← Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
Trump’s “Project Freedom” Shows His Awful Negotiation Skills
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- [00:00]
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- [02:14]
Scott Galloway
Welcome to Radio Moderates. I'm Scott Galloway.
- [02:16]
Jessica Tarlev
And I'm Jessica Tarlev.
- [02:18]
Scott Galloway
So the easiest way to support us is to subscribe to our YouTube page and stay up to date on all the news politics. All right, let's get into it. Tehran has threatened to attack any ships traveling through the Strait of Hormuz today after President Trump announced plans to help guide stranded vessels out of the area in a venture he's calling Project Freedom. All right, oil prices jumped on the news and US gas prices are up nearly 50% since the start of the war. With seemingly little movement on a deal between the US And Iran. The Trump administration has just fast tracked the emergency sale of arms to allies in the Middle east worth around $9 billion. And calcium markets have it at just a 50% likelihood that traffic in the Strait is back to normal by August 1st. Wow. So a coin flip on weather the free flow of tankers through the strait by August. The conflict in Iran also just hit the 60 day mark under the War Powers Resolution. Trump says he doesn't need congressional authorization because of the ceasefire. Jess, it seems as if the US is ramping up action, perhaps as a way to justify a defensive response against Iran. What do you make of this? Is this, at this point, is this just a game of chicken?
- [03:31]
Jessica Tarlev
I don't know if it's chicken, but I know that Trump wants out. Whether Pete Hegseth wants out is a very different matter. Or Marco Rubio. But you can see in the way that the President is behaving and how he's treating opportunities to escalate. There was a lot of reporting, especially in Axios, about how we were going to ramp back up and then he was like, I really want a deal, I want a deal. And he didn't say it explicitly, but it seems like he's getting more and more open to the idea that a deal that resembles the JCPOA, which he tore up in 2018, might be what he's going to have to accept at this point because it's untenable to keep the straight closed, especially if the blockade of the blockade isn't really working. It is very hard to get good information on exactly what's happening. You know, lots of sites and accounts that track tankers, for instance, but you have tankers that are disguised, you have false reports of the irgc, you know, firing on vessels, then they're not firing on them, according to centcom. So, you know, we're in a little bit of a black box at this, at our time of recording on late Monday morning. But I think that the most important plot line here is that President Trump wants out. And he wants out faster than like the amount of time that he thought that he would spend on this. He's been talking about Cuba more, right. That Cuba is next because he thinks that that could be more of a Venezuela, right, Like a one and done kind of thing for the special operation. It will be interesting to see what the Republicans do on the congressional side. Apparently they're putting Together like a War Powers authorization, not in the traditional sense, one that would only require a simple majority. They seem to be still holding onto some semblance of the idea that they're supposed to be asked if we are in a war for longer than 60 days. But it's completely insane to say that because there's a ceasefire, even though all evidence would suggest that, you know, stuff is still going on in the conflict that the War Powers Resolution, you know, wouldn't apply to it. And the administration is just trying to play some word games to distract us from the reality on the ground, which is the operational excellence, I think it's fair to say, is more and more in question. And that report from cnn, which you cited in the introduction is really important because, you know, Pete Heg says telling Congress, oh, we've only spent $25 billion on it when estimates are over 80 billion. That's because of how much of our stuff has gotten blown up in all of this and damaged. And that's why, you know, J.D. vance is concerned about it. And the American people, you know, rightfully so, where the disapproval is now above Vietnam, that's where we've gotten now. So it's kind of my. My view from the airplane up there. What do you make of, I guess what. Whatever's going on in the strait this morning and this idea that our allies should also help escort tankers through the US has apparently even asked China to help.
- [06:32]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. So just in traditional strategy or traditional negotiation, making it clear you just want out isn't exactly going to encourage the other side to give on anything. And I literally think this guy's the world's worst business person. There's only two things you have to remember in negotiation. One, don't let it get emotional. Don't be about win, lose. There needs to be a certain rail politic. Leaving Vietnam was basically declaring defeat. And it's like, okay, here's where we are. The American public doesn't support it. We've been here for a decade, plus 58,000Americans coming home in body bags. Why are we here? All right, it is what it is. We're out. Not turn negotiations. I look at things through a business lens through win and lose. When I was a much younger man, I was always like, I was one of the better side of every deal. Realizing that most deals are going to be somewhere between leaving something on the table. Both sides are not that happy. Usually that's a sign of a good deal, or both sides feel like there's a win here and then the Second thing is you always have to show a willingness to walk away. And when he's constantly sending signals and the media sending signals that he just wants out, what is their motivation for doing anything? What is their motivation for giving in on anything or sticking to anything? Because there's some logic to saying, just nod your head and say, sure, yeah, you can have this, or open the straight and then close it again. Are Americans going to support American naval infrastructure and aircraft and are they going to have any support for a re engagement here? So we are playing with an incredibly weak hand and I think they know it. Every day this goes on, we leak advantage to the IRGC and our foes. I think the people that are most screwed here, clearly the, you know, the Iranian people who've lost family members. And a lot of people would retort, well, the IRGC has killed more people in Iran than America has by a magnitude of an exponential magnitude. But the Gulf states are kind of fucked here. I mean, hopefully over the long term, this creates peace in a weakened Iran, I think is good for the region. But you gotta think the uae, who just left opec, who is now in a fractured relationship with the kingdom and the Gulf, are saying, okay, we're now stuck with this message and if Iran decides to try and wreak havoc in the strait moving forward, then we're really screwed. And let's just go look at some of the data. A new Washington Post ABC News Ipsos poll shows that Americans are broadly dissatisfied with President Trump's leadership and he's not particularly helped by the conflict with Iran. 62% of Americans now disapprove of the president, while 72% disapprove of his handling of inflation. And three quarters, 76% disapprove of Trump's efforts to control the cost of living. The same poll found that Democrats lead over Republicans in the midterms to have increased slightly to 5%. Kalshee now predicts that the likelihood of the Democrats take back the house at 79% and the chance of a blue tsunami at 47%. I think the larger issue here that is going to require a decent amount of introspection is that one of the basis of our government was and what the framers initially contemplated was the checks and balances in different branches of executive power. And it feels as if we have one branch that's largely informed by Fox News hosts and that is the Supreme Court seems to be pretty much just given almost total blank check authority, with maybe the exception around First Amendment and hopefully around elections. We'll see. But given a blank check authority and Congress is just what the fuck is Congress for? Let's just send them home and save them money. I mean, oh, for 60 days you can have a unilateral military action, but then Congress has to approve. Well, here we are, 60 days. Speaker Johnson isn't calling everyone back to D.C. to vote on a War Powers Resolution Act. So I think the longer conversation, just as we talk about structural reform around Citizens United and gerrymandering has to be around. Will do. In fact, we have co equal branches of government because it does not, it does not feel that way at all.
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Jessica Tarlev
Well, and it's not just a question for the Democrats to be mulling. Right. As you're mounting your campaigns, obviously for the midterms, but then thinking about 2028. But there's a big identity crisis moment going on with Republicans where I don't know if you've been seeing these clips floating around of the number of judicial nominees who will not say that Donald Trump didn't win the 2020 election or that Joe Biden did. I mean, Steve Hilton, who is running for governor in California, one of my former colleagues was doing an interview and wouldn't say it either. And I mean, I don't know Donald Trump personally. I, you know, I know that he's not the biggest fan of mine, certainly, but I get the sense that he wouldn't like behead you or something if you just said in the simplest terms, Joe Biden won the 2020 election and then Donald Trump mounted the biggest comeback in American political history. Like, and like, moved on with your life. Right. Like he's got bigger fish to fry at this point. Right. He's in the middle of a, you know, an international war that no one is into and people are paying too much for everything in their lives. And, you know, he's got some crypto to trade. Like, it's amazing what they're still being put through as he's essentially a lame duck and about to become even lamer of a duck. And the balance of power a la, you know, King Charles showing up and saying, you know, this is important. Right. You guys gotta be thinking about this when he was visiting last week is going to weigh heavily on the Republicans that, you know, want to compete for the nomination. There's some reporting that Trump is even considering the possibility of leapfrogging over Vance to just make Rubio the guy that he prefers him, which would make sense to me, frankly. I think, you know, Rubio is someone who still has some level of bipartisan support and is not as polarizing as Vance and also seems like he knows what he's doing, even if you don't necessarily agree with what the outcomes are. But how are these guys going to talk about what's been done to our institutions and how the legislature has been completely neutered over the last few years at the hands of somebody that's still wielding such a grip on the party?
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Scott Galloway
Yeah, it's. I don't get it either. I think that if you were to say, to your point, in a California
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Jessica Tarlev
election, a seat full of liberals.
- [13:22]
Scott Galloway
Yeah. To say, look, Trump won two of the last three elections and Biden won one, I mean, is that really going to cost you the election? Say Trump comes out. And by the way, what's the downside? Trump comes out against you. Would that hurt you in California?
- [13:37]
Jessica Tarlev
No, I'm sure he's like, you know, has that in the back of his head. And now Democrats are kind of consolidating more. Like, Becerra is now atop the polls, and then Steve Hilton's in second position. Remember when all this started, we thought it was possible that two Republicans were going to win the Jungle primary and that the Democrats might be fully shut out. So maybe he thinks, like, a Republican could fully drop out of the top, too. But, like, you look insane.
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Scott Galloway
I think it's more understandable and forgivable for Steve Hilton than some of the recent judicial or bench. Federal bench nominees for the following. Let me get this. You want to be a judge. You want to be telling people to be under oath and answer the question directly for a lifetime. For God's sakes, it's lifetime employment. And again, if Trump came out against them, I don't think he would get every Republican senator back down. I don't get the calculus there on saying, yeah, I'm a coward. I'm still scared of this guy. For a lifetime appointment where you have a lot of leverage. I can see Steve Hilton worried that Trump would. Would draw his endorsement. But I, for, for federal bench, I just don't see how these guys, I think at this point, they're kind of bulletproof. So I don't understand. I don't understand the calculus around it.
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Jessica Tarlev
Well, it's like when you tell your kids, like, it's not as bad as you think. I want to ask you something that's approval ratings before we move on to the next topic, because, you know, Trump is in this terrible position, but Democrats have not benefited in the way that you would expect. So they're favored on the Generic ballot, I think it's six with registered voters, nine with likely voters. And we're getting into likely voter territory. But on a number of issues, especially around crime, policing, safety, immigration, Republicans are still favored by a decent amount. We just tilted it on the economy up 1 in that. And I was digging into it and it was quite interesting, the argument. An online magazine did a really cool piece on this and they were talking about the specifics on crime that really aggravate people. Issues like shoplifting, where Democrats seem like they don't care at all if somebody shoplifts. And I'm, I don't know if you've seen this, but like in New York, for instance, there's all this data on how it's the same people and the same organized rings that are doing essentially all of the petty theft. Right. And this is happening across all big cities on something like the death penalty, where people think that Americans think that it should be an option for things like rape, murder, child abuse, and they just generally don't think that Democrats take crime seriously. And I know that there are a lot of Democrats who have changed the way that they talk about it and, you know, gone after these very liberal DAs across the country, especially in big cities. But I found that really interesting, like to, to see the drill down data on it and how much things like shoplifting or the death penalty, et cetera, were factoring into people's general perceptions of the parties.
- [16:40]
Scott Galloway
So there's, there's few moments, but they do happen where I think maybe in my next life I'll be a Republican. And one of those moments is when you're in a CVS in Manhattan and you need Advil. You have screaming headache and you just want fucking Advil. And you have to find a little buzzer somewhere and ring it and wait five minutes for someone to come down looking aggravated and overworked to use a key to unlock this plastic little safe such that you can grab your $4 bottle of Advil. Because clearly petty crime is so out of control in these stores and in many of the liberal cities, they have, generally speaking, they have not been prosecuting petty crime. So look, the Democrats, they're not snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, but I would say they're not seizing victory. And at some point they're going to have to move from indignation to ideas. So Senator Warner and Senator Hawley proposing retraining programs or something around AI. Some Democrat needs to propose some sort of regulation encompassing regulation around basic points, around character AI, around surveillance, around privacy Around a blue ribbon panel that gets to test every AI LLM before it can or a feature upgrade before it's released. Alternative Minimum tax. The Democrats. We get it. He sucks. You're great at pointing that out. But what new ideas have Democrats brought to bear to say, okay, we've done a great job of explaining to you why you shouldn't vote for him, but where are the folks telling you why you should vote for us? What is the plan? What are we gonna do differently? Because what people have come to believe is that Democrats get in office and basically do the same thing. Taxes went down, corporate taxes went down during the Biden administration. I mean, there's a general belief, okay, they're the same. There's no difference between the two parties. I also think we just suffer a total dearth of leadership. I think Minority Leader Schumer is not the voice we need right now. I think Leader Jeffries is a really decent man and a great representative. I don't think he's the. I don't think he's the right voice right now. And other than that, what you have is the strongest Democratic voices all look like people who are jockeying for the Democratic nomination for president by cosplaying Obama as opposed to putting forth actual proposals and plans that will inevitably get torn apart and have a lot of critics and alienate people. And they'll have to defend them and they'll have to know what they're talking about. So they'd rather just talk about healing America or this kind of rhetorical flourish. So it doesn't surprise me that Democrats don't appear to be seizing the moment. And that is right now, I think, their playbook. And when we spoke to Jefferies, who basically acknowledged this, it's kind of. They're taking the Sun Tzu strategy of when your enemy is shooting themselves in the foot, you just stay out of the way. At some point, we're going to have to identify a series of policies that are new, that reflect the changing world of technology, the changing world of income inequality, the changing world of geopolitics, of a rising China. Somebody is going to have to say, all right, this is our new trade policy. This is our approach to tariffs. This is a new tax policy for, let's do away with capital gains tax and just have one source of income. Let's talk about run on minimum wage. We're raising minimum wage to 25 bucks. We are going to have a certain policy around data centers and AI infrastructure that is a framework for states to adopt. It looks like Data centers might be the new kind of cudgel that people fight over.
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Jessica Tarlev
Yeah.
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Scott Galloway
Who is proposing these ideas? Who is, who is leading versus bitching?
- [20:34]
Jessica Tarlev
Well, it's a mishmash and I'm totally with you on Schumer, less so on Jeffries. I think, you know, the Nancy Pelosi standard is so high. Right. In terms of effectiveness. I mean, the woman never missed a vote in the entirety of her career completely path breaking, you know, getting the ACA through is one of the biggest legislative achievements. Right. That anyone could ever expect to have. And so I feel like that's a huge shadow that he walked into. I felt like he has been very much on offense certainly over the last few months as we've gotten into these shutdowns and like really sticking to their guns about things like funding ICE and CBP, etc. And redistricting. But what I want to say, I mean, I agree with you about policies, we complain about that all the time and there are Democrats with policies, but it's, you know, it's spread out and it doesn't feel like a funnel. Right. Like if I, if you said to me, and I probably spend more time thinking about this than the average person by miles, like what's the Democratic platform? What are the three key policies for going into the midterms? I couldn't tell you what that is. I mean, I know that the, the values behind the party. So we could talk about, you know, a tax system where the richest pay their fair share and we make sure that, you know, nobody's left behind, etc. But you're totally right. Data center is huge deal. Also in Maine, this conversation now is inextricably linked to what happened with the Supreme Court and the Voting Rights act last week. And as we spend, you know, a few more days looking at this and the swift action that legislators on the Republican side are trying to take in states like Louisiana, I mean, we could be staring down, you know, the peruvial barrel of a third of the Congressional Black Caucus going away over the next few years because of redistricting. It could end up losing 13 plus Southern seats. You know, that is an enormous challenge that, you know, people are obviously starting to talk about and this is a new decision, but ideas without even having the districts to be able to win in them is a whole other set of complications for people. Right. Like you could have the best platform in the world, but if the districts are drawn in such a way that it is impossible for you to win them, like what are you going to do? And Also, what does it say about our country when there's basically no black representation in the most densely populated black areas in the country?
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Scott Galloway
Yeah. The fact that the south might have less representation from the African American community is basically saying let's take the country back 50 years. I mean it's just we keep thinking, oh this is a red line, this won't happen. And then it, and then it happens. But I believe if a Democrat wants to emerge, he or she is going to have to declare war on other Democrats along the lines of the following. Trump has made $300 million in ill gotten games from a crypto scam. I'm going to propose an executive order. I am going if elected or we are going to propose legislation. I want everyone to vote on it. Oh and by the way, Speaker Pelosi, you need to disgorge $130 million in profits that are above market. If you look at the insurance market, in sum, when you are forced to do something, it should be regulated. You are forced to buy liability and fire and wind insurance to get a mortgage. You have no choice. So if you think that the American dream is to buy a home and you have to get this type of insurance to buy a home, then you are essentially forced to do it. Now there's an argument that the private sector is best at allocating risk operating these companies. Private companies deserve to make a profit. They took a trillion dollars in premiums in, they dispersed in claims about $630 million. Which means that if you give a dollar to an insurance company which you have to do to buy a home, you, you're getting 63 cents back. There should be a mandate and a law that says, okay, the average profit margin for this type of industry is around, call it 20%. Any insurance company that over a three or five year rolling average has to rebate back anything above 20% profit margins because we have no choice but to buy it and go after these folks. If you are going to propose, in my view some sort of anti corruption legislation, you're going to have to go after both sides. You're going to have to say look, if you registered profits above the S and P over the last 10 years and analytical models can say there was a 1 in 7,000 chance you could perform or outperform this to this extent. See above Nancy Pelosi 700% return, Warren Buffett 300% S&P 200% then you have to disgorge back those ill gotten gains. And by the way Witkoff children, you can't Take a half a billion dollar investment. There needs to be. Somebody needs to step up and say, okay, we get it, these people are corrupt. But you're gonna have to propose some sort of systemic legislation, maybe it doesn't pass, but force everyone to vote on it. And the only way you're gonna get the independence and quite frankly, the only way you're gonna have any sort of moral clarity around this is, is to go after both sides but the Democrats instead. Again, it's all indignation, no ideas.
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Jessica Tarlev
Yeah, I, I do think Jon Ossoff is on that path from Georgia. And this also gets into a little bit of the division between kind of like the middle of the party and the DSA side of the party who are much more comfortable talking about the corruption writ large. Right. That it's like the billionaires and the rich are the problem. Like how Bernie Sanders and AOC and mom Donnie talk about things versus your kind of average Democrat. But yeah, I think people are going to be turning their fire on one another for sure right after the midterms finish, essentially. Like we'll get those results and then 2028 will be up and running and folks are going to be going at each other.
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Scott Galloway
I think it's pretty safe to say that at a broad level in terms of fundraising, in terms of gains, again, right now we just look to be the least bad alternative. I do think we are proposing or have in the way in the wings a really strong bench for president. But it doesn't feel like the party, if you will, the party, the Democratic brand has gained it all or has reaped any advantage here from this meltdown.
- [27:08]
Jessica Tarlev
Okay, let's take a quick break. Stay with us.
- [27:14]
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- [28:35]
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- [29:17]
Jessica Tarlev
welcome back. We just got some breaking news within our hour because we were going to talk about the case over mifepristone, the abortion pill.
- [29:26]
Scott Galloway
Yeah.
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Jessica Tarlev
And the New York Times just updated to say Supreme Court restored nationwide access to a widely used abortion medication and a temporary order that will for now allow women to once again obtain the pill. Mifer Prestone by mail. That's a big deal. I didn't know how quickly it was going to move. I didn't expect it would be, you know, within two days. I guess I didn't have on my bingo card that this was going to become a central issue in our politics again. Like Dobbs felt like it had kind of taken care of it for a while. Not in the direction that I wanted necessarily, but Democrats have certainly been hearing loud and clear we don't want to be talking about reproductive health. Right. Like we want to be talking about grocery prices. But it seems like we are very much going to be talking about it again. And I just wanted to share. I thought it was really fascinating the head of the Susan B. Anthony's list. So the anti abortion activist group did an interview with the Wall Street Journal and said Trump is the problem, the President is the problem. This comes from the fact that abortions are actually up in the years over overturning Roe v. Wade and that comes from the wide of this abortion pill and that you can do it from home. And they're disappointed with RFK Jr and Marty McCary who heads up the FDA and they're going to spend something like $160 million in the upcoming cycles. So it looks like abortion will be back on the ballot in a big way. What do you make of all of this?
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Scott Galloway
I think Miff Preston is just such an incredible breakthrough. So first off, it's one of the most studied and safest medications in history. It's used by millions of patients worldwide over decades. Serious complications are very rare. The safety profile is similar to or safer than most common prescriptions. It's 95 to 99% effective. It expands access, especially in underserved areas, can prescribe via telehealth. It's incredibly important to rural populations, low income patients, areas with limited providers and earlier care results in safer outcomes. If you're really concerned with women's health, I think it's just indefensible not to support this breakthrough.
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Jessica Tarlev
Well, they're not. That's the problem because the argument that Louisiana brought, when they brought the case was, well, you're subverting our abortion ban, right? Because you could still get an abortion by mail essentially here.
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Scott Galloway
In my view, that's the most mendacious thing about it. There are people, I get it, they're principled, they think this is ending a life, as Nancy Pelosi said. Speaker Pelosi said they think conception begins at a glass of wine. They want to go so far down the supply chain. But I do understand to a certain extent not much empathize with people who believe it's ending a life. Fine, don't have an abortion. But what is so mendacious and so ugly about this and so anti American is I don't even see this as a war on women. It's a war on poor women. Because anyone in my life is going to have access to this drug if they need it, regardless of what the Supreme Court does. Who's not going to have Access is a 16 year old woman of color in a low income neighborhood that finds out she's pregnant, is uncomfortable talking about it, and they're basically making it such that the most vulnerable people become totally impoverished. And it's typically the same people who are most fanatical about this issue who want to cut off food stamps and childcare and social services. Also, I don't think there's a strong legal argument here. Other medications with higher risk profiles remain legal and singling this one off seems inconsistent. In sum, it's safe, it works and it expands access to earlier lower risk care and kind of stitching it into the argument or the thoughts of what I think about in terms of young men stepping up. The primary reason given by women who terminate a pregnancy is not that they don't want to have kids. It's not that they think they aren't struggling with it. Morally the number one reason given for terminating a pregnancy is they say they don't have a reliable partner. And so if you want to have more kids, if you want to have fewer pregnancies terminated, then we need to figure out a way to lift up young people and quite frankly mature a new generation of more economically and emotionally viable men who take responsibility for their actions. But this in my view is pretty simple and straight. I don't think this is a discussion of abortion. I think this is a discussion around our willingness to declare war on the poor, especially poor women of color. Because I'm telling you, any white upper middle class or up family is going to have no problem getting access to this drug. This is about lowering the protections and rights of women and going right after women's health of the most vulnerable women in our country in rural areas, typically lower income. And the thing about our government, the rich don't need the government. I don't especially need the government. I got my own transportation, I got my own healthcare, my kids have their own schooling. I can live in a doorman building. It's the poor that need the government the most. They need the most protection. They need the most people in the government erring on the side of giving them the rights to protect their healthcare. I think this is a really big issue for me. This should be. A Democrat should really come out very strongly for this and to me this is just unthinkable. That's one of the things, you know, I understand the argument in Europe beyond a certain, in many nations in Europe beyond say six months, abortion is illegal.
- [35:23]
Jessica Tarlev
No, wait, 15 weeks is actually the European standard.
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Scott Galloway
But isn't it? I thought it was the viability of the fetus in some nations and others actually put a, others put an actual week limit on it.
- [35:36]
Jessica Tarlev
Yes, some. But overall you find more nations that are akin to, you know, like western developed nations etc that talk about, you know, 15 to 20 weeks. And a lot of people here in the states, like even left leaning people think that we should have conversations around, you know, viability generally understood as 20 weeks. That's when you have, you know, you're kind of final scan for 10 figures, 10 toes, et cetera. And I always thought it was a missed opportunity for Democrats to not talk about that, more like to to seem more normal about it, essentially. Not that there aren't reasons to have an abortion in the third trimester. And I fundamentally think, you know, it's your body, your choice. But I get why someone thinks that the idea that even one person who wakes up at eight months pregnant and just decides, oh, I don't want a sensible argument. Yeah, for me. And it just, it puts you more in line with the average American.
- [36:34]
Scott Galloway
Right?
- [36:34]
Jessica Tarlev
You know, who picked, for instance, voted for Donald Trump. Right. And then a blue state senator, for instance, like the Dobbs decision. Did you know, send this back to the states. And there are some people who are cool with it that way. So I'm just throwing out there that like, at least talking a little bit more moderate will make you seem a lot more sane to people.
- [36:57]
Scott Galloway
I got it.
- [36:58]
Jessica Tarlev
Let's take one last break. Stay with us.
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- [39:13]
Jessica Tarlev
Welcome back.
- [39:14]
Scott Galloway
All right, let's talk about the New York Times profile of Tucker Carlson, which seems to in some ways show up as legitimacy as a candidate for 2028. Calcius Carlson at 8% likely to become the Republican nominee, which has him third in the running behind J.D. vance and Marco Rubio. Jess, what was your take on the piece?
- [39:33]
Jessica Tarlev
So I thought that Lulu Garcia Navarro did a very good job. She came uber prepared with all of his past comments. One exchange that went particularly viral where he, you know, she said, you called Trump the Antichrist. He's like, no, I didn't then say that. Yeah. Then she reads it back and he's like, I didn't say that. So there's a bad faith argument to be made about Tucker Carlson, which I think all of us, you know, felt was coming. And it was good to see that she didn't get stumped on anything. One interaction, though, I thought was particularly important, this back and forth over who's more morally reprehensible, Nick Fuentes or Ted Cruz. And Lulu kept saying, well, he's a white nationalist about Nick Fuentes. And then Tucker was arguing, well, Ted Cruz has killed kids. Now, Ted Cruz hasn't killed kids, but by extension of his policies. And he was making this argument about the neocon apparatus that they have these policies that result in what he thinks is a genocide in Gaza, et cetera. And I was tracking the left wing and the right wing reaction to that particular interaction. And there are a lot of people who agree with Tucker on this. This like words versus deeds, essentially. And that Nick Fuentes sits in a studio, you know, talking about how much he hates Jews and blacks, though lately he's just been talking about how much he hates Trump. And that has way less impact than anything a US Senator does when they vote to spend billions of dollars for wars abroad or whatever they even do here internally. So that was something that stuck out to me. I don't know if anything did for you.
- [41:12]
Scott Galloway
Kira asked me what I thought of his mea culpa with his brother. And to me it seemed obvious he's clearly running for president and Molly, that I'd put his odds at much greater than 8% right now.
- [41:25]
Jessica Tarlev
Oh, yeah.
- [41:26]
Scott Galloway
Oh, think about it. He has an Arm. He's very talented. You may hate the guy. He's very talented. He's got an army of acolytes he could weaponize. He has an unbelievably strong platform in many ways. He reaches more people than Vance or Rubio every day. He's not tethered to the fucking insanity and incompetence that is Trump for the next two and a half years. He can just make common sense statements. And there's an enormous lane of Republicans, very conservative, who are anti, quote, unquote, forever wars, very much against Iran, very much against Israel, who claim we're not anti Semites, but we're anti Israel. And he's decided, look, the manosphere played a huge role in the nomination of Trump. I am absolutely gonna bear hug them and make a lot of excuses for Nick Fuentes. Everything Tucker Carlson is doing right now is lining himself up for Iowa. And if he gets on a debate stage with JD Vance and Marco Rubio, he's gonna fucking slice and dice them because he's gonna be able to attach them to all the things they used to say about Trump and then all of their actions, and he's going to forge all they're going to do. The debate between the three of those people is going to be Vance and Rubio doing the most pretzel gymnastics, trying to explain their support of these actions. There is an enormous lane for Rubio, I actually think. I'm fascinated. I'm digressing a little bit. I'm about to have on my podcast, or I'm hoping to have on my podcast, the guy who I think could have been the GOP nominee for president in 2020, who actually might have given him a viable chance, and that is Ben Sasse, who is.
- [43:06]
Jessica Tarlev
You have Ben Sasse coming on.
- [43:09]
Scott Galloway
I'm preempting myself, but he's supposedly. His office has agreed. But I am obsessed with Senator Sasse or university President Sass. I think this guy reeks of integrity. I don't. And I'll have to do my land acknowledgement. I don't agree with most of his politics and policies, but this is a very decent man who is saying all the right things. And I think, Jesus Christ, that guy would be scary if he were running or scary for Democrats. He would right now be polling at about 15 or 20%. But right now, the biggest lane in the Republican Party is represented by a guy who has an enormous media platform, is going to embrace the manosphere again. This was the manosphere election. Testosterone got Trump elected. I don't care what anyone says. Mothers who have sons in the basement playing video games and vaping don't give a shit about territorial sovereignty in Ukraine or transgender rights. They just know their sons aren't doing well. He flew right into the, right into the manosphere. Rockets, crypto, ufc, Hulk Hogan. And Tucker, who is very smart, observes that and has decided that Nick is just not that bad and he's gonna let Vance, Rubio, Cruz and all the Republicans go down with the ship and the notion. I just think it's hilarious that people think Vance or Rubio are gonna win presidency. Trump is Chernobyl. Everyone gets leukemia that's anywhere near him. Who from the first Trump administration has gone on to lead a really robust political career? Anyone heard from General Kelly? What about Secretary of State Rex Tillerson? He is fucking Chernobyl. The only person that left sort of unscathed was Ambassador and Governor Haley. Everyone else, he doesn't give a shit about the Republican Party. He doesn't give a shit about Rubio or Vance personally. They are going to come out with stage 45 fucking leukemia in the next two and a half years. The Republican lane is wide open and the guy right now in that lane, 100%. Tucker Carlson, your thoughts?
- [45:08]
Jessica Tarlev
I agree with that. I would add that there are a lot of people who are doing well on the speaking circuit. They do not have political careers anymore, but they go, you know, whenever banks are organizing things and then they tell you about, you know, all the things they would have done.
- [45:21]
Scott Galloway
You know, I see them all the
- [45:22]
Jessica Tarlev
time on the Ben sass front, that 60 Minutes interview, I just like sobbed the whole time. And with that, I would love to know from someone who is clearly, you know, staring down death at this point what he would have done differently or any votes he would have taken differently from his time in the Senate. Because that's definitely an active conversation. You know, someone who clearly understands the Bible and like what Christianity is really supposed to be about and how cruel many Republican policies have been, especially to the poorest and the most vulnerable amongst us. So I'm very curious about that. But that's a crazy cool thing for you.
- [46:03]
Scott Galloway
Well, let's end on a lighter note. The MAGA movement is not pleased with this weekend's SNL episode which featured an appearance by Aziz Ansari as Kash Patel. Here's a clip.
- [46:14]
Jessica Tarlev
Let me be clear. This FBI director has never been drunk or hungover on the job. This FBI director has never filled a 40 ounce travel mug with ice cold gin and a swirl of dry vermouth and six lemon peels and called it a cash teeny. This FBI director has never used taxpayer dollars to take a private jet to fly him and his girlfriend to three different Buffalo Wild Wings locations across the country to see if they could taste the difference. And this FBI director has definitely not stood on top of a couch at the VIP room of Tao Naik Club and Asian Bistro and shouted, who want the nuclear codes? Jk I ain't got him.
- [47:00]
Scott Galloway
He was great guy. A season. Sorry. Did you ever see Masters of None?
- [47:05]
Jessica Tarlev
Oh, totally. Of course.
- [47:06]
Scott Galloway
He's really good. He is really good.
- [47:08]
Jessica Tarlev
His best section, I thought, was about how he was breaking barriers as the only Indian who's actually not good at their job. And
- [47:17]
Scott Galloway
he's very.
- [47:18]
Jessica Tarlev
As Cash Patel. Yeah, he was perfect casting for it.
- [47:21]
Scott Galloway
He's very talented. So just before we go, just a note on Ben Sasse, his interview, you referenced it on 60 Minutes, really impacted me this weekend. I was really pissed off about something that had happened to me, and I was very upset, and it was kind of taking me out of my head and away from my family. And I saw that interview with Ben Sass, and he was talking about before he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. I guess he has hundreds of tumors around his spine, and he didn't know it. And he was in such intense, piercing pain that he would have to take 20 or 30 hot showers every day to just get a few minutes of relief, and then he'd have to take another scalding hot shower. And it was very helpful to me because I thought, okay, all I need to do. And I did it a couple times this weekend when I started focusing on my inconveniences that I've convinced myself of. Problems I have to imagine. All right, what if I had thousands of tumors around my spine and I was in such intense pain that I had to go into the shower right now, and it would only provide me two or three minutes of relief? Would this issue that I'm focused on mean anything? And I found it was a really helpful practice. So I got so much out of that interview because it really did provide some. Some perspective. And it also provided a practice for me. It's a weird practice. I call it now my tumor practice. But it's like that Monk saying, the man with good health has a thousand problems and the man with bad health has one problem. Anyways, I find that very useful. I call it my thousand tumor practice.
- [49:01]
Jessica Tarlev
I think that's great for you and for everyone. I'll just throw into the mix that the way that he talked about his wife and that they'll just be apart for a little while was just amazing. Like. Anyway, that's the girl vantage point. I was into the relationship stuff, but the hot showers also good.
- [49:27]
Scott Galloway
Let's leave it there, Jess.
- [49:28]
Jessica Tarlev
Okay, I'll go cry by myself now.
- [49:31]
Scott Galloway
Let's leave it there on him and his wife and a practice for perspective. I'll see you later in the week, Joss.
- [49:37]
Jessica Tarlev
Yep. See you later. Thanks, Scott.
- [49:58]
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