Mullin Tries to "Moderate" Trump-Era Mass Deportations Politics

Summary

---

Podcast Summary

Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov

Episode: Mullin Tries to "Moderate" Trump-Era Mass Deportations Politics
Date: March 18, 2026
Host: Jessica Tarlov
Guest: Congressman Maxwell Frost (Florida's 10th District)
Network: Vox Media Podcast Network

---

Overview

In this episode, Jessica Tarlov interviews Congressman Maxwell Frost, the youngest member of Congress, about the contentious confirmation hearing for Markwayne Mullin as DHS Secretary, the ongoing immigration and government shutdown crises, financial pressures facing voters, lessons from the recent Illinois primary, Democratic strategy in challenging states (notably Florida), and how the party must regain Gen Z voters. Frost offers both insider perspective and grassroots insights, with a focus on authenticity, long-term organizing, and big policy visions.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Mullin’s DHS Confirmation Hearing and Loyalty to Trump

[02:44–07:55]

• Hearing’s Tense Atmosphere: Mullin faced sharp questions about whether he’d break the law if ordered by the President. As usual, he deflected, which both host and guest see as disingenuous.
  • “The answer to the question would be yes, he would break the law if Donald Trump asked him to. That's why he didn't answer the question.”
    — Congressman Maxwell Frost [04:22]
• Mullin’s Image: Frost references Mullin’s past confrontational style, notably the viral moment where he challenged the Teamsters president.
• Loyalty over Legality in Trump’s Cabinet: Frost points to Trump's demand for absolute loyalty, noting that dissent is quickly punished and that “being dropped” is a constant threat.
  • “Donald Trump doesn't have any loyalty towards his people, but he expects his people to have loyalty towards him, even if it means breaking the law.”
    — Frost [04:43]
• Narrative Shift at DHS: Mullin tried to backtrack previous inflammatory remarks, but according to Frost, this is more about optics than substantive change.
  • “He's not there to talk about what he thinks. He's there to provide cover for Donald Trump. That's his entire utility.”
    — Frost [07:00]
• Democratic Unity: Frost calls for all Democrats to vote no on Mullin’s confirmation, echoing ongoing Senate skepticism.

Immigration Policy, Government Shutdown, and Community Impact

[08:12–11:19]

• Partial Shutdown: The government remains partially shut down, affecting DHS, TSA, FEMA, etc. The White House is offering minor concessions (e.g., body cams, limits on raids at schools/churches), but Frost says this isn’t enough.
• Body Cams as a Floor, Not a Ceiling: Video evidence alone hasn’t prevented injustice.
  • "It's not just about us being able to document atrocities … it's making sure the atrocities don't happen in the first place."
    — Frost [09:33]
• Constituent Concerns: In Frost’s district, fears about ICE and housing insecurity are top issues, underscoring how immigration enforcement directly affects communities.

Economic Anxiety, Trump’s “Forever War,” & Voter Disillusionment

[11:19–15:50]

• Disillusioned Trump Voters: Clip of a former Trump backer calling him “a worthless pile of—” followed by her regret. Frost says this sentiment is increasingly common on the ground.
• Economic Pain Real and Political: Voters are frustrated by rising costs, especially gas and food, feeling that Trump’s policies actively worsen their lives.
  • “The richest people ... they're doing better than they've ever done. Every decision Donald Trump makes is based on those people doing well. Everyone else, he doesn't give a damn about.”
    — Frost [13:32]
• Need for Democratic Vision: Frost insists Democrats must present an affirmative, transformative agenda, not just anti-Trump rhetoric.

Importance of Bold, Clear Policy Agendas

[15:50–17:15]

• Democratic Messaging: Frost and Tarlov agree the party needs to distill its promises into clear, actionable items people feel apply to them—“no tax on tips” as an example.
• Lessons from 2006: Frost references the Democratic “Six for 06” playbook, calling for a few (even just one) concrete, ambitious policies.

Lessons from the Illinois Primaries & Big Money’s Impact

[20:35–23:58]

• Juliana Stratton’s Win: Frost attributes success to authentic messaging and standing up to Trump, which energized Democratic voters.
• Dark Money and Democracy: The episode highlights the outsized role of special interests like crypto and AIPAC, with $20M+ spent in a handful of races, depressing turnout and distorting democracy.
  • “We have to end Citizens United. We have to get big money out of politics. ... It is just disgusting that that kind of money can be put into these races.”
    — Frost [22:19]
• Progressive Momentum: Despite heavy outside spending, bold progressive platforms triumphed in some key races.

Candidate Consolidation: Preventing Electoral Disasters

[23:58–27:28]

• Split Votes a Risk: Overcrowded fields and lack of coordination could allow Republicans to win even in blue-leaning districts/states.
• Case-by-Case Caution: Frost notes candidate decisions to stay/exit races are personal but stresses early conversations and strategy grounded in local reality.
  • “Sometimes you have to make hard decisions. ... Now, a lot of the discourse I saw online ... too late, brother.”
    — Frost [26:30]

Florida Politics & Building Democratic Power Long-Term

[27:28–33:25]

• Closing the Gap: Florida is not a lost cause; margins are narrowing statewide.
• Policy Wins at the Ballot Box: Progressive measures routinely pass by majority, demonstrating underlying support despite GOP attacks.
• Organizing Beyond Cycles: Frost and Tarlov stress party-building between elections for lasting change.
  • "It is day to day power building that'll help us in the long run ... what's your plan to ensure that what you're building doesn't disappear the day after you win or lose?"
    — Frost [30:27]
• Open the Electoral Map: Attention and resources should be given to places like Arizona, Texas, North Carolina, and even Iowa and Kansas.

On Long-Term Strategy and Republican Precedent

[33:25–34:47]

• Democratic Myopia vs. GOP Long Game: The right spent decades organizing to overturn Roe v. Wade; Democrats must have similar patience and focus.
  • “Getting Roe v. Wade overturned was a 50 year plan and ... they got there ... we were like, oh, didn't think that could happen.”
    — Tarlov [33:25]
  • “They also always tell you their plan.”
    — Tarlov [33:47]

Rebuilding the Relationship with Gen Z

[34:47–40:11]

• Gen Z’s Dissatisfaction: Young people feel both parties are failing them, facing economic precarity, housing scarcity, and systemic inequities, despite following “the rules.”
  • “Young people ... did everything they were told to do ... and everyone's learning that it was BS ... it's not working for them.”
    — Frost [34:47]
• Apathy vs. Engagement: Sustained suffering drives youth either to withdrawal or activism.
• Why Some Gen Z Turned to Trump: It’s about rebellion and counterculture vibes, not sudden conservatism.
  • “This is a generation ... susceptible to adhering to ... whatever the counterculture is at the time, because they know that the status quo isn't working.”
    — Frost [36:07]
• Path Forward: Policy + Authenticity: Dems must offer bold, clear, immediately impactful policies and communicate authentically. Young people want substance and realness, not pandering.
  • “The more you can be authentic, the better you'll be ... that's the way I connect with a lot of young people in my district.”
    — Frost [38:54]
• Urgent Needs: Food and housing insecurity dominate inquiries from young constituents.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Cabinet Appointments & Loyalty:
  “Donald Trump doesn't have any loyalty towards his people, but he expects his people to have loyalty towards him, even if it means breaking the law.”
  — Maxwell Frost [04:43]

• On Democratic Messaging:
  “No, I'm not is not a compelling message.”
  — Frost (on Florida Dems’ strategy) [28:49]

• On Big Money in Politics:
  “We have to end Citizens United. We have to get big money out of politics.”
  — Frost [22:19]

• On Youth Disillusionment:
  “Everyone’s learning that it was BS … it’s not working for them.”
  — Frost [34:55]

• On Long-Term Strategy:
  “If you don't want to lose it for a generation ... I really think it’s going to be states like Florida, Arizona, Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, South Carolina, the South and the Sun Belt.”
  — Frost [30:47]

• On Gen Z Voter Attitudes:
  “I think this is also a generation that is very susceptible to adhering to and being a part of whatever the counterculture is at the time, because they know that the status quo isn't working.”
  — Frost [36:07]

• On Organizing:
  “It is day to day power building that'll help us in the long run.”
  — Frost [30:27]

---

Important Segments & Timestamps

• 02:44 – Show Intro & Topics
• 03:32 – Mullin DHS Hearing & Trump Era Immigration
• 06:07 – Cabinet Loyalty and Confirmation Dynamics
• 08:17 – DHS, Shutdown, and Negotiations on Immigration Policy
• 10:08 – On-the-Ground Concerns in Frost’s District
• 11:19 – Trump Voter Clip and Economic Dissent
• 15:50 – Importance of Affirmative Democratic Policy
• 20:35 – Illinois Primary Takeaways
• 22:15 – Discussion on Big Political Money
• 23:58 – Vote Splitting & Consolidation in Democratic Primaries
• 27:28 – Florida Politics, Statewide Strategies, and Party Building
• 33:25 – The Long Game: Lessons from Roe v. Wade
• 34:47 – Gen Z Voters and Rebuilding Democratic Connections
• 38:54 – The Role of Authenticity and Youth Engagement

---

Tone & Takeaway

The episode is energetic, direct, and deeply invested in improving Democratic political strategy and representation. Both Tarlov and Frost foreground practical organizing and substantive policy over slogans or cynical Beltway games. Frost’s authenticity and on-the-ground perspective—“we don’t stop door knocking”—serves as a call to action for systemic reform and real engagement with disillusioned or angry voters, especially the young. The sense is not just of warning but of genuine optimism about the power of sustained organizing, bold policy ideas, and authenticity in political leadership.

Transcript

[Advertiser/Host]

It's true that some things change as we get older. But if you're a woman over 40 and you're dealing with insomnia, brain fog, moodiness and weight gain, you don't have to accept it as just another part of aging. And with MITI Health, you can get help and stop pushing through it alone. The experts at MIDI understand that all these symptoms can be connected to the hormonal changes that happen around menopause. And MIDI can help you feel more like yourself again. Many healthcare providers aren't trained to treat or even recognize menopause symptoms. MIDI clinicians are menopause experts. They're dedicated to providing safe, effective, FDA approved solutions for dozens of hormonal symptoms, not just hot flashes. Most importantly, they're covered by insurance. 91% of MDI patients get relief from symptoms within just two months. You deserve to feel great. Book your virtual visit today@join MIDI.com that's join M I D I.com support for

[Sponsor Announcer]

this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other, Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e commerce, and more. And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you try Odoo for [e-mail] that's o d o o.com.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

Support for this show comes from Attio, the AICRM for modern businesses. There are teams closing deals twice as fast as everyone else. Always one step ahead, always prepared. But how are they doing that? Come to find out, they're using Attio. Attio connects your email, calls, product data and more. So you always have complete context on every customer. You can then ask Attio to plan your next move. Draft outreach spot deals at risk and find out where anything stands. Ask more from your CRM. Ask Attio. You can go to attio.com Vox and you'll get 15% off your first year. That's attio.com Vox.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlev and today I'm very lucky to be joined by Congressman Maxwell Frost, Florida's 10th district representative. Congressman, thank you so much for your time.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

Yeah, thanks for having me.

[Jessica Tarlev]

So today in our episode of Raging Moderates, we're Going to be talking about Mark Wayne Mullen's confirmation hearing and the future of dhs. What we learned from yesterday's primaries and how the war is shaping the midterms and how the youngest member of Congress, that's you, thinks Democrats can win over Gen Z. Before we start, if you haven't already, please make sure to subscribe to our YouTube page to get up to date coverage on everything happening. That's The Raging Moderates YouTube page. All right, let's get into it. So. So the Department of Homeland Security and Immigration is front and center in Washington today. Mark Wayne Mullen has his confirmation hearing where he's facing questions already. It's in progress as we're talking about how he would execute Trump's mass deportation plans. It started out very tense between him and Rand Paul, but I wanna watch this clip of an exchange with Senator Maggie Hassan.

[Advertiser/Host]

I'm gonna start with a question I have asked every one of the president's nominees. If directed by the President, to take an action that would break the law, would you follow the law or follow the President's direction?

[Jessica Tarlev]

Senator, thank you for the questions and

[Advertiser/Host]

thank you for the concerns.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

First of all, I've enjoyed working with

[Advertiser/Host]

you on several different issues. We've had very blunt conversations to answer your question.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

The President would never ask me to do that.

[Advertiser/Host]

Well, certainly everyday Americans who have served on juries would disagree with you about that. And the example he has set calls into question that answer.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Let's move, sir.

[Advertiser/Host]

I have limited time, as you all

[Jessica Tarlev]

know, so that question is always a bit of like the money shot for our side. And they all answer it the same way. And we know that it's bs but what do you think about Mark Wade Mullen?

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

You know, I don't know a ton about him. Besides, I always think about that video of him wanting to square up with the Teamsters president. So that's the thing that always comes to mind. But him accepting this nomination and sitting there and wanting to be in the Cabinet already shows us who he is. Right. Donald Trump in this second term especially, accepts nothing short of 100% loyalty. The answer to the question would be yes, he would break the law if Donald Trump asked him to. That's why he didn't answer the question. He knows if he says anything short of yes or if he doesn't deflect, then Donald Trump will just drop him. Because Donald Trump doesn't have any loyalty towards his people, but he expects his people to have loyalty towards him, even if it means breaking the law. So you Know him, just him accepting this position shows us exactly who he is.

[Jessica Tarlev]

He also. There was an interesting exchange with Senator Welch, who asked him about right after Alex Preddy was killed in Minneapolis, Markwin Mullen said that he was a deranged individual that came in to cause maximum damage. And I was kind of surprised that Senator Mullen said that he probably should have retracted those comments. Then he kind of waffled a bit and said, you know, we'll see what the investigation bears out. But we know a, there aren't any real investigations into any of this, and no one is going to be talking about. They just want to move on. But there is this narrative now that DHS is getting a bit of a. A refurb and that they know that they can't be implementing immigration law the same way that they were in the past. Do you give that any credence, or you think that they're just going to lay low for a couple of months and then we're going to see what we saw in Minneapolis again?

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

I definitely think in the immediate, they're, they're, they're obviously pivoting and changing tactics because. And it's not because it's the right thing to do. It's because Donald Trump is seeing how it's going to impact him in the midterms and how it's impacting his personal polling, which is the main thing he cares about. So I think we'll have to see, as we move along, if it tends, if it's going to rev up again. But, you know, I think that with a lot of these Cabinet officials with Trump, I like to think they have, like, two. Two devils on their shoulders, you know, talking to their ear, right? One is them and trying to keep true to what they believe. And I think that moment where he said, well, maybe I should, you know, where he was kind of retracting what he said, I think that was a moment of him allowing himself to speak a little bit. But then the other one is Donald Trump, right? Which is knowing that Trump is watching these confirmation hearings or Trump's people, and that if he does anything short of show full allegiance to Trump, if he criticizes Trump, anything like that, immediately he can be dropped. And obviously, he doesn't want to be dropped because he cares more about his position in power and his proximity to Trump than he does his own values or his own beliefs. So I think, you know, that's what you see play out in all these confirmation hearings. And this is the same exact thing. He knows it was wrong to call Him a domestic terrorist. He knows what's going on is wrong, but he's not there to talk about what he thinks. He's there to provide cover for Donald Trump. That's his entire utility right then and there. Right. Firing Kristi Noem and bringing Mark Wayne Mullen is a thing that Donald Trump did to try to move along the conversation. And I'm glad we're seeing some of the senators not allow that to happen just because they're a Senate colleague. The fact of the matter is every Democrat should vote no on this, especially with what we've seen from him thus far.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah. I think John Fetterman has already said that he is a yes on Mullen, but my expectation is that you won't be seeing any crossover votes for the duration of the Trump term. I do. Like there are two devils on a shoulder. I was like, oh, where's your little angel? But there. There is no angel.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

Angel. There's no angel on the shoulder. I wish there was an angel on the shoulder, but no.

[Jessica Tarlev]

We're also just to stay on immigration for another minute. So we are still in the midst of a partial government shutdown with aspects of DHS, shut down, TSA, FEMA, etc. The White House is now offering concessions to try and end that shutdown, including expanded use of body cameras for federal agents and limits on enforcement at places like schools and churches. A no go still, though, on the judicial warrants for sure and unmasking ICE agents. Do you think there's going to be any progress in reopening the government?

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

We'll have to see how the discussions go. I think it's good news that the White House is at least conceding some things because their entire posture up until now was, we're not going to change anything. We're not going to negotiate with you. So it's showing that what we're doing is working. Is it enough? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I mean, when you look at what they sent to us, they're number one. They're not committing to everyone having body cameras. Right. They're saying, we're going to increase them. What does that mean? No one knows what that means, and we're not gonna trust you to do that. And also, it's not just body cameras because let's be honest, Renee, Nicole, Good. Alex Preddy. We have video of what happened. Right. Which is good. Body cameras are important. However, this isn't just about us being able to document atrocities as they happen so we can see and hold people accountable after. It's making sure. The atrocities don't happen in the first place, which means that list needs to expand greatly. I think the judicial warrants is one of the most important things. And my hope is, you know, well, Democrats will stay strong on this because that list that they sent, although it shows that what we're doing is working and trying to hold ICE accountable, it is not enough for what we need to make sure that we can go back to our districts and tell our constituents that their taxpayer money isn't going to be used to terrorize our communities or kill American citizens in the middle of the street.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Is that something that you're hearing a lot about in your district?

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

I hear a ton about it in my district. I mean, when it's, it's interesting. Number one, I'm one of the few members of Congress actually does year round organizing. So all year, like literally since I was elected, we don't stop door knocking. And it's really important because it helps us understand what people care about. And when we're knocking doors, the top two issues I hear about, number one, I hear a lot about housing and the housing crisis. And then number two, I'll hear about people's fear of what's going on with ICE and the chaos and that it's too much and that they're seeing it in their community. They have a neighbor that was taken that's been a law abiding person for decade. So I hear about really both of those things in my district and I

[Jessica Tarlev]

would imagine also hot topic of conversation is prices. And I'm curious as to the correlation between what people are experiencing on the ground here and then this feeling that we have now entered another. I don't want to call it a forever war yet, but certainly they're still going with four to six weeks. But I have asked authorization up, you know, to infinity. And I wanted to play this clip of a Trump voter from Pennsylvania reacting to her current situation.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

If you could say something to President Trump and he was going to hear you right now, what would it be?

[Jessica Tarlev]

You are a worthless pile of.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

And you voted for him how many times?

[Jessica Tarlev]

Three times. That was my bad.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

Apparently I'm an idiot.

[Jessica Tarlev]

So are you getting some of that sentiment on the ground?

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

100%. And actually I just was. I just did a video at one of our gas stations talking about this and I took some time to walk around and speak with people as they're pumping gas. What do you think about this? What do you think about this? I even spoke with one guy who's a Republican, voted for Donald Trump, who mentioned that he's just upset, right. That it's not that the president isn't focused on lowering prices. He's actively making it worse decision. He's making. The decisions he's making is making us making it. So we're paying more at the pump, at the grocery store and rent in many different places as well. I think something that's important to know, though, is what she said is important, where she said, I guess I'm a fool, or I guess I'm an idiot, because it's Donald Trump himself who posted that if you disagree with him that it's okay and we should be fine with paying more for gas for his reckless illegal war in Iran, then you're a fool. And so he is pushing away his own base. He's pushing away the entire country. But I think it's a really important point because there's some people saying, well, Trump isn't focused enough on lowering costs. That's not the problem. In fact, if he was doing nothing, we'd be in a better situation now. It's that he's actively making it worse.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, I'm definitely seeing that, at least in the coverage that we're doing. And you see that, like, these bits breaking through where people who are really big fans of the president are getting, like, jobs reports, GDP reports, inflation reports, and trying to find new language for, like, what in the hell is going on here? And it feels like they're making policy choices almost intentionally to spike prices or to make lifelong Trump fans, or at least from 2015 onwards, Trump fans say once and for all, this guy just isn't for me.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

Well, and you know, the interesting thing is, too, if you, if you look at the numbers, the people at the very top are doing great, right? The, the richest, richest, richest people in our country, the billionaires, the people that he had lined up at his inauguration in the front row, they're doing better than they've ever done, that every decision Donald Trump makes is based on those people doing well. Everyone else, he doesn't give a damn about his voters. He doesn't care about his voters. He doesn't care about working people. He doesn't care about poor people. He doesn't care about any of that. He cares about making sure that billionaires and mega corporations make more money. And so whether or not it's reckless wars in Iran, whether or not it's the big beautiful bill, that's the largest transfer of wealth from the working class to the billionaires and mega corporations in the history of our Country. That is his focus. And to be fair, that's always been his focus his entire life. And so I just think that's the important thing for us to recognize. The other thing I'll say is I saw bits of this last year. I went on the road with Senator Chris Murphy, and we went to exclusively red districts to host these town halls. We thought we'd get a couple hundred people at each one, and we ended up getting thousands at each one. And people would come up to us afterwards and say, you know, I voted for the other guy. I voted for Trump. I was curious. That's why I showed up. And I am seeing that my local VA, my small VA that was 10 people, is now three people. And that's really had a big impact on my life. And the reason I bring that up is when we. When the impact stays in dc, Donald Trump's always going to have the biggest megaphone in this, in Washington, dc. He's the President of the United States. He's always gonna kind of overshadow what other people say. But when the impact is felt at home, at your va, at the gas pump, in your bills and what you're paying, it is hard for him to gaslight people as to, you know, what they're feeling and seeing right in front of them. And I think that's the big reason why you're seeing parts of his coalition being torn apart now. You know, there's always gonna be that percentage that's just gonna be with him no matter what. But I see that there's a lot of folks who voted for him this last election that are saying, okay, I made a mistake. Or maybe they don't admit they made a mistake, and they're just saying, this is not what I expected. And that's where, as Democrats, it's not just about being against something. We have to be for something. Because just because these people are saying they're upset with Trump doesn't mean they're gonna vote for Democrats unless we give them something to vote for.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, I totally agree with you. Having an affirmative policy vision, I've been pushing your leadership on this to just saying, like, what are our three nifty policies, right, that we're going to go into the general election with, like a no tax on tips that fits on a bumper sticker that people can say, oh, you're thinking about me.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

Yeah, gotta be specific. And it has to be big ideas that a lot of people can see themselves represented in. I actually, a few months ago, I had a meeting with Speaker Pelosi about 6,406. Because I think that is the kind of energy and the kind of ideas that we need, right? That in 2006, when Democrats took back the House, they ran on one on and then passed within 100 hours, six specific pieces of legislation. I'm not saying it has to be six. It can be three, it can be four, can be five. But I think that's really important. It can be one. It'd be one big one. If it's one, it has to be like one big one. But I just think, you know, our rebuttal to what's going on now can't be elect us so we can get it back to where it was. Because when you talk with especially swing voters that voted Obama, Trump, Biden, Trump, these are voters that just want change and they want this economy to be transformed. And so I think it's important that we have some very specific things that can transform a person's economy and a person's pocketbook and help them in a big way. And that's something that we're working on.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Let's take a quick break. Stay with us.

[Advertiser/Host]

This is advertiser Content brought to you by Stonyfield Organic. Our cows, them going out to pasture, they love it. They're so excited to go out every day. They wait right at the door and in fact, we milk them and we just open up the laneway and let them just go right out to pasture. I'm Rhonda Miller Goodrich and I'm a dairy farmer in Cabot, Vermont. Our farm is Molly Brook Farm. We're an organic dairy farm and we are a supplier to Stonyfield. Molly Brook Farm has been in my husband's family since 1835. We started our organic transition in 2015. We had 53 acres of corn ground and of course we had to use herbicides and pesticides and the soil was dead, really, for all intents purposes. We stopped growing corn and stopped using herbicides and pesticides, and we seeded that down to perennial grasses. After that, we began to see biodiversity in that soil again. To be organic certified, our cows need to be in pasture at least 120 days. I think the organic practices really benefit our animals. You know, having good feedback, good water, a nice light area. That's what's important to us and that's what's important to Stonyfield. Visit stonyfield.com to find Stonyfield Organic Yogurt near you.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. Introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, E commerce, and more. And the best part, Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you try Odoo for [e-mail] that's o d o o.com

[Advertiser/Host]

continue on your existing route. Caution Office politics ahead. Rerouting hazard reported Downsizing in progress. Rerouting Promotion denied. Make an immediate U turn. Dead end ahead. Consider alternate route.

[Sponsor Announcer]

If only there was a GPS system to help you navigate your career. Fortunately, there's Strawberry Me where you will be matched with a career coach who will help you find the best career route for you, either by helping you get unstuck at your current job or by helping you land a new, more rewarding one. If your career has hit a dead end, Strawberry Me can get you moving again. Go to Strawberry Me unstuck and get 50% off your first coaching set session. That's Strawberry Me unstuck. Now is the most affordable time ever to find out if career coaching is right for you.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Welcome back. I'm curious as to what you thought of the election results from Illinois last night. Big primaries. Juliana Stratton got the Senate nomination. Big win for her lieutenant governor. Also big win for J.B. pritzker, who was her biggest booster financially and, you know, cheerleading as well. What were the lessons you took from Illinois?

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

A couple different lessons, I think. Obviously, you know, the lieutenant governor ran on a platform of, you know, fiercely opposing and fighting back against the Trump administration, which I think is the reason that she won and especially why she ran up numbers. And she really overperformed. A lot of folks didn't think she would perform as well in a lot of the suburbs, in a lot of those different areas all around Illinois. And she outperformed people's expectations. And I think it's because she, you know, was unafraid to say what was on her mind. I think people saw her as a very authentic candidate who was meeting the moment. And, and that's what people are looking for, especially in a Democratic primary right now. You know, part of the reason why the Democratic Party poll numbers aren't great is, of course, you always have, you know, half the country or however many people in the country that are just going to, you know, disagree with you or not like the party but then we also have our own base that are upset because they want to see people fighting back. And I think she embodied that, and I think that's part of the reason why she won. The other thing, though, that I have to bring up is speaking with a lot of my friends that are organizers in Chicago. You know, they felt like it was less candidates on the ballot, and it was more like there was huge special interest on the ballot. I mean, it's crypto.

[Jessica Tarlev]

AI. Aipac. I want to talk about apac. Huge factors in these elections.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

And we're talking about. I think between those. Just those three, I think it was over 21 or 22 million dollars and just a few House races. I think four or five House races. We have to get big money out of politics. I mean, it is just. It is just disgusting that that kind of money can be put into these races. Because what that does is, number one, it really pushes down turnout. Because when you're waking up every morning and you're seeing negatives ads about this person and that person and this and that, you just give up. A lot of people just give up and say, I'm just not going to vote, and it's not good for our democracy. And so we just. We have to end Citizens United. We have to get big money out of politics. I just. I think that's really important. But, you know, glad to be serving with a lot of new colleagues coming in. But I was looking at this race that the Progressive Caucus endorsed in, which was Jan Schakowski seat. And I love Jan Schakowski, and we're going to miss her in Congress. And I think the interesting thing there is the top two vote getters were two people running on a platform of demanding more of our government and transforming our economy. And I think that says something about that district and the fact that the top two people were people saying, we have to transform this economy. And obviously, Mayor Daniel Biswan, we're really excited to welcome him into the Progressive Caucus. Kat Abu Ghazali, I think, ran a really good campaign. She came really close in a district like that. Um, but taking a step back, just looking at what these candidates ran on, big, bold, transformational change won right in that. In that election. And I think that's just something people should pay attention to, despite all the money that was thrown into it.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, there was. I mean, that race definitely captured national attention. I think a lot of that was due to Kat's profile and her online presence, for sure. Um, but something that stuck out to me about it was it was like 29% versus 26%. And I understand it's a crowded field. And I'm thinking also at the California governor's race, which is coming up, which is a jungle primary and a very different thing, but there has even been some polling where the two Republicans were the top vote getters, which would be an abject disaster for the Democratic Party. And I'm curious as to what you think about people getting out of the way or consolidating so that we can make smarter choices. You know, Daniel Biss and Kat Abiguzala, they're both progressives. Right. And there was an AIPAC element in there. You know, like, they used to like this. Then they turned against him. And I think AIPAC went to a four in the night in Illinois. But I have big time fear of lack of coordination and personal ego being a reason that we don't get the strongest candidate or, God forbid, lose races.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely something. And I'm on the progressive caucus pack, and it's something that we're constantly looking at. You know, we want to help get in early to help support progressives across the country. We want to help consolidate people around, you know, folks that the community, you know, wants to see elected. I'm worried about what we're seeing in California. And this is. But, you know, this is a tale kind of as old as time. Right. Is like, politicians have big egos. Whoa. And. And what we need to do.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Shocking me.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

Yeah. Oh, my God. But. But I think it's really important that we do everything we can, the people who are in institutions, people who are in organizations, to work at that coalescing because people will take advantage of it, whether it's within our party in a primary and, you know, duking it out to figure out what the values of our own party, you know, is, or if it's running against Republicans and like what we're seeing in California. And so my hope is candidates take a really, you know, take a hard look at those numbers, and sometimes you have to make hard decisions. And if there's a certain kind of candidate you don't want to see elected and you see that the vote is being split, what are you going to do about it? And it's not always the same story across the board. I'm not going to be the person here to say if you're polling at X percent, you should drop out by this date. It's different. It's case by case. And there's very personal reasons for running for office. And so I don't, I don't want to sit here and kind of cast that upon everybody. But there are times where you do have to look at the numbers and make a decision. Now, a lot of the discourse I saw online on a lot of these races where people were asking people to drop out and this and that, people were having that discourse a few days before election day. Too late, brother. I mean, like, when you're talking about these discussions and you know, you have to be thinking about when people start voting early, vote, vote by mail. You also have to think about the fact that in many states you can't even take your name off the ballot if you were to, you know, do it a week before, two weeks before, even three weeks before. So these are just the things people need to have in mind. This is part of the problem when, I mean, it's Internet discourse is welcome and important in any race, but I always try to really just pick up the phone and call my friends who live in the community who understand the rules of the, you know, election law in that area and everything like that. So I can understand, all right, what is my opinion here. And it's based on facts on, you know, on the ground. And I think that's really important too.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Definitely the, the number of times the online mafia has been proven wrong by actual election results are probably too high to count. I want to talk to you about Florida. I'm in New York and so I think I look at a lot of these states with rose colored glasses or possibility that I, I wish could be, but might not actually be practical. We have seen some Democratic flips that are very big deals. The new mayor of Boca is going to be a Democrat, one by one vote. How much of it is a pipe dream that Florida could elect a David Jolly as governor, for instance. And what's the kind of temperature on the ground there?

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

I mean, none of it's a pipe dream. I mean, if you look at every statewide election since the one where we lost pretty big, right, about six years ago, we have been closing that margin little by little every single election at the statewide level. That, like, that's how you get to a place where you win. And we need candidates at the statewide level that will help us close that gap even further and further and further and hopefully winning. Right? And I think part of what we're seeing is a lot of Florida Democrats, hopefully everyone has learned the lesson that when the Republicans in Florida call you communist, socialist, this and that, like, you could be the most moderate person in the world if you're a Democrat on a statewide ballot in Florida, you're gonna get called every single name under the book, whether you're progressive or moderate. The problem is Florida Democrats for so long, we would spend all of our ad buy money and all of our time on ads that said, no, I'm not, and I don't know about you, but no, I'm not is not a compelling message. Especially in a state where every time there is a democratic value or progressive policy on the ballot direct to the voters through ballot initiative, guess What? More than 50% of the people in the state say yes to it. And in most cases, we actually outright win it. Which you have to get 60% to win a ballot initiative in Florida. $15. Minimum wage, yes. Voting rights for people with previous felonies, yes. Medical marijuana, yes. Adult use marijuana didn't hit the 60% threshold, but far more than 50% of voters said yes. Abortion rights, far more than 50% of voters Said yes to. So I say this to say that the more we have candidates who connect the policy and our values to the people on the ground through mass organizing throughout the state and not wasting our time just being on the defense 100% of the time, I think we're gonna win. I really think we're gonna win. And the fact of the matter is we have to. I mean, if you look out at the map, in the next reapportionment, we're probably gonna lose some electoral votes in states that we're used to having, New York or California. And we're getting to a place where this typical like, you know, the blue wall that we talk about won't be enough for us to win the presidency. And so if you don't want to lose it for a generation, the question is, what are we opening up? What new battlefields are we looking at? And I really think it's going to be states like Florida, Arizona, Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, South Carolina, the South and the Sun Belt. I think Democrats really, you don't have to shift 100%. You can focus everywhere, but we need to be putting resources there. But it's not enough to flood money into an election three months before the election or even the year of the election. It is day to day power building that'll help us in the long run. And I think that's really important. And I ask that of any candidate running statewide, especially when I meet with them, what's your plan to win? Also, what's your plan to ensure that what you're building doesn't disappear the Day after you, you know, win or lose. Right. How do we continue that so we can win the next 10 elections?

[Jessica Tarlev]

I love that. And I'm, I'm throwing Iowa into, I'm

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

optimistic for Iowa, Iowa and honestly, I'll throw another one in Kansas. I think we need to be investing more in Kansas too.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I have not heard that.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

I believe in Kansas. I was talking with Charice Davis about this too. I think David's about this as well. I think Kansas is somewhere where we should be investing in as well and party building there and building up there. I'm not saying it'll happen tomorrow, but when you do that kind of work and you sustain it, who knows what happens in six years, in a decade. And that's important and that's how we can win longer term. And so I just think we need to open up the map a bit. We need to put more resources. Look in these campaigns. It's good to have a lot of money. How much did we have last elect? $2 billion. Right? No, but, but at least on the congressional side, there is an amount of money you hit on ads and everything where you saturate so much that everything you spend on top of that is really just, it gives you diminishing returns and you don't really have a huge roi. I think a lot of times we over invest in paid comms and races where I feel like once you hit that saturation mark, which you should hit, well, how are we using some of that other money to, to build on the ground and make sure that we have an eye out towards the future? Because that's something Republicans did in the state of Florida. That is the reason why the state went from what we considered a purple state to what's now considered a red state. It wasn't a two year plan or a four year plan or a six year plan. It was like a two decades plan. It was, you know, 30 years. That didn't always see returns in the immediate, but they knew in the long run that it would work and it did. And like we have to, we have to think that way as well. And here's the good news. We can do it all. You could do it at the same time. We can party build knowing we might not win every election right in front of us, but we're building towards something bigger. And we can work at winning elections at the short term too. But you know, unfortunately the incentive structure for the DNC and for party officials isn't to think long term, it's the win short term. So that way you can, you know, get reelected, which I get. But we got, we got to do both, I think, especially with the way the math is changing and where people are moving in the country right now.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I totally agree with you. I always think about how getting Roe v. Wade overTurned was a 50 year plan and they were completely content with it and they got there and we were like, oh, didn't think that could happen.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

Yeah, people were surprised and it's like I wasn't surprised one bit.

[Jessica Tarlev]

No, they also always tell you their plan.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

Yeah, they always say, exactly.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I'm like, it's not a secret Cabal. Like Project 2025 is published. The plan for women's healthcare access is published. Like get with it. I want to make sure that I talk to you about the youth. You are the youngest member of Congress and have always been, I think, a great example for, for how the Gen Z generation has, you know, so much vibe, so much interest in pushing back against the status quo, trailblazing, but also this great understanding that you are part of an institution with an enormously long history and there are rules and you have to also fit in. And I'm curious as to how you think Democrats are doing in the rebuild of the relationship with young voters post 2024 and kind of any of your insights as to how that cohort is feeling about politics today.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

You know, I think we have a lot of work to do. I think young people, and I always give the disclaimer, I don't claim to speak for all Gen Z. Right. But you know, my, in my experience and not just in my work now, but you know, working in March for our lives and working in youth voted turnout for a while. Young people are, don't feel very, don't feel super represented by either party. Young people are really upset with the fact that many of them have done, did everything they were told to do. I mean, you know, go to college, you can rack up all this debt, but don't worry, you'll get a job right after you graduate where you can get a house or get a home or get an apartment or at least rent an apartment and this and that. And everyone's learning that it was bs. I mean it was a complete lie and it's not working for them. And so I think people are really lost, anxious, angry. And then on top of that we have this authoritarian regime under Donald Trump that is actively suppressing people's rights, killing our neighbors and all of that compounds and it puts people in a place where they choose one of two things. And this Is what I would always tell my organizers when I worked in organizing is we stand at the crossroads of people either falling further into apathy or getting really, really involved. Because when you get beat down that much, you go into one of those two directions. And that's why I always tell candidates that when it comes down to the youth vote, this is a very. And I still. I still believe this is true. Even with this last election. Maybe some people might disagree when they hear this. This is still a very progressive generation that really wants to see the world through the eyes of the most vulnerable and really wants everyone to do well. I think this is also a generation that is very susceptible to adhering to and being a part of whatever the counterculture is at the time, because they know that the status quo isn't working. And I think that has more to do with why Donald Trump got 46% of the youth vote last election and less with young people saying, you know what? I think I'm like a very conservative, far right person. That's just. I just. That's just not what happened. I think a lot of it had to do with what you brought up. It's the politics of vibes and the politics of this isn't working. Let me try the other thing, because this person is the counterculture. Who was the counterculture before that? Bernie Sanders. Right. And so I think. I just think these are things we have to keep in mind. The way Democrats, I think, can really help get the youth vote back and solidified is twofold. It's what we stand for. And this is why I'm pushing that in our affirmative agenda. Big, bold, transformational change. We can't put forth policies that fix things for some people in this income bracket in four to six years, maybe. Right. It needs to be simple to understand policies that people see themselves in and they say, wow, if that happened, I would be doing better. And that's what we need. The second thing is the way we communicate it, how we communicate it, and where we communicate it. And I think that that's really important as well. And people need to do what's authentic to them. I think a lot of young people are just over politicians trying to, like, cater to young folks and more just want to hear, like, what do you stand for? Who you are, who are you? You know, like, and I think the more you can be authentic, the better you'll be. Like, for me, I do a lot of things relating to the arts. Why? Because I went to art school and I'm a drummer, and that's What I love, you know. And so that's the way I connect with a lot of young people in my district. I host concerts and we talk about politics a little bit there. And 90% of the people who come to these events, they've never been to a political event before. That's my thing, right? Everyone has their own thing. And I have a lot of folks who will come up to me and say, how can we be more like you or Alexandria or Jasmine or this and that. And I always tell them, that's the problem. You shouldn't want to be like them. Part of the reason why a lot of people like folks like that is because they're being themselves. Just be more like yourself. So I think those two things are really important. But at the end of the day, young people do care about policy. They know that the economy is broken. They know that wealth inequality is at all time high. They can't afford a place to live. They can't afford the rent. Youth homelessness is exploding in this country. I think we, we really don't even have a full, clear picture of what it. What it is. And we, we have to do something to transform the economy for everyone, but especially for young people. I'm very worried that just young people, as we grow older, won't own a damn thing. You won't own a house, you won't own a car, because leasing is trending up and up and up. I mean, if it continues the way we're seeing, young people won't own a house, you won't own a car, you won't actually even own the damn phone you own, and you won't own a thing, and you won't have any wealth and you won't be able to pass anything along. And when our country decides to bail people out when the economy doesn't do well, our government always bails out the people who own things. And that's honestly, I think that's like the biggest thing impacting young people right now. My satellite office I have on a college campus. I thought the main thing people would ask us about would be social issues or college debt cancellation. Now, top two, I don't have a place to live. Can you help me find a place to live? Number two, I don't have money to afford food. Can you help me? Food insecurity. Those are the top two things college students come to my satellite office for help on.

[Jessica Tarlev]

That's just heartbreaking to hear that. So also an optimistic element of what you're talking about. But, you know, I'm just an elder millennial, but even to see how things have changed. And it's not like it's easy for the millennial generation writ large. But I hate to hear the college kids are hungry and concerned about where they're going to live. Congressman Maxwell Frost, thank you so much for your time. It was great to have you.

[Congressman Maxwell Frost]

Thanks for having me.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Support for this show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, so why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other, introducing Odoo. It's the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all in one, fully integrated platform that makes your work easier. CRM, accounting, inventory, e commerce, and more. And the best part? Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. That's why over thousands of businesses have made the switch. So why not you try Odoo for [e-mail] that's o d o o.com

[Advertiser/Host]

support for the show comes from Retool. Too many companies run critical operations on duct tape, spreadsheets, slack workflows and whatever else they could cobble together together. Not because they want to, but because building internal tools means weeks of waiting on someone else's backlog. That's where Retool comes in. Build custom internal tools just by describing what you need. Prompt something like Build me a revenue dashboard on our Salesforce data and Retool actually builds it on your company's data in your cloud with enterprise security built in. Go to retool.com Vox we all need to retool how we build software. Support for this show comes from wix. You can make a great looking website with Wix and you can do it your way whether you want AI to jump in or prefer to do things yourself. Get a custom ready to use website in minutes with Wix's AI website builder or choose from more than 2,000 templates. Get built in solutions tailored to your business and enjoy easy fuss. Free domain registration, web hosting included. WIX powers more than 280 million businesses around the world because with Wix you can own your individuality. Create freely and scale fearlessly. Ready to create your website? Go to wix.com that's wix.com.