← Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov
What Democrats Still Don’t Get about MAGA (ft. Jordan Klepper of The Daily Show)
00:41:46
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- [00:00]
Jessica Tarlov
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- [00:16]
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- [01:15]
Jordan Klepper
The thing they get most out of MAGA is not the policies from maga, but the identity that they get within their community. And so that to me is a very important part of the movement that will shift and evolve and break. When Donald Trump perhaps they just want change. And I think that's what gets overlooked when people talk about the MAGA movement. When I go to these rallies, especially people on the left who are like, I've never been to a rally. What is that like? It's like a parade. It's the funnest thing that comes to your town. My critique is it is disconnected from the political process and it is just a party. And therefore that is something that can be wielded to deleterious effect. And yet, what a fricking party. When the show comes to town, you show.
- [02:03]
Jessica Tarlov
Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlov and I'm super excited, and you're going to be super excited that Jordan Klepper, co host of the Daily show, comedian extraordinaire, is joining me today. Jordan, thank you for accepting the invitation to moderately rage.
- [02:17]
Jordan Klepper
I'm so excited to moderately rage. Rage within the confines of moderation is the most fulfilling and responsible way to rage as a, as a 47 year old.
- [02:29]
Jessica Tarlov
Probably also the most politically useless at times. It's like we love our name so much and then it gets pushed back sometimes and I'm like, oh, is this actually a mistake? But it sounds good and the branding is good.
- [02:42]
Jordan Klepper
So like, yes, I was gonna say, like, ineffective blabber. Probably not a good name for a podcast.
- [02:48]
Jessica Tarlov
No, we will not be adding that to the Prof. G. Universe, I was gonna say.
- [02:51]
Jordan Klepper
But you know, yeah, moderation. You know, it's. That's the larger question. Does it move the needle or does it make us feel comfortable in our rational discourse? We will, we will discover what a
- [03:02]
Jessica Tarlov
plug for the show we will discuss before we start. If you haven't already, please subscribe to our YouTube page. There's a really fun community going on. We're reading all the comments. We love to hear from you. Subscribe to Raging Moderates. Today we're going to talk about the war in Iran and a lot of White House spin about it. Also, what Democrats can learn from MAGA on coalition building. You are a MAGA whisper of of sorts. It's we both have strong relationships with the MAGA coalition in different ways. I would say I want to dive right in and start talking about Iran first continues to dominate all the headlines. Obviously been seeing that on your show as well. The White House is really struggling to explain some of the more disturbing moments, even from the first day. That strike on the Iranian school that looks like killed what, 175, over 100 of them schoolgirls. Here's white House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt doing her best to attempt to explain it.
- [04:00]
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School why did President Trump say yesterday
- [04:02]
Jordan Klepper
that Iran may have have Tomahawk missiles
- [04:04]
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when there are only three other US
- [04:06]
Jordan Klepper
Allies, plus the US that have those
- [04:08]
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missiles and therefore, look again.
- [04:09]
White House Press Secretary (Caroline Levitt)
The president said yesterday he will accept the conclusion of this investigation by the Department of War. I know there's been a lot of speculation in the media about who may be responsible for this. We're not going to get ahead of the Department of War and the conclusion of that investigation. The president has a right to share his opinions with the American public. But he has said he'll accept the conclusion of that investigation. And frankly, we're not going to be harassed by the New York Times, who's been putting out a lot of articles on this, making claims that have just not been verified by the Department of War to quickly wrap up this investigation because the New York Times is calling on us to do so.
- [04:45]
Jessica Tarlov
I'm sure the Pete Hegg says stamp of approval is really what's going to define the veracity of that claim.
- [04:52]
Jordan Klepper
They will not be harassed by the New York Times. I. That's, you know, we, you. They started with a question about who murdered over 100 schoolchildren, but they ended with a real defiant, full throated defense of standing up to the New York Times. And it makes me proud to be an American to hear something like that.
- [05:08]
Jessica Tarlov
Totally the Gray lady turning in her grave. What do you. I mean, so I don't fully buy into the narrative that Caroline Levitt doesn't wear her cross when she knows that she has to go out there and tell a whopper. And frankly, if I was going to be asked about dead school kids, I would take off my shield. But how do you see her press secretary Ness or whatever? Because I mean, Kellyanne Conway is another comp. She wasn't the press secretary, but we had the alternative facts thesis and Kayleigh McEnany, who was uber prepared, right. Like always had the binders and actually had a pretty good relationship with a lot of members of the press. That would surprise you. But what do you make of Caroline Levitt, especially in these kinds of moments?
- [05:54]
Jordan Klepper
Well, first, I'm surprised she's lasted as long, but she's sort of, she does a good job performing for that audience of one and also not making the news all about herself in the way in which she approaches that fight. Because like, that's always the walk, the Trump walk. People have to make in like showing complete deference, swagginess, but not taking away from the ultimate shine. I mean, there's, I hear something like that, you know, I think that's how we all probably could have written it up a week ago if you had asked what happened with this situation. How are they going to handle, how are they gonna respond it? They're going to defer, they're going to deflect and they're gonna point fingers at the person who's asking that question. It just feels pretty par for the course. It seems more heightened and infuriated in times of war where we are, we are more. We want answers and clarity in times now more than we normally do. But it's not at all surprising in hearing how these press conferen, frankly, from a show's point of view. You know, we're always up on it, we're watching what the spin is going to be, but it doesn't provide much news for us. This is something that is now on the back burner. In the first Trump administration, it was making news in their defiance and their spin, and now it's just, it's reruns.
- [07:11]
Jessica Tarlov
We've seen this movie before. Or this. And we didn't like it, but, yeah, we voted for it again.
- [07:16]
Jordan Klepper
And she's not as fun a character as Kellyanne Conway. If we're gonna watch just the reruns of these sitco, there's a reason that, like Mary Tyler Moore show, still fun to watch again. Cheers is still good. The characters pop. They're wild. There's Woody in Cheers. He's still hilarious and what have you. Kellyanne Conway, you also had the palace intrigue. What was going on back at home and watching that fight play out. I think in some ways this feels like a more boring, more derivative at times, just par for the course. Audacious take at how to spin the Trump administration.
- [07:50]
Jessica Tarlov
It's probably better for Trump, honestly, that it's not as much of a show and that he has some semblance of a professionalization. I mean, you mentioned that it doesn't give you much fodder for the show because this is the expectation. What has been giving you the best fodder? Like, when you guys sit down to write or on a week when you're hosting, what are you gravitating towards?
- [08:12]
Jordan Klepper
Well, I, I wish we had less and less stuff to talk about. People often say, like, oh, you must be so happy with all of the ripe comedy that is out there. And quite frankly, I pine for the days of yore where the news was boring, as were the characters. And therefore, we got to craft a story and a point of view based around some bigger topics that we could dive into and craft over a few days. But now we're chasing the chaos of the news cycle. What's fascinating about this Trump administration is we internally talk about how there are so many more characters that are known to our audience. You know, just from a purely functional standpoint, when you are communicating comedy to an audience, you're basing it also on, like, what is their baseline knowledge of who is in this administration? And everybody knows Donald Trump. They know some of these main characters. But unlike most administrations and even the first Donald Trump administration, you now have the RFK juniors, you have the Pete Hegseths. You know, it starts to expand into a cabinet where, where an audience in the older days might know one or two cabinet members, but now they have a working knowledge of the Christine Oems, of the Marco Rubios, of the Hegsets, the RFKs, and therefore, it's much quicker to talk about them and get on the same page about those people within that. So we are always looking, we've, I think, expanded more as to what the administration is covering and these other characters are covering outside of just the Trump chaos. And so each day we sort of take a check in as to, like, where is the character, where are the characters? Where is the chaos? And also, you know, where's the heat of the day? The morning starts with us looking at what the headlines are, what people are talking about, and then approaching it through a comedic lens as to what is it, a what is what can we actually add to this conversation or have something to say? And then we go from there.
- [10:02]
Jessica Tarlov
Yeah. So one narrative at least, that feels hot to this raging moderate is watching a fracture even within the pretty high ranks of Trump support over this war. So you have like, Senator John Kennedy goes and does an interview on CNN where he says, like, investigate the shooting, the missile strike on the school all you want, it was us, and I feel terrible about it. And then you have someone like Lindsey Graham who is always good for comedy, who has not gotten the memo about shifting the goalposts. And I don't know if you saw this interview on Hannity, but I want to play you a clip of it and talk a little bit about, like, the old neocon world in Trump orbit. So let's look at that.
- [10:48]
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All the anti Semites to all the isolationists. I don't.
- [10:52]
Jordan Klepper
Forget it. I'm not with you. I'm with Israel. I will be with Israel to our dying day. They're the best ally we could hope for. So we have a commander in chief and President Trump who I think is Ronald Reagan. Plus plus, plus
- [11:06]
Jessica Tarlov
oh, you don't say. Lindsey, have another glass of chardonnay. What do you do with Lindsey Graham?
- [11:15]
Jordan Klepper
Yeah, I mean, I think you keep pouring those glasses of wine, let him do his thing, Prod him about going to war with Iran. I think that's his happy place. Put him on tv, a little bit tipsy, talking about being a warmonger, and he goes, I mean, you saw him on the plane with Trump a few weeks ago. He was so, so giddy. He was frothing at the mouth. And I, you know, he's somebody who, who wears his biases on his sleeve. We've known him for, for years. It is still so remarkable to see somebody like him. And his, his proximity to power is so necessary for it's his lifeblood. It's like, yeah, it's like his, his ring of, it says, it's a Frodo reference in here somewhere, that if you take it away and he just withers away and dies. And so to watch him constantly go towards that flame and to, to do whatever he can to be the Donald Trump lapdog. There's so many who find themselves there and just have to be in that orbit and have to talk that talk. But I think you speak to something that is really compelling for us and at the show we're always looking at is how is the Republican Party not only spinning this, but where are they landing in both accountability for this war and how they feel about this supposedly America first agenda? We're not surprised by what Lindsey Graham does, but we are surprised by some of these, you know, the Tucker Carlson narratives, the Ben Shapiro narratives. They're really, that's been something we've always been watching for a while to see, like, is there actually going to be a shift in this, this MAGA base? There's at least conversation within it. And I think right now, you know, I watch that with bated breath.
- [12:49]
Jessica Tarlov
Yeah, I mean, we are focusing on it too, here at the show, but also on Fox, you know, we talk about this division with the MAGA base. Does it translate into votes? I mean, as someone who wants to win elections, I'm always like, all right, guys, like, let's not get too excited yet because they would tell you, be the first to tell you, like if the alternative is Kamala Harris or something like that, that they're not going to go for it. But how much, I guess, do you think that that fissure has legs going forward in a Trump less world on top of the ticket? Because as Steve Bannon tells me, that he's running for a third term, but I'm going to go with, he is not running for a third term. And did you see, by the way, that he's been asking members of the cabinet and influential advisers if they want Marco Rubio and J.D. vance? And it's like unanimously Marco Rubio.
- [13:38]
Jordan Klepper
And he's going to hold. I mean, this is, you know, in some ways, it's what's going to be beautiful. It's going to be detrimental to his party. But he's going to wait. He knows as soon as he says, okay, I'm not running, I want Marco to be the guy. I want J.D. to be the guy. I want Don Jr. To be the guy. Whenever he says that thing, the attention moves away from him. So he will hold onto it so long and it will not be helpful for either of the people that he wants to be in charge, but he will hold on that vanity. Oh, the stupidity and the vanity is the thing that I always hold onto. I've lost clinging for morality or common sense or true belief in the Constitution as a way to pull us back towards any amount of sanity and goodwill. And I really cling to, I cling to that stupidity and that vanity as a real. That's the crack that the light comes through more often than not. It's like, oh, they want some authoritarian regime, they want this power. But sometimes that vanity and that stupidity, I don't think if they know exactly how to get there. And I hope that is an American ideal that really saves us in the end.
- [14:46]
Jessica Tarlov
I mean, Donald Trump is the American dream in a lot of ways, right? Like a sad boy from Queens makes good, gets to move to Manhattan and, and then move to the people's house. But you know, it has been interesting to see and I think it is, to your point, part of this reflection on him or his vanity. When a cabinet member or someone in the close orbit goes too far. So like Kristi Noem obviously went too far. He was like, grift, that's only for me and my family. Or like Ash Patel smashing beers with the hockey team and taking the private jet for that. Those were things that actually upset him. And we even had our first cabinet secretary leave. I mean, this story about The Pentagon spending $93 billion in September on steak and king crab legs and I get it, when troops are going to deploy, you get a nice meal and I, you deserve that. Like, thank you for your service and all of the things. But it was also for furniture. $93 billion in a month. You know, use it or lose it. I, I'm buying like new cheap readers at Duane Reade. Right. Like, it's not the same kind of thing.
- [15:55]
Jordan Klepper
Splurge, go to Warby Parker. You know, it's a nice middle range. Go for it. You deserve it.
- [16:00]
Jessica Tarlov
But what do you, what do you think is the turning point moment for him with these people? Like with the Kristi gnomes or does Pete Hegseth, I mean, at war, obviously not going to be the end. But like, when do you think it transfers over into the we can't have you anymore. PAM bondi, EPSTEIN FILES Like, I was
- [16:20]
Jordan Klepper
really surprised by the gnome situation because I do think something he has learned from a political standpoint, again, not from a accountability standpoint, but it felt like Donald Trump's superpower is his lack of shame. And that allows him to act with impunity and not be so caught up in accountability. And therefore it seemed as if like he regretted this first term of being told by some people this person has brought shame. They've Made a mistake, therefore let them go in this term. I think that has been a successful game plan from his administration standpoint of not giving in to Signalgate with Pete Hegseth, of still standing firm with all this. I think we're seeing it play out now with Iran. Levitt is kicking the can on what happened with this Tomahawk missile. And I think they will probably kick the can. But it seems from a political standpoint, don't admit wrongdoing and you admit that by firing. So I, you know, if you had talked to me a week and a half ago, I don't, I don't think there was a line for Donald Trump to, to truly turn on some of these folks if the narrative gets so bad. But again, he controls the people he's talking to. He controls that narrative. He doesn't want to give them any kind of ammunition to push back on them being wrong about it. And so it is remarkable. I think what I learned from the gnome thing is, you know, she, she spoke out of turn with whose responsibility it was to, to greenlight the spending of all of that cash. And I think like her vanity outdid Trump's vanity. I don't think it's going to be reckless political choices. I think it's going to be getting in the way of the spotlight for him. He wants all of it. He also feels like a man who knows that the spotlight is dimming, as is the sand in the hourglass. And so anybody who takes away a little bit of that shine puts themselves in a position where they could be crossing that, ooh, that, that tiniest of lines.
- [18:18]
Jessica Tarlov
Implicit in everything that we're talking about is that there is an opposition party and there's been a lot of criticism. I think they're more unpopular than AI Is right now, even from people who have lost their jobs to AI So
- [18:35]
Jordan Klepper
the Democratic Party more unpopular than AI but, but, but who run that? I mean, yes, whatever AI is and who ran that statistical analysis? You know, they ran it through AI And AI is putting their thumb or whatever AI has on the scale. So, you know, we take it with a grain of salt.
- [18:53]
Jessica Tarlov
Okay, you're right. Everything's going great. But how do you think Democrats are handling the moment?
- [19:01]
Jordan Klepper
I think they are. They're holding on. They seem pretty wide eyed. I think there seems to be a decent amount of attempts as to how to frame this. I mean, look, politically, they all seem to be getting the same memo of we need to put the focus on kitchen, like stop the culture wars. Let's talk about affordability. Let's focus on these kinds of things. I don't know if we're talking about what they need to do to actually build trust and belief in the Democratic Party. The only place I've seen that in the last two years is here in New York and Zoran, like, I think that has felt authentic. It went against what everybody and also the money was telling you would happen within this town. And I saw people actually energized. Again, I live in New York City, so I am biased by what I see around me. But the Democratic Party and humans in general are in need of authenticity. I think it's less an argument about how far left are they. What should these tactics be? I think it's authenticity. Who's somebody who gives a shit? Who is somebody who will fight on their own terms and be able to articulate it to people who are actually in this morass that we are in. We feel like the sky is falling. We feel that things are unaffordable. And we think that there's too much of the chaos being fought on strictly a political level. We want somebody who can connect to us and articulate that. That can come from the political class, definitely. But I think the deeper you are into the political class right now, the less and less you lose the shine of authentic and by necessity and just by the reality of exposure. We live in a time right now where people get exposed and burned out within six months. We want freshness, we want newness. And I think the Democratic Party, I've seen cracks of it, feeling like the Democratic Party people want. When you see young faces come onto the scene and articulate something authentic, or the very old Bernie Sanders is the one example, too, of somebody else who's like, oh, there's still a resonance there. And I think that's because authenticity is the king of the realm.
- [21:11]
Jessica Tarlov
Absolutely.
- [21:11]
Jordan Klepper
Coin of the realm, whatever. Some realm. There's a king, there's a coin.
- [21:15]
Jessica Tarlov
Non binary.
- [21:16]
Jordan Klepper
There's money involved in it. I know there's a lot of money. There's always money.
- [21:20]
Jessica Tarlov
That's for sure. Grassroots or corporate PAC money. But that's that point that you're making is a bipartisan one, because Trump has that too, even though it's a scam. And you're very much the MAGA whisperer of the Daily show, always fingering the pulse for us. Love what you did there. Do you? What do you think is going on, like, in their heads? Like the people who you've met at all these rallies, and I was watching old clips Prepping for today of, you know, everything from around 2020, you know, running after people in the insurrection. And the theme is, even though you often give them their own rope to hang themselves, right? Like you're not actually making fun of fun of anyone. You're letting them speak their truth and then hopefully getting to that moment of realization where they say, like, you know, read the transcript. And you're like, did you read the transcript? And they're like, somebody I know, read the transcript. This economic populism, this desire for authenticity, is it going to just be the way forward for politics generally, or do you think that there are still going to be those that are itching for the old mold?
- [22:27]
Jordan Klepper
It's always curious. We're always wondering, is there, is there a line with the MAGA folks as to. To when they will let of what this movement means to them and look at their pocketbook and change parties or vote, vote in a different direction? And I think in some ways that is a fabrication of what is actually happening out there. A lot of the people that I talk to are in the MAGA movement because it is their identity and that is more important to them than what politics means to them. In fact, it's almost insincere to debate politics with so many people who are in that MAGA movement because the politics is just almost the. Almost the gibberish used to portray and perform their allegiance to an identity, to being a part of something. And so whether or not little moments have changed and gas prices have gone up, I think they will earnestly feel that. But their experience of being a MAGA supporter is actually separate from the effects of government. They don't see those as connected. In fact, the thing that get most out of MAGA is not the policies from MAGA but the identity that they get within their community. And so that, to me is a very important part of the movement that will shift and evolve and break when Donald Trump perhaps leaves. But the economic reality, I think is very true and real. And a lot of the people I talk to outside of the more extreme MAGA folks, they just want change. I think that is so American. I think seeing incumbents win is a thing of the past. And yes, we will get into the weeds of what is this party going to do or what have you. I think more often than not, Americans feel like they don't like the status quo. They don't get what they want. They deserve more that they are not getting and the people in power are failing them and letting them down. And more often than not, that is a selfish pursuit, looking at what their economic problems are, and therefore they vote from that perspective. And so I do think there will be a continual cycle of going back and back to these economic populism talking points. But I also think the American public is constantly frustrated with those who are in charge outside of this charismatic authoritarian figure who is sort of swept up in this. But I think almost more powerful than that is our inability to trust that the people in charge are looking out for us. And that just keeps getting. That story gets told to us over and over again. And I do think that was more baked into the initial story of Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton than we give it credit for. I think that was sort of the sentiment of what was happening. There were so many things about Donald Trump at the time. And looking back on it, they continue to be. But more often than not, there's people who want change. And that really, to me, is more often than not the conversation that I hear out there whenever I talk to people.
- [25:15]
Jessica Tarlov
Yeah, change in community, for sure. I mean, I remember Mom Donnie's scavenger hunt, which was just such a wildly fun political organizing tool. And especially for young people who are suffering so much from too much screen time. Right. And the loneliness epidemic. It gets the old and it gets the young.
- [25:36]
Jordan Klepper
Fun. Fun is. Fun is a big word, too. And I think that's what gets overlooked when people talk about the MAGA movement. When I go to these rallies, like, especially people on the left who are like, I've never been to a rally. What is that like? It's like a parade. It's the funnest thing that comes to your town.
- [25:50]
Jessica Tarlov
The RNC was like Disneyland for these people.
- [25:56]
Jordan Klepper
It is. You know, my critique is it is disconnected from the political process and it is just a party. And therefore, that is something that can be wielded to deleterious effect. And yet, what a fricking party. When the show comes to town, you show up, and again, you are a part of something. You put on a hat, you get to play a game. You get to sing along to the chorus of the song you've heard before. And more importantly, you meet other people who like something that you like. It's a thing that we all search for constantly. And you are right. Like, Mahdani is like, I'm going to make a game. Will you show up and meet other people? Dear Lord, I want anybody in my life to give me an opportunity right now to go meet strangers in my community who I share one thing in common with. And I think that's such an important part of politics and so few people know how to wield that. And again, it comes through authenticity. And Trump is, Trump knew how to do it. He's a showman.
- [26:47]
Jessica Tarlov
Absolutely. It does make me think about the playground, right? Like you're, you're, you talk to the parents, right. And you just want to see your kids having fun. It's the same thing. And that no one gets hurt.
- [26:57]
Jordan Klepper
But one of those yesterday, yesterday we, we are, we have time, I have time off this week and all I want is like somebody just tell me one place to be that I can take my family to. We can meet other people and we
- [27:08]
Jessica Tarlov
can spend three hours because pay whatever you tell me it costs.
- [27:13]
Jordan Klepper
I will vote against my own interest if you give me a mission and a purpose right here and now.
- [27:19]
Jessica Tarlov
Take away my healthcare. If you give me a zipline 100%,
- [27:23]
Jordan Klepper
you can have it all.
- [27:24]
Jessica Tarlov
Let's take a quick break. Stay with us. Support for the show comes from Sol. It's hard work to build up healthy habits and the strict schedule that you have to keep isn't making it any easier. But when you find the time to unwind, instead of pouring yourself a cocktail, reach for Sole. Sole makes feeling good simple. They make delicious hemp derived CBD and THC products with precise dosing, clean ingredients and formulations designed for predictable feel good effects. Sol is the alcohol alternative that puts you in control of your mood. Their best selling out of office gummies deliver a customizable calming buzz. From a 1.5mg microdose for a gentle lift to 15mg for a deeper, more elevated experience. It's the easiest way to unwind without the grogginess or next day regret of alcohol. And if you prefer to sip on something tasty, the new out of office beverage offers the same smooth social vibe in a refreshing alcohol free drink. Perfect for happy hours dinners or just taking it easy on the couch. Give yourself the gift of a healthier unwind. Right now, Sol is offering our audience 30% off your entire order. Go to getsoul.com and use the code moderate. That's getsol.com promo code moderates for 30% off.
- [28:42]
Kara Swisher
Hey, Kara Swisher here. I want to let you know that Vox Media is returning to south by Southwest in Austin for live tapings of your favorite podcast. Join us from March 13th through the 15th for live tapings of today explained Teffy Talks, Prof. G Markets and of course your two favorite podcasts, Pivot and On with Kara Swisher the stage will also feature sessions from Brene Brown and Adam Grant, Marques Brownlee, Keith Lee, Vivian Tu and Robin Arzon. It's all part of the Vox Media Podcast stage at south by Southwest, presented by Odoo. Visit voxmedia.comsxsw to pre register and get your special discount on your Innovation Badge. That's Vox. To register, really you should register. We sell out and we hope to see you there.
- [29:40]
Jordan Klepper
Ambassador Rahm Emanuel served as President Obama's chief of staff, an administration that had to deal with its fair share of global conflicts. He dealt directly with Israel's Prime Minister and thought plenty about the threat from Iran. But Emmanuel told me that the pace of action from this president in the Middle east is giving him whiplash. In 15 months this president has taken military action against eight countries. Now we got three more years to go. In 15 months Iran twice. But you have Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Venezuela. Now I'm losing Nigeria today explained in your feed every weekday and on Saturdays too.
- [30:29]
Jessica Tarlov
Welcome back. I want to talk to you before I shift gears a little bit about a particular community within the MAGA base And that's the QAnon folks and you have spent a lot of time with them. And I am probably going to regret saying this but was QAnon right about the Epstein files? I realize it's gonna get clipped up and will live with me forever but I mean they had the Hillary Clinton pizza place wrong but it seems like they have been pretty vindicated on the Epstein files and it's just had this knock on effect that they now see some of them, Trump as actually part of the Epstein class. Right. Because he is the one who is blocking the release of these files. So what's your take on on current day QAnon?
- [31:14]
Jordan Klepper
They also thought Donald Trump was the savior who was going to come forward and continue and reveal himself. And that's the thing with QAnon. They threw a thousand things at the wall, you know, 990 some odd continue to be disproven or pushed to it. It'll happen next week. It'll happen next week. But I think the underlying distrust of those in power is palpable and real. And the Epstein files is a, is a great example of again I don't give this to QAnon but their, their distrust is something that is being, is being realized by the masses of what the powerful do, what the powerful are capable of doing and how they associate with one another. And yeah it is, it is remarkable. I'm sure they feel right now in their Basement somewhat vindicated. It's curious. When I go out, it's hard to. QAnon also morphed into just a symbol on the road. And so it is stuff you see on bumper stickers and what have you that became something where some people would be all in. When I would talk to people on the road, some people would just be using it sort of as a. As a moniker for, like, screw the man. Like this. This is their own punk rock element. And for many as well, this was just their. Their hobby. I talked to so many people who were. I talked to grandmothers who were into this Q world because it provided them space to put their distrust and their ample amount of free time into trying to discover something. And so that was always fun for people to try to uncover some sort of mystery that they could be sort of a part of this only murders in the building moment, but for themselves and on the dark web. So I understand the pull and the draw to it all. I haven't seen where it has evolved to, but I think a lot of those themes have sort of spilled over into this mainstream conversation.
- [33:08]
Jessica Tarlov
Yeah. And I am full of regret that I said, Was QAnon right, but you are.
- [33:13]
Jordan Klepper
That's. That's gonna haunt you.
- [33:14]
Jessica Tarlov
It's a cancelable offense
- [33:18]
Jordan Klepper
or. Or an opportunity. Trust me. There's. You know, there are a lot of people.
- [33:22]
Jessica Tarlov
There's money to be made in Russia and Qatar, if you go with a certain line of argumentation.
- [33:30]
Jordan Klepper
Also, let me tell if you are a progressive and you want to make money quick, a progressive who quickly turns and says, you know what? I think progressives are wrong. All the far right, you. You can make a quick buck. So quick.
- [33:40]
Jessica Tarlov
Annoy the fuck out of me. And they're always like, oh, why don't you want to. Come on. I don't want to, like, call people out, but you know what I'm talking about. Oh, well, you don't want to come in and debate them. I'm like, no, it's completely bad faith. It's like what the right is supposed to be doing. I hate it on my side of
- [33:58]
Jordan Klepper
the fence, but that also comes down to economic insecurity. And I see it and I feel it. And I know people where we all feel like we are on such a razor's edge of finding a way to support our families and the people we love in the upcoming months. And therefore, if you find something that works and that pays you, you retroactively create a mind space where this is the righteous choice. But you are still you Know, at my most empathetic, I understand the choices being made to take care of yourself. You found a way to pay the rent in America. God bless. That's harder and harder these days, and you see it. And right now, to do that, you become an influencer. You become a publisher in some sort of way, whether that is on a podcast, on a Facebook feed, in some sort of public manner, and you find the point of view that will reward you financially as fast as you can, and then you figure out morality afterwards. And I see it happening in so many places. It dictates the conversations we have. I think sometimes we just need to stop and say the whole system is set up for this conversation to be done in bad faith. And that is what we are taking a part of right now.
- [35:03]
Jessica Tarlov
It's actually a perfect segue into what I wanted to talk about next, which is kind of the state of media and the state of news. Obviously, the independent factors are big. You know, we're talking on a podcast now, which is owned by a media company, but we can still say fuck and do what we want. And, you know, there's been a lot of eyes on the Ellisons who own Comedy Central. They're probably going to own a lot more soon. What do you think that merger means for the future of News and kind of how are you thinking about the landscape?
- [35:39]
Jordan Klepper
Well, it's so interesting from a Daily show perspective. We've gone through a lot of changes in the last 10 years. For me, on the show. I got on the show and then John left, and then there was a search for a host, and then Trevor came on the show and then Trevor hosted, and then there was Covid that we got off the air and we started doing stuff from our homes. And then there was a writers strike. So there was six months where we weren't doing shows, and then Trevor left, and then there was a host search, and so we tried to figure out who was going to be the host, and people were auditioning. And then John comes back and now there's this. Now there's a handful of us who are hosting the show. So we have sort of lived in this world of uncertainty at the Daily show and just plowed ahead. Where I have felt lucky in that we have not felt the hand of someone telling us what we can or cannot say. And actually, I find a lot of pride in my Late Night brethren in being very vocal about the BS wherever you see it. And whenever we feel that outside pressure from conglomerates and big organizations, I think late night has been pretty vocal about that. So that I take a lot of pride in and feel confident about. But I'm always worried about anybody consolidating power and always worried about where the limitations on speech are, you know, and watching any kind of corporation having to kowtow to an administration who wants to put their thumb on the scale, you have to watch that incredibly closely. I think I feel very lucky that we get to say what we want to do. And when that becomes limited and changed, like, that's when it's time to. That's when it's time to step out or to make a stink. And so, yeah, we are in perilous times. And I hope that, I hope that those who have the opportunity to speak to that and are in positions of power continue to do so.
- [37:30]
Jessica Tarlov
You may be in perilous times, or we may be, I should say, but your show is doing astronomically well. And there was a piece last week about how you guys are kind of the only ones that are gaining Gen Z viewers, that they're actually. I mean, your YouTube channel is massive. But even watching the show, finding a way to a television, or at least, you know, streaming it, what's the secret sauce, you think, to getting young people to engage with an old school television format?
- [38:05]
Jordan Klepper
We stumbled on a way to make it work for us in that, like I said, we've had such unique iterations over the last five years. Trevor came in and immediately brought an interest in going digital in a way that the Daily show didn't have before. To be clear, the Daily show is an institution we've been around for almost 30 years. So like, it's important to have a brand that people can turn to. But then we had this injection of fresh eyes to go digital and then we also had all of this changeover that forced us to sort of think modularly. And what I feel really lucky about is like, like I get to reach people on three different levels. the Daily show. When I host, I get to sort of control day of news, news of the day, jokes on that point of view and craft an eight minute monologue that can also be clipped up into something that young people will see in 20 second clips or four minute clips. I also get to go out into the field and do four minute clips that are based on one experience in the world. I also get to do 30 minute specials that people can sit down that can do deep dives into what's happening with Russia, influence on American elections. All very different ways in which people can engage with this content. But I'll Run into people on the road. And I always laugh when people recognize me. If they're over 50, they'll say, I love you on the Daily Show. If they're between like 30 and 50, they're like, oh, I love your YouTube. And everybody under 30 is like, I love your content.
- [39:40]
Jessica Tarlov
Just the broad category of content.
- [39:41]
Jordan Klepper
The broad category of content. And at first I used to bristle at that. And you have to always be careful in this media landscape. You're losing context all the time. Especially when I did a show that was a satirical show that leaned into character. You have to be careful because context is being stripped away on all of these platforms. And yet I think the Daily show has figured out a way to do stuff for people who are watching at home. And we still have a really loyal fan base of people who want to check in every night and who are watching on cable television. And that will, I think that will exist for a while. The numbers are, are not necessarily growing, but they are, they are strong.
- [40:19]
Jessica Tarlov
It looks like it is.
- [40:20]
Jordan Klepper
We have had, we have had linear growth, which is such an anomaly in this day and age.
- [40:25]
Jessica Tarlov
Yeah, I, I would lean into it, I think. I mean, I'm also, you know, desperately trying to hold on to my own job, but when everyone's like, cable is dead, I'm like, well, and not really. I mean, some, some people are dying, which means there will be less cable news viewers. But your viewers are younger than my viewers on the five.
- [40:43]
Jordan Klepper
I think we have, we have young people who will watch a clip on, on, on YouTube or TikTok and get a sense and then go for the whole show on YouTube or then want to check in because we're talking about a day of. At 11 o'. Clock. And so we really have lots of different access points that has, that has connected because people will always tell you about the death of media in this way and that way. There have never been more people who have wanted with late night shows. And to hear that point of view and in the world that we're in right now, people are contacting and connecting with comedians who are talking about the news more than ever. It's just about figuring out the best way to deliver that information and that content to them. Content. You hear me saying it, it feels weird to say content.
- [41:24]
Jessica Tarlov
But we're all just creators, Jordan.
- [41:26]
Jordan Klepper
We're all just creators.
- [41:27]
Jessica Tarlov
Yeah. This was awesome. Thank you for your time. I, you know, I'm a huge fan. Obviously Scott is too, that you got him to cry like that when he came on.
- [41:37]
Jordan Klepper
That was beautiful. Wasn't it?
- [41:39]
Jessica Tarlov
I know. He's such a softy. Yeah. And I mean, the book is great and obviously when you're writing essentially about your sons and a love letter to your sons, it's gonna get you emotional. But it was a very sweet whatever. You had eight minutes together.
- [41:54]
Jordan Klepper
So he was. I think that is a lovely book and an important book. So it was wonderful to get a chance to talk to him. And you always, you want to crack that shell. If you can get tears, I get bonuses. If I can make people cry or storm.
- [42:08]
Jessica Tarlov
Oh, is that the secret formula?
- [42:09]
Jordan Klepper
10 grand just like that?
- [42:11]
Jessica Tarlov
Oh, I like it. I'm just gonna start crying on air and see if I can get money.
- [42:15]
Jordan Klepper
Get.
- [42:16]
Jessica Tarlov
Maybe you'll go fund me to save my little liberal soul. Jordan Klepper, you rage beautifully and moderately. Thank you.
- [42:25]
Jordan Klepper
Thank you. Thank you. Jessica. Sam.