Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov

Episode: Is it Time to Abolish ICE?
Date: January 16, 2026
Host: Jessica Tarlov
Guest: Aaron Parnas (Substack writer, legal analyst)

Note: This episode focuses on ICE reform/abolishment, accountability for misconduct, emerging centrist perspectives, and the political and social climate around enforcement agencies in the U.S. There are also brief discussions of foreign policy (Iran, Greenland) and the early days of the Mamdani mayoral administration in NYC.

Episode Overview

This week's episode tackles whether it's time to abolish the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency amidst escalating controversy over recent incidents, including the police shooting of Renee Nicole Goode in Minneapolis. Jessica Tarlov and Aaron Parnas offer a centrist lens on the legal, political, and moral implications of ICE’s operations, the doctrine of qualified immunity, and whether calls for abolition have become the moderate stance for Democrats. The episode also briefly checks in on U.S. responses to protests in Iran, geopolitical gamesmanship in Greenland, and the performance of the fledgling Mamdani administration in New York City.

Major Segment Summaries & Key Discussion Points

1. Minneapolis ICE Protests and Federal Accountability

Starts: 01:44

• Recent Incident:
  The shooting of Renee Nicole Goode by an ICE agent in Minneapolis has sparked massive protests and increased federal intervention ([01:44]).
• Federal vs. Local Tension:
  The Trump administration has blocked Minnesota’s access to key evidence and sent more federal officers, intensifying the conflict and leading to additional incidents ([01:44]-[02:50]).
• Lack of Accountability:
  Aaron emphasizes that ICE agents "almost never" face criminal charges for controversial actions due to qualified immunity ([02:50]).
  • Legislators like NY Gov. Kathy Hochul are pushing new laws to allow civil suits against ICE agents ([02:50]).
  • Clarence Thomas, a conservative Supreme Court justice, is even cited as a critic of qualified immunity.
• Federal Government Noncooperation:
  Jessica voices frustration over the federal government's reluctance to work with local authorities:**
  “I have been so disheartened to see the lack of interest in the federal government in working with local law enforcement, gathering evidence…” – Jessica ([03:48])
• State vs. Federal Jurisdiction:
  Aaron reinforces that local prosecutors and investigators should take the lead despite federal involvement ([04:50]).
  • Barriers include denial of evidence access, stonewalling of witness interviews, and internal resignations among top civil rights officials ([04:50]).

Notable Quote

• “Getting charges against ICE agents right now. Good luck.”
  – Aaron Parnas ([02:50])

• "When all of the good guys are resigning, who's left, right? ...it's really a double edged sword..."
  – Aaron Parnas ([05:45])

2. Qualified Immunity and Institutional Hollowing

Starts: 05:45

• Qualified immunity continues to protect ICE agents from prosecution or civil suits in many circumstances ([02:50], [05:45]).

• Mass resignations among civil rights officials and prosecutors raise fears of institutional decay:

  • "If these people are resigning, who's left to enforce the law and to make sure that there's some sense of normalcy to continue?" - Aaron ([05:45])
  • Jessica notes: this may be exactly the scenario desired by hardliners: "anyone with a spine or who knows the law is gone and we can just... have our way with the country" ([06:28]).

• The importance of outside legal activism is emphasized, with reference to attorneys like Marc Elias keeping the administration in check through the courts ([06:28]-[07:20]).

Notable Quote

• “I feel differently than I did in the first Trump administration about, you know, 'good Republicans' sticking it out... I think people who are really making a lot of positive change are folks on the outside battling the administration that way.”
  – Jessica Tarlov ([06:28])

3. The Judiciary’s Role & 2026 Election Cycle

Starts: 07:19

• Aaron sees the judiciary as a key check on potential excesses of the executive, despite prominent exceptions ("even the Supreme Court said you can't deploy the National Guard in Illinois, for example" [07:34]).
• He predicts a likely Democratic landslide in the upcoming midterms based on polling trends ([07:34]-[08:24]).
• Jessica references Gallup polling: “Democrats up 8 points... tsunami territory” ([08:24]).
• The majority of Americans now view ICE unfavorably; about half would abolish it ([08:24]-[08:54]).

4. Is Abolishing ICE a ‘Moderate’ Position Now?

Starts: 09:23

• Aaron contends that "abolishing ICE is the moderate position today for Democrats to take," distinctly separate from "abolish the police" ([09:23]).
• ICE is framed as uniquely abusive and extralegal by both hosts, especially in "ripping apart families."
• He rebuts the Searchlight Institute's recommendation for incremental reforms, arguing that polarizing times demand more decisive action ([09:23]).
• Jessica urges caution about messaging, concerned about potential Republican counterattacks linking "abolish ICE" to prior "defund the police" rhetoric ([10:38]).
  • She also expresses concern over budget logistics: “What do you do about TSA or CBP?” if ICE or DHS funding is cut ([10:38]).

Notable Quote

• “…the moderate position in a normal administration… Fine, take the moderate position. Say we don’t need to abolish ICE, we just need some reforms. Great. But we’re not living through normal times right now.”
  – Aaron Parnas ([09:23])

5. Calls for Reform and Challenges in Implementation

Starts: 10:38

• Jessica lays out basic reform proposals: more rigorous training for agents, body cams, mandatory identification, banning unmarked vans and warrantless searches ([10:38]).
• She laments pushback even on common-sense proposals like identification and accountability ([10:38]).
• Quotes David Shor (Blue Rose Strategies): “abolishing ICE is not a nuts idea” in these times ([10:38]).

Notable Quote

• "These guys need to be trained more than 47 days... you need to wear body cams. We need to know who... you need a badge number. You can't throw people in unmarked vans... it shouldn't be going this way."
  – Jessica Tarlov ([10:38])

6. ICE Funding, Training Deficits, and Militarization

Starts: 12:34

• Aaron is open to a DHS shutdown fight over ICE funding: “I am totally open to another government shutdown as it relates to DHS” ([12:34]).
• Points out ICE's enormous, military-scale budget and misallocation (e.g., influencer recruitment campaigns).
• NBC News Report: AI used by ICE to vet job applicants misclassifies civilian experience as law enforcement training, leading to undertrained agents on the street ([13:10]).
• Lax vetting: an anti-ICE activist was hired with no scrutiny of her social media ([13:58]).

Notable Quote

• "They're putting people on the streets with not enough training or really any training at this point. And you're seeing what happens."
  – Aaron Parnas ([13:10])

• "When you're working off of quotas, when you're just trying to satisfy Stephen Miller's fever dreams... you're going to be making a lot of mistakes."
  – Jessica Tarlov ([13:58])

7. [Brief] Foreign Policy Check: Iran, Greenland

Starts: 17:25

Iran

• Heightened chance of U.S. intervention after Iran closes airspace following violent crackdowns on protestors ([17:42]).
• “If the United States does not get involved, I don’t know how these protests continue at this point.” – Aaron ([17:49])
• Both express uncertainty and skepticism about whether "help is on the way" for Iranian protestors ([18:35]).

Greenland

• EU military presence raises stakes over control of Greenland ([19:00]).
• Both expect a "deal" giving the U.S. de facto control rather than outright annexation ([19:10]).

8. NYC/Politics Update: Mamdani Administration Early Review

Starts: 20:00

• Jessica and Aaron praise Mayor Mamdani's rollout of universal pre-K, small business reforms, and efforts to accelerate housing construction ([20:00]).
• Effective avoidance of controversy, positive comparison to predecessor Eric Adams.
• Public enthusiasm: “He’s like Mick Jagger, Madonna, McDonni…people love him.” – Jessica ([21:15])
• Both expect potential challenges ahead despite early success.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Getting charges against ICE agents right now. Good luck.”
  – Aaron Parnas ([02:50])

• “When all of the good guys are resigning, who’s left… it’s really a double edged sword.”
  – Aaron Parnas ([05:45])

• “I feel differently than I did in the first Trump administration...people who are really making a lot of positive change are folks on the outside battling the administration that way.”
  – Jessica Tarlov ([06:28])

• “The judiciary, not talking about the DOJ, I’m talking about judges across the country… have been holding the line pretty well.”
  – Jessica Tarlov ([07:20])

• “Abolishing ICE is the moderate position today for Democrats to take.”
  – Aaron Parnas ([09:23])

• “When you say [ICE reforms] out loud, you would think most people would say, like, oh, well, obviously… But I was met with such opposition…”
  – Jessica Tarlov ([10:38])

• "They're putting people on the streets with not enough training or really any training at this point."
  – Aaron Parnas ([13:10])

• "He's like Mick Jagger, Madonna, McDonni… people love him."
  – Jessica Tarlov on Mayor Mamdani ([21:15])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:44] – Introduction to the Minneapolis ICE protests and review of recent shooting
• [02:50] – Why ICE agents rarely face criminal charges; introduction to qualified immunity debate
• [04:50] – State vs. federal jurisdiction on ICE accountability; resignations of civil rights officials
• [06:28] – The role of institutional insiders vs. outside activists
• [07:34] – Judicial checks on the administration, polling, and implications for 2026 elections
• [09:23] – Is abolishing ICE now the moderate Democratic position?
• [10:38] – Debate over proper messaging, incremental reform vs. abolition, and specific reforms
• [12:34] – ICE funding debate, agency training deficits, and AI mishaps in vetting
• [17:25] – Quick round-up: U.S. foreign policy in Iran and Greenland
• [20:00] – NYC/Mamdani administration update: early policy successes

Tone and Style

The discussion is brisk and energetic, with a centrist, pragmatic orientation. Both hosts display a willingness to criticize both left and right extremes, but concede that in today’s political environment, formerly “radical” stances (like abolishing ICE) may be the new centrist position. Humor and sarcasm pepper the more serious commentary, keeping the episode lively.

Summary Verdict

This episode gives listeners a thorough, centrist breakdown of the ICE controversy in Minneapolis and the national climate that has shifted public opinion toward abolition. It offers legal, political, and practical perspectives on reform, accountability, and the pitfalls of institutional inertia. It’s a strong primer on the issue for those venturing beyond headlines—presented in a way that’s accessible to left, right, and, above all, centrist listeners.