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- [00:01]
Narrator
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- [00:30]
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- [01:02]
Jessica Tarlov
Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlov and it's Friday, so Aaron Parnas, I have in my script Gen Z sensation. How do you feel about that?
- [01:10]
Aaron Parnas
No abort mission. Let's try it.
- [01:12]
Jessica Tarlov
Oh, prolific sub stacker.
- [01:14]
Aaron Parnas
There we go. We're back.
- [01:16]
Jessica Tarlov
Aaron, how has your week been?
- [01:18]
Aaron Parnas
Long, long, Chaotic, Crazy long long.
- [01:22]
Jessica Tarlov
Aren't we supposed to be able to, like, at the beginning of the year, like, stop drinking and go to the gym? And I feel like I'm drinking. Actually. Someone told me. Oh, not just someone, my husband. Sorry. A special someone. Was like someone a friend of ours said, oh, you know, how has motherhood change you? And he just from another room is like, she drinks more.
- [01:42]
Aaron Parnas
How has the Trump administration changed you? He drinks more.
- [01:45]
Jessica Tarlov
Literally. My liver is suffering because of this man. All right, in today's episode, we're going to talk about how ICE could be reformed, whether rogue ICE agents will ever face accountability and what this all means for Kristi Noem. Want to do some foreign policy too? Talking about the Iran crisis and whatever is going on with Greenland. And two weeks into his term, we'll check in on the Mamdani administration. So let's start with Minneapolis. The protests, I don't know, I don't even say they're wildly out of control because that would imply that this is all the protesters fault. The clashes have been dominating everyone's social media feeds and the news. Tons of tragedy. Trump Admin says the agent that killed Renee, Nicole Good, acted in self defense. He's blocked Minnesota's access to evidence and sent hundreds more federal officers into the city, which led to another shooting on Wednesday night. Local Prosecutors say charges aren't impossible, but the legal and political barriers are very steep, you know, given the video evidence, which thankfully there is plenty of it. And I like that the folks in Minnesota are encouraging everyone to record everything that's going on. But how realistic is it, do you think that ICE agents in these situations ever face charges?
- [02:50]
Aaron Parnas
Almost never. And I think actually, I don't know if you saw this, but in New York, Governor Hochul is actually pushing for legislation to allow citizens in ICE encounters to civilly sue ICE agents. Because even getting a civil lawsuit right now against an ICE agent, that in one of these situations is very difficult given immunity related issues. They don't have absolute immunity, but they have qualified immunity. And I think that's another argument that a lot of legal experts have that, I mean, at this point, like we need to take a look at the qualified immunity doctrine we should have for a long time. And it's actually funny. Clarence Thomas himself, one of the most conservative justice on the Supreme Court, is not a fan of qualified immunity. So I think that we may see some movement there. But getting charges against ICE agents right now. Good luck.
- [03:33]
Jessica Tarlov
Yeah, I actually didn't know that about Hokul and that's good. I feel like she has had an incredible search of the year and we'll talk about that a bit more in the Mom Donnie section. She, you know, she's like, Gavin Newsom, challenge accepted. Like, let's go over here in New York, President Hochul.
- [03:47]
Aaron Parnas
I'm kidding.
- [03:47]
Jessica Tarlov
I don't know, maybe.
- [03:49]
Aaron Parnas
But like, you never know.
- [03:50]
Jessica Tarlov
You never know. Donald Trump was reelected to a second term as president. So no, you never know about these things. Going back to what you were saying about, you know, good luck getting actual charges against an ICE officer, I have been so disheartened to see the lack of interest in the federal government in working with local law enforcement, gathering evidence for those on the ground who actually know what's going on there. And a lot of people who are even observers to this, and Brian o', Hara, the police chief in Minneapolis has talked about this. He's like, our cops are there all the time because actually ICE is doing the jobs we're supposed to do. Like ICE actually can't enforce traffic laws or do anything. Like they're literally there to pick up bad hombres and then they're supposed to get out. But they're acting as judge, jury and executioner in some cases in all of this. And the federal government, they're pushing back on this. Harmeet Dillon and the DOJ but there have been multiple stories talking about how prosecutors are quitting or petitioning the federal government, saying, you have to work with local law enforcement to investigate these incidents.
- [04:51]
Aaron Parnas
Oh, 100%. I mean, to me, this is a matter of state and local issue. It's a state and local issue more so than a federal issue. Just because you have a federal agent involved doesn't make it automatically a federal issue. And so even if this Renee Nicole Goods, the person who shot her, Jonathan Ross, were to be charged in state court, removed to federal court, even in federal court, he would be prosecuted under state law. This is a state related issue, and I believe that Minnesota investigators should be leading the way. When I spoke to Attorney General Ellison from Minnesota, he said that they haven't received access to Renee Nicole Good's vehicle to see where the bullet kind of went through the windshield, the gun itself or the shell casings. And then at the same time, they've kind of been stonewalled from every witness interview, every declaration made in the case. They don't have any information. And then Ellison also told me that he thinks or he's heard that the Civil Rights Division has also been sidelined, which is why we've probably seen the mass resignations, the four top officials in civil rights, and then Also now the six prosecutors who have resigned in the U.S. attorney's office in Minnesota. I expect that only to continue. I will say one thing that I've seen a lot of people talk about online in this regard, and I'm curious to hear your thoughts, is when all of the good guys are resigning, who's left, right? Like, if these people are resigning, who's left to enforce the law and to make sure that there's some sense of normalcy to continue? And the truth is, I don't really have an answer for you because it's really a double edged sort of same thing with, like, the riffs earlier this year. Like, great, like, people want to take the offers to leave the federal government, these good federal workers, but then when all the good federal workers leave, who's left?
- [06:29]
Jessica Tarlov
Right? Which is exactly how Rusva wants it, Right? Right. Is like this is our dream scenario, actually, where anyone with a spine or who knows the law is gone and we can just, you know, have our way with the country. But I do, I feel differently than I did in the first Trump administration about, you know, good Republicans and, you know, in quotes, like, sticking it out. Right? And like, making sure that they can limit him or whoever Stephen Miller vote, whoever it is, as much as possible, because, you would be out on an island, first of all. And it seems like very little has been able to get in their way. And people who I think are really making a lot of positive change are folks on the outside that are battling the administration that way, like the Mark Eliases of the world. Right. That are like, I'm going to take you to court every single day.
- [07:20]
Aaron Parnas
Right.
- [07:20]
Jessica Tarlov
And I'm going to continue to win. And it seems like the judiciary, not talking about the doj, I'm talking about, like, judges across the country, say, for the Supreme Court in some very important instances, actually have been holding. Holding the line pretty well.
- [07:34]
Aaron Parnas
Yeah, 100%. And I think that'll be kind of the story of Trump's second term, is how the judiciary really blocked a lot of what he's been trying to do. I think I've been saying it from the beginning, even on this show, is that people need to calm down in the sense that a lot of what he says he's doing, he's not actually doing. His executive orders aren't actually law now. Is he terrorizing communities? Yes. Is ICE being deployed across America? 100%. But at the same time, even the Supreme Court said you can't deploy the National Guard in Illinois, for example. Example. Right. There are still ways that his administration is being kind of constricted. And I think it'll only continue after the midterms, because based on what I'm seeing in polling wise, and if, I mean, if we're where we are today, on November 5th or 6th, whenever the election is, it's going to be a landslide for Democrats, in my opinion. Like, I mean, it's, it's, it's really bad for Republicans right now.
- [08:25]
Jessica Tarlov
Yeah. I saw the latest Gallup polling had Democrats up 8 points on the generic ballot, which is tsunami territory, not wave or ripple. You know, that was on the higher end of things. But, you know, the administration is blaming the media. Right. For the spin about what's going on in Minneapolis. And I don't know if you saw this, but 82% of Americans have watched the video of Officer Ross shooting Renee Goode himself. They're not actually taking a news lens to look at these things. Everyone's doing it for themselves. And that's why you have seen this huge turn against ice. So polling has it about that half of Americans would abolish it if they had their choice. Majority of Americans think that Officer Ross should face criminal charges. A majority think that ICE is not enforcing the law properly. And the big discussion now is, should we abolish ice. And should Democrats be using that motto, I guess, or being out there arguing for it? What's your take?
- [09:23]
Aaron Parnas
I mean, I think abolishing ICE is the moderate position today for Democrats to take. Like, I don't think it's an outlandish thing to say. It's very different from abolish the police because you're not abolishing the police. When you're abolishing ice, you're also not abolishing all immigration enforcement. When you're abolishing ice, you still have Customs and Border Protection, which ensures that the border is protected. Ice, however, is specifically being sent into streets across America to rip apart families and terrorize communities. And so the abolish ICE position, I would expect, is going to become even more mainstream, even more popular, especially among Democrats. And I don't think that it's. I mean, I saw the Searchlight Institute put out their little memo or whatnot, and I saw the memo and I. And I read the memo and I fundamentally disagree with the memo in the sense that the moderate position in a normal administration. Fine, take the moderate position. Say, we don't need to abolish ice, we just need some reforms. Great. But we're not living through normal times right now. And I don't think you ask any American, and they're gonna be like, oh, we're good with, like, incremental change right now and working together. There's really very few people out there who are like, we wanna work together. It is a very divided country, and if Democrats wanna win, it's time to lean into the division.
- [10:38]
Jessica Tarlov
In all honesty, I think that you're probably right. I was discussing this on Wednesday afternoon on the 5, and, you know, I think I have a little bit of a different frame, which might not be the right frame, but I just know, like, what my life will look like if I'm sitting surrounded by four conservatives who can say, in 2020 it was defund the police, and in 2026 it was, you know, abolish ICE. And what happens also to the funding that's allocated? So if Democrats go the appropriations route and they say, basically we're not going to fund dhs, then, you know, what do you do about tsa, for instance, or CBP and things like that? So I think that there needs to be a good plan, I guess, to counter it. And so far I've just heard a lot of, like, get rid of them. Right? Like, they're not doing their job, like you were saying. And I, I totally agree with that. I just want Like, a real good set of proposals. I've floated some that I think makes sense. Like, that, you know, these guys need to be trained more than 47 days. Like, it's cute that that's Donald Trump's presidential lineage number or whatever, but, like, they need the three to five months of training. You can't have warrantless searches. You can't be asking people for their papers. You need to wear body cams. We need to know who. You need a badge number. You can't throw people in unmarked vans. Like, all of these things. And when you say them out loud, you would think that most people would say, like, oh, well, obviously, like, this is America. It shouldn't be going this way. But I was met with such opposition to this idea that people should have to identify themselves and even like, oh, well, protesters are wearing masks. I'm like, how are these two things even comparable in your mind? And I would add that David Shore, who is usually like a voice of research reason within the party from Blue Rose Strategies, also put out his own memo that said what you're saying that abolishing ICE is not a nuts idea. Like, this is not something that makes people think that you're a bunch of looney leftists. It makes people think that you've seen the same videos that they've seen themselves, 100%.
- [12:35]
Aaron Parnas
And I will also say this. I mean, I think that when we talk about funding dhs, I think that is going to be a major moment within the Democratic Party at the end of this month. We funded ICE to such a degree this summer. Right, right. Like, there is so much money that flowed into the coffers of ICE that in my opinion, if you have Democrats willing, I am totally open to another government shutdown as it relates to dhs, specifically, as it relates to dhs. And I think a lot of Democrats would be warming up to that idea over ICE funding because they have more funding than parts of the United States military at this point. They're sending millions of dollars to influencers for wartime recruitment campaigns right now. I mean, this isn't. And here's the thing. I mean, all of the reforms you laid out are great, but even from like, a basic level, let's make sure that ICE has training. There was a recent NBC News report that came out overnight that literally said that ICE is using AI to vet applicants, new applicants, and the AI technology flagged any applicant that had the word officer in their resume or in their cover letter as someone who already had law enforcement officer training. But the truth is, most of Those people are like, where. If you're a compliance officer, for example, you were saying, they said that you had complete training, or if you said you wanted to be an ICE officer, they said you already had necessary training. They're putting people on the streets with not enough training or really any training at this point. And you're seeing what happens.
- [13:58]
Jessica Tarlov
Absolutely. There was also an incredible story of a lefty journalist and activist who applied to come into ice, and she was preliminarily accepted. There was no, like, basic Google search of the fact that her social media is full of, like, fuck ice. And, you know, Donald Trump is an. An authoritarian or whatever. It was like when you're surging 3,000 people at a time, when you're working off of quotas, when you're just trying to satisfy Stephen Miller's fever dreams. Right. Like, you're going to be making a lot of mistakes. And I don't know why, frankly, they would want to be part of this or to support it at this level, except that they want to run a militarized United States of America. That is the only conclusion I'm left to understand.
- [14:43]
Aaron Parnas
Yeah, maybe I'm going to apply to ICE and see if I get in quickly, see if it works.
- [14:48]
Jessica Tarlov
You should do it as an activity, though. I think now they're probably a little more alert now.
- [14:52]
Aaron Parnas
They're going to see my name and be like, no.
- [14:54]
Jessica Tarlov
They're like, run away. Like, this kid's trouble.
- [14:57]
Aaron Parnas
Yeah.
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Jessica Tarlov
All right, let's take a quick break. Stay with us.
- [15:08]
News Reporter
Some of this video coming out of Minneapolis is telling a story about the surge of ICE agents that started last week after Renee Goode was killed.
- [15:17]
Narrator
Another controversial video has emerged of ice. It turns out the people being arrested were US Citizens.
- [15:23]
Protester
These are observers making sure that kids can walk home from school without being taken apart by the horrible Gestapo that we have here. A group of men approached a woman at a bus stop, pulled her aside, and then walked her into a vehicle.
- [15:39]
News Reporter
The polling is also telling a story. Support for ICE is dropping, and more Americans than ever before. 46% told economist YouGov pollsters they want ICE abolished. Meanwhile, the messaging from the White House is that ICE has immunity. So what does that mean for the people, some of them citizens, that ICE agents are dragging out of cars and workplaces and off of streets around Minneapolis? That's on Today. Explained.
- [16:06]
Jake Sullivan
We air every weekday what turns unrest into a revolution and where could it lead?
- [16:12]
John Finer
The big open question is whether this set of protests that are currently underway is the end or the beginning of the End of this third phase of sort of modern governance when it comes to Iran, the end of clerical rule.
- [16:27]
Jake Sullivan
I'm Jake Sullivan.
- [16:29]
John Finer
And I'm John Finer. And we're the hosts of the Long Game, a weekly national security podcast.
- [16:34]
Jake Sullivan
This week, we cover the massive nationwide protests in Iran and the US Response.
- [16:39]
John Finer
The episode's out now. Search for and follow the Long Game wherever you get your podcasts.
- [16:46]
Version History Host
For most of the history of television, if you missed a show, you just missed it. It was over, it was gone. But then this little company called TiVo came along and gave people superpowers. You could pause live television, you could rewind it, you could save it and watch it later. It was incredible. And the people who had it could not stop talking about it. This week on Version History, a new chat show about old technology, we talk about the history of TiVo and how it is that a company whose products actually no one ever really had or used became one of the most iconic stories in tech. All that on Version History, wherever you get podcasts.
- [17:26]
Jessica Tarlov
Welcome back. I want to quickly touch on what's going on with Iran. Wednesday night, it seemed like maybe there was going to be some American action. Iran closed its airspace. What do you think the odds are at this point that there is American intervention over there?
- [17:42]
Aaron Parnas
Pretty high. Still? I really do. I mean, I think this is Trump saying kind of. And he said the same thing last time. Oh, Iran's not killing any protesters.
- [17:49]
Jessica Tarlov
Right before he did Fordo.
- [17:51]
Aaron Parnas
Right. Right before he did Fordo. And I don't know if you saw the Iranian foreign minister's interview the other day, but he said no executions on Wednesday, no executions on Thursday. I don't know what Friday holds. That's literally what he said. And so I think that. But I'm gonna be honest with you. If the United States does not get involved, I don't know how these protests continue at this point. I don't know, because I think based on what we're seeing on the ground, thousands of people being killed by the Iranian regime every, like, over the past couple weeks. I don't know how protesters come out and say, I can continue doing this with fear of my life. I don't know. It's a very scary situation. I know people living in Iran right now, and they're terrified, so. And I also don't know what US Intervention looks like, whether it would even work. Right.
- [18:35]
Jessica Tarlov
I wish they would tell us. I understand you can't tell us everything. I do believe in that Democrat or Republican administration, but, like, give us a hint of what help is on the way actually means because we've seen help is on the way before and that story did not end well for us and for a lot of people in the Middle East.
- [18:56]
Aaron Parnas
Yeah, I don't know what that looks like. So we'll see.
- [18:58]
Jessica Tarlov
Okay. Greenland, are we taking it?
- [19:00]
Aaron Parnas
Well, the European Union has planted a flag in Greenland over the past 24 hours. European troops are currently on the ground in Greenland. Do I think we're taking it? 50. 50. Honestly, I don't know.
- [19:10]
Jessica Tarlov
Really?
- [19:11]
Aaron Parnas
Yeah.
- [19:12]
Jessica Tarlov
That high? Because I, I'm pretty 75. 25. I do think that they'll do a deal and they'll have to. Which they would have done anyway. I just hate the ritual humiliation of all of this. Like, the Danes and the Greenlanders have always been open to basically doing whatever the United States wants, except becoming the 51st state or whatever his fantasy is.
- [19:36]
Aaron Parnas
We already have a military base there. Right. Like, I'm sure if we said I think and build it up, I think you're right. I think what we'll see is like some type of deal in which the United States has like de facto military control over Greenland, whatever that looks like.
- [19:48]
Jessica Tarlov
Right. And Trump can come out and talk about it and be like, here's my gold plated cell phone from Tim Cook. Here is.
- [19:54]
Aaron Parnas
Honestly, my Greenland plaque put Trump on a dog sled at this point, like.
- [19:59]
Jessica Tarlov
Physically or his face?
- [20:01]
Aaron Parnas
Physically.
- [20:02]
Jessica Tarlov
Okay, quickly, I. What are your thoughts on early mom Donnie days? I have thought this is a pretty effective first couple of weeks. You know, funding of universal pre K. Your applications are already Open for your 2 and 3 year olds to be able to do that. Kathy Hochul, big assist going back to President Hochul. Also the moves to cut red tape when it comes to getting small businesses to be able to open and thrive. And also for building more housing, which has been a huge issue with the left wing of the Democratic Party, that there's been so much resistance to cutting red tape when it comes to building more housing and doing it quickly. So what are your thoughts?
- [20:45]
Aaron Parnas
I mean, I give it an A rating at this point. I mean, he's avoided, he's avoided all controversy. Right. Not a single piece of controversy really has come out that's plagued the administration. Eric Adams is opening up a meme coin and he's. And he's actually doing stuff. I mean, even if these are just announcements, right, like announcements of funding or announcements of housing building, whatever it is, they're announcements and he's actually taking action. So I give him an A at this point. But it's been only two weeks, so we'll see what happens.
- [21:16]
Jessica Tarlov
I know it's been an impressive two weeks for me as someone who, you know, was excited about certain proposals, definitely the universal childcare and expanding universal pre k. But to see him kind of buckingham some more left wing forces, I guess I would be against some of these things as it comes to the restrictions or the regulations. I should say I've been heartened by all of that. And also, I don't know if you've seen any of the footage of him just walking around the city, but people are going bananas for him. He's like Mick Jagger, Madonna, McDonney. I don't know, whatever. I can't come up with a good nickname for it, but, like, people love him.
- [21:52]
Aaron Parnas
Ask Trump. He'll probably come up with a nickname soon.
- [21:54]
Jessica Tarlov
Oh, my God. And you saw that. They're Texans.
- [21:56]
Aaron Parnas
They're Texans.
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Jessica Tarlov
I think that's their besties. Can't even. I really. I'm sure Trump will show them to us eventually. Like that huge font. He'll be like, this is my boy, Zoran. Very handsome. All right, Aaron, it was great to see you. I'll see you next Friday.
- [22:12]
Aaron Parnas
See you next Friday.
- [22:23]
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