← Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
Trump Axes Bondi… and Pete Hegseth’s Military Purge Sparks Outrage
00:36:25
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- [00:00]
A
Where does President Trump's speech leave us with regard to where the war is headed? And it really was, to me, the story of the commander in chief who, weeks into this war, is deeply uncertain about how it ends. I'm John Finer, co host of the Long Game podcast. This week, Jake Sullivan and I break down the president's speech and discuss what it's like to negotiate with the Iranians. We will also debate whether Iran should accept a deal. The episode is out now. Search and follow the Long Game Wherever you get your podcasts, You can tell a lot about a person by their accent. I really do say I park my cat and have a yard. Everyone around here says, like a coffee and dwog.
- [00:46]
B
We're so attached to the way that we sound because it tells a part of the story of who we are.
- [00:51]
A
Your accent decoded. That's this week on Explain It To Me. Find new episodes Sundays. Wherever you get your podcast. Wharton Professor Ethan Malik says that with AI, his students are doing a semester's worth of work in just a couple of days. In Moloch's classroom, AI is required. I'm Henry Blodgett, and this week on Solutions, I talk to Professor Malik about how he's radically transformed how he teaches and how he continues to test the boundaries of what AI can and cannot do. Follow Solutions with Henry Blodgett to hear our conversation.
- [01:36]
B
Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlov, and it's been a very chaotic week in politics. Lot to unpack and no one that I would rather unpack with. Like, in a proverbial sense, then. Jack Cottrella, thank you for coming back to Raging Moderates.
- [01:51]
C
Thank you for having me. I will caveat that last night might have been thirsty Thursday and I might have done karaoke. So if my voice gets progressively worse during this episode, that is why. But our analysis will still be sharp.
- [02:04]
B
Yeah, I mean, I have a deeply flawed voice. A voice not for TV or for radio, according to the majority of the algorithm since birth.
- [02:12]
C
I think that's not true. Do not say that to yourself.
- [02:14]
B
Oh, that's sweet. Okay, you're right. I'm amazing. If you aren't already, make sure to subscribe to our YouTube page to stay in the loop on all the political news. All right, I want to talk Pam Bondi first. Did you see the story about the drive over to the Supreme Court where she apparently begged to be able to stay on the job until the summer? And he was like, your time is up.
- [02:36]
C
I did. And it's all like all the funnier because yesterday or two days ago, I talked about how Pam Bondi's team was kind of floating that, no, there's no possibility that they could be in breakup mode because they drove to the Supreme Court together and sat next to each other as Donald Trump was so furious that he had to leave early. And they knew, like, they knew that Pam Bondi had already been fired on Wednesday. So it's. It's funny that this whole time at the DOJ has just been lie after lie after lie up until the very end, in which they lied about the lies that got her fired. So I just think it's funny, the idea of Pam Bondi begging to keep her job and is also hilarious. I don't know what that looks like. I tweeted out and there were a lot of great tweets yesterday. I was like, did she mention the Dow? Did she. Did she tell Trump that the dow was over 50,000? I would love to know what that conversation looked like.
- [03:30]
B
Well, I think the high point of yesterday, I mean, the tweets were good about Bondi and, like, the Epstein files, but revisiting the Dow moment and then noting that she said the dow is at $50,000, because I feel like that was really lost in the swirl around when she originally said it. Beside, you know, like, because everyone thought she said points, but she said dollars. So I just wanted to put that out there. I don't know exactly what her case for Let me go until the summer is. I mean, she's the shortest tenured Attorney general since the 1970s, so maybe she would have been more of a cusper if she made it to the summer. But, you know, Trump saying she's transitioning to a job in the private sector is just like, go get a job. Right? It's not Kristi Noem with the Shield of America or whatever.
- [04:22]
C
Shield of America, The Shield of the justice of the Americas, of protective freedom. Is that what we're going to put Pam Bondi at? Who wants to hire Pam Bondi, though? What is the experience that she has pedophile protection? Like, who is she going to work for next? Is she. Maybe she can become a lawyer for Ghislaine Maxwell. Maybe that'll be a great job for Pam Bondi. She kind of already is, so maybe that's where she's plugging in.
- [04:44]
B
What's more concerning is the guy who actually seemed more like the lawyer for Ghislaine Maxwell is the one who's now the interim ag, Todd Blanche, who got her into the cushy prison and told us that we should basically treat her like a legitimate witness. What do you think it was about Bondi that pushed Trump to end up doing this? Because the Epstein stuff has been a cascading nightmare for 8 to 12 months essentially at this point. So, I mean, the Swalwell story apparently doesn't have legs so that it's not the case that she tipped him off about an investigation into his ties to a Chinese spy. But what do you think it was?
- [05:27]
C
It is funny to say, but that she's not corrupt enough for Donald Trump or maybe that she's not corrupt enough. I talked about how I can't imagine she doesn't have the stomach to carry out all the Epstein corruption to go after Donald Trump's political opponents because she is a horrible person and all of these people are. But you really have to wonder, you know, everyone in that, in that cabinet, in, in those meetings is doing the ass kissing, but Pam Bondi probably has the most difficult job in living up to it. Right. You know, like they just have to go in there and talk and say Dear Leader is great. But when Pam Bondi is doing her. Yes, sir, of course, sir. You know we're going to prosecute Barack Obama, sir. She then has the hardest responsibility in like carrying out the Donald Trump pipe dreams. So maybe just her, you know, like yes, man nature caught up to her or Donald Trump was just sick of seeing her fail on tv. And I think that's what it comes down to mostly. Like if we viewed this from the start as a, no offense, Fox News administration and it's just, how can I hire the most like pseudo telegenic people who can just go on and talk or propagandize then at the point in which you can't do that anymore, you're no longer useful to the administration. How many months ago was it that Blanche kind of became the face of talking about Epstein or talking about anything at the doj? When was the last time that Pam Bondi gave a press conference without Todd Blanche? He's the one who goes on Meet the Press. He's the one who goes on any adversarial show. And it seemed like last night Jesse was a bit of an adversarial show, which was crazy.
- [07:05]
B
Yeah.
- [07:05]
C
But I think that that is the reason is that he knew that she could not carry out the corruption that he wanted. Not because, like she wouldn't do it, but maybe because she over perform, over promised, hoping to keep her job. But I know we're going to talk about Blanche And I may get a. I may get a little conspiratorial when we're talking about Blanche, but to me, it signals that something really big is coming. And he just doesn't trust her to be the public face of it.
- [07:32]
B
All right, well, lay it on me. Go, tinfoil hat. Six minutes and 42 seconds into the episode.
- [07:37]
C
This was my conspiracy yesterday, like, right away, because we saw that fired FBI agent is also floating cash. Patel is probably next. That might be imminent. We see Donald Trump give a speech of a whole bunch of nothing on the same day that he tells Pam Bondi she's going to be fired. It is a. We were in Vietnam for 19 years. Wars last a long time. Maybe this one will end, but maybe we'll blow shit up. And then he blows shit up. The next morning, the biggest bridge in Iran, devastating civilian infrastructure, committing war crimes. And I think that what Donald Trump probably wants to do with the Epstein files is give a nice two month push of pushing everything else out. And I know Blanche last night said, we're done, we're finished. And by the way, is it just me? Does he not look like a stupid cartoon dog to you? Like he has stupid cartoon dog face? I don't know if anyone else has noticed that, but Blanche says, okay, we're not gonna put anything else out. And he said that a couple months ago. But I think that that's not actually the case, that there may be a few more dumps that they have left in them. And Trump wants to do two months of that or two weeks or three, or whatever it is at the same time that he is escalating his war on Iran. Maybe we're doing ground troops. Maybe something else happens that he thinks can keep the media's attention. Because as we know, Steve Bannon's whole strategy for the existence of Donald Trump was just throw as much shit at them as possible. They cannot talk about it all. So maybe Todd Blanche, the person who Donald Trump trusts most to do this stuff and who he sees maybe as suitable public face, is the person who in his interim period tries to take care of the rest of it. Then he fires Cash Patel. Then Blanche moves on as well. He plugs someone new in and then says, well, you can't ask this guy any questions because we already did it all and it's done and now it's over and we move on. And maybe the media goes for that and they buy and they stop talking about it. I certainly won't. But maybe that is like some sort of strategy of why he's going to put Blanche in for a little bit. I think that there is going to be something more that comes, whether it be more interviews and subpoenas from the Oversight Committee or whether they think that they have to dump something and they want to do it now instead of after the midterms, where Democrats have more ability to bring attention to it. That's kind of my thought of what the next two months are going to look like. We're ramping up in Iran to distract from whatever's coming next on Epstein. Tinfoil hat.
- [09:54]
B
No, I don't think it's that crazy. I mean, there are a lot of very sane people who feel the same way that you do. Like Heather Cox Richardson. Yeah. Like talking about this. Not well.
- [10:06]
C
Well, yeah.
- [10:07]
B
Then we're all insane, which I do think is partially the story of the Trump era, that it has made typically sane people insane. I think that there certainly could be a connection. I think that having your personal lawyer, which is what Todd Blanche was as your attorney general, is a new phase in this. And the fact that Donald Trump committed to nothing in that speech, that primetime address, which was a total waste of time, does give him tremendous leeway for a ground invasion, which is what the betting market certainly think is coming our way. I wanted to ask you about the other firings as well, or potential firings. So it's been rumored. Cash Patel, Tulsi Gabbard, Howard Lutnick, the Labor secretary. Do you think that there will be a complete, complete house cleaning, or you think this is the ragtag team until we get closer to the midterms? And then if it's a bad result, he can just say, like, everybody sucks. We need a whole new round of staffing.
- [11:08]
C
So I struggle to believe that if the win. I don't want to say if anymore. When the midterms go poorly, he'll say, like, it's time. It's time for a revamp. Like, like, let's fix things up. Because, like, what is he going to be fixing? Right. He's not going to be doing anything. He's already a lame duck at this point. I think that Tulsi Gabbard could get fired. Fired. Certainly. We just, we're gonna round up all the women and cricket them, apparently in this administration, which is pretty funny. That, that, that has been the, that has been the lane that Donald Trump has occupied. I, I don't know if Lutnick goes. I think that's probably too much attention on Epstein if he does that. But the fact that this is even coming out. It's just an administration that is in constant state of leaking right now.
- [11:50]
B
And I think that's so leaking, which he hates. Which he hates more than anything.
- [11:55]
C
And I think that, like all of this and it. And Thomas Massie has done a good job on it, kind of lends itself to something that I think has been coming for a while now, which is maybe a little bit of Republican collective action. And I say that not because I think these people have a backbone or that they're going to wake up one day and turn and go, maybe this stuff was bad. Maybe. Maybe we should stop. But if you look at Tucker Carlson and you look at Megyn Kelly and you look at Candace Owens and you look at the falling subscribers of Ben Shapiro, and I know maybe not everyone is as tapped in on, you know, independent media as us, but you kind of have to think to yourself, hmm, what is the direction that the base is going in? Maybe it's a little adversarial to the administration, and everyone in Donald Trump's cabinet is getting fired, and everything is kind of out of control over there. And maybe he doesn't have his eye on the ball. And if I want to save myself, maybe I have to start pushing back a little bit. It's not going to be pushed back against Trump because none of these people will do that. It drives me crazy when they're like, guess what? Lindsey Graham is terrible and he brought us into war. I'm like, you fucking moron, Lindsey Graham isn't the president. Maybe follow the logical conclusion of what you're accusing here, but I think that they start to see this, hopefully and realize that it might be smart to start creating a little distance between themselves and this administration, and that that is a. As a good strategy for the midterm. Not that I'm trying to give any, like, free game to Republicans here, but that would just be more infighting that I'd really love.
- [13:26]
B
Well, it's almost like you were in our prep meeting because you have teed up this clip that I want to play you of Joe Rogan and the Yvonne. I guess.
- [13:35]
A
Yeah. Like.
- [13:36]
C
Yeah, I don't know, man. Everybody just feels scared, and it makes sense.
- [13:38]
D
Well, they should, because a lot of things are getting exposed right now. You know, there's a lot of fraud, and you're seen at the highest levels of government, and people are also scared because no one's getting in trouble for things like no one's getting in trouble for the Epstein files. No one's getting in trouble for.
- [13:54]
C
Yeah, that's almost disappeared kind of.
- [13:56]
D
Well, that's part of what happens when there's some sort of a big social thing. One thing that's in the past that leaders have used to cover up problems at home is a fucking war. I'm not saying that that's why they bombed Iran, but that would be a way to do it. If you're that psychotic.
- [14:15]
B
If you're that psychotic like Jack Coachella.
- [14:19]
C
Yes, thank you for lumping me in with Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughn. What upsets me about Theo most isn't just that, well, I guess Rogan can be lumped in on this too. Theo just keeps eating dinner and lunch with Jared and Ivanka and I just don't, I don't know how fun having a meal with Jared and Ivanka could possibly be. But he is, you know, I kind of on his soapbox being like, oh, this administration, what they're doing here and what they're doing there. And especially because he does feel very affected or seems to feel affected by Gaza and then he just like has lunch with the guy who's like, we're going to turn it all into hotels. And I just don't know how Rogan keeps bringing like RFK on or members of this administration or people aligned with it and then feels that he is entitled. I don't know, maybe it's cuz he's such a big dummy to say these types of things, but it is interesting again that these people, and we didn't hear the finish of that clip, but will probably say like, I don't know why Trump is doing this or, you know, I don't know who's getting him to do this. And it is funny how they just completely infantilize him and take away all of his agency and, and that is the next step that I'm waiting for is for the blame to get direct. I don't know how we've like couched it in so many other people, but I don't even know if this is a waking up for him, unfortunately. I think that this is kind of broadly what people feel, but they'll never place the blame on Trump. Trump has done the genius thing of making himself a million things to a million different people and so he can really never get blamed by anyone for anything. And that has certainly helped him hear. But I'm just so. I just, I think we're all sick of these guys. They're, they're idiots. And I think we should say that like, you're stupid, you get duped, you're You're a cow, you're a sheep. You are cattle. You can be herded. Like, you fall for the, like, the jingling keys. You're dumb people. That's why you can't believe it. And I honestly, I know people want to do the, you know, we go to different audiences and be respectful and debate. And it's like, I think we should just start calling these people dumb because they're dumb. And I think, well, we should engage them, of course, but I think we should let them know our contempt because they need to be told that they're just dumb and that they should stop having opinions that Joe Rogan, at least, I think a lot of people would agree with that.
- [16:40]
B
I think a lot of people would. But I don't think that would serve us well in an election, frankly. I think the engagement and civility is important because, you see, like, I'm not
- [16:51]
C
running, and I don't know if you are yet. Do you want to make an announcement, 2028?
- [16:56]
B
I do not want to make an announcement, but it is not a no. As representatives of the left, I do think that the way the transition from maybe into Trump to, yeah, he's got some good things to say. I voted for him. Oh, I didn't sign up for this. And, like, how we handle that is important because, first of all, you should be a generous human being when you can. If someone hasn't done something like shoot
- [17:26]
C
someone, you're nice and, And I'm annoyed. And I grew up in this and know nothing different. So my politics have been shaped by this guy, and that's unfortunate, and maybe one day we'll grow past that. But do you think that we have to be nice? Like, I'm not saying that we do the thing and we can talk about, you know, maybe how I'm contradicting myself a little bit, which I don't think I am in the sense of someone like Graham Platner. Now, this is completely different. That is a person who I think serves as a great example of. And like, we talk about this like he fucking killed someone. Like, he posted some bad stuff after coming home from war. Like, let's, let's be honest here. He's not a horrible person. He's a great person. He's a great leader. I'm not going to go off on a Grand Platner tangent, but that is, I like the idea of having someone for, especially friends like mine, or maybe not my friends, people in my generation to say, oh, you can. You can kind of screw up, or you can kind of be in the wilderness politically, or you can have some bad thoughts and bad posts and bad feelings. But Joe Rogan is like, he's Joe. Like, he knew, and maybe not even he knew, but like, he had the ability to affect him. He said on his podcast someone resurfaced the clip of Trump telling him he won him the election. Don't you think that. I don't. I don't know. Don't you think that we can't treat that person with kid gloves and just, like, try to, like, hug them into. Into being better?
- [18:46]
B
I think there's a difference between kid gloves and saying you're an idiot because that idiot still has, what, 5 million listeners or. I don't even. I don't know what it is.
- [18:58]
C
You're catching up.
- [18:58]
B
It's a lot. No, I am not catching up to that.
- [19:03]
C
Take the compliment.
- [19:04]
B
I want to. Oh, thank you. Yes. Raging Moderates is the Joe Rogan of the raging against the extremes or whatever. Our new tagline is.
- [19:13]
C
I'm the extremes. So that's a problem.
- [19:15]
B
You are a little bit of the extremes. But I'm glad that we're hanging. We're finding our way through this. Okay, let's take a quick break. Stay with us.
- [19:26]
A
Hi, I'm Brene Brown.
- [19:27]
C
And I'm Adam Grant.
- [19:28]
A
And we're here to invite you to the Curiosity Shop, a podcast that's a
- [19:32]
C
place for listening, wondering, thinking, feeling, and questioning.
- [19:36]
A
It's going to be fun. We rarely agree, but we almost never disagree.
- [19:41]
C
And we're always learning.
- [19:42]
A
That's true. You can subscribe to the Curiosity shop on YouTube or follow in your favorite podcast app to automatically receive new episodes every Thursday. In 1984, Apple launched maybe the most consequential computer ever. It was not a good computer, particularly. There was actually a lot wrong with it. But the Macintosh had all of the right ideas about what computers would become, and it kind of changed everything. This week on Version History, our chat show about the best and worst and most interesting products in tech history, we're telling the story of the Macintosh and why, again, despite not being very good, it managed to change everything. Anyway, that's version history on YouTube and wherever you get podcasts.
- [20:29]
B
Welcome back. Pete Hegseth has been on a firing spree as well. The latest was Army Chief Randy George. Senior officials reportedly furious. There's also a report that he's also gotten rid of 12 minorities who, according to sources, showed exemplary service. It seems quite obvious what's going on, that you purge the military during a war that people are not supportive of. And I would imagine that Army Chief George was saying things like, we shouldn't be doing a ground invasion or maybe we shouldn't be doing this at all. That civ is massive. The amount of leaks about Pete Hag Seth's lust for a war like this. Do you think that anything will change or does he go after Driscoll at this point? How do you think General Kane, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, feels that essentially his infrastructure is getting gutted, especially at wartime?
- [21:29]
C
Yeah, I always like to feel a little better about what happens at the Pentagon, which seems like a crazy statement to make, just given all the stories that we hear from top military officials from the first Trump term. It's not the case anymore. When you see so many firings, I kind of want to flip it and play host real quick and ask you a question that kind of informs a lot of my thoughts on this. You don't necessarily have to speak to your colleagues, but a lot of the people who appear in the building, the news court building. How much insecurity, how much do you think insecurity is the driving factor behind so many people in the conservative movement? Like, when you're interacting with people who come on the show or who are in the orbit, are they as insecure as they just, like, publicly seem? Because Pete Hagseth is the most insecure person in this administration. Right.
- [22:17]
B
Maybe. I don't, I don't know. I think that the, the culture, putting aside what inherent insecurities they may have come in with, the way that that culture is run and the idea that Donald Trump loves the one that he's with. Right. Like, even remember that Matt Gates was his pick for Attorney General because Susie Wiles went to the bathroom on Air Force One and Matt Gates was able to slide in and be like, I'd be a really good choice. And it was a five alarm fire. Right. To push our way out of that. So when you know that everyone is gabbing in Trump's ear and you can't really tell who he's going to be believing or how he's going to feel on a certain day, I think it would make anyone insanely insecure, don't you think?
- [22:59]
C
As a, as a person, just like he is insecure, just like deeply.
- [23:03]
B
Yes, I think, I mean, frankly, a lot of people who are on television are insecure.
- [23:10]
C
Not podcasters, though. They're themselves.
- [23:14]
B
I mean, you just talk about yourself like you're Joe Rogan. When you are in a business that requires daily affirmation. In order for you to continue to have a job and certainly for you to do well, of course you're going to have some degree of insecurity. Right.
- [23:30]
C
His seems like deep and structurally just the way.
- [23:33]
B
Yes, of course Hegseth is different than like a normie person who's on tv. But I will say that a lot of the folks, like when you talk to General Keane, who is our senior military analyst, he talks about the war. There is no insecurity there. He thinks that this is going great and he can talk about all of the military operations and everything that has gone right and that this is a just war and it's something that was frankly overdue.
- [23:59]
C
But that kind of informs my answer where it's like, do you think he's. Of course he's going to be firing black people and women? Like, it's Pete Hegseth like, oh, what a shock. That is meritocracy. The people who are best at their jobs, who he doesn't like. But do you think he is picking on pushback or anyone who's just kind of making him look bad? Do you think that he is like, obviously he's freaking out about anyone who's leaking, which has been the entire story of his time there. But do you think, like, where do you think his biggest worry comes from? Anyone who's kind of contradicting him publicly or what do you think it might be?
- [24:36]
B
Well, publicly hasn't happened. But there are obviously a lot of meetings behind the scenes that are going on and I'm sure that people are voicing their concern. Yeah, yeah, that then via leak is coming out. I think that anyone who might frankly appeal to or their theory of the case make inroads with Donald Trump, who, you know, spent most of his life as a left leaning political independent, right. And can see, even though he denies the existence of these polls, but sees the writing on the wall, the great Fox polls, the best Fox polls and our pollsters are fantastic.
- [25:12]
C
They're great bulls. Do you want, do you want me to say something nice in the Voice to flip what happened last earlier in the week?
- [25:20]
B
No, I'm cool. So I think it's all of that. But I also think that, like, there's just straight up sexism and racism going on there. There have been reports that Donald Trump, in fact, did not want to stand next to, to black people at presentation ceremonies or whatever it was. And we know his history. You know, like, I grew up in New York and I know about the Central Park Five. I know about not allowing black People to rent your apartments. Like, people don't change that much, frankly. So I'm not that surprised by it. But it does feel like there's upheaval in every quarter, essentially, that, like, there is a churn of stories, negative stories from every facet.
- [26:04]
C
Do you think he is, like, I, I. Maybe it's best, like, if Hagseth feels barely protected. I know there's been some stories about the possibility of him being on shaky ground. Do you think he is? Because it just kind. It seems like he's pretty steady in there.
- [26:18]
B
I don't know. Like, I mean, frankly, I think Signal Gate was the point in which Pete should have gone. And I know Mike Waltz was the one who actually added Jeffrey Goldberg, but he wasn't the one sharing the war plans. And the unsecured chat was like, 20 people plus, you know, the editor of the Atlantic. So, you know, we're, we're at war. There's no way that the Secretary of Defense is going during war. But I think that there may be a moment where Donald Trump says, I need to clean house fully, and then it can be a wipeout.
- [26:50]
C
What do you think would be the net in terms of, like, how is Donald Trump firing a bunch of people in his cabinet going to be any shift for any voter who's upset about the price of gas? Like, what is that? Like, what do you. What exactly. So, like, what do you think would be the conversation in the White House about what that. That shift looks like? Do you think that any of them believe. Do you think Susie Wiles does? Or do you think she just kind of wants to take back a little bit of her power? Because maybe that's the case right now is everyone's just kind of fighting. Because that's my thing. They all view this, to me, as, like, the transitionary period, and so they just want to stay in his good graces before it all really hits the fan. Like, that is my opinion on how most of those players who view themselves at least as being able to have a future in the party are kind of acting right now.
- [27:35]
B
So Susie Wiles, I don't think does anything for, like, a momentary high or for, like, I gotta. I gotta get in good with him for 20 minutes or whatever. Like, Susie Wiles is in great position. She's respected by everybody. Donald Trump very much feels like he owes the campaign to her and her, her influence. And, like, I don't think Susie Wiles is insecure about anything. I think that when these leaks happen from her, like, the one that staffers should stop showing him just like the two minute snuff film version of the war. Or when she spoke to Vanity Fair, remember did like, what did she do, like 14 interviews or something with them. Like, she knows exactly what she's doing and she wants the administration to succeed because she's a, a part of it, but B, she wants, you know, Republican governance and, and that has been very much part of her life's mission. So I don't, I don't think she's that kind of character. I actually think that she is a real genuine adult that is part of this motley crew and that she thinks that it needs to be steered back because you're completely right. The gas prices don't change with, you know, more stories about firing black people or women or even if Howard Lutnick goes or Tulsi Gabbard or, or Pam Bondi because like a, it's going to take a real shift in economic policy, but also Donald Trump caring about it. And like the man has mocked affordability as much as he is mocked women. I would say over the years.
- [29:12]
C
That's a high bar.
- [29:14]
B
It is. It is the highest of bars. I want to Talk a little 2028 with you on our side, not their side. Who are you liking? How are you feeling about it?
- [29:25]
C
I am feeling that a final form of a candidate is not here yet on anyone. I think that there is a lot of jockeying and I think a lot of people who are saying things now, and I think you probably know the issues that I have in mind are not the things that they're going to be saying in even six months. Andy Bashir saying that calling a genocide a genocide is a litmus test is going to be a really tough clip for him to get past. And I think AOC and Ro Khanna coming out and saying they will not be voting ever again. They do not support sending offensive or defensive weapons to Israel. I think that this is going to be a major sticking point. I know there's a lot of people like the Third Way space who want to say that this is all a nonsense conversation and it's just, you know, the left trying to create problems. I think that there is a very clear understanding after a decade of doing Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, that people are not the problems that systems are. And I think anyone who's saying, oh, we got to get rid of Trump, like, no, talk like Talarico, right? Talarico talks about a billionaire class, an Epstein class. The systems are broken, political systems are broken. Campaign finance systems that allowed this to happen. It's going to be the same thing, I think, with campaign finance. I think it's going to be the same thing with big, bold structural change to the way that we run an economy that disproportionately has benefited the wealthiest for the entirety of American history, and especially now in an era in which we're going to see massive job loss through AI. And I think it'll be the same thing in our foreign policy which people care about because they see, they see now the effect it has on everything. Prices are skyrocketing because of the parasitic relationship that we have with Israel, in my opinion and in the opinion of the broader Democratic base. So I think that those questions are going to start to develop. And so I maybe didn't answer your question entirely. And so maybe I'd be really great in 2028 so I don't have to answer questions. But I just think, I don't know if I can say anyone because none of these people are who they're going to be or who they're going to have to be in a year. And I don't know if that's been the case before.
- [31:30]
B
Do you think that everything that you just said is the same for, for Republican Gen Z is too or right leaning?
- [31:38]
C
I don't think it's the same.
- [31:39]
B
Really?
- [31:39]
C
No.
- [31:40]
B
I think you listen to what people are talking about at CPAC and like how disengaged all of the young people were there and talking about how Trump is totally missing the mark.
- [31:51]
C
And so I mean, I mean, I
- [31:53]
B
don't know, there's a lot of similarities.
- [31:54]
C
I mean in this sense, I mean in the sense that the conversations. And maybe this is a dumb answer to your question and so that's bad podcasting by me, but I think in the sense that like the Democratic conversation will be real. Republicans want a full blown Nazi. Like young people. Chris Murphy had a funny tweet the other day. I thought it was funny because he's like, you know, young people don't like fascism. I was like, young people love fascism. My generation wants to see a charismatic leader come in and take over everything and just fundamentally change it, Right? And so we young people on the left want to talk about broken systems that we need to upend. They just want a full blown fucking Nazi. Like that is very obvious in all the group chats and all the dissatisfaction and everything that young men post on Reddit. Not to throw Reddit under the bus, shout out to Reddit, but I just think that like their guy is going to be Tucker. And that's what I think. I think that they just want someone who is going to be wild and charismatic and I know that kind of fits in, but they're going to want them to be just like a full blown Nazi. And I just think that that is a little different. I think the appeal that people are going to have is they're the worst parts of them. And I think, yeah, maybe there's going to be some sort of blow it up Edness, but I just kind of have to think JD Vance is not going to be able to in the same way Kamala Harris wasn't. JD Vance isn't going to be able to run against Trump's record. Neither will Marco Rubio. And those are going to be the two most prominent players. You see Ron DeSantis right now taking shots at the administration. But I doubt that those two really can. And so I think the person who emerges and so maybe I'm wrong in saying no, it is certainly in the same way, but the person's gonna be horrible and the way that they. And it's Republican of course, but I just think that it's gonna be that what they want is something is awful is what they want.
- [33:41]
B
I, yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with that. I just meant that if you asked people 18 to 29 year olds, like what do you want to see from your government? Putting aside those who would overtly say I would like a Nazi because would probably couch it a little bit differently and be.
- [33:56]
C
Maybe some of them wouldn't. No, let's talk to some young people and you can.
- [34:01]
B
No, but it is, you know, it's that desire for a, you know, blow it all up system for a charismatic leader, you know, someone who feels like they will take on special interests, the Epstein class, etc. It will be. It is very interesting to, to me to see parallels between what just young people in general are saying what they want. Nazi stuff aside, maybe the better answer. I don't disagree.
- [34:27]
C
So the question is then like the feelings are parallel. The answers are wildly different in their level of seriousness, of course, but also how they'll be presented 100%.
- [34:38]
B
We will not be running any Nazis or Nazi adjacent people, which is how it should be. Jack, this was awesome. Thanks for joining me.
- [34:46]
C
Thanks for having me.
- [34:47]
B
All right, before we go, a reminder that not only is raging moderates five days a week, we're now available on Substack. Subscribers get ad free episodes, live streams and a place to connect with me and Scott and the rest of the Prof. G Universe. Find us@raging moderates.prof.gmedia.com and also, big news. The biggest news, it's not an Emmy, but it's a Webby. We've been nominated for Best News in Politics podcast. We need your vote to help bring it home. We're up against a Midas Touch podcast, and if you haven't noticed, they're like a pro democracy army. So we have to have our own head over to vote.webbyawards.com and cast your vote. We also has a link in the show notes. That's all for this episode. Thank you so much for joining.