The Limits of Trump's "Madman" Iran Strategy

Summary

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Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov

Episode Title: The Limits of Trump's "Madman" Iran Strategy
Date: April 23, 2026
Podcast Network: Vox Media Podcast Network

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the rapidly escalating crisis in the Middle East, examining President Trump's aggressive and unconventional approach towards Iran, particularly focused on naval standoffs in the Strait of Hormuz. Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov navigate the fog of war, the information chaos from both sides, the internal conflicts within the U.S. administration, and the broader global impact—especially energy markets. The second half of the episode shifts gears, critiquing American bankruptcy culture in light of Spirit Airlines’ possible collapse and discussing leadership transitions at Apple and the persistent age problem in U.S. politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Strait of Hormuz Crisis and Trump's Iran Policy

[01:55–15:04]

Escalation and Mixed Messaging

• Scott Galloway outlines the day’s breaking news: U.S. forces seize a second Iranian oil tanker in the Indian Ocean, President Trump vows to "shoot and kill any boat" laying mines in the Strait of Hormuz, and Iran’s Revolutionary Guard claims to seize cargo ships. Amid this, the U.S. Navy Secretary is abruptly fired, fueling perceptions of administrative chaos.
• Jessica Tarlov expresses profound confusion and concern:

  “It’s so nuts. Can I just repeat that for half an hour?” (03:11)
  She criticizes Trump’s truth social posts for misinformation and points out, “The FT reports that 34 Iranian linked tankers have gotten through and we’re saying the blockade is still in place. I don’t understand how that’s possible... firing on ships is not a violation of the ceasefire.” (03:20)

• Both hosts lament the lack of credible, consistent information coming from the White House and the Pentagon.

The Calculus of Survival and Economic Pressure

• Scott Galloway quotes David Ignatius, drawing a parallel between insurgent movements and the Iranian strategy:

  “All they need to do is survive. They don’t have to win. Winning is surviving... They’re willing to kill 30,000 of their own citizens.” (06:15)

• Galloway emphasizes that the key to weakening the Iranian regime lies in economic strangulation; deprivation of oil revenue undermines the IRGC’s control, suggesting, “If that money or those checks stop clearing... that’s when people start talking about revolution.” (07:40)
• Guest Analyst adds technical insight: if oil cannot be transported, “the oil well... can basically stop up... and ruin it.” (08:24), emphasizing the “use it or lose it” pressure and the irreversible damage to infrastructure.

International and Diplomatic Ramifications

• Jessica Tarlov notes profound negative impacts on global energy, referencing halted airline routes and jet fuel shortages in Europe:

  “You are talking about a global oil shock that cannot be reversed when you, you know, flip that switch back on. Right. This is going to take months, if not years to fix.” (05:13)

• The hosts criticize the absence of honest diplomacy and the danger of fatigue and normalization of chaos among the public and global actors—citing the old Ho Chi Minh quote about outlasting a stronger but less patient enemy. (09:59)

The “Madman” Strategy and Its Limits

• Speculation arises over whether Trump might order an extraction (i.e., assassination) of Iranian leadership, likening it to his past bravado:

  “If they tried to pull off coordinating with Mossad intelligence and extraction of IRGC leadership, I would be very reticent to try that again... But I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump decides he’s gonna pull that off.” (10:39)

• The focus has shifted from grand goals (regime change, ending Iran’s proxy wars) to a narrow, dangerous “game of chicken” over the Strait of Hormuz, with Iran seemingly in the driver’s seat as the U.S. sends mixed and blustering signals.

  “It’s all about what is a feasible quick win at this point, because the long game... we don’t talk about any of that anymore. We talk about the Strait of Hormuz. That’s it.” (12:26)

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2. Spirit Airlines Bankruptcy and the American Approach to Failure

[18:10–25:06]

Propping Up Failed Companies

• Scott Galloway rails against the repeated government bailouts of failing airlines:

  “Bankruptcy is a feature, not a bug, in the United States... For some reason, we’ve identified airlines as some sort of precious industry that we should bail out. Burn, baby, burn. These companies should go out of business.” (18:33–19:23)

• He contrasts the U.S. entrepreneurial spirit with Europe’s more conservative approach to bankruptcy, arguing that America’s willingness to grant second chances is key to its economic dynamism.

The Trump Bankruptcy Ethos

• Jessica Tarlov playfully asks,

  “Does this mean that Donald Trump is like a secret genius for going bankrupt, like, seven or eight times?” (21:26)

• Galloway dismisses Trump's business acumen:

  “Yeah, he's a terrible business person. He just does not understand how to build businesses. He's led a trail of bankruptcies and of unpaid subcontractors.” (21:55–22:40)

• The segment ultimately casts government bailouts as “croniest autocratic bullshit,” equating it with the Republican party’s hypocrisy on capitalism.

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3. Leadership Transitions: Apple, Aging Politicians, and Lessons on Exiting Gracefully

[25:06–31:26]

Tim Cook’s Retirement: Learning from the Best Successor in History

• Jessica Tarlov introduces the news of Tim Cook stepping down as Apple’s CEO.

• Galloway lavishly praises Cook:

  “Tim Cook will go down as the greatest or the most successful successor in history... Tim Cook added more shareholder value than any CEO in history with maybe with the exception of Jensen Huang.” (25:19–26:43) “The iPhone is effectively the margins of Ferrari with the production volumes of Toyota. And it’s the most profitable producer of gross margin dollars of any product in history.” (27:06)

• Guest Analyst provides context on Apple’s supply chain, product success, and Cook’s operational brilliance.

• The new CEO, Turnus, is framed as a product-focused leader with meaningful engineering and management support—a symbolic return to Apple’s roots.

  “It’s so much better to leave a little bit early than a little bit late. You know, Tim Cook could go another five years as CEO and the board would have no choice... Instead, he’s leaving a little early. And that’s a lesson for all of us. There’s a dignity in exiting stage left when the audience is still clapping.” (29:25–30:37)

U.S. Politics and the Problem of Leaders Who Stay Too Long

• Jessica Tarlov abruptly pivots to the news of another elderly Democratic congressperson dying in office:

  “It’s now, I think, the fourth Democrat that’s died in office since the onset of the second Trump term... you don’t need to be in office at 80 years old. Pave the way for the new generation. People need to leave their jobs.” (30:37)

• Galloway quips:

  “Well, that’s one way to leave. Feet first.” (31:17)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I don’t understand how firing on ships is not a violation of the ceasefire. It feels like we are also not spending enough time talking about the conflict within the IRGC...” — Jessica Tarlov (03:20)
• “Winning is surviving... they don’t have to win.” — Scott Galloway (06:15)
• “It’s getting to the point where it’s such a shit show that I worry that Americans, the world, are becoming somewhat immune to it or confused or exhausted by it...” — Guest Analyst (09:46)
• “We’re not supposed to be there and certainly not in any kind of forever war.” — Jessica Tarlov (13:48)
• “If you believe in capitalism on the way up and socialism on the way down, that’s neither. That’s called cronyism. So Spirit Airlines, burn, fucking baby, burn. Go bankrupt and emerge a stronger company.” — Scott Galloway (19:09)
• “There’s a dignity in exiting stage left when the audience is still clapping.” — Scott Galloway on Tim Cook (30:30)
• “You don’t need to be in office at 80 years old... People need to leave their jobs.” — Jessica Tarlov (30:37)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Start – End | |-------------------------------------------|----------------------| | Strait of Hormuz Crisis & Iran Strategy | 01:55 – 15:04 | | Spirit Airlines & Bankruptcy Culture | 18:10 – 25:06 | | Tim Cook’s Apple Legacy & Turnus Era | 25:11 – 30:37 | | Age in American Politics | 30:37 – 31:26 |

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Conclusion

Scott and Jessica deliver a blend of urgent analysis, dry humor, and unflinching critique as they dissect extremes in American foreign policy, the strange incentives reinforcing economic “zombies,” and the importance of leadership transitions—both in Silicon Valley and in the halls of Congress. In keeping with their “raging moderate” stance, they offer neither apologia nor doomsaying but demand honesty, accountability, and a return to realistic, pragmatic strategy—at home and abroad.

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Transcript

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[Scott Galloway]

Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Scott Galloway.

[Jessica Tarlev]

And I'm Jessica Tarlev.

[Scott Galloway]

If you aren't already, please make sure to subscribe to our YouTube page to stay up to date on all the news politics. All right, let's get into it. A day after President Trump extended a ceasefire, tensions in the Middle east are flaring again in one of the world's most critical choke points, the Pentagon says US Forces have boarded a second sanctioned tanker in the Indian Ocean carrying oil from Iran. At the same time, Trump posted that he's ordered the Navy to shoot and kill any boat. You can kill a boat in the Strait of Hormuz that is laying mines, adding that US Minesweepers are already clearing the passage. The escalation follows claims from the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps that it sees two cargo ships near the strait, while UK Maritime monitors report gunfire and attacks on commercial vessels in the same area. Notably, the White House has said that these seizures do not Violate the ceasefire. And all of this is now unfolding amid fresh turmoil inside of the Pentagon. Navy Secretary John Phelan was abruptly fired after months of infighting with senior defense officials, including Defense Secretary Pete Hagseth. Turmoil that comes as the Navy is actively engaged in the standoff with Iran. Jesus. I mean, it is, it is so nuts. Say more, Jess.

[Jessica Tarlev]

It's so nuts. Can I just repeat that for half an hour?

[Scott Galloway]

Sure.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I mean, it's, it's confusing. It's nuts. And mixed signals is, you know, too generous of a term for what we're getting here. But we are basically at a point where you can't take anything that the President is saying about this. And I'm sure people immediately are going to be like, of course you can't take the President seriously about anything. This has been the problem forever. But, like, where there is not even a kernel of truth breaking through in any of these truth social posts. Like, I don't. The FT reports that 34 Iranian linked tankers have gotten through and we're saying that the blockade is still in place. I don't understand how that's possible. I don't understand how firing on ships is not a violation of the ceasefire. It feels like we are also not spending enough time talking about the conflict within the IRGC and the different groups that are vying for power right now, and the hardliners versus the negotiating team who is still part of this, that did the 2015 JCPOA. I mean, the Iranians are definitely getting the message that they've got time. I think that I should have led with that and not my second. This is nuts because we have not. I don't want to use taco because, like, this is, you know, too big of a deal when you talk about destroying civilizations to just say taco. But Trump has been bluffing a lot and they are calling all of his bluffs and it has ended up generally being fine for them. All things considered here, I, I don't know if we're going to get back to the air campaign or maybe we're going to use some of the thousands of troops. I mean, we're moving tons of carriers still into the region, many more soldiers, Marines showing up for this. But are we actually going to do anything using military force to try to properly reopen the straight that is still on offer? I guess it's an opportunity that we could take in all of this. I would love to hear more about that. What that would actually require. I'm not saying ask for our permission, but it Feels like we are getting absolutely no updates at this point. The one thing that they did do, though, there was a Pentagon briefing from lawmakers and the Washington Post had the exclusive on this. What came out of it, that it could take up to six months to clear all the mines out of the Strait. So you are talking about a global oil shock that cannot be reversed when you, you know, flip that switch back on. Right. This is going to take months, if not years to fix. And I'm not even talking about, like, what goes on at our pump. Right. Like Lufthansa isn't flying. I'm sure. I know you're in Europe. Well, you're not sad that you're not in Europe anymore, but you know what I mean? You are abroad. So you know about what's going on with the jet fuel concerns. It's a disaster. What's going on here. That was very convoluted. I'm sorry.

[Scott Galloway]

That's all right. Well, the whole thing is convoluted. I'm having trouble trying to determine who sees what ship. What does it mean? The energy markets will be roiled for years because now priced into these markets are the fact that, you know, not even closing the Strait of Hormuz, but threatening to close the Strait of Hormuz can sequester 11% of the world's oil market, which is just going to create insecurity around the energy market and also massively benefit China, who has somewhere between 60 and 80% of EV solar panel windmill production. David Ignatius said something I thought that was really insightful. He said that whether it was the Americans during the Revolutionary War, the Taliban, you know, the IRGC here, essentially all they need to do is survive. They don't have to win. Winning is surviving. So a group of people who are willing to kill 30,000 of their own citizens and quite frankly, just don't have the glass jaw of America. We talk about losing 14 servicemen, which is a tragedy for them and their families. They're willing to kill 30,000 of their own citizens. Russia is willing to throw a thousand men a day into a meat grinder. And they have what feels like more of an iron grip on the populace than we had initially anticipated, at least at the outset of this war. So all they need to do to win is to survive. I do believe that blocking the ports in Iran does create a real threat to Iran. And that is probably indicative of what we probably should have continued to do. And that is the way to go after the IRGC is through money. If the irgc, the way the IRGC maintains control over its population is that there are literally millions of families who are integrated into the economy of the IRGC who control all of the oil and all of the state run companies. And so if you're dependent upon your livelihood, you're just less likely to riot. And if that money or those checks stop clearing or you can no longer cash a check, that's when people start talking about revolution. And so not enabling or blocking the ability to offload oil.

[Guest Analyst]

And the interesting thing I didn't know

[Scott Galloway]

about oil infrastructure is that if you make it such that the oil has nowhere to go, it can actually queer the oil well. Yeah, it can basically stop up the oil well and ruin it. I didn't realize that the oil has to go somewhere, otherwise the pressure builds up and it can actually reverse engineer

[Guest Analyst]

back to the, I guess, whatever, use

[Jessica Tarlev]

it or lose it. And it's an eight week pump it timeline.

[Scott Galloway]

Pump it or lose it.

[Guest Analyst]

Yeah, pump it, distribute it or lose it.

[Scott Galloway]

And not only that, you also not

[Guest Analyst]

only lose the oil, you might lose the means of production. It backs up and it explodes. It's very difficult to tell what and where this goes. The market is saying that this is coming to an end. And yet there doesn't appear to be any diplomatic crossover here. There doesn't appear to be any reasonable level headed players, any diplomacy, any of the good work that our diplomats do to try and take the temperature down. The President in a ridiculous statement saying that the seizure of two ships is not a violation of the ceasefire. That's an act of war. That's a total, that's a blatant act of war from one nation to another when you seize vessels in what's supposed to be international waters. So nothing he says has any credibility. The firing of the Navy Secretary, who cares? This guy was an incompetent. He had almost no authority over.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Trump donor. Yeah, yeah.

[Guest Analyst]

He had almost no authority over how the Navy actually operated other than some logistics and administrative duties.

[Scott Galloway]

Fine.

[Guest Analyst]

It does also, you know, sure, it does reflect continued chaos here, but this is, it's getting to the point where it's such a shit show that I worry that Americans, the world are becoming somewhat immune to it or confused or

[Scott Galloway]

exhausted by it, but it does feel like this is definitely a clown car. The IRGC realizes every day this goes on, they get fatigued. It's like, what is it Ho Chi Minh said describing the war? He said, we will kill some of theirs, they will kill a lot of ours, they will tire and they will go home. I mean, that's effectively what's happening here. The IRGC has said, yeah, they can take out a lot of our infrastructure, they can kill a lot of our people, but they're going to tire and go home. What is a non zero probability? That would be very dramatic and I think is being seriously considered is Trump loved the Maduro extraction.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yes.

[Scott Galloway]

And I wonder. I think it would be shocking, but not surprising, as is most. As I think is the best way to describe the Trump administration tenure. If they tried to pull off coordinating with Mossad intelligence and extraction of IRGC leadership, I would be very reticent to try that again because, you know, there's only so many times you get really lucky. And that operation, while demonstrating incredible excellence, military excellence, there had to be a lot of luck involved in that. But I wouldn't be surprised if Trump decides he's gonna pull that off and then trying to stick your head even further up your ass and create. Okay, let's. Let's move further and further down the weirdness channel. He says on Air Force One, Cuba is next.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah.

[Scott Galloway]

So anyways, I'll stop there. Any, any comments on this before we move on?

[Jessica Tarlev]

Well, the Cuba thing's been going on for a couple of weeks, and I think that that was the marker of. The toddler in chief is bored. Right. So now he's got to talk about something else and also something that I can accomplish much more easily. I think you could be right about wanting to extract some leadership because we know how he loves to have proverbial heads on his wall. But it's all about what is a feasible quick win at this point, because the long game wins, which is what we were told this was actually about, you know, totally dismantling their nuclear program, regime change, freeing the people of Iran, making sure that they don't support proxy terror forces in the region. We don't talk about any of that anymore. We talk about the Strait of Hormuz. That's it. The thing that was wide open before all of this happened, and that the RRGC was never charging for it. Right. It was just a free waterway, and that has become the lynchpin of this conflict. And I do think, going back to what I was saying about the bluffing and not taking him seriously, that Trump is now saying there is no time frame for negotiations. What a gift to the Iranians. But what a headache for the Pakistanis that seem to be wanting to actually help a negotiation in some degree of good faith here. Because when you live by stringent deadlines, at least you can get people to Islamabad. But Iran is calling the shots on when they even meet. Right. They were supposed to go. It was J.D. vance was going to get on the plane and head over there. And then the Iranians weren't going to show up for it. And then, of course, they made another great, you know, AI Slope video mocking our side first. Basically sitting at the table waiting for them to come. Because Trump even said he was taking another victory lap, like, oh, you know, I might go sign the deal. Right. I might go over to Islamabad if. If we're going to have a deal. And it's the perfect framing for them to be able to say, your narrative is wrong. Your military is more powerful than ours, for sure, but we're in control of this thing that you can't live without the Strait of Hormuz, and you have someone in charge of your country that wants this more than we do at this point. That doesn't go on forever. You're totally right about the oil and needing to pump it. The estimates are that they can go about eight weeks.

[Scott Galloway]

Is that right?

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah. Before having to extract it in some way. And that's a big deal because that. That's their money. But every time that this gets extended, three to five days maybe, there's no limit at all. It's more opportunity to confab with the Russians and the Chinese and figure out how to get out of this without surrendering as much as possible. And there are leaks. I mean, the White House is like a sieve right now. When you read these stories, specifically about how much of the ballistic missile capabilities the Iranians still have, 50% plus, apparently. They told us it was completely decimated. Big parts of the irgc Navy is actually still intact. That was not what we were told. Right. This was like Fordeau back, you know, last summer. Complete obliteration. So what. What are we leaving with them if we get out? I think we all agree that that's in our best interest. I'm not saying necessarily in the Chris Murphy sense of, like, we're going to pack our toys and go tomorrow. But we all agree, like, we're not supposed to be there and certainly not in any kind of forever war. So we're just talking about in a couple of years, they're going to be back to no good, potentially.

[Scott Galloway]

Everything I learned about the oil and gas industry, I learned from Landman. And essentially, I can tell you I've

[Jessica Tarlev]

heard great things about that show.

[Scott Galloway]

It's great. It really is great. It's very dangerous. People die, and there's a ton of hot people everywhere. So it's a great series and I really enjoy it. And my favorite is going off script here, Sam Elliott. I think he's a fantastic actor, great voice. But anyways, if you want to know more about oil and gas in West Texas, watch, watch Landman. All right, let's move on. Okay, let's take a quick break. Stay with us. This message comes from Betterment Dan Egan,

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[Scott Galloway]

Welcome back. Spirit Airlines is an advanced talk to skipped a 500 million government backed loan from the Trump administration and a last ditch effort to avoid collapse after its second bankruptcy in two years. The deal could also give Washington senior

[Guest Analyst]

claims on the airline's assets, deepening federal

[Scott Galloway]

involvement in yet another private sector rescue, and rising fuel costs and ongoing industry stress. Do you mind if I go first here, Jess?

[Jessica Tarlev]

No, I would welcome it. I was going to say I want to hear what you have to say.

[Scott Galloway]

So bankruptcy is a feature, not a bug, in the United States. And one of the great things about America is our risk profile. And that is we encourage people to be aggressive, put capital to a crazy idea, be aggressive, which results in higher returns, but also the risks are substantial.

[Guest Analyst]

And in the US we have this

[Scott Galloway]

wonderful zeitgeist, philosophically of second chances that

[Guest Analyst]

if I had been raised in Europe,

[Scott Galloway]

I would not be in the position I'm in right now because I've had several businesses fail.

[Guest Analyst]

But I've always been able.

[Scott Galloway]

As long as you're a good person and you try hard, you have a

[Guest Analyst]

very good chance of being able to raise money and hire new people again. I'm not sure that's the same in Europe. I think it's kind of one straight strike and you're out. Or at least that's the way it's been. Traditionally, the corporate legal embodiment of that is bankruptcy law, where, all right, you get out over your skis and your obligations are greater than your assets, you declare bankruptcy, the equity gets wiped out, but the assets are repackaged to new investors. And that's the whole point of capitalism, is that we let businesses go out of business. And when you don't let businesses go out of business, you end up with businesses who do everything they can to stay in business being less competitive and making less money. And for some reason, we've identified airlines as some sort of precious industry that we should bail out. We did this during COVID when the CEOs of three airlines took $150 million in additional compensation by using all of their free cash flow when times were good, in pre Covid times to buy back stock, artificially inflating the stock and increasing their compensation. And then when shit gets real and the airline industry shuts down because of COVID they all decide we're fucking socialists and go running hat in hand to America, saying shit like, we're all in this together. Fuck that. Burn, baby, burn. These companies should go out of business. They should be repackaged. They should absolutely rationalize their cost structure, their employee base, sell the planes and the routes and the gates that aren't making any money, and emerge as a stronger company. And yet we keep propping up these fucking industries. If you either. If you believe in capitalism on the way up and socialism on the way down, that's neither. That's called cronyism. So Spirit Airlines, burn, fucking baby, burn. Go bankrupt and emerge a stronger company. And there are dozens of companies that are much more important, much better companies in spirit, who we will let go bankrupt because they're not seen as American icons. The airline industry, for some reason, garners this affection. No, let it go out of business. Let the vulture investors come in. They serve a purpose. I have taken companies through bankruptcy. I've invested in companies that have gone bankruptcy. And it is a really productive system for strengthening and for refurbishing and for rejuvenating and giving companies a second life. When you keep propping up companies that don't deserve to survive, you just create a bunch of zombie companies. This is another example of this croniest autocratic bullshit. Turn away from capitalism. That is the Republican Party.

[Scott Galloway]

That's my TED Talk.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I like it. Does this mean, though, that Donald Trump is like a secret genius for going bankrupt, like, seven or eight times?

[Scott Galloway]

Well, no, he didn't want to go bankrupt, but he kept using it as a means to get out of his debts. What it shows is that, I mean, Donald Trump, it's just amazing how he's been able to reinvent his brand. If Donald Trump had taken his inheritance from his father and just invested it in spy and played golf at the time, he'd be wealthier than he was, you know, with the exception of the crypto fraud he's managed to pull off, so.

[Jessica Tarlev]

And we'd be a lot safer.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, he's a terrible business person. I mean, he just does not understand how to build businesses. He's led a trail of bankruptcies and of unpaid subcontractors. In certain instances, his companies didn't go chapter 11. Chapter 11 is when you. You wipe out your equity holders, but your debt holders then seize the assets and try and repackage it. And they have license not to pay their bills in the short term. They have license to get out of contracts. So, for example, when a retailer goes bankrupt, it's actually great for retailers because they can then go break all their leases and reemerge from bankruptcy with the stores that actually work. So a lot of companies emerge from bankruptcy stronger than they went in. It's a great, it's a great system. What he did in oftentimes was fuck up a company or a casino so bad that nobody wanted it.

[Guest Analyst]

It was like, there's nothing here.

[Scott Galloway]

Let's just put a, let's just put a lock on the door and everyone is told to go home. What was especially gross about his bankruptcies is he knew he was going bankrupt or there were signals and stopped paying as subcontractors. And these people really got these small and medium sized businesses really got fucked. But anyways, one of the wonderful things about the US is we believe in winners and losers. We need full body contact violence at a corporate level such that we can create tax revenue such that we can be a little bit more of an empathetic government to the citizens. Corporations are not people.

[Guest Analyst]

Spirit Airlines, if it goes out of business, it's gonna, you know, no one's gonna cry, there's not gonna be a funeral.

[Scott Galloway]

And in five years there's a better

[Guest Analyst]

chance that it can continue hiring and offering, you know, charging people 25 cents

[Scott Galloway]

to go to the bathroom or whatever

[Guest Analyst]

it is they do on Spirit Airlines.

[Scott Galloway]

That's probably not fair. That's a, that's EasyJet, isn't it? Anyways, I can't remember EasyJet.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Definitely. I remember it was Ryanair when I lived abroad that like tried out like even paying for toilet paper. And I was like, I can't abide

[Scott Galloway]

by this, I can't do that.

[Jessica Tarlev]

You know. But on the spirit front, you know, the descent into state run capitalism that the Republican party is just quietly abiding by is really astounding to me because this does feel like one of the spots where you could offer a little bit of pushback, right? Like, oh, why is the government own 10% of Intel? I mean it was my understanding that there was a potential merger on the table with JetBlue for first spirit and that got vetoed on monopoly grounds. But it seems like a much smaller fish than like Paramount, Warner Brothers or other mergers that we've seen go through with much broader implications. Do you think that there will be any level of concerted pushback? I mean, we haven't seen it yet. There's kind of grumblings when, you know, people have been catching elected says they're you know, running around and say like what do you think about this? And they're like, I haven't read the details, you know, but they Know, fundamentally what this is, it's a, a pattern of behavior. And also, you know, your antenna goes up that there's got to be a way that he's going to personally profit off of this. I mean, this man is suing his own irs, or I should say our own. But he treats everything just like it's his pet toy for like $10 billion. So where is the kickback coming from? This. It's got to be in there somewhere.

[Scott Galloway]

Yeah, I agree with you. Should we talk about Apple? What do you want to talk about?

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah. Yes. I would love to hear what you think about it. Huge news that Tim Cook is stepping down from Apple.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, Tim Cook will go down as the greatest or the most successful successor in history. He didn't have to feel big shoes. He had to feel the Jesus Frock. In the 80s and 90s in America, we transitioned from the idolatry of athletes and our government leaders and our military heroes to the idolatry of tech innovators and billionaires. And the new Jesus Christ was Steve Jobs. And we just decided that these guys, because to a certain extent, technology is the closest thing we have to magic. Most people just don't understand how their phone works. And then you couple that with billions of dollars in articulate, interesting people and you have your new Jesus Christ.

[Guest Analyst]

And he was that, despite the fact

[Scott Galloway]

that he denied his own blood under oath to avoid child support payments. But that's neither here nor there.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I didn't know that.

[Scott Galloway]

But he grew. This incredible innovator, grew the company from 0 to 300 billion. Okay, Tim Cook 10x the company's value. I mean, Tim Cook added more shareholder value than any CEO in history with maybe with the exception of Jensen Huang. On an operational level, it's the boring shit that matters. And he did some incredible things. Again, see above. First ballot hall of fame for business one. He built the most robust commercial supply chain in history. He managed to figure out a way to collapse or combine the advanced manufacturing technology of China with its low labor costs and create a 2000 part supercomputer called the iPhone for $400 in manufacturing costs.

[Guest Analyst]

Whereas if he'd done it anywhere else in the west, it would have cost

[Scott Galloway]

two or three thousand dollars.

[Guest Analyst]

And then the iPhone itself is the

[Scott Galloway]

most successful single product in history.

[Guest Analyst]

As indicated by.

[Scott Galloway]

Products are usually one of two things.

[Guest Analyst]

They're either very differentiated and high margin Ferrari or Hermes. Or they're lower margin and lower costs and get huge shares. See above Toyota. The iPhone is effectively the margins of

[Scott Galloway]

Ferrari with the production volumes of Toyota

[Guest Analyst]

and it's the most profitable producer of gross margin dollars of any product in history.

[Scott Galloway]

And people criticize Tim Cook for not being an innovator around new products.

[Guest Analyst]

But one they leave out what is my favorite tech product in history? The AirPods, which on their own would be a Fortune 50 company. And rather than coming up with new gizmos and new devices, he said I'm going to take this thing called the iPhone and basically turn it into a supercomputer where you can pay from it, listen to music, consume media and sustain the margins on the best product ever. This guy, I mean, quiet, I think he handled himself with a lot of grace. Built a great team. There was never any shitposting or secret memos or people going on background. A great culture. Hired over 100,000 people during his tenure.

[Scott Galloway]

Average compensation of an Apple employee in

[Guest Analyst]

the US is $210,000. Outsource the manufacturing to China. Nobody in the US wants to manufacture screwing iPhones. So Tim Cook, I mean my God, this guy can ring the bell of success the size of Sistine Chapel or wherever. They have a really big fucking bell, this guy. From a business standpoint, just incredible. Also another gangster move.

[Scott Galloway]

While Jobs came up with the idea but, but Cook executed was he saw that the decline in broadcast media as a, as it related to pre purchase branding, they were spending billions. He transitioned seven and a half billion dollars a year out of pre purchased advertising into distribution and built these 450 temples to the brand called Apple Stores. Think of another distribution vehicle that is a fraction of the aspirational value of an Apple store. Go into a Verizon, go into an AT and T store, go into a Samsung store and you're going to see a guy with a name tag named Roy in bad lighting and bad carpeting. And then you go into an Apple store and you think I would really like to live here. If Apple opened a coffee bar in its stores, it would be the highest growing real estate. But here's the thing. Apple stores are already the highest grossing per square foot real estate, having surpassed Tiffany in the odds. Distribution, incredible products, a great culture and 10x on shareholder value. Most successful successor in history.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Awesome. And what do you think about Turnus, the new guy?

[Scott Galloway]

I don't know that much about him, but the thing that sounds really compelling about him and they're already manicuring his image is that he like he's the kind of guy who builds go karts. He's a product guy, which is interesting. The services business which grew to over $100 billion. There was rumors that they were going to bring someone out of the services business, itunes or Apple TV Plus. But he's clearly a product guy. And I think they've decided that hardware is our soul and is at the base of what we do. But for all intents and purposes, he started in the face recognition area. He immediately rose as a product manager and engineer that people just really enjoyed working with. He had huge internal support, so it seems like a great choice. And also kudos to Tim Cook. I always like to reverse engineer this to a personal learning. It's so much better to leave a little bit early than a little bit late. You know, Tim Cook could go another five years as CEO and the board would have no choice and embrace him and say, jesus, this guy's a God. Of course you can stay as long as you need to or want to. Instead, he's leaving a little early. And that's a lesson for all of us. There's a dignity in exiting stage left when the audience is still clapping. Anyways, just a historic run.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, make them miss you. And we are discussing this. The day after another Democratic congressperson died in office. Representative David Scott of Georgia, 80 years old. There had been pushes to get him to retire. It's now, I think, the fourth Democrat that's died in office since the onset of the second Trump term. And it's unacceptable. You know, I mean, I feel terrible. I should have led with that. I feel terrible that somebody passed away. But also, you don't need to be in office at 80 years old. Like that. Pave the way for the new generation. People need to leave their jobs.

[Scott Galloway]

Well, that's one way to leave feet first.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, I didn't. I didn't. Maybe that was like a cruel thing to say about it, but it was on my mind from last night and.

[Scott Galloway]

Oh, yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Anyway, before we go, a reminder that Raging Moderates is now on Substack subscribers get ad free episodes. I have a lot of friends that are doing this now. They are thrilled about the lack of ads. Um, it's a great place to connect with me and Scott and the whole Prof. G. Community. Our newsletter is there. It's called the Monday Rage. I think it's really good. We've gotten good feedback. I hope you guys like it if you're over there. If not, sign up on Substack. Um, plus, we're going to be doing some more live streams that'll only be viewable to our Substack subscribers. Find us at ragingmoderates.prof.gmedia.com that's all for this episode. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[Scott Galloway]

Great. Let's leave it there.

[Jessica Tarlev]

See you soon.

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My head hurts.

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[Jessica Tarlev]

Aha.

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