What Zohran’s Victory Signals About the Left (ft. Rep. Greg Casar)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Raging Moderates with Scott Galloway and Jessica Tarlov

Episode: What Zohran’s Victory Signals About the Left (ft. Rep. Greg Casar)
Release Date: June 27, 2025
Host: Jessica Tarlov
Guest: Representative Greg Casar, Chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus

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Introduction

In this episode of Raging Moderates, host Jessica Tarlov sits down with Representative Greg Casar, the chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus from Texas's 35th district. The discussion centers around Zohran's recent political victory, its implications for the Democratic Party, and the broader strategy of the progressive movement within American politics.

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Zohran’s Victory: A Progressive Milestone

Initial Reactions and Significance
Greg Casar expresses his enthusiasm about Zohran Mamdani’s unexpected win in the New York City Democratic primary. He notes that two to three months prior, such a result would have been surprising, highlighting a shift within the party dynamics.

"Mr. Mamdani's win is a big progressive win. But I think it also can't be underestimated how much his win can be attributed to connecting with people with being authentic, with going all over New York City."
[02:10]

Authenticity and Connection with Voters
Casar emphasizes the importance of authenticity and grassroots engagement, drawing parallels to Beto O'Rourke's 2018 Senate race. He credits both the personal outreach and financial support for Zohran’s success.

"A lot of people... watching Zoron's race felt like we were watching a Beto o' Rourke moment from afar."
[02:47]

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Bridging the Progressive and Moderate Divide

Economic Focus as Unifying Theme
The conversation shifts to the significance of economic issues, particularly affordability, as a central theme that transcends traditional political and identity lines. Casar underscores that addressing economic needs is crucial for uniting diverse voter bases.

"Affordability has felt like something we say versus something that we do something about."
[04:46]

Closing the Trust Gap
Casar highlights a significant disconnect between elected officials and constituents, primarily around issues like housing costs. He stresses the necessity of rebuilding trust by addressing the real concerns of everyday people rather than getting bogged down in partisan debates.

"We have a trust gap that we've got to close. We've got to earn back people's trust and then got to talk about the issues that actually really make a difference for them."
[05:00]

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Strategies for the Progressive Caucus

Universal Economic Policies
Casar advocates for policies that benefit all working individuals, regardless of their background. He argues that economic reforms like raising wages, expanding Social Security, and cutting childcare costs resonate universally and help build a cohesive political platform.

"Economic good of everybody has to be our number one issue."
[10:19]

Learning from Labor Movements
Drawing from his experience as a labor organizer, Casar suggests that the progressive movement should adopt strategies from labor unions to unify diverse groups around common economic goals.

"We can't let corporate influence and the cycle of money and donations water down our message."
[33:16]

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Addressing Identity Politics

Intersectional Economic Populism
The discussion touches on the balance between identity politics and economic issues. Casar points out that economic policies inherently benefit marginalized communities while also serving the broader population, thus avoiding the pitfalls of exclusive identity-based appeals.

"Mark Zuckerberg should have to pay the same tax rate into Social Security as a schoolteacher does."
[10:19]

Historical Context of the Civil Rights Movement
Casar references historical figures like Philip Randolph to illustrate how early civil rights leaders integrated economic reforms with social justice, suggesting that modern progressives should do the same.

"We can't forget that the March on Washington was for freedom and jobs."
[12:06]

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The Impact of Progressive Campaigns

Fighting Oligarchy Tour with Bernie Sanders
Casar discusses his experiences on the Fighting Oligarchy Tour alongside Bernie Sanders, emphasizing the importance of promoting big, bold economic ideas that challenge the influence of billionaires in politics.

"It's a moment about putting up a fight, actually standing on principle and pushing for economic policies that are universal."
[14:18]

Building a Broad Coalition
He stresses the need for progressives to work collaboratively with moderates, frontline Democrats, and disaffected voters to create a unified front against right-wing politics.

"The baseline economics is the glue that brings together our big tent."
[25:05]

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Challenges and Future Outlook

Reconciliation Bill and Legislative Hurdles
Casar provides insights into the current political climate surrounding the reconciliation bill, expressing skepticism about Republican lawmakers' alignment with their constituents and the potential for internal conflicts within the Senate.

"Republican members of Congress aren't voting with their constituents."
[25:40]

Immigration Policy as an Economic Issue
He argues for framing immigration not just as a rights issue but as a fundamental economic and legal concern, highlighting incidents like the deportation of a U.S. citizen girl to demonstrate the broader implications of current policies.

"We need to be for legal and humane and thoughtful and safe and orderly immigration and reform."
[28:00]

Predicting Political Moves
Casar expresses uncertainty about predicting legislative outcomes in the current volatile political environment, particularly with former President Trump's influence and unpredictable actions.

"I'm very bad at predicting what folks will do when they're acting, frankly, so irrationally."
[27:12]

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Final Thoughts: Rage and Restraint

What Makes Him Rage
Casar voices frustration over attempts to dilute progressive messages through corporate influence and policies that favor big businesses, arguing that such actions undermine the movement's integrity and effectiveness.

"A hijacking of what people are talking about here and trying to sort of drag the Democratic Party back into the... 1988, 1992 version."
[32:00]

What to Calm Down About
He suggests that the public needs to relax regarding the performative aspects of political discourse, emphasizing authenticity and relatable communication over scripted or insincere interactions.

"Folks just need to chill out. That's how normal people talk, you know?"
[33:31]

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Conclusion

Representative Greg Casar provides a comprehensive overview of the current state and future direction of the progressive movement within the Democratic Party. By focusing on universal economic issues, fostering authenticity, and bridging the gap between progressives and moderates, Casar emphasizes a strategic approach to reclaiming the party's status as the champion of the working class. The episode underscores the importance of trust, unity, and actionable policies in navigating the complex landscape of modern American politics.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "Mr. Mamdani's win is a big progressive win." – Greg Casar [02:10]
• "Affordability has felt like something we say versus something that we do something about." – Greg Casar [04:46]
• "Economic good of everybody has to be our number one issue." – Greg Casar [10:19]
• "We can't forget that the March on Washington was for freedom and jobs." – Greg Casar [12:06]
• "Mark Zuckerberg should have to pay the same tax rate into Social Security as a schoolteacher does." – Greg Casar [10:19]
• "The baseline economics is the glue that brings together our big tent." – Greg Casar [25:05]
• "We need to be for legal and humane and thoughtful and safe and orderly immigration and reform." – Greg Casar [28:00]
• "Folks just need to chill out. That's how normal people talk, you know?" – Greg Casar [33:31]

---

This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened to the full podcast.

Transcript

[Scott Galloway]

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[Julia Longoria]

School's out. The weather's getting warmer. And you know what that means. It's sleepaway camp season. It's never been the case that the majority of American children went to summer camps, but summer camps came to assume a really important place in American popular culture. If most of us didn't go to camp, why are we so obsessed with it? That's this week on Explain it to Me. New episodes every Sunday, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Welcome to Raging Moderates. I'm Jessica Tarlev. Today I'm speaking with Representative Greg Kassar. He's in his second term representing Texas's 35th district, and he's also the chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus. He's currently campaigning across the country alongside Bernie Sanders in the Fighting Oligarchy Tour, and he's been outspoken about his belief that the Democratic Party should work to be known as the party of the everyday person. Representative Kassar, welcome to the show.

[Greg Kassar]

Thanks so much for having me on.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I'm really excited. I've been, I've been waiting a bit to have you so pent up excitement. And it feels fitting that we have such a big news story to talk about this morning that relates directly to the kind of work and campaigning that you're doing with the New York City Democratic primary last night. We're recording this Wednesday morning. Zoran Mandani, I wouldn't say shocking everybody because the mood was that it was shifting in his direction against Andrew Cuomo.

[Greg Kassar]

It would have been a shock two or three months ago.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Definitely a shock two or three months ago. And there's only one pollster that got it right, actually that had Moundani pulling this off. But can you talk about your initial reactions to the result and what you think it means about the party on a larger basis?

[Greg Kassar]

Well, look, I'm happy to be on this podcast. I'm very clearly progressive. I'm Progressive Caucus chair. And of course, you know, Mr. Mamdani's win is a big progressive win. But I think it also can't be underestimated how much his win can be attributed to connecting with people with being authentic, with going all over New York City. A lot of people outside of Texas watched the Beto O' Rourke 2018 race from afar when Beto ran for Senate against Ted Cruz.

[Jessica Tarlev]

But we also gave a lot of money.

[Greg Kassar]

Yeah, Yeah. Y' all also gave a lot of.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Money, which we did not get back.

[Greg Kassar]

Yeah, well, yeah. Hey, you know, a lot of times money pours out of Texas. This was one opportunity where it came in. But a lot of us in Texas watching Zoron's race felt like we were watching a Beto o' Rourke moment from afar and that him walking all the way across Manhattan felt like watching Beto Drive over 200 Texas counties. Because I think people are searching for that kind of a connection. And then the last thing that I'll mention about Zoron is while his views are certainly part of the left, part of the Democratic Party, he emphasized those economic issues affording New York more than anything else. That's what the banner said behind him when he won was being able to afford New York City. And I think that at the end of the day, a lot of Democratic primary voters are looking for something new. They're looking for something authentic, and they want to hear how the Democratic Party is going to address their economic needs. And I think that's a path forward for progressives.

[Jessica Tarlev]

He was relentlessly on message, and it was about affordability. Everything from your groceries to your childcare, which is a massive issue. He said that Bill de Blasio was his favorite New York mayor. And Bill de Blasio got us universal pre K, which I was not a fan of de Blasio's mayoralty, but I certainly can appreciate what a big difference that made in the lives of parents. And I have two young kids, so I totally get it. It connects really nicely with what you've been talking about, which is from your experience as a labor organizer, that there are certain unifying themes where it doesn't really matter what your politics are, what class you are, maybe you're not the beggar rich, but if you're a working person, that you're concerned about this affordability issue, and it seems like the establishment or what. I'm going to use quotes here because I'm probably more part of the establishment than anything has lost the plot.

[Greg Kassar]

We need establishment critics of the establishment.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Totally. We have a Big Ten party. That's always what I want to emphasize. But affordability has felt like something we say versus something that we do something about.

[Greg Kassar]

Well, the big gap between our constituents and those of us in elected office or pollsters or consultants, I think can best be know visualized for me by talking to constituent after constituent after constituent. And they talk all day about housing and housing costs. And this is true across elected officials. Ain't just me in San Antonio and Austin, Texas. All our constituents, whether you're in a Democratic district or Republican district, talk to us about housing costs. And then we come here to Washington, D.C. and you never hear the word housing. There's just such a divide between what everyday people want and what it is that we're debating on Capitol Hill or between the two political parties. And our goal has to be to close that gap and, and then to make sure that people believe us. Right. I think that we also have such a gap in trust so that even if we are telling folks that we're going to address their housing costs or their cost of living, most people feel like both political parties are corrupt and that politicians make a bunch of promises and then don't deliver for them, end up delivering for their friends on the inside instead. So we have a trust gap that we've got to close. We've got to earn back people's trust and then got to talk about the issues that actually really make a difference for them. And I think that's something that Zoran certainly did because I don't think this is the progressive campaign you would have seen during Trump 1.0. During Trump 1.0, I sounded less like a labor organizer and was more activist, which is fine. But I think, you know, if we want to really defeat the cynicism that's at the heart of Trumpism, I think we have to deal with the bigger issues that address all people, not just the most marginalized people.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I totally agree. And you know, we'll see what happens in November because Andrew Cuomo may run on the Fight and Deliver line. Eric Adams is going to be on the independent line in New York here. But to kind of reverse how we've been thinking about this for a long time. What do you think the Progressive Representatives Progressive Caucus can do to ensure that people who are more moderate still feel like they're part of the tent? Because I, I feel like it's almost flipped that we used to think about how do we bring progressives in and now if you are going to pull off a Mom Donnie win, for instance, how do you make sure that people who are more centrists, I don't want to get into a big anti Semitism conversation, but people, for instance, who don't think that, you know, it's A good thing that he supports the BDS movement. Like, how do you fold everyone together?

[Greg Kassar]

Yeah, I was just with Senator Sanders in Republican controlled parts of Texas. Thousands of people in Amarillo, Texas, that goes like 70% for Republicans. And you have plenty of more moderate Democrats there and frankly plenty of conservative Democrats in the Texas Panhandle. And what I said in front of these crowds of thousands and thousands of people is that your friends and family that voted for Donald Trump were lied to. Trump said he was going to be a president of peace and not get us into more endless wars in the Middle east, while Trump seems now intent on starting more endless conflicts. Trump said that he was going to lower the cost of living. And his big bill is not only going to kick millions of people off of their health care, it's going to jack up health care costs for the average family of four by $2,000. So he's betraying people. He went and lied to people. And I said, if you voted for Donald Trump and you're at this rally, you're welcome here. And we have to tell folks that everybody's welcome to be a part of this party and that there's so much that unites us, even if we have disagreements on a variety of issues. I'm kind of going back to my roots as a labor organizer in this moment, where my job was to organize 200 guys on a construction site. And 200 guys have at least 200 different opinions on a construction site. But we were able to unite everybody around the common idea that Everybody that works 7 12s in the sun deserves a raise and that the guy making millions of dollars at the very top of the real estate scheme can definitely afford it. And that's how we brought people together. Immigrant workers, native born workers, undocumented workers, black, brown, white workers. We say in Texas, our construction sites include people that cross the border and people where the border cross them. Their families have been here forever. And we were able to get people together around the common theme of economic issues. And in fact were able to move some people on issues like immigration not by saying, hey, you have to be charitable and support the rights of somebody else, but instead say, hey, if everybody on this construction site has equal rights, if, if everybody can organize into a union and demand a raise or without being scared that ICE is gonna get called on them, we're all gonna be better off. And I think that's part of what the progressive movement has to learn from the labor movement to bring people in is to say, look, you shouldn't be on Board with all of our ideas just because we're right or high and mighty. But actually, universal rights are universally good, and everybody's welcome in a movement to try to win those baseline social rights. But first and foremost, the economic good of everybody has to be our number one issue.

[Jessica Tarlev]

How does the conversation around identity politics fit into that kind of framework?

[Greg Kassar]

Well, for me, we have to put everybody, black, white, or brown, getting a raise first and foremost. Right. When I talk about Social Security expansion, that is a unifying issue where we say, look, Mark Zuckerberg should have to pay the same tax rate into Social Security as a schoolteacher does. And if he does, we can save Social Security for generations to come, expand it, pull every senior out of poverty. And certainly that resonates in black and brown neighborhoods and in white neighborhoods. But we have a lot of black and brown seniors that are barely getting by on their Social Security checks because they were working for $2 an hour at Walmart when that was what the minimum wage was. And their Social Security check is based on that. And so it's good for everybody, and we make it so. And if somebody says, hey, we should emphasize it more for one group or the other, I just feel like we're at a time where that kind of universal economic policy resonates in my majority Latino district just as much as it does in some of the majority white districts that are swing districts in this country.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, it does feel like Bernie Sanders was ahead of his time in the 2016 primary because he was taking a more intersectional approach to talking about these issues. And he said the economic populism would lift all boats and obviously didn't end up winning the primary. But it now has become kind of our common way of thinking about these issues that we want to steer away from identity politics. We want people to know that we care about them. But we don't wanna go out and say, like, this is my black pitch. This is my brown pitch, this is my lady pitch, this is my dude pitch.

[Greg Kassar]

And I think some of this actually also comes from a misreading or a misteaching of the civil rights movement.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Greg Kassar]

We can't forget that the March on Washington was for freedom and jobs. And we don't talk enough about a Philip Randolph, who was the black union leader that kind of mentored and brought MLK forward on this. He always said the best way to stop discrimination is certainly we should ban it, but we also need to guarantee full employment for people, because if you make it so that there's lots of jobs that are required to pay well, then, you know, Americans of color are also going to be much better off in that situation. And so I think that we can't forget that a lot of those early civil rights leaders also weren't just identity focused. They were really driving for economic change. And MLK was killed when he was going and standing up for sanitation workers on a union drive. And I just think that that part of our history has partly been forgotten, but also, in my view, there are people with a lot of money and a lot of lobbying power that want to de. Emphasize the economic goals of the civil rights movement.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I like that and haven't heard it before.

[Greg Kassar]

I haven't said it before.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Oh, my God. This is the first time broke some news.

[Greg Kassar]

Yeah. Well, I don't know. I was just thinking, you know, a Philip Randolph is just someone who we've tried to celebrate on our Juneteenth parades and kind of re elevate his legacy. And I was thinking about it this Juneteenth and just nobody had asked me that question since then.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Well, it's a smart answer. If you get it again, I would integrate it into your stump speech of sorts. This is not the deepest question, but what's it like being out there with Bernie Sanders?

[Greg Kassar]

Well, the first thing people need to know is that Bernie Sanders has done, I think, 21 or 22 stops on this fighting oligarchy tour. You know, I go and do three stops and I have to take, like, half a day off. Yeah. The guy then goes and does a few more stops. It's just incredible that he has been doing this for this long, this. Well, tirelessly. I imagine that on this podcast, you might ask me about the Gerontocracy. I have a gigantic exemption for people with Bernie Sanders level energy.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Oh, that's how it works.

[Greg Kassar]

That's how it works.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Okay.

[Greg Kassar]

I mean, it is incredible to see what he does. It's also amazing on this tour to hear from so many people who said, look, I wasn't with Bernie in 2016, but now I'm here because maybe he was right this entire time. You know, we were hearing him talk about how the billionaires were running the government behind the curtain, but now they've stepped out in front of the curtain and are publicly bragging on social media about running the government. You know, they are running the cabinet meetings. And I think that it's a moment where a lot of folks are seeing the value in those big, bold ideas, because it's not just about left. Right. I think this is a moment about putting up a fight, actually standing on principle and pushing for economic policies that are universal, that everybody can understand, that can get us back into the mode of our society and our democracy can do big things together rather than this sort of technocratic version of the Democratic Party.

[Jessica Tarlev]

We're going to take a really quick break. Stay with us.

[Scott Galloway]

Hi, this is Scott Galloway. If you're listening to this, you likely already know who I am. Kind of a big deal. Everyone's laughing. This message is for you, our loyal listeners. Prop G Markets is now drum roll daily. That's right, Monday through Friday. Prop G Markets breaks down market moving news, helping you build financial literacy and security. Don't miss it. Subscribe to Prof. G Markets wherever you get your podcasts. What do President Biden's two senior most national security advisors think of the US Strikes on Iran?

[Greg Kassar]

The longer tale of the threat from.

[Scott Galloway]

Iran remains and will have to be taken seriously. I'm Preet Bharara, and this week Jake Sullivan and John Finer join me on my podcast, Stay Tuned with Preet to discuss the US Military action in Iran and what comes next for the Middle East. The episode is out now. Search and Follow Stay Tuned with Preet wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I'm Julia Longoria and this week on.

[Julia Longoria]

Unexplainable things get a little personal with morning sickness. What I saw in television shows and movies, people saying, ha, ha ha, she's pregnant.

[Greg Kassar]

She's been barfing for an hour.

[Julia Longoria]

When I woke up, I ran to the bathroom and, and I sort of laughed after thinking this is morning sickness. Aha. But within a week, realized that it was not very funny and it got bad really fast. I just was like, okay, I have to work on this because there's nothing out there and I need the answers.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Follow Unexplainable for new episodes every Monday and Wednesday. Foreign welcome back. It seems like this need for moments of moral clarity has even permeated some on the right, like Josh Hawley, who I am no fan of, is the one saying there are $800 billion of Medicaid cuts in this bill. He has a proposal to raise the minimum wage with Peter Welch. You know, things that I certainly never expected to see, you know, from fist pumped Josh Hawley running away during January 6th. So things are definitely changing, though I imagine they're just going to pass the bill anyway. And I don't have tremendous faith. But there's a recognition that this is where the American public is, no matter what your politics are, and that you kind of have to get with it.

[Greg Kassar]

But what Josh Hawley is doing worries me. And it worries me because if, if.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Republicans get it, then we're really screwed.

[Greg Kassar]

Well, yeah, look, if Trump was trying to capture the anti establishment vote from the Democrats and in some ways has right taken the working class vote, he could lose that. But he's trying to hold on to that. You know, he ran as this anti war candidate as well, taking key parts of the Democratic base. And if Democrats don't get with it, you know, after Trump is done, there's gonna be another presidential race. And I think that the J.D. vances and Josh Hawley's of the world, if they recognize that raising the minimum wage from 7:25 to $17 an hour is incredibly popular, you know, that they don't need to go be 1988 Bush Republicans cutting Medicaid to give their billionaire donors friends. That's a real risk because that kind of right wing politics could have real strength here. So Democrats have a short window of opportunity to reclaim our mantle as the party of the working class and not let the Josh Hawley's of the world take it away from us. Look, I feel like with all this backlash being on Bernie Sanders tour, there's a very good chance that Democrats win the midterms. But if we get complacent after that, if we pat ourselves on the back and go see we don't have to do anything different, we'll win, then I do think we run the real risk of a Josh Hawley or J.D. vance or whoever else eating our lunch for the next eight years after that. And we just can't have that.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I'm concerned about a band aid midterm win as well because that's really what 2022 turned out to be. And I was psyched about the midterms then and it felt like maybe we had a chance and perhaps it was preordained that Trump was to come back. I still kind of think it was a winnable race, but that's neither here nor there because we lost. How do you think? I mean, you say we need to become the party of the working class again and we're also on a clock to be able to do that. So what are the ways that you are messaging, showing up, et cetera, communicating that you think are really effective in dispelling all of this messaging that's coming from the right about this, but also how disappointed the Democratic base is in our leadership.

[Greg Kassar]

We're at a point where the Democratic Party is polling the worst. It's been polling as a party since 1990, at the same time that Donald Trump's popularity is collapsing. And so to me, what that shows is there's a huge opportunity for us to beat Trump and the Republicans. We just have to get our House strongly in order. And that's easier said than done, right? We don't have a Speaker of the House or a Democratic Majority Leader or a presidential nominee. So we have to do it as a collective. We have to do it out in the streets and at these rallies and amongst Democratic leaders. And we have to do it with members of the House that are going to be the front lines here. We're the only ones running. And so I'm working with our progressive caucus to make sure that the top issues that we are running on have an actual real contrast with the Republican Party on economics. We don't want to just seem Republican, light or mushy. Have a real stark contrast. Tax billionaires, not just block, they are billionaire tax cut, but increase taxes on billionaires and cut the cost of your childcare, cut the cost of your health care, raise your wages, expand Social Security. So have that real contrast. Have hopefully hundreds of Democrats campaigning on those economic issues and make it so that we are no longer defined by the Republican propaganda. The last thing I'll say on this is that I've started saying we need to have the construction site test to our policy agenda, which is, can we expect a guy working in the summer heat on the construction site to care about the policy issue that we're out there talking about? And if the answer is no, it's not really relevant to them, then we should probably cut it off of the top of our agenda. We were just talking about childcare in New York. If we are out there saying we're going to have childcare affordability because we're going to deliver money to your governors who can use it, and block grants to your municipality and you can get a voucher if you have ex dependents at an income of. At that point, people are like, screw this. This is more of the same political bs. We have to be out there, be clear. We have the ability as a country to say every single person, every single mom and dad, we're going to make sure your childcare doesn't cost more than 7% of what it is you make. I think that cuts through that passes the construction site test, definitely.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I mean, I love to hear those kinds of things. But as you're talking about what we can campaign on, I'm thinking about the frontline Dems that won their races by 1 or 2 percentage points. A lot of the Progressive Caucus members come from D + 30 districts, right?

[Greg Kassar]

Yes.

[Jessica Tarlev]

They can say whatever they want and get reelected. So what do you say to the Pat Ryans of the world, to the Tom Suozzis of the world about how your messaging can work in their kind of districts?

[Greg Kassar]

This is a change that we're making on the progressive side. We recognize that we cannot protect the most vulnerable people or move progressive forward if we don't win. And so we are prioritizing the parts of the progressive agenda which is anti corruption, you know, get big money out of politics, end stock trading by politicians, et cetera, anti corruption and broad based economic help for working people and recognizing working people's work. That actually pulls much better than the Democratic Party. It pulls much better than the sort of more traditional, moderate or Bill Clinton versions of that economic policy. And so if Democrats lean in where progressives are more popular, there's a lot that we can do there. We can win. People can campaign on that in progressive districts and frontline districts. It can excite traditional Democrats, bring in disaffected voters and bring over conservatives and independents. And you know, Congressman Ryan is the perfect example of this. Right. He is a vice chair of the New Democrats, the moderate caucus here on the Hill. But he campaigned against corruption. He campaigned on raising wages and union rights. And so, you know, the baseline economics is the glue that brings together our big tent. And you saw that with some success yesterday in the New York mayors race where you had Brad Lander and Zoran sort of cross endorsing. I think, of course that's not going to win in areas outside of New York City. Every different part of our country is going to be different in that way. But we're going to need more of that coalition work where we say, what is it that we agree on? Let's not start with the hottest button issue where we disagree. Let's go talk to our relatives and coworkers and friends who voted for Trump and say, are you a billionaire? Well, if you're not a billionaire, then you're getting screwed over right now on the biggest thing happening on the Hill. You're getting your money taken away to be handed to somebody that already has billions of dollars, who just wants millions more for God knows what.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I like the conciliatory tone and that there's no purity tests involved in any of this. Like, most important thing, get the numbers on the board because that's the only way that you can affect real change. So that's heartening to my little moderate soul.

[Greg Kassar]

Yeah.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I want to talk about the reconciliation bill. It's with the Senate now. They're going to make a bunch of changes. And I guess Senator Thune has told Mike Johnson that he's basically just got to deal with whatever they do on the Senate side. What do you think the prospects are for the bill passing? What do you think it's going to look like?

[Greg Kassar]

It's very hard to get into the heads of these sort of scared Republican puppet politicians. They aren't representing their own constituents. Right. Republican constituents hate the billionaire budget bill just as much as everybody else does. I mean, when you go and talk to an actual real human, not somebody that is a lobbyist here on Capitol Hill, they don't think that we should be cutting healthcare to give the richest people on earth a tax cut. So Republican members of Congress aren't voting with their constituents. And so then it becomes very hard to predict what they're going to do because they're just voting based on Trump's tweets, based on fear and money and reelection and all of the wrong sorts of motives. So that creates these crazy dynamics here on Capitol Hill, where people are saying, you know, they could implode on themselves, totally possible, or they could just ram this thing through, but probably seal their electoral fate. Now, Trump is talking about trying to go and redistrict states now at the last minute, you know, he's talking about redistricting Texas, redistricting Ohio, because he knows, and his political team knows that if they keep on marching down this road of passing this deeply unpopular bill, they're gonna have to try to go change the rules of the game to win the midterm elections. And so I. I'm very bad at predicting what folks will do when they're acting, frankly, so irrationally and that they're just sort of scared of the latest Trump tweet.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, that's. We'd all be a lot richer if we were able to predict what was actually going to happen. When Trump is involved in all of this, if we were betting on politics, I want to make sure that we talk about immigration a little bit. You are from a border state. There has been a lot of movement on the immigration issue. It was Donald Trump's best issue in his top polling right now. He's basically breaking even on it. And most polling, he's, you know, around minus 6 to minus 15 on it. The LA protests have not gone in his favor. Turns out people don't like the National Guard hanging around. But I don't feel like Democrats have been able to put forward, like in your economic terms, like a proactive vision for what our kind of immigration policy would look like.

[Greg Kassar]

So we need to be for legal and humane and thoughtful and safe and orderly immigration and reform. That hasn't happened my entire lifetime to achieve that kind of system. But first, I think the Democrats need to stop playing defense and sounding apologetic on immigration in this moment where Donald Trump is violating laws daily on this issue. So the Progressive Caucus, in sort of the view of doing things differently, has partnered with organizations on polling on this issue. And right now the overwhelming majority of voters do not agree with Trump's huge overreach on immigration. But what progressives need to learn is that we can't just talk about this as an immigrants rights issue. Cuz it's not just an immigrants rights issue. When Trump is deporting people against Trump Supreme Court orders, that's not just an immigration issue. That's an issue of the rights of everybody. Because if the President can arrest or disappear or deport someone and not listen to judges or the Supreme Court, that endangers the rights of everyone. In my state of Texas, Trump deported a 10 year old US citizen girl who is recovering from brain cancer, separating her from her doctor. That's offensive to people, regardless of whether you're in an immigration debate about what the ideal immigration system is to get to. So I think that we've got to, on the progressive side, learn to not just talk about this as an immigrants rights issue. It's an issue for US Citizens and the rights of everyone. And I think on the more sort of traditionally establishment side, I think people have to be less scared of the immigration issue and be willing to go and fight on the offense against what Trump is doing. Because we saw when now oversight ranking member Robert Garcia flew to El Salvador and when Senator Van Holland flew to El Salvador to highlight how Trump was violating U.S. supreme Court orders. Trump's numbers tanked on the immigration issue for days and days and days after that. And so I think we can't be scared of going on offense.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, it's also a big economic issue that you can weave in pretty seamlessly. The country does not work without frankly undocumented immigrant labor. How do you like going on Fox?

[Greg Kassar]

I really liked it. I had a lot of fun. You know, I'm trying to get back on. So if you can talk to somebody over there, I'll be back.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I probably know some people, you know.

[Greg Kassar]

They kept on trying to talk about Tesla, firebombings, and having, like, a burning Tesla next to my head. But I've, you know, let people know that Elon Musk was setting your money on fire or stealing it for himself. And I just think that the whole idea always made me uncomfortable of we're going to, you know, cancel members of Congress or progressives that go on Fox or go on conservative podcasts. Ridiculous, frankly. You know, shows like Joe Rogan's where, you know, Rogan endorsed Trump, but previously he had endorsed Bernie Sanders. So I think it's. We've got to go talk to everybody. I think we're in a moment where it is these billionaires versus everybody else, and our job is to go talk to everybody else.

[Jessica Tarlev]

I love it. So what's one thing that makes you rage and what's one thing that you think we should all calm down about?

[Greg Kassar]

So this is maybe light raging, but, you know, I've spent a good amount of time on this podcast talking about things progressives need to do differently and better. I think that for a lot of my moderate friends, one thing that I hope more moderates rage about is people trying to hijack the abundance stuff. There is a lot of good in thinking about having more abundant supply of housing. And Ezra Klein's book, he talks a lot about Austin. I was the zoning chair in Austin, and we did a lot of the increased housing supply work. And that's why we're building more affordable housing in Austin than anywhere else in America. But seeing this, I think they called it welcome Fest. I called it Walmart Fest because it was paid for by the Waltons. This big welcome Fest, Walmart Fest, moderate conference. We had speakers on stage saying that abundance is crushing unions and getting rid of the labor rules or the things that protect our clean air and clean water that don't get us what it is we need. Look, I think that that is a hijacking of what people are talking about here and trying to sort of drag the Democratic Party back into sort of the 1988, 1992 version of the Democratic Party. We can't let. I'm here as Progressive Caucus chair telling you there's definitely things progressives need to do better to increase our chances of winning swing voters. But we also can't let corporate influence and the cycle of money and donations water down our message or have us, you know, do things that I think, you know, from the policy perspective are wrong, but politically are also really stupid and hurt us, too. You know, I just don't think we should be out there campaigning in swing states with Mark Cuban. As our spokesperson or be, you know, pitching ideas that were handed to us by a Walmart lobbyist. I think that hurts us, too. So a little bit of rage there.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Okay. Calm down about anything or just high energy always.

[Greg Kassar]

No. Okay. One thing we can all chill out about. As you were talking about, you know, purity politics or whatever. As I was just thinking about, as we were talking about Elon, you know, AOC is saying the girls are fighting. When Musk and Trump were in their little online war. I feel like folks just need to chill out. There were some people criticizing her for saying that. I'm like, that's hilarious.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Yeah, that was a good one.

[Greg Kassar]

That's how normal people talk, you know?

[Jessica Tarlev]

Totally. I feel that often about criticisms of her. I'm like, no, this is the stuff I actually think we should criticize her about. This stuff is fine. And same where people yesterday were appalled that Trump said they don't know what the fuck they're doing about Iran and Israel. And I was like, that's why people like him, by the way, because he talks like that.

[Greg Kassar]

Yeah. And that might be one of the few true things that he's saying. And the thing that I'm offended or worried about is. Yeah. Like, are men and women in uniform getting killed by it? So, yeah, priorities, priorities.

[Jessica Tarlev]

Congressman Kassar, thank you so much for joining me.

[Greg Kassar]

Thanks, y' all.