What Life After Trump Could Look Like (ft. Pete Buttigieg)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Raging Moderates" with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov

Episode: What Life After Trump Could Look Like (ft. Pete Buttigieg)
Date: March 19, 2026
Network: Vox Media Podcast Network

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Overview

In this episode, co-hosts Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov are joined by former Secretary of Transportation and 2020 presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg to discuss the potential future of America after the Trump era. The conversation spans the Trump administration’s handling of foreign policy—specifically the ongoing war with Iran—defense spending, the Democratic Party’s direction post-Trump, economic pressures on Americans, tax policy fairness, health care reform, the nuanced challenges of military service, and the need for a new political and social contract in an era defined by rapid technological change.

The tone is thoughtful, direct, and critical—rooted in a desire for pragmatic, moderate solutions—and frequently highlights the gap between political rhetoric and the real-world impacts on American families.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Trump Administration and the War with Iran

Timestamps: 03:28 – 14:50

• War Without a Plan: Buttigieg criticizes the Trump administration for launching military action against Iran with “amateur hour” decision-making and a lack of mission clarity.
  • "I mean, it sounds more like the Iraqi information minister that many of us remember from the early 2000s. Or a Soviet propaganda minister, not a serious American leader, which is really disturbing because this is a serious American situation." — Buttigieg (04:18)
• Economic and Social Costs: Emphasizes direct and indirect costs—$200 billion supplemental funding, higher prices, and strained troops.
  • "It's something like 600 bucks for every man, woman, and child in this country, on top of what's already the largest Pentagon budget in history, of all, for a war that the American people didn't ask for and don't want." — Buttigieg (04:26)
• Parallels to Vietnam and Afghanistan: Buttigieg draws from his own military experience, warning that wars often escalate beyond initial intentions.
• Accountability & Confusion: Highlights dysfunction and lack of cohesion within the Trump administration; decisions seem to arise from Mar-a-Lago, not the White House itself (09:05+).

2. Mission Clarity and America's Role Abroad

Timestamps: 07:17 – 08:27

• Mission should focus on keeping the U.S. safe, preventing Iranian nuclear capability, and containing malign regional activities—not on regime change.
• Diplomacy, once effective through the Iran nuclear deal, was abandoned for unpredictable military interventions.
  • "We do need to keep the homeland safe ... that means making sure that Iran never gets a nuclear weapon, which, by the way, was achieved by diplomacy before the first Trump administration blew that up ..." — Buttigieg (07:23)

3. Handling Military Action and Defense Spending

Timestamps: 10:42 – 14:50

• Buttigieg contends that military action requires imminent threat and multilateral consensus, which are absent here.
  • "There are certainly a lot of scenarios where military action could be appropriate against this regime. It’s just we're not in one of them." (11:06)
• Questioning a $1.1 trillion Pentagon budget, Buttigieg supports a strong military but calls out waste and the contradiction in spending heavily without delivering strategic peace.

4. The Democratic Party’s Vision Post-Trump

Timestamps: 14:50 – 18:09

• Warns against defining Democratic identity solely by opposition to Trump; a proactive governing vision is essential.
  • "Our party is still struggling to have this idea of what happens when Trump leaves the scene as a beginning point. Instead of the be all, end all goal of what we're doing." — Buttigieg (15:48)
• Points to opportunities—and urgency—in forming a new social contract, particularly amid advances in AI and shifting economic paradigms.
• Calls for greater outreach, especially beyond traditional media and into everyday spaces where generational narratives form (sports, culture, digital platforms).

5. Policy Priorities for Democrats

Timestamps: 21:46 – 24:40

• Core Policies Buttigieg Supports:
  • Expanding ACA premium support.
  • Family-centered policies (pre-K, parental leave, portable benefits).
  • Tax code reform so the wealthy pay their fair share.
  • Adapting to AI disruption, ensuring broad sharing of new technological wealth.
  • Democracy strengthening reforms, including campaign finance and reducing money’s influence in politics.
• On AI: "On artificial intelligence, one of two things is going to happen. Either it's going to lead to a shorter workweek and more money in your pocket ... or it's going to lead to even more extreme concentrations of wealth and power ..." — Buttigieg (22:42)

6. Fair Taxation and Closing Loopholes

Timestamps: 24:40 – 28:10

• Quote: "Not only is it a real problem that billionaires are paying less percentage wise than ... firefighters or teachers, but ... billionaires are paying much less than millionaires." — Buttigieg (24:40)
• Advocates for closing billionaire/corporate loopholes, implementing minimums and potentially a well-calibrated wealth tax, but resists excessive top marginal rates from past generations.

7. Health Care: Toward a "Medicare for All Who Want It" Model

Timestamps: 28:10 – 30:30

• Buttigieg reinforces his 2020 campaign platform—creating a public health insurance payer alongside private options.
  • "I'm for setting up a public payer. I'm skeptical of the idea that you should just make everybody do it on day one." — Buttigieg (28:52)
• Identifies need to simplify healthcare bureaucracy (potentially using AI) and to regulate vertical integration among insurers and providers that drives costs up.

8. Real-World Economic Pressure & Outreach

Timestamps: 30:30 – 33:54

• Buttigieg recounts conversations with real families in the Midwest: rising housing, energy, and health costs burden everyone, not just coastal elites.
• Democrats’ challenge: "A lot more people feel like nobody hears them when they're saying how squeezed they are." — Buttigieg (31:53)
• Notable anecdote: Even in deep-red districts, Democratic events are drawing bigger crowds than Trump, signaling a potential realignment.

9. Reframing the “Woke and Weak” Narrative

Timestamps: 33:54 – 34:33

• Buttigieg argues that voters’ focus is shifting to economic pragmatism over identity politics.
  • "I think that they are more interested in who's going to make their life better ... a lot of folks took a chance on this president ... not expecting things to be shaken up at their expense." (33:57)

10. Young Men, Opportunity, and National Service

Timestamps: 34:33 – 38:10

• Addresses the crisis facing young men and the gap between available pathways (like elite education) and real opportunity.
• Advocates military or broad-based civilian service (e.g., AmeriCorps), not for everyone, but as a way to foster unity, skills, and societal trust.
  • "Military service isn't for everybody and you need to go in with your eyes wide open ... but what you get in return ... is the knowledge that you have contributed to this country's defense and survival and so much more." — Buttigieg (35:29)
• Broader service programs can serve both societal and personal development needs, especially for young men at a crossroads.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Policy Over Personality:

  • "If there's issue after issue where two thirds of Americans are with us and we're not always getting 50% in the election, how are we talking about these things and where are we talking about these things?" — Buttigieg (17:38)

• On the Costs of War:

  • "Now just every day, at least a billion dollars that we all literally paid going into the furnace of this conflict." — Buttigieg (05:25)

• On Reaching New Voters:

  • "Sports and culture and comedy venues that are actually how a lot of younger people form their impression about what's happening in the world ... if we're not reaching out and engaging there, we're going to be left behind." — Buttigieg (17:54)

• On Service and National Unity:

  • "I think we would be better off if more Americans had the experience of working together on something hard. ... That's why I'm a big believer in extending more opportunities for service in more ways. Military is great for many people. If that's not for you, we should have more opportunities for volunteer service ..." — Buttigieg (36:22)

• On Democratic Messaging:

  • "Our job is to explain how your life gets better and more affordable when we have fairer taxes, when we have more support for healthcare, all of those things that we need." — Buttigieg (34:16)

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Final Reflections (Hosts)

Timestamps: 38:10 – 40:17

• Both Galloway and Tarlov praise Buttigieg’s authenticity, his ability to communicate hard truths, and his value as a positive, rational force in American politics.
• Galloway: "I think the country's in desperate need of making intelligence and decency cool again. And I think he does that... He's fact based, he's logical, he's rational, he's a critical thinker. I just think he's a great voice for a new generation of Democrats." (39:25)
• Tarlov admires Buttigieg's talent for reaching diverse audiences and his willingness to admit party missteps—a rare and valuable attribute.

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Segment Timestamps

• [03:28] – Buttigieg on Trump’s “amateur hour” approach to war
• [04:22] – Cost of military action and economic impacts
• [05:29] – The risk of escalation (“boots on the ground”)
• [07:17] – Need for mission clarity; challenges of regime change
• [09:05] – Dysfunction in the Trump administration’s war room
• [10:42] – Should there have been any military response to Iran?
• [13:57] – Should America spend $1.1 trillion on defense?
• [15:48] – The Democrats’ existential question after Trump
• [17:38] – Messaging disconnect: issues vs. election outcomes
• [21:46] – Key Democratic policy priorities
• [24:40] – Tax reform: loopholes, fairness, and the “middle rich”
• [28:49] – Health care: public payer vs. single payer
• [31:05] – Insights from Midwest voters: cost pressures, realignment
• [33:57] – Voters’ real priorities: economic improvement over “woke” labels
• [35:29] – Military service, youth opportunity, and national cohesion
• [38:10] – Final reflections from hosts on Buttigieg’s impact

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Takeaway

This episode provided a substantive, nuanced, and refreshingly candid exploration of what moderate political leadership could look like in America’s near future and why post-Trump Democrats need more than “not Trump” to win and govern. Buttigieg’s blend of realism, policy specificity, and attention to grassroots concerns sets a template for how moderates might effectively bridge political divides, restore trust, and lead in a polarized era.

Transcript

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[Pete Buttigieg]

not guaranteed I think our party is still struggling to have this idea of what happens when Trump leaves the scene as a beginning point. Instead of the be all, end all goal of what we're doing. By the way, I think an increasing number of Republicans are doing. If you look at the defection of Marjorie Taylor Greene, if you look at the Indiana State House Republicans defying the president on redistricting, I think what a lot of them are thinking to themselves is, you know what? I'm going to be in politics longer than he is. And yet that's actually a real struggle for Democrats, I think, because we are understandably so horrified by all of the abuses that are going on right now. But it's just not enough.

[Scott Galloway]

Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Scott Galloway.

[Jessica Tarlov]

And I'm Jessica Tarlov.

[Scott Galloway]

Joining us today is someone who's been part of the national conversation for a while now, first as Mayor Pete, then as a presidential candidate, and most recently as Secretary of transportation. But more than that, he's been one of the few Democrats consistently trying to answer the questions, what actually comes next. Pete Buttigieg, welcome. This is so exciting.

[Jessica Tarlov]

You're so happy.

[Scott Galloway]

This is more about us. This means we have finally arrived.

[Jessica Tarlov]

Yeah, this is it. Welcome, Mayor. Peace, our moment.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Gosh. Well, I'm flattered. Thanks for having me on.

[Scott Galloway]

This is super. This is super exciting.

[Jessica Tarlov]

I haven't seen Scott smile, by the way, in, like, months. So thank you for coming.

[Pete Buttigieg]

I feel so special. Thank you.

[Scott Galloway]

Let's get into it. You've said Trump launched a war without planning and called what we're seeing amateur hour at the Pentagon and the White House. We want to play you a clip from Pete Hexett this morning giving us an update on the war. Let's take a look. The world, the Middle east, our ungrateful allies in Europe, even segments of our own press should be saying one thing to President Trump. Thank you.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Thank you for the courage to stop this terror state from holding the world

[Scott Galloway]

hostage with missiles while building or attempting to build a nuclear bomb. Thank you for doing the work of the free world. So, Mayor P, when you hear that, what do you see as the real world risks of this kind of leadership? And how are you thinking about The Pentagon's reported 200 billion supplemental funding requests making the rounds right now?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, first of all, I'm just thinking about how much that costs us, literally. I mean, if you just do the napkin math, $200 billion in a country our size, it's something like 600 bucks for every man, woman, and child in this country, on top of what's already the largest Pentagon budget in history of all, for a war that the American people didn't ask for and don't want. And we hear the secretary carrying on like that. I mean, it sounds more like the Iraqi information minister that many of us remember from the early 2000s. Or a Soviet propaganda minister, not a serious American leader, which is really disturbing because this is a serious American situation. We are now at war. It's not as if we're at war. We are literally at war. American service members have been killed and Americans at home are paying the price. Higher mortgage rates, higher food prices, which are about to get even higher because of what's happening in agriculture, obviously higher gas prices. And now just every day, at least a billion dollars that we all literally paid going into the furnace of this conflict.

[Scott Galloway]

Do you think we're going to have boots on the ground here? And what are your thoughts on that?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, they're certainly making some of those noises. There's fresh reporting, I think just today that they're contemplating sending more troops into the region and, you know, depending which goal they pick for the war. And it seems like it keeps changing. You know, some of those would require troops on the ground to achieve. And you just think about American conflicts, all of them, but especially the ones that that ended in the most in tears. You know, you think about Vietnam, nobody thought that that was going to last a long time. Nobody thought that was really going to lead to major troops on the ground. It started with advisors and then it was troops, and then it was more troops, and then it was years and years and years. You know, when I got to Afghanistan as a Lieutenant, that was 13 years into the war. And I thought I was one of the last troops turning out the lights. And it was almost a decade more before that conflict was over. So they've unleashed forces that I don't think even they know how to contain. And we don't know what the consequences will be to our economy or in terms of how many more troops have to go out there.

[Jessica Tarlov]

You bring up the kind of like, what is going on here aspect. And Donald Trump has said that himself. He said no one could have predicted this. There are a number of people on his team who did predict this and, you know, wrote articles about it. And the Iranians themselves predicted it because they put sent a letter to the UN Saying this is what we're going to do. How do we get out of here successfully? Because it seems to me there's a big contrast between definitive military successes that have occurred and what a long term solution looks like. Unless we want to be a peacekeeping force in the region in perpetuity, which nobody wants to do. So how are you thinking about how those two issues kind of interact?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah, you have to start with mission clarity. Look, it is not our job to make sure that the Iranian people have excellent government. I hope they someday will. Obviously we're rooting for that. But it is not our job to deliver thoroughgoing regime change, nor is there any reason to think that we're capable of that. What we do need to do is to keep the homeland safe. And that means making sure that Iran never gets a nuclear weapon, which, by the way, was achieved by diplomacy before the first Trump administration blew that up, and which the Trump administration claims to have achieved by force almost a year ago now when the president assured us that the nuclear program was obliterated. But anyway, that's one thing that has to be achieved, and the other is to contain any of the kind of malignant activities that the Iranian regime tends to pursue beyond its borders. And remember, this is still the same regime, right? We went from one ayatollah to another ayatollah. We went from Ayatollah Khamenei to Ayatollah Khamenei Jr. We think we don't exactly know what condition he's in. So they have started something. This government, this president, this White House, started something that they do not know how to finish.

[Jessica Tarlov]

What do you think is going on inside the administration? I mean, you've been part of a White House, you know, with a bevy of characters, right, who have different personalities and different goals. And I watched someone like Tulsi Gabbard testifying yesterday with the Senate. She's on the Hill right now, fending off questions about what the intelligence community actually told the president. And she is, you know, bobbing and weaving and trying to get around it. Scott Bessen is saying we might lift sanctions on Iranian oil. Now, he just gave an interview a couple hours ago saying that we've already done that for the Russians. I mean, what do you think is going on inside the White House?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, a lot of what's inside the White House isn't even literally inside the White House. Remember, this war was launched from, not from the Situation Room, but from Mar a Lago, a literal club for millionaires that the president owns as a side hustle. So I think that tells you a lot about whose opinions matter the most. Right. Right now. And it's kind of the Mar a Lago set. Right. We saw a senior economic advisor say, this isn't going to cause any problems. Well, maybe for consumers, but that's the least of our worries. And I think we're seeing that play out in a lot of ways where you've got just a total disconnect between the people who are paying the price, whether you're talking about the people paying the ultimate price, which is the troops, or just people all around the country paying the price in terms of our costs, and the people making the decision. Add to that the fact that this president arrived by promising his base that there would be no new regime change, wars in general, and many times saying that there would be an Iran war in particular. So if you got a lot of people who believed him, who didn't just vote for him, but came into the administration, like, presumably Tulsi Gabbard, I have to think that you just got an extreme level of confusion and very little cohesion in that White House. That's why you're seeing things you don't see often, like J.D. vance kind of shutting up right now, which is not what he usually does.

[Jessica Tarlov]

It's a nice relief, though. I'm not mad at it.

[Pete Buttigieg]

We can be thankful to be hearing a little less from the vice president, I guess. But it's also telling, right, that you're not hearing much from the vice president, whose job is to be the top cheerleader for whatever the president happens to be doing any given day.

[Scott Galloway]

42 of the last 42 years, the state Department, under vastly different administrations, has labeled Iran as the premier sponsor of terrorists. If the Trump administration had managed to build something resembling a coalition of Gulf states and some European nations had consulted Congress, do you see any justification for military action against Iran beyond what happened at Fordo?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Not based on what's happened so far. Not based on what we've seen. Right. And even the highest counterterrorism official in the intelligence community said when he resigned in disgust the other day that there was no imminent threat. I mean, don't get me wrong, and I think this might be part of what your question's getting at. There are certainly a lot of scenarios where military action could be appropriate against this regime. It's just we're not in one of them. Right. The most important grave decision the commander in chief can make is to send troops into conflict. And if there's anything that we've learned throughout history or just throughout our lifetimes, is that you only send troops into conflict when then there is no other good alternative. And if that's the case here, they have failed to even attempt to show it.

[Scott Galloway]

And what do you think some of those good alternatives might have been?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, again, the best alternative was the neutralization of their nuclear program through diplomacy. That was achieved now two or three administrations ago. Right. So you had the Obama administration, with our allies, with our partners, figuring out a way to have an Iran nuclear deal that kept them from off the path of getting a nuclear weapon. And then you had Trump blow that up and I think make it sound like he could get a better deal, fail to get a better deal, and now resort to force. But it's not clear what the force is about. If he really did obliterate the nuclear program when he bombed them last year. So, look, there will always be, at least as long as we have a malignant regime like we have in Iran, there will always be a need for military and kinetic options and all of the things you do to contain a regime that does what they do. I mean, let's be clear again, we should have no illusions about them, right? I mean, it's not just a matter of attacking the homeland with a missile. I mean, they were attacking our troops. All through the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. We knew that the IEDs that could have killed me and my buddies when we were in Afghanistan were in large measure supplied or enhanced by Iran. So we definitely need to be able to contain them. Having troops go in is a different matter. And overthrowing a foreign leader if you don't have a plan on what to do next is a different matter. And this just never met the test for that being the right thing to do.

[Scott Galloway]

So it's intellectually consistent for progressives to say, okay, no forever wars, and we need a smaller military. What I don't understand is on the right where, okay, it's no forever wars, but we're in favor of a $1.1 trillion military budget. As someone who. Who is, you know, Canada's not invading us anytime soon. As someone who served, as someone who potentially might seek higher office, do you believe that we should be spending $1.1 trillion on our military?

[Pete Buttigieg]

I think there are clear savings to be found in a lot of the contracts and other things that are going on in the Pentagon. Again, I saw it for myself as a relatively very junior kind of part of that whole military apparatus when I was in uniform. And I've seen more generally in government how money gets shoveled into a furnace sometimes. Look, we should and must make sure that we have by far the strongest military in the world. And that costs money, and that's okay. But the whole point of having the strongest military in the world is to make sure it's so strong that you almost never have to use it. And what we're seeing now and what the $200 billion they're talking about adding in to foot the bill for this conflict tells us, is that you're kind of getting the worst of both worlds. You're getting all the spending, none of the piece that's supposed to come from having a dominant position.

[Jessica Tarlov]

So for the last 12 minutes, I think we've been going, you have been doing what I think you do best, which is communicating, and you've kind of been a beacon in our party for someone who is able to, to articulate the things that a lot of us are feeling and often doing that in tough environments. I, as a, as a Fox Newser, have always appreciated when you've come on. And I think it's done us a lot of good and also done the right a lot of good to, you know, be met with someone who wants to have a real conversation and can get things out there. Clearly. I'm curious how you are thinking about the party right now and how we are responding to this moment. And you've always been focused on what comes next. Right. Like, Trump will go away. If we're going to win an election, it has to be about more than just, yeah, we're the alternative or we don't like that guy and you don't like that guy, so vote for us. So, you know, how are you assessing this moment in terms of our party?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah, I think our party is still struggling to have this idea of, of what happens when Trump leaves the scene as a beginning point. Instead of the be all, end all goal of what we're doing, we need to do what, by the way, I think an increasing number of Republicans are doing. If you look at the defection of Marjorie Taylor Greene, if you look at the Indiana state House Republicans defying the president on redistricting, I think what a lot of them are thinking to themselves is, you know what, I'm going to be in politics longer than he is. And yet that's actually a real struggle for Democrats, I think, because we are understandably so horrified by all of the abuses that are going on right now, but it's just not enough. Maybe it's enough for 26, but, but it's not actually enough to be a governing vision, especially because so much has changed. And by the way, it hasn't only changed because of everything that the Trump administration burned down. Some of these things are changing anyway. We're going to need probably a completely new social contract in our economy because of what artificial intelligence is likely to do to jobs and communities just in the next few years. Obviously, on the global front, we're going to have to redesign everything from our systems for handling international trade to our security frameworks and alliances. We got to have answers about not just how to end the horrible things we're seeing right now, but what we're supposed to do about it. And the really amazing thing is on so many of the answers, including things we've been saying all along, like making sure that the wealthiest pay their fair share in taxes or making sure that there's a better solution for people to get healthcare or you name it, issue after issue. It's like two thirds of Americans agree with us. And so we have to be asking ourselves some pretty hard questions. If there's issue after issue where 2/3 of Americans are with us and we're not always getting 50% in the election, how are we talking about these things and where are we talking about these things? Whether that's people like me going on Fox and I admire what you do in the lions den there every day, or whether it's going to these spaces where more and more people get their information that aren't on TV at all. Right. And maybe on their face aren't even about politics at all. Sports and culture and comedy venues that are actually how a lot of younger people form their impression about what's happening in the world. If we're not contesting that territory, if we're not reaching out and engaging there, we're going to be left behind because I know for a fact that the other side is doing it every day.

[Jessica Tarlov]

Yeah. Your turn on flagrant was one of my favorite. Flagrant's one of my favorite pods in general. But it was funny to see like that Bernie could hang and you could hang and then you think about kind of some of the other folks with leading roles in the party and how they might survive Two and a half hours with Andrew Schultz and it was not a pretty sight. Let's take a quick break. Stay with us.

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Scott Galloway]

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[Pete Buttigieg]

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[Jessica Tarlov]

welcome back. I want to talk about the media environment, but before that, because you brought up AI and you talk about, you know, rebuilding global alliances and things like that. What are a few policies that you think should be central to the Democratic platform? Like where we could say in the first hundred days, this is what you're going to get from us if you give us back the keys.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, we start with the basics. We're going to make sure that you are able to afford living and there's some specific policies that help with that. Making sure that you do get that support you need on your premiums for the aca, for example, which is much more affordable than this. More on Iran in budget terms, making sure you get things, like things I believe in that would help people raise families from access to pre K to things like parental leave. We're going to make sure that the wealthy are paying their fair share, which most Americans think we need to do. And we're going to make sure that one job is enough, which means making sure Your wages are good enough and having policies that support you getting benefits and benefits you can take with you if you're more of the Gen Z millennial style worker who might change employers or even careers a dozen times. Meanwhile, in the background, we got to work on the shape of our democracy. That stuff's not as sexy, but we definitely need to take action to deal with money. And politics could take a long time to get something like a constitutional change done. That means we should be working on it from day one. On artificial intelligence, one of two things is going to happen. Either it's going to lead to a shorter workweek and more money in your pocket, which is the outcome I would like to see, or it's going to lead to even more extreme concentrations of wealth and power than we already have, which is what will happen if we don't intervene with good smart policies to do something about that. I think that probably involves making sure that Americans get a share of the enormous wealth that is being created in and for these firms. And especially because they're making that wealth from data that we all put out into the world using infrastructure like the Internet that taxpayers invented in the first or, you know, taxpayer funded research invented in the first place. So I think these are very commonsensical policies, but we've really struggled to get them through and I think we struggled to convey our focus on those things, which is why I think a lot of working and middle class voters weren't sure what Democrats had to say to them. We got to put that right now an obligation and also an opportunity to do that.

[Scott Galloway]

So the wealthy paying their fair share and there's just no getting around it. The wealthy have done much better than any other cohort. But let's get specific. So if you're a married couple and one person is a baller at a law firm making a couple million bucks a year or the other is a chiropractor with 3 Clinic. I mean, played by the rules, super hardworking, super successful, super fortunate, making two, three million dollars a year. They likely have to be in a blue city in a blue state to have access to that type of information economy. And Pete, they're likely paying 48 to 52% incremental tax rates. At the same time, billionaires are paying a lot less than that. Owners versus earners. Can you be more specific about specific policies that get to the notion of the wealthy paying their fair share?

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah, I mean, this is a great point, right? I mean, not only is it a real problem that billionaires are paying less percentage Wise than, than, you know, firefighters or teachers. But it's also interesting that billionaires are paying much less than millionaires. So if we at least had the, the wealthiest billionaires and multi billionaires paying as much as somebody who, who, who's making one or two million dollars, that would actually be a lot more money coming into the treasury that would make it possible to deliver on things like getting everybody health care and getting everybody childcare. That means closing loopholes. That means going further down the route of making sure that there's not some advantage to offshoring your wealth. A lot of it is on the corporate side, right? People who make the very most wealth in this country aren't booking it as a salary. It's got a lot to do with ownership of corporate equity. And a lot of these corporations are literally paying zero because of all the loopholes and the write offs that they have. And if we true that up, not to mention just making sure we do better on things like tax evasion, the IRS has lost capability to make sure people just pay what they're actually supposed to be paying on paper. We're talking about enormous, enormous resources that become available for the things that people expect their government to be on top of, like infrastructure and national defense and make sure that our schools and our health are in good shape. So we're, we can do this. We have to choose to do it. I'm not saying that, you know, a high salary earner has to go back to the JFK years when your income taxed federally was like 80 or 90% on the top marginal rate. It doesn't have to be that, but we do need to true things up for multibillionaires, for giant corporations, and, you know, for what Andrew Schultz memorably called on that podcast you mentioned, the middle rich. You know, people aren't billionaires, but are in good shape, so they might be paying a little more too. But to your point, I mean, the folks who are getting away with the most are the folks who are actually much richer than, quote, unquote, ordinary millionaires.

[Scott Galloway]

What does that look like at a policy level? Is it an alternative minimum tax? Is it a wealth tax? There's been new tax proposals from Ro Khanna, Cory Booker, Senator Warren, and they're vastly different approaches. What would the Buttigieg's approach to fairness at the high end? What does that actual policy, tax policy look like?

[Jessica Tarlov]

Scott's making you a presidential candidate, by the way.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah, I was gonna say, like, is that happening?

[Scott Galloway]

I'm in.

[Pete Buttigieg]

I'm not here to Present a fully articulated tax policy. Although I will say, you know, when I did run for president a few years ago, I was proud of making sure, I think I was the only one to do this. That every penny that we proposed in spending we specified how we were gonna pay for it in taxes. Cause I think that's important if you're doing something like run. Obviously I'm not running for anything at the moment right now. But I think that the qualities of a fair tax code are that those who do the best contribute the most. Not punitive, not unreasonable, but fair. I think that that can be based on income, that can be based on corporate earnings. There are a lot of different ways to make it harder to shelter or shield money with things like mark to market that have been talked about not to get too wonky. And look, a wealth tax is like a property tax. It is not to me nothing wrong in kind with the idea of a property tax or a tax on wealth. But it needs to be well calibrated, it needs to be fair, it needs to be smart. And I think some of the proposals out there are better at that than others.

[Scott Galloway]

You mentioned health care. 13,000 per capita spending versus 6506 of the other G7. Do you think it's time for single payer or socialized medicine? Because even subsidizing ACA payments is not going to be health care reform. It's a short term fix that we need. But healthcare in the United States is broke. The best way to describe it would be expensive but bad, right? Higher infant mortality, more anxious, more obese. But we pay twice what everyone else pays. It feels like we need big dramatic reform. Can you and again be as specific as possible around. Well, let me just ask straight up, do you believe in Singer payer or socialized medicine?

[Pete Buttigieg]

So I believe in what I proposed a few years ago. I think it's aged really well. We called it Medicare for all who want it. You set up a. A public payer. If I'm right that it's going to be better than the others, then it will evolve into the single payer because everybody will want it. But we don't command everybody to use it if there's something they'd rather have, if they get a better deal through their union or some other available offering. So I'm for setting up a public payer. I'm skeptical of the idea that you should just make everybody do it on day one. Now I also think that we can do more to address the cost side. So even though I'm Concerned and skeptical about the trajectory that we're on when it comes to artificial intelligence. I also think there's a huge opportunity here. If so much of the healthcare dollar is going not into patient care, not into directly making somebody better off, but into administrative, that's the first thing we should be looking to automate. Automate the bureaucracy. And I think there's a lot of opportunity there. If we use these tools in the right way and if we make sure, I mean, you have to have somebody looking over the shoulder, I think, of. Of the health care sector, that they're not just extracting it in massive profits. I want, you know, obviously a company that does a good job and plays by the rules ought to be profitable. But you look at this vertical integration going on, where you got the insurer and the provider and the pharmacy sometimes, or the pbm, they're all part of the same corporate agglomeration. That's not adding value. At least. It's not adding value for us, for the patient or the customer. It's adding value for the profits of the corporation.

[Jessica Tarlov]

I'm sure that a lot of the ideas that you were just talking about come not only from your 2020 campaign, but also what you're hearing from real live people on the ground. And you have been all over the place. You live in Michigan, which is a huge battleground for us. Wisconsin, Nevada, you've gone to Pennsylvania, Alabama. Can you talk about what you're hearing from the real live folks who don't live in these bubbles with us when you are in these places, or even just at home where there's a big marquee Senate race that's gonna be coming up.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Yeah, you definitely feel that people are getting squeezed. I was out knocking on doors with a candidate yesterday up for a special election in a state Senate district in Michigan, which includes Saginaw and Bay City. In Midland, we're knocking on doors. In Midland, we meet one family that their story is one I've heard a lot in the Midwest, which is people who were living in California or on one of the coasts and decide to relocate to the Midwest because it's more affordable. They said they got here and now they're shocked by how much they're paying. Even living here in the Midwest, they were talking about their electric bill and they're feeling that it's out of control. And again, I think this connects directly to policy because you got the White House killing energy projects right and left. That could be adding supply, adding capacity, by the way, adding clean capacity in this country. And help take a bite out of people's power bills. So, you know, things that. That used to be something that in this part of the country where I live, were something you thought about happening on the coasts are now happening everywhere. Housing costs, health care costs, utility costs, and more and more people feel like nobody hears them when they're saying how squeezed they are. And that just continues to be such a central issue. It's one thing if you have people who are trying to lower those costs, but they just can't quite get it done. It's another when you have a government make specific choices that directly increase the costs. That's true about the war, that's true about killing the clean energy projects. Obviously, by definition, it's true about the tariffs. I think a typical family paid about a thousand bucks to the government in the form of those tariffs that are not popular and it turns out, largely not legal. So this stuff is very real. It's in your face, it's kitchen table. And I'm hearing about it everywhere I go. The other thing I would say that I found on the road that is surprising, or at least striking, is how many people who considered themselves Republicans, even through the first few years or the last few years of the ups and downs with Trump, now want a change. I mean, amoy to Alabama, and then on my way back, I mean, both flights, somebody came up to me and talked about being a lifelong Republican. One of them didn't even say, I used to be a Republican, said I'm a Republican, and then said that he hoped the Democrats win in November this year. So I think there's a chance to have a bigger coalition right now than we're used to, where it's not just people who always vote Democrats, not just people in the blue areas. I mean, we were in northwest Georgia. This is Marjorie Taylor Greene's old district. We had hundreds of people come when I was campaigning with Sean Harris, a Democratic candidate in this very conservative area. It was actually, we were told, not that I'm super into crowd sizes, but we were told it was more than President Trump was able to get when he was campaigning the community a few weeks earlier. So just saying something, something's going on out there in terms of people's readiness to step up. And a lot's going out there in terms of people's stability to afford getting through their day.

[Jessica Tarlov]

Do they not think that we're woke and weak anymore?

[Pete Buttigieg]

I think that they are more interested in who's gonna make their life better. And I think a lot of folks took a chance on this president. Maybe they didn't even like them, but they said, I'm going to vote for anybody who's going to shake things up, not expecting things to be shaken up at their expense. So what I say to Democrats is the current situation, the fact that the American people have turned against the president even on issues like immigration and the economy that he used to do well on, that's not the answer for us. That's not a solution for us. It's an opening for us. And our job is to explain how your life gets better and more affordable when we have fairer taxes, when we have more support for healthcare, all of those things that we need.

[Scott Galloway]

We talk a lot about the on the show, about the struggles of not only a younger generation that is 24% less wealthy than they were 40 years ago versus my generation, which is 72% wealthier. And per your comments about a more just tax system. But we talk a lot specifically about the cohort that I would argue has fallen further, faster than any other cohort, and that is young men. And when talking to young men, oftentimes the option of military service comes up. You know, good young men trying to find their way, quite frankly are just not the kind of people are going to graduate from an elite school. They're just, they don't have those skills, they don't have those resources. Right now. You were an officer. But talk a little bit about enlisted service as it relates to the opportunity for young men and women and your observations around who military service is the right fit for and also just as importantly, who it's not the right fit for.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Look, military service isn't for everybody and you need to go in with your eyes wide open about what it means because you don't know what conflicts the country will be in while you're in service. You don't know who the commander in chief will be throughout the whole time that you're in uniform. And so you really are writing a blank check to the United States of America. What you get in return for that is the knowledge that you have contributed to this country's defense and survival and so much more. Whether we're talking about very concrete things like skills that a lot of people gain in the military, technical skills, but also just life skills, how to deal with other people, how to handle yourself around people who are different from you. And you know that that could be true for a 19 year old enlisted kid. That was true for me. You know, as an officer with a really fortunate education, I learned so much including how to trust my life to somebody I just met who definitely had very different background and politics and values than I did, because that was our job. I think we would be better off if more Americans had the experience of working together on something hard. And you get that in the military. But the military is not the only place you can get that. That's why I'm a big believer in extending more opportunities for service in more ways. Military is great for many people. If that's not for you, we should have more opportunities for volunteer service, things like AmeriCorps that unfortunately are being dismantled or defunded in this administration. But we should have more and not less on that, especially because it's not just a great development in the life of a young person, definitely in the life of a young man who is trying to develop a sense of self and a sense of purpose, but also because it helps build a sense of broader trust and cohesion in this country, and it forces us to deal with each other offline. But the people that you engage with in a volunteer unit, definitely in a military unit, you're not doing it from behind a keyboard. It's not, you know, an avatar of a cartoon character or an emoji behind some obscure user handle on Twitter or Discord or whatever, is a human being that you've got to work with. And, you know, one of the best descriptions I've ever heard about politics. Jedediah Purdy, one of my the thinkers I really admire, said that politics is the process of finding terms of alliance for people who need each other and are in each other's way. And I think that's true just societally for all of us. We all need each other. As Americans, we're in each other's way, but also in a more immediate sense, putting yourself in a situation where you learn to work with people, that you depend on each other and sometimes you can get in each other's way. This is part of how we as human beings can be better formed, can develop better, and then come back and be better citizens.

[Scott Galloway]

Pete Buttigieg is a former U.S. secretary of Transportation 2020 presidential candidate and a former mayor of South Bend, Indiana, who helped put a new gener of Democratic leadership on the map. Also, Mayor PETE I just think you're a wonderful role model for young men. You're fearless. You're always this sense of service in everything you say. Wonderful, committed partner, engaged father. I just think you're sending a wonderful signal to young people and specifically young men. Very much appreciate your role and your service and the message you're sending to the next generation.

[Pete Buttigieg]

Well, I'll try to live up to that. Thanks for having me.

[Scott Galloway]

Jas, what'd you think?

[Jessica Tarlov]

I've been waiting a long time to talk to Mayor Pete and it definitely lived up to it. I have always admired how seamlessly he can go between different subject areas with a lot of depth to his answers. And we took him on a roller coaster all over the world and then, you know, like, what do we do about the Democratic brand? And then young men in service. He's just a standout communicator. I'm excited to see him in the 2028, you know, primary battle, which will have a lot of folks in it, but I think he's really good. What do you think?

[Scott Galloway]

I just think the country's in desperate need of making intelligence and decency cool again. And I think he does that. It's very reasoned, very decent. Doesn't make personal attacks. Good family man. You know, I, I'm very much, I think he's going to run and I very much hope he's going to run because whether he wins or not, and I think Kelsey has him down at like 4% right now. I bet that goes up. He's just going to be a very positive voice in the race. You know, he's just, he's fact based, he's logical, he's rational, he's a critical thinker. I just think he's a great, I think he's not only a great voice for the Democratic Party, I think he's a great voice for a new generation of Democrats. So I just think he's, he's just a positive, he feels like he's just generally speaking, a positive force in the world.

[Jessica Tarlov]

Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent. And he's so chill. Also, like for somebody that, yeah, not easily rattled. Certainly not easily rattled, but for somebody, you know, who's very smart, what does he speak, like six languages or something like that? He has a very down to earth presentation that you. Why, there are folks who usually vote the other way that like him or are coming up to him, you know, to talk about their experiences. And yeah, I think he makes the Democratic Party better and I love people like that. And he's always honest about in reflecting on where we've gone wrong and we'll do that publicly. And I think that's a very healthy and good thing, even as someone who served in the administration. All right, before we go, a reminder that not only is raging moderates five days a week, which we hope you've been enjoying, but we're also now on substance. Subscribers get ad free episodes, live streams like the one we did with James Talarico last weekend, and a place to engage with me and Scott and the other listeners and the whole Prof. G Fam. So find us at raging moderates. Prof. Gmedia.com that's all for this episode. Thank you so much for joining us today.

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