support those who died at the hands of the Russian government, like, come on, come on, IOC." (Erin, 32:59)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bondi's performance & oversight:

  • "She didn't answer a single question... I thought that the Democratic plan going into it was horrible." (Erin, 03:55)
  • “Almost crying when she wouldn’t even turn to look at the survivors… lowest level of basic decency…” (Jessica, 02:56)

• On the problem with hearing culture:

  • “Everybody’s just looking for their moment in the sun and their takedown.” (Jessica, 05:07)

• On ICE surge ending:

  • “That was fast… Were you surprised? I was surprised that it was this quick.” (Jessica, 20:43)

• On the drawbacks of shutdown brinksmanship:

  • “Democrats have all of the leverage for the first time, I really think in a long time, they have all of the leverage. …Use it.” (Erin, 26:09)

• Personal Touch:

  • Erin humorously rages about late-night Amtrak schedules: “I hate the fact that the Amtrak schedule from D.C. to New York… does not run after, like 11pm…” (Erin, 33:23)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Pam Bondi hearing & Epstein files: 01:45 – 12:09
• GOP tariffs rebellion: 12:09 – 17:14
• Minneapolis ICE drawdown & immigration: 19:11 – 26:53
• RFK Jr. & health politics: 27:11 – 29:19
• Pelosi, NY-12 race: 29:19 – 30:37
• Royal Family/Epstein payment: 30:37 – 32:24
• Olympics, Ukraine protest: 32:24 – 32:59
• Erin’s “rage”/Amtrak: 33:23 – 34:10

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Tone & Takeaways

• Tone: Candid, informed, wry, bipartisan-criticizing, with both policy depth and pop culture asides.
• Big-picture themes:
  • Congressional decorum and oversight are broken by media incentives.
  • Political parties are often out of step with both substance and messaging.
  • ICE enforcement and border politics remain central but fraught with political risk.
  • Both co-hosts maintain a “raging moderate” skepticism about partisan strategies and false victories.

For centrist listeners, this episode offers a reality check on the effectiveness of Washington’s rhetoric and the constraints facing pragmatic governance.

Transcript

[Erin Parnas]

Coming up on Today explained. I talked to one of the top stars of the Democratic Party and one of the most divisive about her run for Senate in Texas. I wonder, like, is there times in which the rhetoric goes too far? Are there times in which you should say, you know, maybe I messed that one up?

[Jessica Tarlev]

No, not in this environment. I don't. I think that, you know, we are really in unchartered territory.

[Erin Parnas]

Representative Jasmine Crockett this week on Today explained. Listen, wherever you get your podcast.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Does the winter weather have you feeling tired, antisocial, sad? You may want to take a cue.

[Erin Parnas]

From our friends in Norway.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Really. They tend to orient towards the things that they like about the season instead of just sort of seeing it as a time of year to endure. How to embrace the winter. That's on the next. Explain it to me. New episodes every Sunday, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Erin Parnas]

Hi, this is Bella Freud.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I'm the host of Fashion Neurosis. This week on the show, Esther Perel is on my couch.

[Erin Parnas]

Erotic recovery is part of trauma healing.

[Jessica Tarlev]

God, that's interesting. It's not the reward at the end. Yeah. That's the difference.

[Erin Parnas]

And I think we both come together around that construct.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah. Find fashion neurosis on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlev.

[Erin Parnas]

And I'm Erin Parnas.

[Jessica Tarlev]

And in today's episode, we're discussing Pam Bondi's disastrous testimony, cracks in the GOP's support for tariffs, and the end of immigration enforcement in Minneapolis. If you aren't already, please make sure to subscribe to our YouTube page to get up to date coverage on everything that's happening. All right, Erin, let's get into it. This week's House hearing with Attorney General Pam Bondi turned into an all out Epstein match as she stonewalled Democrats for four hours and refused to apologize for the DOJ's handling of the files, even with survivors in the room.

[Erin Parnas]

How many of Epstein's co conspirators have you indicted?

[Jessica Tarlev]

You showed it. I find it. How many have you indicted? Excuse me?

[Erin Parnas]

I'm going to answer the question.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Answer my question. No, I'm going to answer the question the way I want to answer the question. Theatrics are raised the way I asked it, Chairman Jordan. I'm not going to get in the gutter with these people.

[Erin Parnas]

You can let her filibuster all day long, but not on our watch, not on our time. No way. And I told you about that Attorney.

[Jessica Tarlev]

General before you started. You don't tell me.

[Erin Parnas]

No, I did tell you because we saw what you did in the Senate. Lawyer. Not even a lawyer.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Was the President aware of Secretary Lutnick's ties to Epstein when he chose him to lead the Department of Commerce? Chris Malan was a Border patrol agent. Okay, so I'm going to conclude that the President, in fact did know about his ties because he was the next door neighbor. Shame on you. Oh, for goodness sakes. This is not a game, Secretary. I'm Attorney General. My apologies. I couldn't tell. So I was on an airplane while this hearing was going on and consuming these clips in the sky. And I feel like if anyone was watching my face, like they would never figure out that I was watching a hearing because it was like some insane movie where I was like, oh, no, she didn't. And then like, oh, is that really happening? And then almost crying when she wouldn't even turn to look at the survivors. Which seems like the lowest level of basic decency that you could give to people. What were your big takeaways?

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, I felt like I was watching the Five. I mean, it was just, it was kidding.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I was about to be like, I wonder if it was lower or higher rated because that, that's what Trump is looking for. He's like, did we get a big number?

[Erin Parnas]

My big takeaways kind of are twofold. Number one, she didn't answer a single question. Like she didn't about the Epstein files or really anything that Democrats threw her way. I think number two, and people may be mad at me for this, but I thought that the Democratic plan going into it was horrible. I mean, like I, I, I think, like, yes, you have a very combative witness, but also like, do better in terms of cross examining her. I think a lot of the members on the Democratic side just used it as a way to talk for five minutes. Sometimes they spoke for four and a half minutes and didn't ask a question. Right. I mean, I thought it was ineffective. So there were real opportunities to kind of press her on some key things. Like for example, if I were up there, I would have brought up the 86 page indictment with the three co conspirators and forced her to answer whether or not certain names were in there and then force her to go on record saying, I can't answer whether or not Trump is in there. Right. Like there are ways to kind of get some information out. And I didn't feel like it was that productive, unfortunately. And unfortunately for the survivors, I tweeted out yesterday that the Real losers in the hearing, I mean, are the survivors, those are the ones who lost. Like, at the end of the day, Democrats will move on, Republicans will move on, like Bondi will move on. But the survivors, they're stuck.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Absolutely. And I think the point about the line of questioning could almost be applied to any hearing. I mean, we so rarely get anything of substance out of these. And because of the way the algorithm is designed, the way media is today, fundraising, etc, everybody's just looking for their moment in the sun and their takedown. I mean, every fundraising email that I got was like, did you see me with Pam Bonnet? I had members of Congress who I'm big fans of, you know, texting me their viral tweets. And I get it. Like, yeah, some of it was impressive for sure. But this story does feel different because we are talking about a sex trafficking ring, right? Like, it's not your regular or average story that we would be talking about in one of these hearings, I would say, and I'm not a lawyer, but I have consumed a lot of TV and both my parents are lawyers. Pam Bondi was not going to answer any questioning. Like, even if she had been cross examined properly, like you said, to push her on the 86 page indictment, that that woman would respond, you know, well, the dow is at $50,000 or whatever. The level of disrespect for the importance of this story was so apparent. And I just, I felt like at a certain point that people should get their grandstanding in because this woman, whether it was a directive from on high or just that she actually is that soulless, had no intention of actually having a conversation about the contents of the Epstein files or how the DOJ had handled it.

[Erin Parnas]

Well, I think, yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I think some members did a good job at that. Like Crockett at the end, Jasmine Crockett, I thought her, she just spoke for five minutes and typically I would say like, no, you should ask her some questions. But she wasn't answering anything. You were the last person. And she pretty much read her to filth. Like, I fully was like, okay, great, good work, Congresswoman. I think for me, looking at Pam Bondi and I've seen Pam Bondi in action for a long time. I'm from Florida. She was my Attorney General growing up for eight years or so. She seemed really rattled up there. Like, I don't.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I thought so too.

[Erin Parnas]

I did not. She didn't come across as super composed or super measured. The burn book idea, really, to me, I get why she did it, but it didn't really land much. And to me, I think she's on the hot seat. Intern. I think that Trump is putting pressure on the doj, saying, why are we still talking about Epstein two weeks after you release the files? They can't get away from this story, no matter what they're trying to do. And so now you're in a situation where it's like you have a kind of a lame duck AG up there in a way. But also, I was kind of surprised and I would like to get your take on this. No one asked about the six Democratic lawmakers who were almost indicted. Like, to me, that was kind of crazy, right? Like, you don't even bring that up at all. Like, Steve Cohen asked about Memphis and National Guard deployment or ICE deployment there. But nothing about the fact that you almost indicted six lawmakers for seditious conspiracy.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Or how often a grand jury, who typically will indict a ham sandwich, was not interested in your indictments. And from what I've read, Judge Pirro, I'm, like, blanking on her title because she's just like Janine to me, brought in two prosecutors from Westchester county that she used to work with to do this, which screams that there were probably a bunch of career folks who were not interested in bringing this forward. But it definitely is a big story. And I didn't connect those dots that that should have been at least a conversation when you have the attorney general in front of you as it continues with the vindictive streak of this administration and that, frankly, the courts are the only way that we're getting any legitimate pushback about them. So I like that point, and I agree about Bondi being rattled. There were a few times where she actually, like, paused and you could see her mind working like, what level of insane should I go now? And then the way that her voice was unleashed and I've heard her give a lot of interviews at this point. I mean, she wasn't my ag, but I've consumed a lot of Pam Bondi, and she's usually pretty authoritative.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Like, I don't like what she's saying, but there was a reason that there were Democrats that voted to confirm her. Right. Like, this is a woman who has shown herself to be of substance in the past. Don't attack me in the comments. I get it. I even said there was things that Pete Hegseth could bring to the job. Not that I said that he should be confirmed, but she seemed to genuinely not know what direction to go in. And I'm curious about this because I've been asking some people that I've talked to about, like, why wouldn't the DOJ just throw some indictments out there? No one's super close to Trump. Right. But now you have those six co conspirators. Right? The ones whose names were redacted and then Thomas Massie went crazy and he got the redactions out there. Or like, pick any. I mean, there are a bunch of people in these files. You know, globally speaking, you're indicting Russians for the Mueller report. Like just indict some people that don't really matter, that don't even have Donald Trump's phone number to at least say we're taking action. And you can throw that back in people's faces because the frustration at this point is you're doing absolutely nothing. Yeah, we're not even saying about Donald Trump or Howard Ludnick, who I'm not accusing of doing anything with underage women. But like, there are really bad dudes in these files and you could get a win with your base because the MAGA base who've been talking about the Epstein files for years, they're still really mad and they're getting madder. Like people like Tim Pool.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah. I mean, I also think something that, I mean, you don't have to indict people for sex trafficking or anything related to underage girls or women or any of that. There are easy ways to indict people in these files for money laundering, for tax evasion. Right. Like financial related crimes. Because there's a whole host of so much money moving one way or the other. And so that's.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Go after the banks.

[Erin Parnas]

Go after the banks.

[Jessica Tarlev]

That's popular with everybody.

[Erin Parnas]

Go after the banks. I mean, and also, like Les Wexner is low hanging fruit, in my opinion. Like that. That is.

[Jessica Tarlev]

He'll be in to testify, right?

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, actually next week he's gonna be testifying, but he's gonna plead the Fifth. He has no, nothing, no reason not to. It's not a criminal proceeding by any means. It's not a grand jury proceeding. They had enough to label him a co conspirator internally. They did. And if they have enough to do that, they have enough to secure an indictment, in my opinion, if they want to. And the fact that they haven't kind of says everything you need to know about this Justice Department. And it's not just this Justice Department. I think four Justice Departments, every Justice Department since Bush. Every single one.

[Jessica Tarlev]

So, yeah, I mean, I think it's A little bit different and I want to see Alex Acosta again. But this is like to me a political layup in that it is bipartisan how much inappropriate behavior there has been and voters are willing to take off their team jerseys about this. Yeah, in general there are some who are dug in, are like, well, the Clintons and blah, blah. I'm like, I don't care, like let them defend themselves. I think it's absurd that Hillary is getting hauled in for any of this.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, well, she's labeled in the Faust twice and indirectly it wasn't.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I think she last saw him in the 90s, but anyway, not new for her to be blamed for things going on in her husband's life, but it's wildly frustrating. So Epstein's not the only topic that's defining Republicans at this point. After more than a year of dodging tariffs, House Republicans defied Trump in two back to back votes with three Republicans blocking a procedural shield and six joining Democrats to roll back tariffs on Canada, prompting Trump to primary each of them on true social, which is his favorite move. This is mostly symbolic, Aaron, but why do you think it's actually happening at this point? I mean, they've been talking a big tariff game for a while, but it's the first time that we've seen an actual vote on it.

[Erin Parnas]

Well, they want to stay employed. I mean, that's why. Right. Like I think the six Republicans who broke from Trump, other than Don Bacon, who's not running for reelection anymore, I mean, a lot of these are frontliners. Like Kevin Kiley is a frontliner, Brian Fitzpatrick a frontliner. They want to kind of go on record ahead of November to say, listen, I never supported some of the crazier stuff coming out of this administration when I could vote against tariffs. I did vote against tariffs. I don't think Trump is actually going to primary someone in a 50, 50 district. I mean, I don't think he's crazy. He'll say it, but I don't think he'll do it. I don't know that he'll offer his full throated support for Brian Fitzpatrick, but I also don't know that Fitzpatrick wants.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I don't think that helps Brian Fitzpatrick. I'm sure he does not want him anywhere near him.

[Erin Parnas]

Exactly. So I think that's why it's happening now. It is largely symbolic. I was actually surprised that more Republicans didn't break from Trump on these tariffs because it kind of, in my opinion, if I was Johnson and Trump, like, we know tariffs are unpopular, give them the ability to vote against them. They're never going to override this veto because you're never going to get two thirds, as we've seen over the past year, but give them some, some leeway to vote against tariffs. That didn't happen. So, I mean, I think that's why it's happening now, though, is because we're nearing the midterm elections and Trump's agenda is historically unpopular. Right now, his approval rating's not above 40% in most polls. Like, I mean, it's, it's just bad all around. So any way that they can get away from him is they'll, they'll take it.

[Jessica Tarlev]

His approval rating so low that Gallup had to stop polling approval ratings.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, I wonder why.

[Jessica Tarlev]

That's a whole other discussion. No, I mean, it is very expensive to do it, but I cannot get it out of my head that it has to be related to watching what happened to Ann Selzer from the Des Moines Register with her presidential poll. I agree with you on the tariffs. It seems like a layup, especially when you look at the data on this tax foundation. Calculated $1,000 per average family last year because of the tariff. This year it's going to go up to $1300. But we did have a better than expected jobs report, so it was kind of dueling days on this. So there was the massive revision from 2025 that. Yeah, I think only like 181,000 jobs were added over the course of the entire year, which is dismal beyond imagination. And then the report was, what was it, like 166,000 or something like that?

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, something like that.

[Jessica Tarlev]

It could end up being revised down. It was mostly due to health care jobs, which has been consistently the sector that's hiring a lot. But do you think that this is all part of the plan and, like, whatever Kevin Hassan and Peter Navarro have been talking about, like, they're really cooking with gas. It's just we needed to get into 2026 for it to happen.

[Erin Parnas]

Well, my question is, I was told that I shouldn't believe the bad job numbers over the past several months. So do I have to believe the good ones now? I'm just, I don't, I don't know what to believe and what not to believe when you're telling me half the time it's not Trump's economy, it's Biden's economy, and it's bad numbers that were cooked a liberal activist, and now you have good job numbers coming out, which these job numbers aren't Even that great.

[Jessica Tarlev]

No, I'm sorry, yeah. Let's be clear. So an average month of Biden was about 350,000 jobs.

[Erin Parnas]

Right.

[Jessica Tarlev]

It's just like, it's just not zero or negative. Which. It's the participation trophy of the jobs number.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah. Listen, I've never seen a. I think this is actually pretty historic. It's the first time in history that a FIFA prize winner also won this participation trophy as well. So this is very new.

[Jessica Tarlev]

And a Nobel winner by extension.

[Erin Parnas]

By extension, yeah. And I think, I think he got the best coal miner award this week too, actually, in the White House. So he's getting a lot of awards, which. Good for him.

[Jessica Tarlev]

More than my 4 year old.

[Erin Parnas]

I mean. Yeah. I don't know where this economy is going to go. I really don't. I think that the writing's on the wall for the White House in the sense they know that if the economy's kind of in the dumpster in November, it's not going to be good for them. So they're going to try to figure out a way to turn this around before the midterms. In a way. Prices are still high, wages are still stagnant. Right. Like, yes, we had some decent job growth in one month, but ultimately you ask the average American, can you get a new job? And the answer is no. You have very few openings and thousands of applicants for each opening. So ultimately the dow can hit 50,000 all they want and they can say they're adding all these numbers all they want, but if the average American isn't experiencing support and help in the job market, then it's all for not, as.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I always say, learn from the Democrats mistakes. Because we went out there talking about our great GDP growth and our jobs numbers and our, you know, fastest recovery in the G7, and nobody cared and went out and voted for Trump. So.

[Erin Parnas]

Because who knows what GDP stands for? I barely know what that stands for. Right.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Like, like you want me to tell you or.

[Erin Parnas]

No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just, I'm just saying that, like.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, I got it. I thought, I thought we were being funny with each other. Okay, let's take a quick break. Stay with us. Megan Rapinoe here. This week on A Touch More, the one and only Flaje Johnson joins us to talk about leveling up for the wnba, managing nil money and how she's nurturing her music career. We're also taking a closer look at why participation in girls sports is declining. Surprising, we know. And we're giving some love to Valentine's Day and what it's like dating a pro athlete and who's the best athlete couple of all time. Check out the latest episode of A Touch More wherever you get your podcasts and on YouTube. Hi everyone, this is Kara Swisher. And this week on my podcast on with Kara Swisher, I'm interviewing defense attorney Abby Lowell.

[Erin Parnas]

Last year, he left one of the.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Country'S premier law firms and went independent so he could defend clients targeted by the Trump administration.

[Erin Parnas]

People like Don Lemon, Federal Reserve Governor.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Lisa Cook, and New York Attorney General Letitia James. Here's a snippet from our conversation.

[Erin Parnas]

It's not random, it's not ad hoc, and it's not an outlier that their.

[Jessica Tarlev]

First attack after they had already neutered.

[Erin Parnas]

The Congress and they had politicized the.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Courts, was to go after the lawyers.

[Erin Parnas]

And to go after the journalists. The full interview is out now and you can find it anywhere you listen.

[Jessica Tarlev]

To podcasts and of course on YouTube. Be sure to follow on with Kara.

[Erin Parnas]

Swisher for great conversations like this.

[Jessica Tarlev]

This week on Net Worth and Chill, we're joined by Victoria Garrick Brown, former Division 1 athlete turned body positivity advocate and entrepreneur who's dismantling the lies we've been sold about our worth. From battling eating disorders as a student athlete to building a platform that's reached millions of Victoria's journey as a masterclass in turning personal pain into purpose and profit. She opens up about the real financial cost of chasing beauty standards, why the skinny girl industrial complex is designed to keep us broke and insecure, and how she's built a business around authentic self worth without selling out her values. We dive deep into the economics of body image, the influencer money game, and what it actually costs to love yourself in a world that profits from your insecurities. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com YourRichBFF welcome back. On Thursday, Tom Homan declared the end of immigration enforcement in Minneapolis.

[Erin Parnas]

I have proposed and President Trump has concurred that this surge operation conclude we.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Have a lot of work to do.

[Erin Parnas]

Across this country to remove public safety risk who shouldn't even be in this country, and to deliver on President Trump's promise for strong border security, mass deportation. Law enforcement officers drawing down from this surge operation will either return to the duty station or be signed elsewhere to achieve just that. ICE is a legitimate federal law enforcement agency. We're not out scouring the streets to disappear people or deny people their civil.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Rights or due process.

[Erin Parnas]

We're going to force the immigration law. We're going to have a mass deportation. President Trump promised that, and we're committed to that.

[Jessica Tarlev]

That was fast. Right? It was just, what, two weeks ago that Homan showed up. Then last week we had the scaling down of the 700 and now the surge is over. Were you surprised? I was surprised that it was this quick.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, me too. I mean, what did they always say? They say Jessica Tarlov is always right.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I mean, you just, like, literally no one says that.

[Erin Parnas]

No one says that, but okay, Jessica Tarlov is sometimes right.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Nail day.

[Erin Parnas]

You did say Tom Homan was going to be brought in and they were going to bring some normalcy and potentially do this drawdown. So you kind of were talking about it. I mean, I'm kind of still in the I'll believe it when I see it mode. Yeah, right. Like, it's going to take some time for them to move out. And he did say at some point that there was still going to be some presence on the ground, even though it's going to be much smaller.

[Jessica Tarlev]

But they're there. Unless you are for no ICE enforcement at all. Right. Like the hardcore abolish ICE people who don't even think that the people who are here illegally. Yes. But have committed crimes in the US and are eligible for pickup and deportation back to their own countries shouldn't be here. ICE is going to exist. There were, I think, 150 agents in Minneapolis before the surge, which went up to 3,000. But, you know, when he says it's a legitimate law enforcement force, like so says government documents, and they are funded through 2029, no matter what people want to believe. That's the, that's the reality.

[Erin Parnas]

It is. But there's going to be a government shutdown for a little while.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Oh, you think that?

[Erin Parnas]

100%. 100, okay. I think it's going to last through Trump's State of the Union. I think it's going to be a prolonged shutdown. And I think that it's worth a prolonged shutdown because I don't think that any new money should be going to ICE in this time, even if they're drawing down forces in Minneapolis. Like, I get that it's funded through 2029, but for me, I didn't. I never liked the moniker abolish ice. I actually preferred Abolish Trump's ice. Just this version of the department in the sense that, like, I don't think this version of the department should exist. I think that violent criminals who are here illegally should not be here. But your average, everyday undocumented immigrant who is here contributing to society should be here if they want to be. There should be a pathway to citizenship. I can go on my soapbox all day, but I think that we'll see what happens in Minneapolis. I just, I worry that they're going to draw down in Minneapolis. And then what? We're going to go to Springfield, Ohio, Search somewhere else? We're going to go to Philly. Where are we going to go next? Or are we just going to put a pause on this, put a pin on immigration until December, until after the midterms so people forget about it a little more? What's going to happen next?

[Jessica Tarlev]

Well, that would be smart of them since, you know, Donald Trump took his most popular issue and flushed it down the toilet. With all of this, I don't think Stephen Miller will be able to survive waiting that long. But if Susie Wiles has any control, I'm sure that she's saying we can't afford to do this. A la Susan Collins was going to get a surge of ICE to Maine. There were a few hundred that showed up. And then she was like, no, no, DH Secretary, no. And please get them out of here. There was also. So Todd Lyons, the acting ICE director, he was in a congressional hearing then he was with the Senate. And something that he said, well, he said a bunch of interesting things. I think he's very good in these hearings. I called him like a cool Cucumber on the 5. I don't agree with a lot of what he's saying, but he has the demeanor of someone that you would expect to be in that job. And Alyssa Slotkin, Michigan senator, was pushing him about ICE to polling places. Do you believe that ICE has the authority to be deployed to US Polling places around the country?

[Erin Parnas]

So, ma', am, we're civil, obviously. We do civil enforcement and criminal law enforcement. There's no reason for us to deploy to a polling facility. Homeland Security investigations, we do investigate voter fraud, which we've had made several arrests, most recently high profile one in Massachusetts. I got second man. There's no reason to use ice.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Officers in debt. Right. Well, I hope that in the privacy of that meeting, when that comes down and the president feels like he's going to lose the midterm elections, that you don't buckle.

[Erin Parnas]

And if, like the president calls, who knows what will happen, essentially.

[Jessica Tarlev]

All right, so election's still in danger, but on the record that I should not be monitoring the polling places in the way that Trump wants.

[Erin Parnas]

Sorry.

[Jessica Tarlev]

He basically admitted that there are people who are getting like 42 days of training and are out there. I mean, a lot of the things that Democrats had been saying that are going on, he acknowledged. So you think we're heading to this shutdown? Do you think there's any give on the list of demands the Democrats put out there that Republicans will go for? Or it's full stalemate. They're not going to go for anything.

[Erin Parnas]

Full stalemate. They're not going for anything. I mean, I don't know. I think the latest reporting was that they're going home, they're going to vote, the bills are going to fail, and then they're going to go home for a week. So, like shut down all about, guaranteed for a week and then we'll see how long it goes. But if I'm Democrats, shut it down until the end of the Trump administration, shut it down for as long as you want. I am not funding ICE and DHS in its current form. And you hold out as long as you need to until they cave. Because you don't do what you did last time 50 days later, just cave. After 50 days, you shut this down.

[Jessica Tarlev]

How will life function if you shut it down until December?

[Erin Parnas]

Well, it's only one agency.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I know, but DHS also covers fema, they cover the gsa.

[Erin Parnas]

I hear you, but I mean, we're at, we're at the point where the Democrats have all of the leverage for the first time, I really think in a long time, they have all of the leverage. You're not dealing with a full government shutdown. You're dealing with an issue where you have two thirds of the country on your side. Use it. Use the leverage that you have and force at least Donald Trump to give a State of the Union during government shutdown. Right? For some of these things to happen and then, and then we'll see. I mean, yes, it is a shitty position to be in, but ultimately, what are you going to do? You're just going to give them what they want and then what? And then continue to do this for three years and then just talk a big game and not actually act on it? Democrats have been saying they're not going to vote, they're not going to vote, they're not going to vote. If they turn around and vote, they're going to lose a lot of support.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I'm sure they're having panic about that. It's always like you get to the top of the mountain, right, and you're like, oh, this is what it feels like. And then you're like, I'm going to walk myself down the other side. Because John Fetterman told us, too, they.

[Erin Parnas]

May lose their favorite raging moderate at some point.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Like, at this point, I'm in and I'm out. You know, I'm like, always supportive, but also always critical based on the text messages I get. Well, why'd you have to say that? I'm like, well, because I thought it was shitty. I. I want to talk about RFK for a second. So his vaccine program, you see, he.

[Erin Parnas]

Said he was snorting cocaine off a toilet seat the other day.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I did see that. Anyway, so the vaccine stuff is not going well for him. So he's going out on this Eat Real Food tour. And I have always been very concerned about this aspect of the platform, and this was going on when he was running in the Democratic primary, too, that his positions on things like food dyes and getting healthy and redoing the food pyramid and talking about, you know, big food companies and processing and like, all the stuff having to do with taking care of your body, not the medicine part, because that he's totally crazy on. We just, like, we don't message well on it. Biden banned a few food dyes, Never talked about it. Right. Like, if you ask the average Maha mom, she has no idea that Biden cared about yellow dye. So what do you make of him being out there in this respect? And do you think that Democrats have a real problem with the Maha voters?

[Erin Parnas]

No, because I don't really think people care or even know that he's out there doing this. Like, I really don't. I mean, yes, Democrats could have messaged it better, but I don't think they're messaging it that well either right now. Like, this new food pyramid, like, I don't, like, it's kind of fallen off the planet. The dies, great. I mean, that's a bipartisan issue, but no one's really talking about the dies because the. The issue that Democrats have is that they don't know how to message their wins. The issue Republicans have is that they muddle their messaging with their wins. So, like, he talks about the die bans and then goes in and then.

[Jessica Tarlev]

He'S like, don't have Tylenol.

[Erin Parnas]

Right. And then. Or don't horse nurse cocaine or snorts cocaine or whatever this is. So it's like the stuff that he wants. And it's same thing with Trump. With Trump, the stuff that they want publicly doesn't actually get there because all the viral clips are of the BS that they spew and so I don't. I don't know how much this is actually reaching the average maha voter. Or the average voter, anyway.

[Jessica Tarlev]

All right. Did you see that Nancy Pelosi is backing Jack Schlossberg in the. In the New York 12 race? What do you think about that?

[Erin Parnas]

I. It's fascinating, right?

[Jessica Tarlev]

That woman is loyal.

[Erin Parnas]

She is. I like a lot of the people running in that race. I don't know.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Well, because literally everybody in New York City is running in that race.

[Erin Parnas]

Are you running?

[Jessica Tarlev]

Is that me? No, I'm not, but I'm interested in the race. No, I would be a terrible candidate.

[Erin Parnas]

The oppo file is ready.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I mean, our text messages.

[Erin Parnas]

No, I mean, I think Pelosi's. I'm curious to see how much her endorsement actually matters.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Right.

[Erin Parnas]

That is what I'm curious about. We'll see. But she's a prolific fundraiser. But I also don't know that he needs it.

[Jessica Tarlev]

No, I mean, it's interesting. Obviously, they had a big family tragedy again with his sister Tatiana passing away, and so he hasn't been as visible. But it'll be very interesting to see how seriously he takes this. I wonder if Pelosi had a conversation with him that was like, is this real or is this a thing that you're going to do for a little bit and then you're going to go back to Vanity Fair and tiktoking from the laundry room in your building? My friend lives in the building and says he sees him in the laundry room and he'll be like, you want to be in the video? And he's like, no, just want to do the laundry.

[Erin Parnas]

Fascinating.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah. Did you see, I'm now looping back to Epstein World, that Queen Elizabeth reportedly gave then Prince Andrew $7 million to settle with Virginia Giuffre and avoid a court fight over her sex abuse allegations?

[Erin Parnas]

I did not see that.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Oh, well, here I am breaking the news to Aaron Parnas myself. You can do a video on this. I mean, it's not much background information for you to respond to, but does that surprise you?

[Erin Parnas]

I don't know that it surprises me. I think the Royal Family is very much like incubators and want to protect their own as much as they can, but at this point, I mean, you can't protect Andrew.

[Jessica Tarlev]

No.

[Erin Parnas]

I mean, he's all up in these files, and he lied. He lied about Virginia Giuffre and his relationship with her. So the truth is slowly coming out.

[Jessica Tarlev]

So I have two thoughts about this. One, this feels very bad for the Monarchy, like, way worse than Prince Andrew actually existing. Because you had this image of everybody else within the royal family being on solid moral ground when it came to this. Like, when they found out, they were like, you don't get your title anymore. You don't get to live here anymore. Go off in the countryside and figure your way out. And I have felt like Prince Charles, a king now, Your Excellency. Like, it must be so hard to have to turn on your brother like that. But he's been so by the book and saying, you know, investigate to the full extent of the law, et cetera. And then you see something like this, and it feels like such a stain on the monarchy. I mean, obviously Queen Elizabeth is not around anymore to defend what happened, but it did surprise me. It didn't. It didn't feel like a move that she would have made.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah, I mean, I get it. I don't know. I'm gonna go read up on it once we finish this recording and let you know more soon.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Okay. Last thing I wanted to ask you about the Ukrainian skeleton racer who was disqualified from the Winter Olympics after refusing to remove a helmet honoring 24 of the 500 plus Ukrainian athletes killed in the war. The violation of the IOC's rules on political statements. I was really bummed, but I always am bummed when stuff like this happens, especially when it's so black and white.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

And it doesn't seem like a political statement to honor people who have been killed. But do you think it's a bad move for the Olympics to legislate on something like this?

[Erin Parnas]

Well, I, I just, I. I don't get how the Olympics can say that this is a bad political statement or whatnot. When they banned Russia from competing, is that not the same thing? Like, the Olympics did that, Right? Like, they banned Russia, they said that you can't compete under a Russian flag. And so when a Ukrainian wants to support those who died at the hands of the Russian government, like, come on, Come on, ioc.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Come on. All right. What are you raging about?

[Erin Parnas]

It's not like super raging about. So I don't get, like, super hate for this, but, like, I hate the fact that the Amtrak schedule from D.C. to New York, because I'm going this weekend, does not run after, like 11:00pm or 10:00pm Like, I want to take a late night train back and I have to stay the night now.

[Jessica Tarlev]

In New York?

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Oh, well, I'm not there. We could have hung out otherwise.

[Erin Parnas]

Yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

But also, no one wants to be on, like, a two, three hour train ride in the middle of the night. Except you.

[Erin Parnas]

Probably me. I do.

[Jessica Tarlev]

It would be you alone on the train back.

[Erin Parnas]

And also. Or a plane ride. DCA has weird airport restrictions, so nothing can land after 10pm because of the rich people in Georgetown, which is annoying.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Maybe it'll be different when it's Trump International.

[Erin Parnas]

Tax the rich.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Okay, what should we calm down about?

[Erin Parnas]

Not much.

[Jessica Tarlev]

That's pretty bad. Okay.

[Erin Parnas]

All right.

[Jessica Tarlev]

It was great to see you. I'll see you next week.

[Erin Parnas]

See you next week.